Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Exercise / Bodybuilding => Topic started by: proteus on March 23, 2011, 02:14:59 pm
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my legs are definitely getting more proportionate as well with all the squats and deadlifts and such..they were like sticks even just this past spring.
Looking forward to being tanned and booking it bearfoot down a beach.
my calves never responded to anything i put them through in the gym, especially not to calf exercises. i did get some benefit for my calves from shrugs and deadlifts when used as stabilizer muscles - but never got any benefit from trying to hit calves directly.
i was 100% certain my calves were hopeless, but as soon as i tried running barefoot they got WASTED. i couldn't even walk.
same for abs - no amount of crunches etc got them sore ( some burning, but no real soreness ). but some good sprints running or a couple minutes worth of dolphin kicks in the pool and i am getting cramps in them.
moral of the story - real exercise is better than gym. it took me 15 years of working out in the gyms to figure this out. it's pretty embarrassing really - but better late than never.
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same for abs - no amount of crunches etc got them sore ( some burning, but no real soreness ). but some good sprints running or a couple minutes worth of dolphin kicks in the pool and i am getting cramps in them.
moral of the story - real exercise is better than gym. it took me 15 years of working out in the gyms to figure this out. it's pretty embarrassing really - but better late than never.
ah, the old natural vs 'artificial' debate.
its interesting because
- the cf guys will slam the 'bodybuilding' guys on their nautilus machines and isolated movements.
- the powerlifting guys will slam the cf guys because although they do powerlifts..they do too much other crap and too many reps
- the bodyweight guys will slam both those guys, saying bodyweight exercises can accommodate all the muscle groups particulary when scaled or weighted.
- the natural movement guys will slam all the other stuff, either saying theirs is best, or just the most natural, so therefore better.
ultimately the answer is that none are correct, if one feels 100% hardcore about any one of them.
If one wants to look like a bodybuilder, thats certainly just as feasible a goal as being a good golfer or something. You arn't going to get there just whacking sticks in the woods. Its a skill in addition to a movement. If you want to get stronger in some serious capacity, likely you are going to have to lift very heavy weights incrementally, so the bw and natural stuff is hard to fabricate in that way.
of course, I pick the cf/powerbuilding mix, as that makes sense to me, gives better results in comparison to years of bodyweight and oither kind of random bodybuilding. There is a strong emphasis there on natural movement, but obviously done with artificial circumstances and time periods that -if one times them right - will give better results then someone just hanging out in nature or working active lifting into their job or routine.
now, in the future, if I was very involved in my natural environment and being highly motivated to do the range of activities necessary that would trump the kinds of movements done in a room with a heavy barbell, I would probably do so. The trick there would be motivation to go out and deadlift rocks and drag heavy things and so on...which in a way becomes just as artificial to me, albeit perhaps a bit different weight distribution. Certainly many things can be seen as healthier when they are closer to nature and natural movement, but this isn't going to be the same as most effective for every goal.
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ah, the old natural vs 'artificial' debate.
its interesting because
- the cf guys will slam the 'bodybuilding' guys on their nautilus machines and isolated movements.
- the powerlifting guys will slam the cf guys because although they do powerlifts..they do too much other crap and too many reps
- the bodyweight guys will slam both those guys, saying bodyweight exercises can accommodate all the muscle groups particulary when scaled or weighted.
- the natural movement guys will slam all the other stuff, either saying theirs is best, or just the most natural, so therefore better.
ultimately the answer is that none are correct, if one feels 100% hardcore about any one of them.
If one wants to look like a bodybuilder, thats certainly just as feasible a goal as being a good golfer or something. You arn't going to get there just whacking sticks in the woods. Its a skill in addition to a movement. If you want to get stronger in some serious capacity, likely you are going to have to lift very heavy weights incrementally, so the bw and natural stuff is hard to fabricate in that way.
of course, I pick the cf/powerbuilding mix, as that makes sense to me, gives better results in comparison to years of bodyweight and oither kind of random bodybuilding. There is a strong emphasis there on natural movement, but obviously done with artificial circumstances and time periods that -if one times them right - will give better results then someone just hanging out in nature or working active lifting into their job or routine.
now, in the future, if I was very involved in my natural environment and being highly motivated to do the range of activities necessary that would trump the kinds of movements done in a room with a heavy barbell, I would probably do so. The trick there would be motivation to go out and deadlift rocks and drag heavy things and so on...which in a way becomes just as artificial to me, albeit perhaps a bit different weight distribution. Certainly many things can be seen as healthier when they are closer to nature and natural movement, but this isn't going to be the same as most effective for every goal.
wrong.
how do you know you're fit ? if you met another man in a natural environment how would you prove to him that you are more fit ? would you out-bench him ?
there are only so many possibilities here:
1 - you could beat the **** out of him ( martial arts )
2 - you could outrun him ( running )
3 - you could outswim him ( swimming )
4 - you could outclimb him ( hiking, climbing )
but you certainly couldn't use any WEIGHTS let alone MACHINES ( nautilus etc ) to do it.
now if your goal is to be proficient at running lets say you would have to be a complete retard to train for it by NOT running. same goes for the other 3 bullet points.
now since weights and machines aren't the proper way to prepare for any of those ... why do them at all ?
you think the pentagon can afford million dollar missiles and billion dollar stealth bombers but they couldn't afford a bunch of nautilus machines ? you think that's why they make marines run and swim all the time ?
NO
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dips are a garbage exercise by the way - my condolences to those of you who perform them.
chinup is the best exercise that you can do in the gym - they make you do chin ups in any army.
deadlift isn't bad, but you have to not go overboard with deadlifting. your leg workout must be about 90% running and 10% deadlifts, not more.
i was in the gym today. i had the same workout i always do ( when i am in the gym that is, which is about once a week ). first i ran on the treadmill ( it is raining outside ) for about half a mile at 9 mph. then i did some power cleans, some chin ups, some standing presses ( with dumbbells ) and some cable crossovers ( flys ) for chest.
i do cable crossover in place of push ups. push up of course is of course a staple exercise in the military ( along with running, swimming and chinups ) but between bench press, pushups and dips for me i always had best results with cable crossovers because unlike most people i actually know how to do them.
anyway i apologize for posting all this in the wrong thread - it just kinda happened this way.
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wrong.
how do you know you're fit ? if you met another man in a natural environment how would you prove to him that you are more fit ? would you out-bench him ?
you think the pentagon can afford million dollar missiles and billion dollar stealth bombers but they couldn't afford a bunch of nautilus machines ? you think that's why they make marines run and swim all the time ?
NO
dips are a garbage exercise by the way - my condolences to those of you who perform them.
chinup is the best exercise that you can do in the gym - they make you do chin ups in any army.
deadlift isn't bad, but you have to not go overboard with deadlifting. your leg workout must be about 90% running and 10% deadlifts, not more.
unlike most people i actually know how to do them.
hehe, ok man. so I see now you have the holy grail of working out that applies to everyone.
this idea that the situations of nature completely dictate our health decisions or exercises decisions just proves to be false over and over in regards to various factors for modern people. Its a big yawn to me, but can prove pretty destructive in other circumstances, so I point it out often.
You can't pick and choose what defines fitness. If one never lifts weights (speaking of a contemporary person and not a caveman) I'm pretty confident in saying they will never deadlift 900 lbs. Whether this has any usefulness or health benefits is a completely different conversation as people are free to have whatever goals they want. Your ratio of running to lifting I can also say quite confidently has little to do with meeting everyone's personal exercise goal, so the idea that it is a 'must' seems to throw you somewhere in my original breakdown of people who's 'mama's meatballs taste the best' program trumps all others by setting the very criteria for which it is judged.
As a general observation with some other posts. its better to try have a conversation then to throw down a bunch of definitive ideas when one is trying to learn. Particularly in this thread there are people doing all kinds of different routines to good success (at least in their impressions). Theres a difference between suggesting certain routines as being more efficient or healthier long term..and suggesting other things are 'garbage'.
People in the military are not bodybuilders or strength trainers or even the best MMA guys, so I'm not sure what this means and again their training is likely tailored to the type of fitness they want..which probably includes endurance as a major component. Some people care less about such things, again its just a matter of preference. For the average person in this day and age, the need to deadlift a huge piece of concrete off a friend seems just as likely as needing to ever run away or fight somebody.
Theres a bunch of rangers that go to my cf gym. These particular guys say the training there is far superior to their military training, and although they are pretty dam impressive physically, they arn't necessarily the best competitors. Now the powerlifters as I say will say this is all shit..and the bodyweight guys and so on....:)
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People in the military are not bodybuilders or strength trainers or even the best MMA guys, so I'm not sure what this means
military men are the modern day hunter-gatherers. a hunter-gatherer must primarily be able to walk large distances and occasionally sprint, climb and fight. a soldier is trained to do all that. an MMA fighter is only trained to fight, and a powerlifter isn't trained to do ANY of those things.
For the average person in this day and age, the need to deadlift a huge piece of concrete off a friend seems just as likely as needing to ever run away or fight somebody.
nobody needs to lift concrete blocks but everybody needs to run sometimes, and most men have needed to fight at some point in their life.
i will grant you this - sometimes you need to carry another human - and this will be a challenge to somebody who doesn't have lifting as part of his routine. one ( 1 ) time we had to carry a girl a hundred yards or two from the beach where we got drunk to where the car was parked. it started to get pretty difficult by the time we got to the car even though she was on the smaller side of average. i carried her about 80% of the way and her boyfriend the other 20% to give me some rest.
on several occasions i was moving furniture ( either my own or helping somebody ) that involved some physical exertion. but i didn't HAVE to do it. i could have said i was busy and not come to help, or when it was my own furniture i could have paid some movers to do it for me.
on the other hand when you have to run or fight you rarely have such luxury of delegating the business to somebody else.
you know that strongman competition event when they have to carry a rock some distance ? i think if you replaced that rock with a 150 pound bag of sand that would be EXCELLENT exercise to simulate carrying a human body. i would do it regularly if my gym was equipped for that, but i go to a regular gym.
that said my gym is overpriced ( new york sports clubs ) and i rarely go there and i don't use 90% of their equipment so maybe i could try some of that crossfit stuff instead ? is there any in Brooklyn ?
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dips are a garbage exercise by the way - my condolences to those of you who perform them.
chinup is the best exercise that you can do in the gym - they make you do chin ups in any army.
deadlift isn't bad, but you have to not go overboard with deadlifting. your leg workout must be about 90% running and 10% deadlifts, not more.
i was in the gym today. i had the same workout i always do ( when i am in the gym that is, which is about once a week ). first i ran on the treadmill ( it is raining outside ) for about half a mile at 9 mph. then i did some power cleans, some chin ups, some standing presses ( with dumbbells ) and some cable crossovers ( flys ) for chest.
i do cable crossover in place of push ups. push up of course is of course a staple exercise in the military ( along with running, swimming and chinups ) but between bench press, pushups and dips for me i always had best results with cable crossovers because unlike most people i actually know how to do them.
anyway i apologize for posting all this in the wrong thread - it just kinda happened this way.
You are just rudely giving us your conjecture with no scientific evidence to back up anything you say. You're doing bodybuilder chest flyes and talking shit on dips? I must say I agree with a lot of your points. Specifically your strong love for chin ups, but hold the personal views on exercises. If somebody wants to be a bodybuilder on this forum, who the hell cares? This is just us logging our workout information. I basically use this as a journal.
I am digressing, but anyway I agree that military training is some of the best functional training that can be done and very useful. However, military training is not necessarily the best training and is not based on science. The common man would not want to participate in military training in full extent and if you do I commend you. Reason being is that the catabolic hormone cortisol is drammatically risen with all that excessive training and lowers male androgens (opposite of what you want). How many times have you seen a muscular guy come back from boot camp scrawny? I've seen this plenty of times in my life, and sure it may be as a result of functional training, but is it really optimal, is it really healthy to lose your muscle mass and sex drive as a result of excess cortisol levels?
Don't talk shit on dips unless you know what you are talking about. In physiology it was proven by scientists that you only need 2 exercises to work the entire body. Chin ups with shoulder width grip was the first, which works 70% and dips was the other, which works the other 30%. If you do those 2 exercises, you will work your whole torso.
How can you talk smack on dips and not even realize their absolutely applicable functionality? Think about it, if you are in somebody else's guard (in jiu jitsu or in real life) you can easily do a guard pass with the help of dip strength. Doing heavy weighted dips helped me pass people's guard with ease in my jiu jitsu classes, and that is absolutely functional.
As long as everybody works the two largest muscle groups (legs and back) you'll be okay.
