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Messages - RawZi

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501
General Discussion / Re: Raw paleo breastfeeding?
« on: August 02, 2011, 05:35:13 pm »
e coli, salmonella scare we have been taught. It makes sense to me that it would be the healthiest for my child to be fed breast milk from a raw meat eating mother

    Hi Ron.  I think I got salmonella or something once or twice while breastfeeding my son.  Both mine and his stomachs were messed up for a few days.  I had to switch him over to cultured rice mylk for a few days (it's all I could get than he could keep down).  My milk was upsetting his stomach.  I think it was good though, I think I made immunities to it for him too.  I know boxed formula never would.  I'd say just breastfeed.  Let her change at her pace, with the goal in mind.  Take good care of baby, love him/her, pay attention, be responsive as things come up but not over responsive ... he/she will have both of you, I think it will be fine.  I'm sure my son's father never even noticed when he got sick. 

502
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Braaaaains
« on: August 02, 2011, 09:01:11 am »
feeling on freezing vs. fresh meats both in terms of your own experience and your intellectual opinion on the "rumors" about frozen meat being so inferior

    If my flesh freezes, it gets numb, it feels burnt, it stings etc.  Frozen meat tends to feel a little gushier, yuck.  Test it out.  Make high meat from fresh and frozen.  Look at it.  Test it on your dogs.  Dogs would love high meat anyway.  The local cats here like it.

503
Raw Weston Price / Re: Bacteria - from site Realmilk.com
« on: August 02, 2011, 08:57:03 am »
    I always wanted to know where everything came from.  The above quote is from "Remarks delivered at the Third International Raw