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military men are the modern day hunter-gatherers. a hunter-gatherer must primarily be able to walk large distances and occasionally sprint, climb and fight. a soldier is trained to do all that. an MMA fighter is only trained to fight, and a powerlifter isn't trained to do ANY of those things.
nobody needs to lift concrete blocks but everybody needs to run sometimes, and most men have needed to fight at some point in their life.
you know that strongman competition event when they have to carry a rock some distance ? i think if you replaced that rock with a 150 pound bag of sand that would be EXCELLENT exercise to simulate carrying a human body. i would do it regularly if my gym was equipped for that, but i go to a regular gym.
that said my gym is overpriced ( new york sports clubs ) and i rarely go there and i don't use 90% of their equipment so maybe i could try some of that crossfit stuff instead ? is there any in Brooklyn ?
there is a few cross-fit places in Brooklyn I have scoped out. One is over in Williamsburg and a few others near downtown I think. cross-fit is pretty overpriced as well unfortunately.
The point is there is no standard of what is right for individual goals even if some things can be basically 'proven' to probably yield better results, or perhaps are safer. Like diet there is plenty of 'science' that will tell you this or that is bad in exercise. In many ways, alot of the 'paleo' crowd actually comes down pretty hard on running as opposed to true strength training. That is sort of take it or leave it stuff. but some of the things you mention just happen to not be right in any sense. People that train for speed for running DON'T actually just run or likely even 90, 80, 70 % of their routine is running. Odds are many of the people train for better of worse with leg press and other 'modern' exercises. Even if one isn't doing modern exercises, if they want serious results they are going to have to do artificial things like do the same thing over and over in a set period of time. I've mentioned in this thread or elsewhere about folks like Bode Miller who is pretty conscious about natural movements stuff, and to accomplish this..he actually builds his own 'machines' to do some pretty freakish stuff that has very little to do with cave activities - or skiing.
Strongmen as with military guys will lift weights and will do alot of the sandbag and sleds and other weird stuff. They have those at cf. The thing is, why wouldn't the elite ranger guys be the absolute most fit people at the gym if they are uniquely there to begin with compared to their unit to improve on their workouts..doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Turns out the most fit people there are the people that do it pretty religiously, same as the people who are really specific about bodybuilding generally will have the best builds even over the strength guys or cross-fit guys or yoga guys or paleo guys who mock them.
Running happens to be pointless to me. I consider that to be an opinion based on a few 'facts' and experience. When I don't run and do something condensed like box jumps and jump rope, I raise my heart rate just as easily or more so in less time and my running goes up without any practice at all. I can whip through 1 k runs and stuff where I could hardly finish before at a brisk pace. If I could run 10 miles in 1 hour, without strain on energy, it might be somewhat useful in terms of getting around town, but until then a bicycle trumps any kind of running needs I might have and requires no other energy and probably less strain (arguably) on the joints and so forth. Many things can be improved with technologies, it just so happens that most technologies are misused. I happen to find most machines to be unnecessary at this point, but then again i'm not a bodybuilder.
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1 - you could beat the **** out of him ( martial arts )
2 - you could outrun him ( running )
3 - you could outswim him ( swimming )
4 - you could outclimb him ( hiking, climbing )
but you certainly couldn't use any WEIGHTS let alone MACHINES ( nautilus etc ) to do it.
I think I missed the part where you said that you absolutely need strength and muscle mass to be proficient in any of the above mentioned. The stronger, bigger martial artist is the better martial artist. The stronger climber is the better climber, etc... And so you think strength training and increasing muscle mass plays no part in kicking someones ass or climbing a mountain? I have personal experience in this because I always get my ass kicked by brown belts in jiu jitsu, until a weak, scrawny brown belt went against me, and I annhialated him. I am only a white belt and this guy was almost my weight, but weak and scrawny and I out "strengthed" him in every situation as a result of years of lifting. This strength is not applicable to real life?
We're not talking about using weights or machines in real life, where did you get that notion? Weights and good eating are always going to be the best way to increase muscle mass, period.
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How many times have you seen a muscular guy come back from boot camp scrawny?
that is true. a bodybuilder friend of mine came back at 125 pounds.
but that's because military training is not intended to get you into shape so much as to make you drop out of the program altogether. they overtrain people like crazy and give them little to no food, rest or sleep - what did you expect ?
a bodybuilder must eat and sleep all day, and only do some light exercise to get a pump.
personally i mix up different philosophies both in training and nutrition.
Don't talk shit on dips unless you know what you are talking about. In physiology it was proven by scientists that you only need 2 exercises to work the entire body. Chin ups with shoulder width grip was the first, which works 70% and dips was the other, which works the other 30%. If you do those 2 exercises, you will work your whole torso.
How can you talk smack on dips and not even realize their absolutely applicable functionality? Think about it, if you are in somebody else's guard (in jiu jitsu or in real life) you can easily do a guard pass with the help of dip strength. Doing heavy weighted dips helped me pass people's guard with ease in my jiu jitsu classes, and that is absolutely functional.
the range of motion is wrong. just because it hits the right muscles doesn't mean it takes them through the right range of motion. you don't get full contraction ( in chest and shoulders ) on the top and you overstretch ( risking injury ) on the bottom. with cables i can adjust the range of motion until its just right depending on how i do them.
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I think I missed the part where you said that you absolutely need strength and muscle mass to be proficient in any of the above mentioned. The stronger, bigger martial artist is the better martial artist. The stronger climber is the better climber, etc... And so you think strength training and increasing muscle mass plays no part in kicking someones ass or climbing a mountain? I have personal experience in this because I always get my ass kicked by brown belts in jiu jitsu, until a weak, scrawny brown belt went against me, and I annhialated him. I am only a white belt and this guy was almost my weight, but weak and scrawny and I out "strengthed" him in every situation as a result of years of lifting. This strength is not applicable to real life?
We're not talking about using weights or machines in real life, where did you get that notion? Weights and good eating are always going to be the best way to increase muscle mass, period.
if you're not getting enough strength training for jiu jitsu from just doing jiu jitsu that means your jiu jitsu training is not sufficiently intelligent. same for a runner who does leg presses or a swimmer who does chin ups.
i get ALL the training i need for swimming BY swimming. i get ALL the training i need for running BY running. i do this by varying intensity and rest periods.
to be fair for an "intelligent" jiu jitsu training you would need an intelligent partner(s) which may be beyond your control. this is why i do "solo" sports.
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why wouldn't the elite ranger guys be the absolute most fit people at the gym
matter of economics. the army doesn't care if a soldier lives or dies, let alone if he achieves his full potential. their goal is to get a certain number of bodies that meet a certain performance threshold. to do this they know they have to recruit a certain number of young people and then weed out a certain percentage of them in the boot camp. people are expendable to them - they aren't going to waste their time to nurture your talents.
a champion athlete is a result of 10 years of consistent and optimal training. optimal means personal supervision of a professional who can use his experience and scientific knowledge to prevent you from overtraining and order to you to stop training sometimes even as you want to train harder. for example Ronnie Coleman's trainer forced him to cut the amount of cardio he did in half.
this doesn't happen in the army. in the army they just want to see how hard they can overtrain people until half of them drop out altogether. they are not interested in letting your body recover at all - they just want to break it.
but the exercises they use to break you are very legit exercises. they need to break you in a relevant way because they are specifically interested in your ability to accomplish the mission - not in your ability to impress girls on the beach or other juiceheads by the squat rack.
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the range of motion is wrong. just because it hits the right muscles doesn't mean it takes them through the right range of motion. you don't get full contraction ( in chest and shoulders ) on the top and you overstretch ( risking injury ) on the bottom. with cables i can adjust the range of motion until its just right depending on how i do them.
I def agree with you that some of the range of motion is wrong in dips, but that is why intelligent people do them correctly. Only go down to where the back of your triceps are parallel with the floor and you wont risk injury. I think dips is a great exercise, but def not the best.
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150 calf raises
calf raises are a waste of time. they don't even hit calves half as hard as other gym type exercises like heavy shrugs or stiff leg deadlifts.
the proper way to train calves is to run barefoot. you don't have to literally be barefoot - i use nike free sneakers. by barefoot i mean that you run without your heel touching the ground - the way animals and professional sprinters run.
what did you think you calf is for ? its for running HELOOOOOO *waves*
the calf can either be trained by ECCENTRIC contraction which occurs ONLY when you run ( and i mean RUN, not jog ). or they can be trained by continuous overload ( hours at a time ) like hiking some mountains for the entire day for example. you can't build calves in the gym - not possible. this is my own theory but i know i am right.
calf training 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21rkesYI8Co
calf training 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUJhnEmx8Do
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the calf can either be trained by ECCENTRIC contraction which occurs ONLY when you run ( and i mean RUN, not jog ). or they can be trained by continuous overload ( hours at a time ) like hiking some mountains for the entire day for example. you can't build calves in the gym - not possible. this is my own theory but i know i am right.
You are absolutely right. Unless you are a bodybuilder taking steroids, but even then they still do a lot of incline treadmill walking. My favorite calf work is anything done barefoot. Primarily sprinting and walking barefoot up hills.
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the proper way to train calves is to run barefoot. you don't have to literally be barefoot - i use nike free sneakers. by barefoot i mean that you run without your heel touching the ground - the way animals and professional sprinters run.
lolwtf. We don't have hooves or paws, we have feet. Animals which have hooves or paws, their heel 1 3rd the way up their leg... When Humans run barefoot, their heel touches the ground...
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When Humans run barefoot, their heel touches the ground...
speak for yourself ;)
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speak for yourself ;)
Ok. I was, talking for myself as well as anyone I've heard of before you.
So, why do you not put your heel to the ground?
Have you ever ran actually barefoot? Running in Nikes isn't running barefoot..
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Ok. I was, talking for myself as well as anyone I've heard of before you.
well then you have been living under a rock ...
when marion jones was asked how she did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx_-DpRDwIs
she said " i never let my heels touch the ground " ...
of course she was lying. the real reason was she was doing steroids. but that doesn't change the fact that the only way to run fast is to not let your heels touch the ground. i posted the slow motion video of Usain Bolt for a reason - so that you can see for yourself that his heels do not touch the ground either.
So, why do you not put your heel to the ground?
because i don't like to suck.
you know the tip of the whip exceeds the speed of sound, which gives it the characteristic cracking sound of sonic boom. if you run on the tip of your leg you use the full speed your leg is designed for, just as with the whip. if you run on your heel you are doomed to be slow. imagine if you had to throw a baseball not with your fingers but with the palm of your hand - do you think it would be very fast ?
of course this is an oversimplification. in reality you gain an even bigger advantage. exactly why would be difficult to explain - but easy to feel when you try it.
just make sure when you try it you either run barefoot or with proper shoes ( not regular running shoes ) and don't run very fast or for more than about half a minute the first time or you will end up hurt.
try running like this ( at this speed ) at first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgIUE8BPw-c
can you tell how effortless it is ? he isn't mashing the ground with his heels - he is essentially just floating in the air - which is how its supposed to be.
consider this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHcu9B1jw4
its all about the spring action. a guy with amputated legs would probably outrun you because he would be using spring action and you wouldn't be. when you run properly ( like usain bolt ) you use your calf as a spring. once you learn to do it right it looks comical to see people running the dumb way - they just look like a bunch of retards.
Have you ever ran actually barefoot? Running in Nikes isn't running barefoot..
no i haven't. nike free is designed to simulate barefoot running - they are very light and flexible - probably lighter than vibram five fingers. to me these shoes are perfect - i am not tempted to switch to either vibram or to actually running barefoot. the point is nike free are designed to NOT provide any kind of "support" or "cushioning" that most other sneakers such as nike air are designed to provide. basically you need to match shoes to your foot and your running style.
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nike free are designed to NOT provide any kind of "support" or "cushioning
(http://www.runnersblog.co.uk/images/free4big.jpg)
^^ Nike Free
Quote from: miles on Today at 09:56:26 am
So, why do you not put your heel to the ground?
because i don't like to suck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j9JtpSbPNg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pp1bcSC__k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGSjpUIGbZs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jrnj-7YKZE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0jf_2nhktE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8AdnwZB8Ww&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzjDIAKUZ9Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRZvlQTTCMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgIUE8BPw-c&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwbzpyterI
^^ Hey man, their heels all touch the ground, they must suck balls right?
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^^ Hey man, their heels all touch the ground, they must suck balls right?
some of them suck. the others who don't suck don't really touch. with reference to the video you posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jrnj-7YKZE&feature=player_embedded
that touch sensitive surface video shows that with a barefoot runner there is massive pressure on the forefoot and just barely a momentary kiss on the heel.
i told you it was all about the spring action. what force curve do you think a spring would plot out if the amputated guy ran in that lab ? it would plot out a symmetrical bell curve just as the barefoot runner plotted out. this is the proper way to run and the way you achieve this spring-like behavior is by using mostly your calf as a spring.
if you don't use the calf and land on the heel you create that ugly spike which doesn't represent spring-like behavior. you can think of that initial spike as energy loss. the bell curve of a spring represents recycling of energy and the spike energy loss - the ERROR in your technique.
now since i am a perfectionist i don't touch with my heel at all, and neither does usain bolt in an all-out sprint wearing sprinter's shoes. check it out:
http://www.shoeguide.co.uk/media/main/nike_zoom_aerofly.jpg
can you tell this shoe is not designed to make heel contact ? check out the huge spikes on the forefoot and basically nothing on the heel.
but if you are running long distance your calf will be tired and you may compromise a bit by touching lightly with your heel but still landing forefoot. its not a yes or no thing - it is gradual. the better your technique, the more power your calves have and the faster you are running the more your weight is going to shift from the heel to the forefoot. obviously when usain bolt is walking he does it using his heels. but if he tried using his heels while running sub 10 second he'd break his legs.
it's difficult to avoid touching your heel if you are not running fast - that's why i don't run slow any more. you need a certain speed to get a nice natural bounciness to your stride. with my super-cushy nike air max 2010 shoes:
http://www.anpshoes.com/NewImage/2010/images/Boy%20Children%20Nike%20Air%20Max%202010%20Running%20Shoes%20(12).jpg
i can run anywhere from medium speed to very slow, and can walk very comfortably, but i can't run very fast in them. on the other hand with my nike free 3.0 shoes:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pEADhcSTYTU/S_34N5eyY4I/AAAAAAAAC0Q/kWc1HgEHfVQ/s400/Nike+Fee+3.0.JPG
i can run anywhere from medium to fast, but i can't run slow, and they aren't comfortable for walking.
fast forward the following video to 4.00 minute mark for slow motion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0vRSuqMJlg
i like how when he runs you can't even tell that he makes contact with the ground at all. looks more like he is pedaling in continuous circles mid-air than running. you need to have this kind of smooth flow for maximum efficiency, and you simply can NOT have it if you smash your heels into the ground.
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miles i just remembered that i have flat feet. that kenyan runner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j9JtpSbPNg&feature=player_embedded
probably has a different kind of foot than i do. i would never be able to run the way he does. it is painful for me to even walk in a normal way unless i am wearing air max sneakers. but i run relatively effortlessly when i don't touch my heel.
so i guess if you have a lot of springiness in the arch of your foot ( i have zero ) you could have a corresponding amount of heel contact and still maintain overall spring-like mechanics.
can also be a function of habit. if you consciously focus on running a certain way it may become natural to you and vice versa. maybe my foot is flat BECAUSE i have been wearing sneakers most of my life. i have only started running properly a few months ago.
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I think you should go practise running rather than lecturing on it when you can barely do it yourself... You seem to be much more confident in yourself than you have any cause to be.
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I think you should go practise running rather than lecturing on it when you can barely do it yourself... You seem to be much more confident in yourself than you have any cause to be.
i used to run when i was 16 - 20 or so - the retarded way. then i got overweight and stopped. then last year i lost enough weight to start running again. at first i started to run the way i always used to but i started to get shin splints really bad - so bad i couldn't run. i asked myself then why was i getting them ? and then i realized its because i use heel strike. i then switched to forefoot gradually over the course of 2 or 3 months ( that was too fast, i should have taken a year or more to switch ) and i like it MUCH more this way.
my mistake was to switch the style too quickly. that lead to unnecessary injuries. the other mistake was waiting till i was almost 30 to start running correctly - obviously harder to start essentially from scratch at that age.
as for your diatribe i will do both - i will keep practicing and keep lecturing. and you - where are your legs in the picture ? is it because you're such an expert on running that you can't show them ? :) and what about your back ? you don't seem to have any. have you ever tried doing chin ups lol ? or do you exercise with dumbbells like a girl ?
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250 sit-ups
sit ups and crunches are a waste of time for people who get their training advice from infomercials. i used to do hundreds when i was 10 years old. haven't done any in many years and never will again.
paleos didn't do none of that BS.
here are the abs you get from sprinting:
http://www.whudat.com/news/images/marion-jones-ripped-abs.jpg
and here are the abs you get from swimming butterfly:
http://mystuffspace.com/graphic/michael-phelps-abs.jpg
and here are the abs you get from situps and crunches:
http://gymidiots.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/fat_sit_ups.gif
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olympic lifting is also very good for abs ( 10 times better than situps or crunches ), but it's not paleo so i don't insist you do it.
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I really wish that people were using this post for workout log purposes only. Can you two please argue about running somewhere else or create a post for that?
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I really wish that people were using this post for workout log purposes only. Can you two please argue about running somewhere else or create a post for that?
Can a mod move the inappropriate posts into a new thread?
its all about the spring action. ... when you run properly ( like usain bolt ) you use your calf as a spring.
The tendons/ligaments are elastic bands, not springs, and elastic bands hold more energy the more they are stretched. The less energy is provided by the elastic band, the more has to be provided by the muscle. Relaxing the calf also allows the blood to flow in better.
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yes mods please move us to another thread.
The tendons/ligaments are elastic bands, not springs, and elastic bands hold more energy the more they are stretched. The less energy is provided by the elastic band, the more has to be provided by the muscle. Relaxing the calf also allows the blood to flow in better.
this achilles tendon spring can only work if your heel is not on the ground ;)
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yes mods please move us to another thread.
this achilles tendon spring can only work if your heel is not on the ground ;)
That makes no sense.
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Figured I'd start this thread so everyone can argue about what is the BEST work-out and what exercises suck or are a waste of time. You know, so we don't clog up the "Today's Work-out" thread with arguments about each others' work-outs.
Does that work for everyone?
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Seriously....if we can all take the arguments about which workouts suck and which don't to the thread below, we can use this thread simply as a log of workouts to share what we ARE doing rather than arguing about what we OUGHT to be doing.
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/the-best-work-out!!!/
Thanx in advance!
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And in that spirit....I don't find calf raises or push-ups or sit-ups to be a waste of time.
If you think they are a waste of time, my advice to you is simple: Don't do them.
Presumably you've come to the conclusion that certain exercises don't work through personal experience, which has not taught you what exercises are effective at all - only what exercise are and are not effective for you. So take that wisdom and use it to your advantage.
I'm all about sharing info, but making broad sweeping statements about the effectiveness of tried & true exercises with zero evidence to support one's assertions, and only a "I have no proof, but I know that I am right" is a bit, well....hasty.
Just my 2 cents, of course.
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LOLOLOLOL....
Do your endurance routine and have fun dude..
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LOLOLOLOL....
Do your endurance routine and have fun dude..
Oh, yeah - I have a blast, man. Thanx!
I'm just responding to the rush of "you're wasting your time because (insert offensive exercise here) sucks. Do THIS instead, because it's soooo much better" stuff that was starting to clog up the other thread.
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Topic is split. ;)
Play nice with each other. :P
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Oh, yeah - I have a blast, man. Thanx!
I'm just responding to the rush of "you're wasting your time because (insert offensive exercise here) sucks. Do THIS instead, because it's soooo much better" stuff that was starting to clog up the other thread.
fuck them all its your body your mind
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check this out:
http://gulfnews.com/gntv/news/frenchman-climbs-burj-khalifa-1.784902
6.5 hours. good workout. not as hardcore or paleo as sit-ups of course ...
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That makes no sense.
can you be more specific ?
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Does anybody else like that RAW type of workout when you run barefoot through the woods stepping on prickers, sticks, rocks and in mud/dirt and get all dirty. Jumping over logs and climbing vines and shit. Straight up primal workout. I did one of these for the first time the other day and felt like a new man. My feet hurt from prickers and stepping on rocks, but not in a bad way. I felt tougher physically and mentally. Its cool not worrying about running through prickers and just letting yourself get cut up. That really makes me laugh at all the people who avoid prickers at all costs. I digress, anyway, this is a sick workout and its nice to get some fresh air and get all dirty outside once in a while.
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Does anybody else like that RAW type of workout when you run barefoot through the woods stepping on prickers, sticks, rocks and in mud/dirt and get all dirty. Jumping over logs and climbing vines and shit. Straight up primal workout. I did one of these for the first time the other day and felt like a new man. My feet hurt from prickers and stepping on rocks, but not in a bad way. I felt tougher physically and mentally. Its cool not worrying about running through prickers and just letting yourself get cut up. That really makes me laugh at all the people who avoid prickers at all costs. I digress, anyway, this is a sick workout and its nice to get some fresh air and get all dirty outside once in a while.
why not wear something like vibram five fingers ?
i run on pavement for practical reasons - because if i ever have to run in real life it is likely to be on pavement.
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Does anybody else like that RAW type of workout when you run barefoot through the woods stepping on prickers, sticks, rocks and in mud/dirt and get all dirty....this is a sick workout and its nice to get some fresh air and get all dirty outside once in a while.
Hell yeah!
I love that sort of thing. Back in October, we got to go 2 weekends and hack our way thru a dense wooded area - machetes swinging, stomping around, throwing big logs off the make-shift trail we were clearing. It was a BLAST! The others were out there in sweaters and boot, but me in shorts (no shirt, no shoes,). BIG fun!
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why not wear something like vibram five fingers ?
i run on pavement for practical reasons - because if i ever have to run in real life it is likely to be on pavement.
Sometimes I do sometimes I dont, depends on how Im feeling. I like to do the barefoot thing sometimes to toughen up my feet more than vibrams would.
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Swimming in cold water or better yet surfing in cold water :)
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Pioneer - yeah, I love doing the barefoot thing!
Cliff - swimming rocks!
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what do you think of benching?
i started benching when i was 12 years old or so. and i haven't done it even once in the past two years or so.
i think benching and dips are about equal - they have some cons and pros. i prefer cable crossovers for chest exercise and standing presses for shoulders. actually you get quite a bit of a chest workout from just chins/pullups. i also get chest workout from swimming.
bench press is of course easily THE most overrated exercise. the reason everyone does it is two fold:
1 - it looks hardcore so its good as a mental masturbation
2 - it builds muscles closest to your face which is most important for people who spend their whole day looking in the mirror as most pretty boy bodybuilders do, so again - more masturbation
but of course to put bench press at the center of your training as most gym rats do - is misguided
the reason i don't do it AT ALL is because it relies on a BACK SUPPORT and i don't use ANY SUPPORTS on any exercises - and this includes no belt and no straps. any support is a means of isolation which in a bodybuilders mind is a good thing - but in my mind is a source of weakness.
i used to be a HUGE fan of using staps back when i was into deadlifting and especially shrugging. i couldn't hold as much weight in my hands as i could lift with my legs/lower back. so i figured straps were allowing me to get a better workout - i was wrong. straps were allowing me to get a workout i didn't need. instead of deadlifting to build leg power i should have been running sprints. instead of developing functional leg power i ended up developing nonfunctional power. you only cheat yourself with any form of isolation training IMO.
you don't necessarily need to develop every muscle to its fullest potential - thats not a good goal even for a bodybuilder - and a very bad goal for a real athlete. what you want is to develop your body as a machine that works as one. if having a huge chest isn't making you run or swim or climb better - then you don't need a huge chest. and if it does make you perform those tasks better - then you can build it up BY using those kinds of training.
when i used to be rather big i couldn't understand why i can barely keep up with girls in the swimming pool who are good swimmers. my muscles were 5 times their size and i had fairly decent technique so i was supposed to be much faster ? of course now i realize that they had the RIGHT muscles for swimming because they developed them BY swimming and i had the WRONG muscles for swimming because i developed them by benching. and it was the same story with running and cycling. being able to deadlift a couple hundred pounds did NOT make me any faster a runner or a cyclist - it was a total ripoff. i put that stupidity behind me now.
i am tempted to say that i find bench press to be a worse than average exercise but it must be qualified. it is certainly worse than an exercise average out of the ones i currently do. but other people may do exercises far worse such as curls and crunches so for them it may be a very good exercise relative to what they do on average in the gym.
the good thing about bench press is that its a more or less free-weight exercise and one that allows a lot of weight to be used. generally the more weight is being used the you are activating your body. the bad things are:
1 - the back support, which is totally unnatural
2 - just as with dips the range of motion is not optimal.
i had a friend with a torn pec from benching. he never recovered from it - he has a hole in his chest. chest is a relatively small muscle in a symmetrically developed physique. people try to make it into a second ass and pay the price.
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seeing as i seem to be saying every gym exercise is crap i thought for the sake of clarity i will mention some that i think are NOT crap:
* bent over barbell row
* power clean
* standing press
* lunges ( although frankly i never did them, but they make sense )
also for any exercise that can be performed unilaterally ( one side at a time ) you should occasionally do it that way. for example you should sometimes row with just one hand ( but don't assume you can handle half the weight you do with both hands - as it becomes a completely different exercise - so start from a safe low weight ).
* one of my favorite gym exercises is something i have never seen anybody do except me. it is a unilateral pull down. if you were climbing a mountain you would essentially be doing chin ups unilaterally - one hand at a time.
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seeing as i seem to be saying every gym exercise is crap i thought for the sake of clarity i will mention some that i think are NOT crap:
* bent over barbell row
* power clean
* standing press
* lunges ( although frankly i never did them, but they make sense )
also for any exercise that can be performed unilaterally ( one side at a time ) you should occasionally do it that way. for example you should sometimes row with just one hand ( but don't assume you can handle half the weight you do with both hands - as it becomes a completely different exercise - so start from a safe low weight ).
* one of my favorite gym exercises is something i have never seen anybody do except me. it is a unilateral pull down. if you were climbing a mountain you would essentially be doing chin ups unilaterally - one hand at a time.
You dont think squats and deads are functional???
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if you were climbing a mountain you would essentially be doing chin ups unilaterally - one hand at a time.
If you were climbing a mountain you're be doing pull-ups, not chin ups.
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you know, we had another guy similar to you who had been all drugged up and had learned all the dark secrets of bodybuilding
and how everyone now had to do bike sprints or whatever.
you are still missing or fudging some fundamental things
for one, you can do bench press one day a week for 10 minutes and have better results than hours of swimming.
swimming is a refinement exercise. If you want a body like Iggy Pop, you swim in the ocean. Thats what he did, and it works. However it happens to be a tremendous amount of effort, time and energy that most people cannot afford. swimming in a pool is probably the most diametrically opposite thing to healthful exercise I can possibly think of, so it doesn't even possibly qualify as a healthy substitute for anything - including nautilus machines - as there is only negative net health there.
all these other things similarly you are massively trading efficiency (power-lifting) for time and energy, which also means added calories. I personally do not have these to spare, therefore anything other than short spurts of speed and cardio worked into full body exercises like box jumping, lateral jumps, lunges and jump roping have any use for me.
This idea that being able to swim or run is somehow useful skills is just totally subjective.
My statistical guess is .05999 percent of people I have ever met....scratch that:looked in the eye have ever needed to swim, run, or fight for their life. 99.999999% of people that are involved in running, bodybuilding, crossfit, powerlifting are just trying to get the type of body that they find is ideal and to hopefully also increase their overall health.
So while essentially everything you happen to now prize as the highest echelons of 'paleo' health I see as useless, I do gauge that many people even on this site could not lift my Slankers order (60 lbs) up to my third floor apartment. To me this is something useful, as with similar uses of basic lifting augmented by strength training exercise.
Back to bench, you can get excellent results just doing burpees and dips but they don't yield the same specific result, so therefore there is 0 critical argument there, making the only plausible argument one of safety.
if you are lifting weights, its probably a safer bet to focus on functional strength rather than isolated exercises. This is pretty much the only 'truth' I can see. as for benching..virtually every member of Iron Addicts does bench press, and these guys are all competitive strength trainers and not bodybuilders. Some of these guys are in their 50's and 60's. Years not doing bench did nothing positive for me and had the obvious result.
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the other things is this is a health forum thats unlike others in the sense that it promotes a diet which proves particularly cataboliizing for most folks (by this I mean muscle built from old materials, not muscle built on the diet.) making much of this irrelevant anyway.
Its possible you've radically re-examined your past errors or whatever but if you are interested in truly learning in clearing out old drugs, tissues, and then re-building muscles on a raw diet, perhaps you are still somewhat oversimplifying things.
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you know, we had another guy similar to you who had been all drugged up and had learned all the dark secrets of bodybuilding
and how everyone now had to do bike sprints or whatever.
you are still missing or fudging some fundamental things
for one, you can do bench press one day a week for 10 minutes and have better results than hours of swimming.
swimming is a refinement exercise. If you want a body like Iggy Pop, you swim in the ocean. Thats what he did, and it works. However it happens to be a tremendous amount of effort, time and energy that most people cannot afford. swimming in a pool is probably the most diametrically opposite thing to healthful exercise I can possibly think of, so it doesn't even possibly qualify as a healthy substitute for anything - including nautilus machines - as there is only negative net health there.
all these other things similarly you are massively trading efficiency (power-lifting) for time and energy, which also means added calories. I personally do not have these to spare, therefore anything other than short spurts of speed and cardio worked into full body exercises like box jumping, lateral jumps, lunges and jump roping have any use for me.
This idea that being able to swim or run is somehow useful skills is just totally subjective.
My statistical guess is .05999 percent of people I have ever met....scratch that:looked in the eye have ever needed to swim, run, or fight for their life. 99.999999% of people that are involved in running, bodybuilding, crossfit, powerlifting are just trying to get the type of body that they find is ideal and to hopefully also increase their overall health.
So while essentially everything you happen to now prize as the highest echelons of 'paleo' health I see as useless, I do gauge that many people even on this site could not lift my Slankers order (60 lbs) up to my third floor apartment. To me this is something useful, as with similar uses of basic lifting augmented by strength training exercise.
Back to bench, you can get excellent results just doing burpees and dips but they don't yield the same specific result, so therefore there is 0 critical argument there, making the only plausible argument one of safety.
if you are lifting weights, its probably a safer bet to focus on functional strength rather than isolated exercises. This is pretty much the only 'truth' I can see. as for benching..virtually every member of Iron Addicts does bench press, and these guys are all competitive strength trainers and not bodybuilders. Some of these guys are in their 50's and 60's. Years not doing bench did nothing positive for me and had the obvious result.
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the other things is this is a health forum thats unlike others in the sense that it promotes a diet which proves particularly cataboliizing for most folks (by this I mean muscle built from old materials, not muscle built on the diet.) making much of this irrelevant anyway.
Its possible you've radically re-examined your past errors or whatever but if you are interested in truly learning in clearing out old drugs, tissues, and then re-building muscles on a raw diet, perhaps you are still somewhat oversimplifying things.
KD, I am just like you in your workout philosophy. What is functional in our every day lives is what promotes energy and vigor. I am interested in building a body that can set an example for others while also building functional muscles (instead of hypertrophy). A body that denotes power and athleticism is the true goal, while also being able to actually do the things you look like you can do (strength).
I for one also do not have the time to run marathons and swim laps, and personally it is boring for me. If one cannot gain both anerobic strength and increase aerobic capacity doing box jumps or sprints which may take 10-30 minutes as opposed to running miles that could take hours, there is something wrong. Also in the 21st century, we basically all have adrenal fatigue as a result of excess cortisol from exogenous environmental toxins, too much work, stress, relationship problems, and overtraining. Who really needs to be exercising more? Maybe if you are a sponsored bodybuilder who is being paid to train, eat, and sleep, but for the rest of us regular Joes who work and go to college like me, for those with kids, and stressful jobs, and a house to maintain, the last thing we need to do is exercise more, if anything we need more relaxation.
This premise is why I agree with KD, as the real goal in working out is getting the most benefit in the least amount time. Who really wants to be in the gym for hours?
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So how long do you guys spend on flexibility and stretching a day?
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SI do gauge that many people even on this site could not lift my Slankers order (60 lbs) up to my third floor apartment.
Only cripples..
So how long do you guys spend on flexibility and stretching a day?
Why stretch?
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Stretch only some tight areas like hamstring calves and lower back before some exercises.
Some flexibility is good too but constantly stretching is unfortunately not paleo nor healthy either.
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I think a good way to look at stretching is that yes it is not paleo, but neither is squatting 500lbs or doing bench presses, therefore, unnatural exercises may require unnatural rehabilitation. I am a proponent of stretching, unfortunately in spite of convenience, I never do them.
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If some joints have naturally less ROM it's for a reason.. But if you get a natural urge to stretch that too is for a reason.
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Only cripples..
Why stretch?
alright miley you do me a favor and prove to me you arn't the worst and least knowledgeable poster on this site and actually prove what you imply here that you are capable of say: 50 russian step ups with 60 lbs in dumbbells. I'm sure i'll get some lame excuse on a video but if you can go do this and report back honestly i'll reconsider my original statement which is that for me lifting this box is incredibly arduous so I assume its more so or impossible for the vast majority of people who can't deadlift, squat, or otherwise just lift large amounts of weight.
As for stretching, stretching and warmup is not just a safety and precautionary process. It is that and tons of people will swear sooner or later you will injure yourself if you are not stretching prior to AND after workouts. But the other thing is stretching will make your workouts deeper, more effective, and will probably build muscle faster. I've depended heavily on isometric stretching for muscle growth and its also a great way to detoxify and cleanse matter form your tissues which are constantly under static activity.
There is thousands of years of technology within yoga (basically stretches only) that some people can use pretty much as a complete system for both muscle growth and well being successfully..even independent of diet. The only gripe with the yoga people is actually it will not reset certain mobilities as easily as with weighted exercises ironically. For instance i'm one of the more flexible people at my cf gym in some ways and probably one of the least flexible in shoulders. I can hardly do a decent overhead squat with a 45lb bar without my shoulders feeling like they are going to crumble. So in that sense assuming doing those kinds of exercises will promote mobility...this trumps yoga which trumps natural movement which provides no real system for assessing and rigorous working over problems which is essentially what all self improvement is. Its this mindset (as with attitudes towards diet and healing) that will never actually tackle the problems and issues at hand but results in just spinning in circles with the same crappy ideology.
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You dont think squats and deads are functional???
i prefer deadlift to squat and i prefer power clean to deadlift.
i feel the deadlift is too static, too symmetrical. real world stress ( running away from a tiger ) is more dynamic, more asymmetric and an exercise like a power clean better approximates that. of course an actual sprint approximates it best.
you can develop more power with deadlifts that can be used in the real world because in the real world your power will be limited by various stabilizing muscles which you fail to train adequately with such a static symmetrical exercise. so actually you are just building dead weight that will impede rather than improve your real world performance.
if you take a well designed sports car like Honda S2000 for example and replace its 2 liter engine with a huge 8 liter engine from a pickup truck it will become SLOWER not faster around the track. because the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. the car won't be able to put the extra power down to the pavement and all you will have accomplished is disturb the balance of its weight distribution.
once again a deadlift is an exercise much better than what most people do in the gym, so it isn't a "bad" exercise. and yet it is a POWERLIFTING exercise and i feel powerlifting on the whole is too ... square.
i think deadlift AS AN EXERCISE can be a part of even the best training regimen. just as long as you treat it as an EXERCISE and not as a sport in itself. i don't have anything against doing deadlifts once in a while. it's when you begin to set your goals in terms of how much you want to deadlift that you are making a mistake.
well, that's my opinion.
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If you were climbing a mountain you're be doing pull-ups, not chin ups.
i use the terms interchangeably. i use parallel grip myself, like so:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/charles4ddbig.jpg
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This premise is why I agree with KD, as the real goal in working out is getting the most benefit in the least amount time
no the real goal should be doing the least permanent damage to your body. because benefit is subjective but damage is not.
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as far as stretching what i do is PRACTICE the movement before executing it.
a lot of time injury occurs due to nerve misfire so to speak - when you activate the wrong motor units or in the wrong sequence. if its been a week since u last performed the exercise your brain will not coordinate the movement perfectly from the first try.
i usually start with the naked bar and just practice the form for one set. then i put on very light weight and do one more practice set. i keep increasing the weight gradually so it takes me about 3 or 4 sets to get to the working weight. if i start to feel any pain i will spend a few extra sets on the same weight without increasing it - and if the pain isn't going away i will abort the exercise for the day.
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How is stretching not paleo??? Every other animal stretches and I can only assume wild humans stretch.
I try to stretch on a daily basis usually in the evening for about 10-15 mins
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Animals stretch, and watching animals for your ideas and then improving on them is about as paleo as it gets.
Another thing to think about is they say you cant be strong without being supple. The hard and soft?
I do a lot of 'power yoga' and I take doing that over weights any day of the week.
Now I also do a lot more MMA/Grappling stuff and not as much carrying rocks up stairs, But during grappling I dont find myself having trouble matching strength during grappling with guys who are 30lbs heavier than i am. But what I can do is use my strength in poses that other guys would not even be able to get into, which puts me at a huge advantage.
Mabye they have stronger specialized muscles from lifting stuff, where as i am holding my body weight and rolling through a whole range of motions with it which gives a more rounded conditioning, so a 'real world' application of my strength trumps their ability, but i wont be able to pump as much weight with just my biceps.
I lose my train of thought.. I think i was trying to say something like "If you want to lift weights your body will turn itself into a specialized tool that wouldn't transpose well over to say, swimming. A swimmers body will develop for the tasks its going to do. Then you could go for a jack of all trades kind of body but you're not going to perform them as good as the guy who'se specialized for it, but you can do pretty well at a larger range of stuff.
tldr; ah... There is no 'best', just the best for your particular application of your body. Kind of like how they say zero carb will give you more stamina, and carbs give you more explosive energy (i dont know if i believe this but whatever), so you cant have everything?
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well, that's my opinion.
ok, well at least here you are now acknowledging what is in fact just your opinion.
what should be made more clear however, is you are working backwards with this stuff. you already conceivably have muscle built up (from many of the programs you criticize), have admitted to being overweight and are not on any raw and cleansing diet, therefore you are not in the position most people are in here which is the desire to build muscle through a raw diet, which is already slightly different than on many other programs. Doing many of the things you are talking about is basically just something that applies to you and bringing to whatever balance you now see as right. My prediction is this will change pretty dramatically if you actually cut out all the supplements and refined foods and are reliant on building your body back naturally, which ain't easy and would be prety inhibited by many of the things you are talking about.
As I said, you are leaving out massive gaps in terms of criticizing of safety and applicability. Many extreme lifters probably have a problematic mindset and SOME of these people tear their pectorals and other such things. Virtually everyone is damaged from long term chlorine exposure and running (knee issues, joint paint, arthritis etc...). There is a difference between being informative on which types of exercises can be dangerous. (however, the idea that a power clean is less dangerous that a deadlift or a bench press is just ridiculous) and attacking things due to their potential for being dangerous.
But the real important point is that people just plain have different goals. if one's goal is in fact to put on muscle on an otherwise non-existent frame, and they are eating a raw paleo centered diet, they arn't going to do this very efficiently through running, swiming and other exercises. If people choose to do those because they are fun and happy with the results that they DO give, then that is a completely different argument as to which is 'better' or healthier.
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Animals stretch, and watching animals for your ideas and then improving on them is about as paleo as it gets.
Another thing to think about is they say you cant be strong without being supple. The hard and soft?
I do a lot of 'power yoga' and I take doing that over weights any day of the week.
Now I also do a lot more MMA/Grappling stuff and not as much carrying rocks up stairs, But during grappling I dont find myself having trouble matching strength during grappling with guys who are 30lbs heavier than i am. But what I can do is use my strength in poses that other guys would not even be able to get into, which puts me at a huge advantage.
Mabye they have stronger specialized muscles from lifting stuff, where as i am holding my body weight and rolling through a whole range of motions with it which gives a more rounded conditioning, so a 'real world' application of my strength trumps their ability, but i wont be able to pump as much weight with just my biceps.
I lose my train of thought.. I think i was trying to say something like "If you want to lift weights your body will turn itself into a specialized tool that wouldn't transpose well over to say, swimming. A swimmers body will develop for the tasks its going to do. Then you could go for a jack of all trades kind of body but you're not going to perform them as good as the guy who'se specialized for it, but you can do pretty well at a larger range of stuff.
tldr; ah... There is no 'best', just the best for your particular application of your body. Kind of like how they say zero carb will give you more stamina, and carbs give you more explosive energy (i dont know if i believe this but whatever), so you cant have everything?
Well, whose to say that these guys are serious strength trainers...? Your point is right though. If one actually HAS functional strength, particularly the super specifics (like bicep strength) are absolutely unimportant. but likely you get the traditional gym rat and you put them in a crossfit type situation and they will buckle pretty quick too, but so might alot of the MMA guys. One of the first things that I pointed out is I no longer agree with any of these philosophies as being superior as it all depends on ones goals. AFAIC some gym rat person that looks good and enjoys what they are doing is a perfectly legitimate way to spend their time. If they want to argue that their routine is better, I have to actually size up their results before trying to pick apart what they are doing. anything else is just arguing conceptual talking points.
my experience with a raw ketogenic diet is I have increased both endurance and short spurt type energy. In a way this manifests similar to the unlimited well of energy people describe, but generally this is only in situations that I 'need' it, like burning through a workout at crossfit. Overall I tend to have a steady energy that I would describe as slightly on the low side, kind of subdued.
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KD how low carb increased your endurance?
For me this kind of diet didn't really work I almost collapse on a basketball court after few sprints.
When I add 200 grams of healthy carbs fruits soaked oats sweet potatoes my performance increase.
Carbs improve explosiveness and endurance when consumed in normal ammounts because of glycogen stores in muscle its already proven..
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KD how low carb increased your endurance?
For me this kind of diet didn't really work I almost collapse on a basketball court after few sprints.
When I add 200 grams of healthy carbs fruits soaked oats sweet potatoes my performance increase.
Carbs improve explosiveness and endurance when consumed in normal ammounts because of glycogen stores in muscle its already proven..
I believe what neone was saying was that alot of the ZCers will claim that - contrary to common knowledge - that without any carbs the body actually will perform extremely well in endurance type situations (far better than any carb loading), but that it won't perform as well in short burst type exercise or in building serious muscle mass. Again..this is THEIR claim.
I really don't know what the long term solution is for best health or even the the best program for lifting in the short term. I experiment with a variety of things but overall I have no problem with short term energy or building muscle eating next to no carbs. most of the carbs I eat are from animal sources like organs and eggs and vegetables like herbs and mushrooms. I'll eat some fruit when I got to the market and get whatever I want which is usually 1-2 pieces of fruit 1-2 times a week.
So while I don't know if any of this is even healthy, I can say that if one is serious about using fat efficiently for energy ts certainly a commitment that might require an entire year or more of shitty symptoms... including massive chronic fatigue and virtually no energy for exercise. just my experience.
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I believe what neone was saying was that alot of the ZCers will claim that - contrary to common knowledge - that without any carbs the body actually will perform extremely well in endurance type situations (far better than any carb loading), but that it won't perform as well in short burst type exercise or in building serious muscle mass. Again..this is THEIR claim.
I really don't know what the long term solution is for best health or even the the best program for lifting in the short term. I experiment with a variety of things but overall I have no problem with short term energy or building muscle eating next to no carbs. most of the carbs I eat are from animal sources like organs and eggs and vegetables like herbs and mushrooms. I'll eat some fruit when I got to the market and get whatever I want which is usually 1-2 pieces of fruit 1-2 times a week.
So while I don't know if any of this is even healthy, I can say that if one is serious about using fat efficiently for energy ts certainly a commitment that might require an entire year or more of shitty symptoms... including massive chronic fatigue and virtually no energy for exercise. just my experience.
Very true KD, but then there are people like me who run on fat fuel. I have the absolute shittiest workouts when running on carbohydrates. My body loses energy really fast and I get extremely sluggish before I even get to the gym. Does not matter the carb source whether it be from fruit or not, although some low glycemic carbs such as vegetables will do. Either way, as long as I have a good amount of fat 1-2hrs before my workout, it is the best workout ever. I also am ketogenic, eating nothing but meat and maybe a fruit here and there like once or twice a week. I've been keto for months and have not had a single problem as of yet. If anything I have more energy, or it may be a placebo thing due to the fact that high fat clears my skin and I am more confident out in public. Directly or indirectly, high fat and low to zero carb works wonders for me. But then again, I will say I am eating a good amount of protein, which has the potential to convert 57% of aminos into glucose so the little carbs I am running on are from protein.
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I did have major issue's with short intensive movement (30 min full body HIT-workout) when on low carb. On my strenght training days, once a week, I eat loads of grapes or pineapple with raw milk for 5-1 hours before my workout. Than fast 1 hour than hit the weights. This way I get just enough carbs to be able to perform but use most of them up in my workout.
No problem with endurance type training perhaps even better on LC
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.... have admitted to being overweight and are not on any raw and cleansing diet...
What???
You're saying your boy is not raw, semi-raw, paleo, quasi-paleo, and is fat? I'm finding it a tad hard to believe that a fat SAD dude is giving advice on diet and exercise on a raw paleo forum. Perhaps he was speaking in the past tense?
I must have missed that post(s).
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What???
You're saying your boy is not raw, semi-raw, paleo, quasi-paleo, and is fat? I'm finding it a tad hard to believe that a fat SAD dude is giving advice on diet and exercise on a raw paleo forum. Perhaps he was speaking in the past tense?
I must have missed that post(s).
just for you skinny i went to the bathroom and took a pic of myself 5 minutes ago ...
i am 175 lbs @ 5'10" and 29 years old.
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just for you skinny i went to the bathroom and took a pic of myself 5 minutes ago ...
i am 175 lbs @ 5'10" and 29 years old.
Looking buff - good on ya.
I told you that had to be a misunderstanding, KD. He was (I assume) speaking in the past tense.
So, Proteus, care to clear up any other misconceptions? Seems KD was/is under the impression you are not paleo or raw, either. So how much of your caloric intake is raw and what's your dietary concept of "paleo" (and how closely do you adhere to that concept)?
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my typical meal right now is half a banana, a pair of dates, three whole eggs, a scoop of hemp seeds, a scoop of casein and two scoops of whey protein all tossed in a food processor and blended into a pudding. i eat this 3 times a day or so and these are my main meals. in between the meals i will grab an apple or a piece of dark chocolate.
this is my "cheating" diet so to speak - i just eat it because it tastes so good. but if i can get back on track diet wise i will be drinking green smoothies. my green smoothie would look something like 150 grams spinach, a 200 gram apple, a scoop of hemp seeds, one whole egg, one scoop whey protein, one scoop egg white protein, one scoop casein.
i don't eat raw flesh :( but i am aiming for 100% raw if you consider whey protein "raw" ...
i don't eat anything out of grains ... but my protein mostly comes from milk ( although i don't use any other milk products except protein ). so i am about 50% paleo.
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woah, SD I never said fat or SAD diet. I said working backwards from having muscle and other bodyweight built up on other programs, which is entirely differnt than building muscle (particularly from having 0 muscle ) via a raw diet. Its my opinion and years of observation that even if one has a particularly healthy diet that if they move to an actual raw diet free of extraneous compounds that they'll probably lose a great deal of their bodyweight and a degree of muscle. This is particularly true for ZC and VLC diets. Anway, as you probably have seen yourself on raw vegan forums..theres no shortage of people transitioning diets (having lots of bodyweight to burn) who will appear to have a stable muscular build 6 months or so into such a diet, but this has nothing to do with 'building muscle' on such programs. This phenomena exists whether a diet is vegan, veg, or 'paleo'.
There was mention of coming from overweight as in past tense, not that this was the advice of someone out of shape. I'm suggesting the opposite actually. and that this type of getting in shape is subjective due to where people are coming from. People eating a raw paleo/primal type diet, generally can't take those kind of liberties because they are coming from an entirely different paradigm..basically what I said before.
Very true KD, but then there are people like me who run on fat fuel. I have the absolute shittiest workouts when running on carbohydrates. My body loses energy really fast and I get extremely sluggish before I even get to the gym. Does not matter the carb source whether it be from fruit or not, although some low glycemic carbs such as vegetables will do. Either way, as long as I have a good amount of fat 1-2hrs before my workout, it is the best workout ever. I also am ketogenic, eating nothing but meat and maybe a fruit here and there like once or twice a week. I've been keto for months and have not had a single problem as of yet. If anything I have more energy, or it may be a placebo thing due to the fact that high fat clears my skin and I am more confident out in public. Directly or indirectly, high fat and low to zero carb works wonders for me. But then again, I will say I am eating a good amount of protein, which has the potential to convert 57% of aminos into glucose so the little carbs I am running on are from protein.
yeah there is deffinetly no rules apparently with this stuff. I tend to believe that if we are talking about ideals..its probably true that at least some manner of carb cycling will be the absolute best for performance. For me it doesn't seem to be necessary for a good deal of competitive energy and some fairly freakish muscle 'growth' in terms of strength but more or less stay the same in terms of size. I do think as with some of the other discussions that that if someone wanted massive growth in muscle size and possibly performance that they would be better served by some non raw and probably non paleo things to be determined.
btw...In case it was confusing, I wasn't suggesting people had to go through a year of agony..just that anyone who said they have this or that symptom or hit to their performance prior to AT LEAST one year I wouldn't take very seriously as a criticism.
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Ran 5 miles
that's not paleo. no chase ( whether you are the hunter or the hunted ) lasts this long. a chase lasts up to about a minute and in that time either the prey is caught or the predator gives up.
jogging intensity is too high to approximate walking ( of which paleos did a lot ) which means you are going to be overtraining at best and working on an injury most likely if you want to substitute walking by jogging.
on the other hand jogging intensity is too low to approximate a chase, so you will not really be adequately hitting any of the muscles required for a sprint either.
of course you can't run 5 miles without touching your heels - i can't either. your wrong workout is what forces you to adopt wrong technique.
i use biking instead of walking. biking intensity is roughly halfway between walking and jogging. i simply have no time to walk for 5 hours like a real caveman but i can bike for 2.
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in fact i have a suggestion for miles and the rest of you who do running. i just invented this and i want you to try it - hunt sprints !
find a partner of roughly similar sprinting ability as you. give him some distance ( say 100 feet ) head and then pretend he is the prey and you are trying to eat him - sprint after him. within a short time ( less than a minute ) it will become obvious whether you are going to catch him or not. if yes - catch him. if not - give up.
if you caught him very easily give him more head ( say 150 feet ) next time. if you almost caught him give him less head next time ( say 50 feet ). if he was faster than you reverse roles.
the point of this exercise is it will teach you what is the proper intensity and duration of a real-life sprint. it is almost certainly going to be longer than a 100 meter dash and almost certainly going to be shorter than any distance you may be jogging.
another key element of this is that your actual speed will vary throughout the sprint as you are attempting to develop a winning strategy. modern running events are artificial in that the distance you are to run is known form the beginning and the entire length is run at the same pace. in a real hunt the pace changes all the time.
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that's not paleo. no chase ( whether you are the hunter or the hunted ) lasts this long. a chase lasts up to about a minute and in that time either the prey is caught or the predator gives up.
Classic...
http://www.youtube.com/v/9wI-9RJi0Qo?fs
Persistence hunting is a hunting technique in which hunters use a combination of running and tracking to pursue prey to the point of exhaustion.
Persistence hunting requires endurance running – running many miles for extended periods of time. Among primates, endurance running is only seen in humans, and persistence hunting is thought to have been one of the earliest forms of human hunting, having evolved 2 million years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
its pretty interesting - i will have to think about it.
i just hate to think that i might have been wrong and miles right LOL.
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its pretty interesting - i will have to think about it.
i just hate to think that i might have been wrong and miles right LOL.
The main reason you were wrong is because you aren't in a position to judge anyone's approach. There was almost 50 pages in the "Today's Workout' thread with next to nothing but intelligent and experienced support from people on a raw paleo diet to others with aiding their individual exercise goals. I can only think of one exception which was basically an almost identical person with the same exact mindset who was removed from the site. There is no right or wrong with diet or exercise, only different approaches that yield different body compositions and yes some different exercises that may or may not be more efficient or detrimental for those goals.
Most the suggestions you are making in this and other sub-forums you are not coming from some place of significant long term practice (never mind success) with a raw (meat) diet. This site doesn't discriminate against people who eat some cooked and processed things or even some types of regular processed and 'neolithic' foods, but in order to be taken seriously as 'paleo' the diet HAS to regularly have animal foods as part of the diet. Eating gobs of rice does not make a macrobiotic diet and eating tons of OJ does not make a Wai diet. Different diets have certain requirements making your diet 0% paleo. if you were eating raw meat regularly, you'd realize that most of your suggestions would be pretty destructive on such a diet as many of these things can really mess up the transit and metabolization and safety of raw animal foods consumption.
on all the raw diet forums I've been on in 6 years percentage raw is determined something like this:
if you are 75 % raw this means eating ALL raw (no dried foods/ powders/supplements) throughout the day and then having like a salad with some steamed salmon and/or rice with cooked vegetables or something. At the time being you are basically eating almost entirely cooked and processed foods at every meal the bulk of your calories being processed food and processed dried fruit and heated sweeteners like honey and agave. This is basically 0% raw with some fresh greens and eggs and some fresh fruit which is probably less raw food than my grandmother eats in a nursing home. One major point in eating raw foods is it brings the body closer to fasting with the foods being highly digestible and sometimes avoiding much engagement with the stomach at all. Someone eating a conventional warrior diet of cooked meats and grains is getting more out of this concept than including a bunch of dried and processed 'raw' foods in their diet with otherwise ignorance to how this stuff works.
so as i said before, please do yourself and everyone a favor and try to LEARN why it is people do certain things, before having like 8 billion answers..particular about what is 'the most paleo' type of activities and eating. If you do choose to include yourself in these things others are doing here, you will soon realize that many of the things you are saying for each (food and exercise) WON'T work anymore and many of the things you thought you knew will probably go out the window. Its the main reason people participate in such things to begin with.
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Body Building Grandma Ernestine Shepherd Bench Presses, Runs Marathons At 73
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mess-ernestine-shepherd-body-building-grandma-benches-150/story?id=10480184&page=1
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Body Building Grandma Ernestine Shepherd Bench Presses, Runs Marathons At 73
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mess-ernestine-shepherd-body-building-grandma-benches-150/story?id=10480184&page=1
WOW!!!!!
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WOW!!!!!
I very much doubt if she's all natural.
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KD you are being so vague it is almost as if you were not saying anything at all.
how do you suggest the difference between my diet and your idea of a raw paleo diet would impact training ?
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KD you are being so vague it is almost as if you were not saying anything at all.
how do you suggest the difference between my diet and your idea of a raw paleo diet would impact training ?
I'm not saying there is one paleo diet that is ideal, i'm saying that by definition a raw paleo diet includes flesh foods and is not a lacto-ovo diet filled with processed and dried food and heated sweeteners. Whether its high in flesh proteins or fats is individual. I do have my biases on that but that is an entirely different story.
You act as if your knowledge about which foods and routines work is based on what is working in the present, but in fact all of this stuff is built up from the past with likely far less than a single year doing what you are currently doing (in exercise OR diet) in terms of what yields results. It seems like you've lost both weight and strength in this period and are rationalizing that as to what is 'paleo'
it basically isn't even an issue of performance. Its mostly an issue of health first.
your diet = fungal mess within one year and is not conducive to long term health or ideal performance. Hardly any of these foods are even foods never-mind ones that remotely exist in nature. We know bodybuilders and strength trainers can have excellent results in the short term abusing all kinds of foods and dietary methods but this isn't the same as building health and muscle on a raw diet which has both challenges and advantages.
someone that is on a 100% or near raw diet, the body will actually start to break down old materials and slowly build them with new ones. You are not remotely involved in this process because you eat cooked and processed foods all day, so therefore when you suggest things like 90% swimming in a chlorinated pool, you don't understand that this wouldn't work for someone trying to build muscle or health eating a raw diet that doesn't have bodyfat or extra calories to spare. What you don't get about recommending carb binging on a ZC discussion, is the people probably were driven to a ZC diet based in some past abuse of fungally sugars and processed foods in the past.
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I very much doubt if she's all natural.
Its generally hard to tell from photos..but in this video you can see that her tissue quality is incredibly healthy, hardly indicative of dietary abuse or chemical use.
generally very few bodybuilders make it to that age..specifically because of supplementation..and not as much because of the types of workouts and such that they do.
its not like her strength and size is something that warrants anything but a healthful diet. She talks alot about faith and such here, I don't think a now 75 year old woman would be in the closet pushing pills and then say she only used vit D. Alot of the other old bags seem to be holding up well. All on Vitamin church.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCIesHhCoP0
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What struck me was that she said she didn't do any exercise until 56. She looks young for 73, and if she was average would expect her to have degenerated more through inactivity.
Maybe she's had surgery on her face or something. I dunno I suppose anything's possible if you have good genes.
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I very much doubt if she's all natural.
Whether she is all natural or not really does not matter. Sure, people in their 70's can look like that and be all natural, but for most people, the inevitability of withering away to bone by that age is the case. While I am against the use of steroids, they do play their part in elderly people on primarily cooked diets and definitely help them maintain and even gain muscle mass in their last years instead of them living in a nursing home decrepit.
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I'm not all against it..just saying. People frame it as a miracle...if it is hormones then there you go.
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I'm not saying there is one paleo diet that is ideal, i'm saying that by definition a raw paleo diet includes flesh foods and is not a lacto-ovo diet filled with processed and dried food and heated sweeteners. Whether its high in flesh proteins or fats is individual. I do have my biases on that but that is an entirely different story.
You act as if your knowledge about which foods and routines work is based on what is working in the present, but in fact all of this stuff is built up from the past with likely far less than a single year doing what you are currently doing (in exercise OR diet) in terms of what yields results. It seems like you've lost both weight and strength in this period and are rationalizing that as to what is 'paleo'
it basically isn't even an issue of performance. Its mostly an issue of health first.
your diet = fungal mess within one year and is not conducive to long term health or ideal performance. Hardly any of these foods are even foods never-mind ones that remotely exist in nature. We know bodybuilders and strength trainers can have excellent results in the short term abusing all kinds of foods and dietary methods but this isn't the same as building health and muscle on a raw diet which has both challenges and advantages.
someone that is on a 100% or near raw diet, the body will actually start to break down old materials and slowly build them with new ones. You are not remotely involved in this process because you eat cooked and processed foods all day, so therefore when you suggest things like 90% swimming in a chlorinated pool, you don't understand that this wouldn't work for someone trying to build muscle or health eating a raw diet that doesn't have bodyfat or extra calories to spare. What you don't get about recommending carb binging on a ZC discussion, is the people probably were driven to a ZC diet based in some past abuse of fungally sugars and processed foods in the past.
interesting analysis KD, but what are these fungus you keep talking about ? how am i eating that ?
generally very few bodybuilders make it to that age..specifically because of supplementation
you're playing with my head now lol. the only bodybuilding supplement i use is protein.
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by the way the reason i like swimming so much is the cold water seems to activate some sort of thermogenesis pathways which include shivering, but i think are not limited to it. the cold also forces you to exercise to avoid freezing - your body is simply yelling at you i need to move! this is the opposite of what happens when jogging where you overheat and the body starts to put on the brakes on your exercise ( by inducing a feeling of weakness and exhaustion ) to avoid further overheating. you just end up burning much more fat in the pool and i attribute it mostly to cold water.
if you were to try to get the same benefit simply from exercising outdoors in winter or climbing mount everest or something you would end up freezing your fingers and ears off before your core temperature even started dropping. what's great about water is it wicks a tremendous amount of heat from your body while at a temperature ( 80 degrees ) that poses no threat to your extremities. in other words the water sucks heat MUCH more evenly from your surface.
because ultimately your ability to burn calories is limited by 3 factors:
1 - your ability to pump oxygen through your lungs
2 - your ability to circulate red blood cells from the lungs to the tissue burning calories
3 - your ability to dissipate the heat produced when those calories are metabolized
biking seems to be the best at meeting these 3 criteria overall because it addresses all 3.
1 - the way your torso is supported with the hands on the handlebars allows you to breathe much more freely than when jogging because you're not using shoulder belt muscles to stabilize yourself and therefore you are not putting extra pressure on your rib cage.
2 - with proper pedaling technique ( and proper pedals / shoes ) you are using i would say half of all your body's musculature ( all of legs, plus glutes ) and its a lot easier to push blood volume through that, than through a tiny muscle like a bicep.
3 - the high wind that you effectively create as you are riding at a speed can provide sufficient cooling in almost any weather. you can feel cool on a cycle in the same weather in which jogging would feel hot.
which is why biking is my #1 exercise and swimming my #2
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Whether she is all natural or not really does not matter. Sure, people in their 70's can look like that and be all natural, but for most people, the inevitability of withering away to bone by that age is the case. While I am against the use of steroids, they do play their part in elderly people on primarily cooked diets and definitely help them maintain and even gain muscle mass in their last years instead of them living in a nursing home decrepit.
To me if you look by where her shoulders are and stuff you can see that she ain't the average 75 year old. Its not just the skin or musculature...
Its probably true that she had some good genes to build on but it seems there is quite a lot to be done through fairly healthy diet (mostly 'paleo' at least in Cordain sense) restrictive of modern foods (except some egg supplement) and positive attitude and hard work.
interesting analysis KD, but what are these fungus you keep talking about ? how am i eating that ?
generally speaking, processed and heated grain-fed dairy
mixed with heated pure refined sugars
in indigestible combinations with nuts/seeds and plants fibers (all of which themselves are fairly indigestible)
with complete absence of healthy fat and healthy protein does not feed healthful things in the body. It happens to replicate (or be worse than) what most of the processes in SWD and vegetarian diets in terms of what makes people super ill over time.
very few of these foods are 'paleo' because they have been extracted or processed in some way. The only thing that might remotely be paleo is some of the fresh fruits, tender leaves and eggs. Although I eat these things, generally eggs arn't high on the list as to regular food for humans, and many of the vegetables were not even in existence in paleo times. As per above, eggs are (non living unless fertilized) animal food which require to be able to pass quickly through the stomach which means they don't combine with fibrous material of any kind except fresh fruit. Anyway, This is small potatoes stuff and is only worth pointing out because of your insistance on what is 'paleo'. The point is, you need to step into the ballpark to make these calls man.
Ironically I can see some eating some grass-fed or goat protein powder maybe once a day if they were on a cooked paleo diet and wern't eating alot of muscle meat. The green powders i'm sort of on the fence on...but thats mostly when eating raw meats as they expand inside and are generally only consumed with other plant fibers (I would never add it to juice for instance). All the other stuff like dates, raisins, heated agave and heated honey are probably some of the absolute worst foods someone can eat. Even the people who recommend these foods (I think finally no one recommends agave or anything other than truly cold-packed honey as these 100% heat processed) would say not to combine these with fatty foods/diet and certainly not pasteurized dairy. Just eating pasteurized dairy with fresh fruit generally is not a good idea, unless its mostly fat like cream which is somewhat less worse.
anyway you don't have to take my word for it, like I said why not participate (ask questions) in the main forums about this stuff, rather than pointing out that other people dont know by now what nutrition or fitness is useful for their situations. Sicne you seem to enjoy criticism so much, why not just outright post what you are doing in the main forums and see what other peoples perspectives are.
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you're playing with my head now lol. the only bodybuilding supplement i use is protein.
the point is, is that its possible to do bodybuilding AND extreme distance running well into ones senior years. people can point out all the risks they want with this stuff and at the end of the day the only thing one can say is that the less natural the movement the greater likelihood one could get injured doing more natural movements - like moving boxes up the stairs. For the vast majority of people who just want a toned physique this doesn't really matter, and one can injure themselves just as easily pushing themselves in one way or the other in wither strength or endurance.
I don't do marathon type running because I desire a different physique than running or other endurance activities provide. I can use all kinds of evidence from 'paleo' experts as to why serious running is bad but at the end of the day my own goals and lack of enjoyment in running is sufficient.
as I said at the very beginning of this nonsense ...what I realized at a certain point is all these people (from bodybuilders to cross-fitters and yoga folks) just project their biases as to what is good, with very few of them having a complete closed argument as to what types of things can be beneficial or detrimental.
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Since you seem to enjoy criticism so much, why not just outright post what you are doing in the main forums and see what other peoples perspectives are.
i know what i am doing is wrong. i don't see the alternatives. i know the people are going to say eat raw meat and fish and don't worry about parasites. hehe. well i can't not worry :)
also i'm not sure i am up to the task of sourcing quality meat and fish. my protein i just order on amazon, it comes to me all by itself and there are no special storage considerations ( although i keep it in the fridge anyway, just because i can ).
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all these people (from bodybuilders to cross-fitters and yoga folks) just project their biases as to what is good, with very few of them having a complete closed argument as to what types of things can be beneficial or detrimental.
well sure. and yet there seems to be a clear bias, the source of which is the limited capacity of the brain to think.
it is much easier to understand what is involved in a retarded exercise like a curl than what is involved in an exercise like running.
most people who run don't understand what they are doing - they just do it because somebody told them once its good to lose weight and when they tried it worked so they kept doing it ever since.
few people will spend hours pondering what is the most efficient way to build abs lets say and come to the conclusion that it is by sprinting or swimming butterfly ( whether that conclusion is correct or not is another question ).
so running or swimming may not be the best for everybody but there are very few people for whom bicep curls are the best who instead are engaged in running or swimming. on the other hand there are many people for whom swimming or running would be best but they are instead engaged in curling because they are too stupid to know anything else.
its just that everybody knows you can get big biceps by doing curls and everybody knows you can lose weight by running. but few people know that you can shape your entire physique by sprints. most people have no idea at all that you can use sprints to train whether it is on the track or in the pool. 99% of people run and swim monotonously at a snail pace for 40 minutes and then go home.
this is because they can't visualize how their muscle is being activated during a sprint the same way as they can visualize it when curling. i couldn't understand it myself until i tried sprinting for the first time and immediately tore my hamstring. i couldn't understand how after doing heavy deadlifts every week for a long time ( going to about 95% max weight on most workouts and never running into any serious injuries ) i could tear my hamstring "just" by running ? thanks to that unfortunate incident now i understand - but 99% of people still have no clue.
ANYWAY THE SUN IS SHINING I GOTTA RUN OUT TO BIKE ...
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i know what i am doing is wrong. i don't see the alternatives. i know the people are going to say eat raw meat and fish and don't worry about parasites. hehe. well i can't not worry :)
You lost me...what are you doing that is wrong? If you know it's wrong, why are you doing it?
Why is it you - as opposed to others - need to worry so much about parasite in particular (as opposed to the other oppositions to eating raw meats)?
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Why is it you - as opposed to others - need to worry so much about parasite in particular (as opposed to the other oppositions to eating raw meats)?
because i don't know the other ones ? fill me in !
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You hear scary things everywhere, like Alveolar Hydatid Disease/Echinococcosis and other parasite-based diseases (as well as the parasites themselves, like tapeworms), listeriosis (& other bacterial infections), E Coli, trichinosis, salmonella....
The effects of many of these on HEALTHY humans, however, is not often studied - only the effects on unhealthy humans.
Some, like tapeworms, are detrimental regardless. Others, like salmonella, we have recently learned have positive health impact on healthy people.
Is there some reason you need to concern yourself with these more than other people?
What is it you refer to when you say you know you are wrong?
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Is there some reason you need to concern yourself with these more than other people?
What is it you refer to when you say you know you are wrong?
when i say i know i'm wrong i mean i know humans aren't supposed to eat whey protein.
medical conditions ? i like to think that i don't have any although i do have borderline high blood pressure, some heart hypertrophy, possibly elevated kidney and liver values. my pinky fingers get numb when i sleep - probably an issue of blood circulation.
also i get dizzy sometimes when i have a lot of caffeine and/or listen to very deep and loud bass on my stereo ( i have a 200 pound, 2400 watt 18" subwoofer ) so this may be physical damage to the vestibular apparatus from too much bass, or may also be an issue of blood pressure or both.
but i don't have any conditions that my doctor would consider in need of treatment or even monitoring. my blood sugar and cholesterol are normal. although my cholesterol was off the charts bad when i was taking steroids. all in all i did plenty of damage with steroids - most of these conditions are described are linked in one way or the other to that period of my life - but i don't do them any more.
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when i say i know i'm wrong i mean i know humans aren't supposed to eat whey protein.
medical conditions ? i like to think that i don't have any although i do have borderline high blood pressure, some heart hypertrophy, possibly elevated kidney and liver values. my pinky fingers get numb when i sleep - probably an issue of blood circulation.
also i get dizzy sometimes when i have a lot of caffeine and/or listen to very deep and loud bass on my stereo ( i have a 200 pound, 2400 watt 18" subwoofer ) so this may be physical damage to the vestibular apparatus from too much bass, or may also be an issue of blood pressure or both.
but i don't have any conditions that my doctor would consider in need of treatment or even monitoring. my blood sugar and cholesterol are normal. although my cholesterol was off the charts bad when i was taking steroids. all in all i did plenty of damage with steroids - most of these conditions are described are linked in one way or the other to that period of my life - but i don't do them any more.
Yeah, steroids are known to increase the size of the left ventricle, hence your heart hypertrophy.
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Try doing 8 exexises to complete muscular failure in 20min and you know what I mean. This kind of workout stimulates all 3 kinds of condition: muscular strengt, cardiovascular condition, metabolic condition. No amound of work can substitute intensity.
i think your workout is crap :)
no amount of intensity can substitute for volume.
is it a coincidence that both Lance Armstrong and Michael Phelps exercise 5 hours a day ?
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This "functional strength" thing has been a joke around most weightlifting circles. In the real world, if you have a heavy ass deadlift/squat/bench/row your "functional strength" is going to be pretty damn high. People that argue this are not very strong in the first place, obviously they also don't have any real "functional strength".
Don't know where all these people got the idea from that strong=heavy/slow/non-athletic. Probably just spread by all the weak people to grow their e-penor. Sure I can see if you have overly bulky muscle mass or something like a bodybuilder. That guy who just deadlifted 772 at 170lbs bodyweight to break Ed Coan's record is an amazing sprinter--look him up. I'm pretty damn sure he could lift a heavier rock than you functional boys wouldn't you think? How about beat him in a sprint?
I really wish we could smash this stupid functional strength thing right now... just silly and makes the board look bad to strong people. I don't post here much anymore because all the "know it all about everything" people made it difficult to find the good stuff! O0
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This "functional strength" thing has been a joke around most weightlifting circles. In the real world, if you have a heavy ass deadlift/squat/bench/row your "functional strength" is going to be pretty damn high. People that argue this are not very strong in the first place, obviously they also don't have any real "functional strength".
Don't know where all these people got the idea from that strong=heavy/slow/non-athletic. Probably just spread by all the weak people to grow their e-penor. Sure I can see if you have overly bulky muscle mass or something like a bodybuilder. That guy who just deadlifted 772 at 170lbs bodyweight to break Ed Coan's record is an amazing sprinter--look him up. I'm pretty damn sure he could lift a heavier rock than you functional boys wouldn't you think? How about beat him in a sprint?
I really wish we could smash this stupid functional strength thing right now... just silly and makes the board look bad to strong people. I don't post here much anymore because all the "know it all about everything" people made it difficult to find the good stuff! O0
i am telling you i was deadlifting 4 plates for sets every week with zero issues and the first time i tried sprinting i tore my hamstring.
if you want to repeat other people's mistakes go right ahead.
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Nah B.Money, that dude just has a lot of 'functional strength'.
I think its referring to guys who only work aesthetic muscles and don't ever work on the smaller muscles that contribute to 'real world' applications.
And proteus you tore your leg because you had tight hamstrings from working them so much.
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i am telling you i was deadlifting 4 plates for sets every week with zero issues and the first time i tried sprinting i tore my hamstring.
if you want to repeat other people's mistakes go right ahead.
So what? The first time you try anything you can fuck yourself up. If you were sprinting everyday but the first time you tried deadlifts you tore your hamstring, would you still trash deadlifts?
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The guy I mentioned, Tom, doesn't seem to have a problem. In fact he originally started deadlifting to improve his sprinting. Hamstring issues are very common among sprinters, I wouldn't say deadlifting+sprints=hamstring injury though, thats a long shot. Have you seen Magnusson's 1015lb world record raw deadlift? If you look at one of his recent interviews you may be shocked at what he does to work his speed, sprints!
In your example of the V8 S2000 I think things are a little different with the human body, unless I misunderstood. Although there are plenty of V8 swapped miatas that hold their own on the track as well as aluminum block v8's swapped into rx7's with good success and surprisingly little weight balance disturbance(like 15lbs). There is a point where the extra power benefits over the extra weight, and with the human body you can train in such a way to increase strength and power without adding much unnecessary weight. Such as adding a supercharger or turbo to the S2000--wouldn't upset the weight balance much, and you would surely be getting faster lap times with the extra power in the straights. Even say, comparing the GTR which is a huge beast of a car weighing what, almost 4000lbs, compared to an S2000, weighing 2800lbs, the GTR will still be able to get an advantage due to the extra power (and grip, etc of course) even if it does weigh more.
In comparison a pro bodybuilder might as well be a dump truck with all the extra weight, and muscles trained in a way to be less efficient (at the things we are talking about). I'm talking about staying light, while gaining explosive strength. Can't be anything negative about that? O0
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I'm talking about staying light, while gaining explosive strength. Can't be anything negative about that? O0
this explosive strength will almost certainly come at the price of aerobic endurance in an event like marathon.
i am shooting for balance myself. i just did some power cleans today but i was swimming yesterday and putting on miles on my bike the day before.
when i do cleans its very snappy, pure momentum - in fact its too fast for my own mind to even notice me do it - its done on reflex. but when i ride the bike it is a smooth continuous motion absolutely even and easy just burning calories.
if you lock yourself into a single type of training you develop weaknesses elsewhere no matter how you slice it.
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Very true. Impossible to be the best at everything. Good point.
edit: O0
;D
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@ SkinnyDevil
Oh, no offense taken, man. I was being somewhat tongue in cheek. Your work-outs are BEAST. Would kill me to even attempt that kinda weight.
Good point regarding peak performance of the muscle(s) under stress. I actually need to employ a bit of that. I dropped heavy weights a coupla years ago after a few injuries. Most of that is cleared up, so....
Moving over to the right thread...
It is my strong opinion that heavy weight training is the best thing to help prevent injury. Proper form is the key here. I do all my exercises 4sec pos 2 sec static hold 4 sec neg. Heavy exercise will not only strenghten the muscles but also the tendons, ligaments and bones! My wrist increased 2 inches, almost all of that being bone and tendons getting larger and therefore stronger.
I've been working out 5 years now and have never injured myself(not during my workouts at least). I remember reading that you do your calfs and squats rather explosive. I think you're far more likely to suffer injury from those kind of explosive movements than from proper heavy exercise done in perfect form.
A friend of my had been suffering from knee injury for years, I helped him recover completely in just 2 monts using heavy leg exercises (leg extension, leg curl, full squat). He also gaines 15lbs of muscle as a bonus ;D
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I've been working out 5 years now and have never injured myself(not during my workouts at least).
that's the point - if you train in the gym you will get hurt outside of it - because slow controlled movements will not prepare you for a real life test.
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that's the point - if you train in the gym you will get hurt outside of it - because slow controlled movements will not prepare you for a real life test.
Since starting weight training I've never hurt myself. Before I did afew times. I have hyperflexible joints which used to bother me somewhat. I decided to start weight training to help make my joints more rigid. Did just that. I am stil very flexible but no longer have any problems.
The key in preventing injury of any kind is increasing the structural strenght of all tissues in the body. There is no difference in strenght increases stimulated by slow controlled exercise or by explosive movements of any kind. Explosive and sudden movements create very high impact forces (f=m*a) and therefore are likely to cause injury.
Off course real life events will sometimes demand explosive movements such as fighting, jumping, sprinting enz. I do all of those things and got a whole lot better at them since starting weight training only without the injurys I had before.
A common misconception is that it explosive training results in explosive strength and slow training makes you slow. This is not true there is only one type op strength since muscular fiber can only work in one way. Muscular fibers work on the all or nothing principle either they contract “full on” or they don’t, on or of and nothing in between. The difference in force output is determent only by the amount of fiber used at once and the size of those fibers. Weight training enables you to use more fibers at once by improving the neurological pathways and also stimulate increased fiber size. Explosive training stimulates the same things although never troughout a full rance of possible movement and with added risk off injury.
The explosiveness of a body part is determent by 2 factors: 1 strength of the muscles involved, 2 mass of the body part. So build strength, lose fat.
The best way to prepare your body for any type of activity (fast, explosive, heavy, intense enz) is weight training. No risk of injury(if proper form is used) and maximal tissue(muscle, bones, tendons, ligaments, connective tissue) strength.
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i think your workout is crap :)
no amount of intensity can substitute for volume.
is it a coincidence that both Lance Armstrong and Michael Phelps exercise 5 hours a day ?
Again try doing it. If you truly hit momentary muscular failure at all 8 exercises between 8-15 reps and do the workout in less than 30 min your heart-rate will be >160. If you think that will not increase cardiovascular ability...
Both lance and phelps also do intense short weightlifting to build strenght/condition. To be the best in your sport you must also learn your body the "skills" required for that particular sport. If long distance cycling is your sport than you must cycle long distances t learn you body that skill. Prestation in any activity is a combination of skill and strenght. skill can only be increased in doing practising that skill. Strenght should be increased the most effecient way and very intense, very heavy short workouts happen to be the best way to do that.
I also do cycling, ving tsun(fight sport), parkour (in the forrests), swimming. Those activities obviously require skill but no amound of swimming could have improved my swimming speed as much ass weight training has.
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let's agree to disagree. you don't seem like somebody who is capable of changing his mind.
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let's agree to disagree. you don't seem like somebody who is capable of changing his mind.
I'm always up for intelligent discussion and will change my mind when presented with clear evidence. But I agree.
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that's the point - if you train in the gym you will get hurt outside of it - because slow controlled movements will not prepare you for a real life test.
I train controlled but explosively. Although rare, I have also gotten injuries from lifting too. No risk=no reward to some degree, and this all depends on your goals. I wouldn't train an every day Joe who wants to just improve his quality of life through exercise the same way as a competitive lifter.
I never get injured outside the gym though, if that counts for anything.
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I train controlled but explosively. Although rare, I have also gotten injuries from lifting too. No risk=no reward to some degree, and this all depends on your goals. I wouldn't train an every day Joe who wants to just improve his quality of life through exercise the same way as a competitive lifter.
I never get injured outside the gym though, if that counts for anything.
IMO competitive sport is childish unless ur gettin paid
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IMO competitive sport is childish unless ur gettin paid
ok
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I train controlled but explosively. Although rare, I have also gotten injuries from lifting too. No risk=no reward to some degree, and this all depends on your goals. I wouldn't train an every day Joe who wants to just improve his quality of life through exercise the same way as a competitive lifter.
I never get injured outside the gym though, if that counts for anything.
how do you "control" the high level impact forces upon your tendons etc?
IMO you either train controlled or you train explosive. If competitive lifting is your thing than you have to train explosive to teach your body the skill required to perform those movements. However you should also train controlled to muscular failure to stimulate strength increases the safest way possible. Stregth increases that help to prevent injury when performing those explosive lifts.
Doing explosive movements will not generate some sort of different tissue strength to prevent injury. If your not lifting competitive there is no reward in doing any type of explosive exercise but there sure as hell is a risk in doing them.
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IMO competitive sport is childish unless ur gettin paid
haha holy shit Proteus, have you been taking posting tips from Achilezies?
Gold star for that gem... haha.
You know you can do anything competitively? from darts to fighting to lawn bowls to hockey?
It sounds like an excuse as to why you dont try as hard as you can.. Just keep telling yourself its 'childish'
Taking shit too seriously at the cost of your lifes happiness isnt good; but working hard to keep yourself stronger/more skilled than the other people around you is a good motivator of good health.
Probably why the people here who care about 'childish competition' are trying to eat well and take care of themselves, while you on the other hand drink some mutant cocktail of processed powders as food, even though you know its 'wrong'. haha.
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how do you "control" the high level impact forces upon your tendons etc?
IMO you either train controlled or you train explosive. If competitive lifting is your thing than you have to train explosive to teach your body the skill required to perform those movements. However you should also train controlled to muscular failure to stimulate strength increases the safest way possible. Stregth increases that help to prevent injury when performing those explosive lifts.
Doing explosive movements will not generate some sort of different tissue strength to prevent injury. If your not lifting competitive there is no reward in doing any type of explosive exercise but there sure as hell is a risk in doing them.
I think we may be talking about two different. In my mind, uncontrolled lifting would just mean sloppy. Uneven bar movement, loss of control over where the bar is placed in the power curve often called "going out of the groove". When I refer to explosive barbell movements, I think mostly of explosive eccentric. Although olympic lifters often have a fast but controlled concentric too, but not as common. Usually when in the gym its recommended to have a fast as possible eccentric to your movements, and with practice you can do this with complete control. The idea along with low rep training trains the stronger fast twitch muscle fibers.
Just to add real quick, that is an interesting theory you bring up about no reward and only risk, I guess it depends on the lifter though. If you can truly go into a gym with absolutely no competitive attitude and very little drive to achieve results, maybe slow and controlled movements can get you somewhere. In the real world, you are training with your buddy, and you wanna beat his lifts. You don't want to be lifting the same ol' weights year in and year out, because you will get no progress. I see it happen all the time in the gym, same guys lifting the same weights with the same bodies for years and years. :(
Perhaps you may be correct though, I'm sure someone out there has gotten big and strong doing like, 8 second eccentrics, but going to be rare, and it probably took a whole lot longer.
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Actually I think we are talking about the same thing. A controlled exercise is one that is performed in perfect form taking 4 sec positive(concentric), 2 sec static, 4 sec neg(eccentric). When sloppy form is used the weight isn’t being lifted with a constant speed of motion. The changing of speed throughout the motion creates very high forces(f=m.a), and thus increase the risk of injury. Using a fast eccentric movement is especially dangerous because you’re literally dropping the weight and catching it at the bottom.
You are right, different muscular fibers do require different training regimens. Fast twitch react best to low rep sets(4-7reps), slow twitch to high reps sets (12-20). However every person has a mix of fast and slow twitch fibers. If you are blessed with a higher than usual percentage fast twitch fiber in your biceps muscle than that muscle will be able generate much more force. It would however tire very quickly. How much force you can actually use from this muscle is determent by the leverage of the elbow. With the same muscular strength you can curl more with short forearms than with lang.
Competitive weightlifters are almost always blessed with very high percentage of fast twitch fibers in most of their muscles and have good leverage. They respond very well to very low rep max out lifts. Most people have far less fast twitch fiber and should use higher reps, or ignore a very large part of their muscle, the slow twitch fibers, and have poor results.
I’m actually very competitive and train like it. Let me describe a good set(medium fast twitch muscle) rep 1-2 Very light could throw the weight but move it slowly 3-4 harder could move fairly fast but move slow 5-7 hard can only move the weight slow 8 all out effort very slow 9 all out effort very slow hit failure but keep giving everything you have to hold the weight. 10 buddy helps just enough to lift the weight. Hold at full contraction until you can no longer hold it then lower as slow as you can constantly trying to reverse its direction. The last few reps are slow and controlled but only because the muscle is weakened by the previous reps. Initiating maximum muscular force feels VERY explosive you give it all but the resulting movements is not.
I have trained with a few people and all of them grew rapidly and got strong very fast when training as described above. However most quit because they could not take working that hard, hitting true momentary muscular failure(few can). As you grow bigger and stronger you must feed a bigger muscle mass using more energy making it even harder.
Unfortunately I’m always much stronger than my training partners making it harder to motivate. I am however very intrigued by those very heavy deadlifts described here. I can do 6x 245 lbs witch seem low but these are done after 7 exercises to failure without any rest between sets so I can probably do a bit more fresh. Also I know I can hit more if I use less perfect form. Gonna move this exercise a bit forward in my work out and do a few max out reps every workout for a few weeks see what happens to the poundage. Will not sacrifice good form!
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haha sweet deal man! Go at it!
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forgot to mention those figures were stiff legged deadlifts. Regular deadlifts will be heavier. will do regjulars for now.
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forgot to mention those figures were stiff legged deadlifts. Regular deadlifts will be heavier. will do regjulars for now.
if ur good at deads start doing cleans
when good at that start snatches :)
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if ur good at deads start doing cleans
when good at that start snatches :)
I have little interest in doing olympic style lifting. Will focus on deadlifts, squats, standing presses.
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Worked out today
moved deadlift
previous workouts: squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, pulldowns, standing press, deadlift.
This workout: squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, deadlift, biceps, standing press
Deadlifted 2 x 375 lbs
Will start with 400-420lbs next time. Can't wait. Have a lot of fast twitch fibers is most muscular structures so this very brief very hard exercise should do something..
Not to happy with the order of exercises though I had the perfect order to hit every excercise very hard without rest in btween.
But my deadlift performance suffered from this order, because my system as a whole was already very much drained when starting the deadlifts.
Have to give this some serious thoughts....
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Worked out today
moved deadlift
previous workouts: squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, pulldowns, standing press, deadlift.
This workout: squat, leg press, calf raises, machine pullover, machine dips, deadlift, biceps, standing press
Deadlifted 2 x 375 lbs
Will start with 400-420lbs next time. Can't wait. Have a lot of fast twitch fibers is most muscular structures so this very brief very hard exercise should do something..
Not to happy with the order of exercises though I had the perfect order to hit every excercise very hard without rest in btween.
But my deadlift performance suffered from this order, because my system as a whole was already very much drained when starting the deadlifts.
Have to give this some serious thoughts....
I really like your workout style and I am following similar program. I am now doing sets of 2 so that I can just have 2 really heavy sets and it is really helping me put on strength and size. Nobody ever said we had to stick to 3 or 4 sets of the same exercise and I sometimes think it is counter intuitive because you exhaust yourself on one exercise and dont have energy for the others. My philosophy is lift very heavy for 1 or 2 sets and move on to the next exercise.
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I really like your workout style and I am following similar program. I am now doing sets of 2 so that I can just have 2 really heavy sets and it is really helping me put on strength and size. Nobody ever said we had to stick to 3 or 4 sets of the same exercise and I sometimes think it is counter intuitive because you exhaust yourself on one exercise and don't have energy for the others. My philosophy is lift very heavy for 1 or 2 sets and move on to the next exercise.
I never do more than 1 set. 1 set to utter muscular failure is all it takes to stimulate(note stimulate not produce) growth. A second set will not stimulate more growth. That is, if the first set was continued to actual muscular failure which very, very few people seem to be able to do. 1 set of proper squats makes me breath like I've just run a marathon and my heart rat is always 170+ after that 1 set. No matter how good your cardiovascular condition is a set involving a large muscular mass(squats, deadlifts, pullovers, dips) to utter failure will always put your heart rate in the high figures.
A second set will just stress your recover ability more, therefor recovery takes longer but growth will be the same. At least if given enough recovery time, otherwise results will actually be less. After all one must first fully recover before growth even begins.
"Everything has a price, and everything has a value…if the price paid by many trainees is really the required price, then the results are simply not worth it. But in fact, the actual price required for the production of maximum possible results from exercise is quite low…literally must be low.
Eventually, this will be understood by almost everybody…but in the meantime, millions of people are wasting billions of hours of training time, while doing much more in the way of preventing the results than they are in the direction of producing results. "
Arthur Jones on permitting growth.
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The only real paleo exercise:
(http://hunter-gatherer.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/500/First%20Photo%20of%20Hawaiian%20Surfer.jpg)
Surfing :)
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how about: fighting, fucking, hunting, butchering, making fire, building a shelter, moving your family, defending yourself against brown bear......
seems pretty paleo to me! ;)
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The only real paleo exercise:
(http://hunter-gatherer.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/500/First%20Photo%20of%20Hawaiian%20Surfer.jpg)
Surfing :)
Been surfing a heap lately. Don't count it as excercise...for some reason.
Catch Bell's?
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Catch Bell's?
Yup, parko ripped the bag out of that place! :)
Its weird surfing doesn't feel like exercising but ever since I've surfing on a daily basis I've had a pretty significant increase in muscle mass and it makes me feel extremely ripped.
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This would be my top 3:
1. Sitting down exercises – Sitting down has been considered as one of the most effective exercises for obese people. This is also considered as one of the safest exercises. For overweight people or obese people, you can opt to do sitting up and down exercises that are effective for you. This type of exercise can actually help in building basic muscle strength and lessening fat production. While you are sitting down on your chair, you can do various arm movements and arm raises, you can do leg lifting and back bending or body leaning. These are gentle exercises that will prepare your obese body to do strenuous exercises in the future.
2. Walking exercises – Walking exercises is one of the most common exercises too for obese people. It is best recommended that you do short or long walks for at least thirty minutes every day. If you cannot tolerate doing a thirty-minute walk, then you can adjust it according to your capabilities. You should make sure that you keep yourself comfortable as much as possible. Consider wearing comfortable shoes when walking. It will greatly affect your activity for the day. Wear something that is not too tight and not too loose. You should always bring water with you as to replenish all fluids lost due to sweats. This will keep you hydrated. Always remember to take several breaks so as not to overwhelm your body.
3. Swimming exercises – Swimming exercises are also one of the most effective exercises recommended for obese people. This can be a great alternative for some exercises or activities. Remember that water allows you to feel lesser loads from your body because you become lighter when you are in the water. It actually allows you to get rid of more serious strains and injuries as well. You can do all strokes in the pool and you can move every single part of your body. You can do butterfly stroke, breast stroke, or the freestyle. You can do whatever you wish to do in the water.
From: http://www.paleodietbest.com/exercises/effective-exercises-for-the-heavy/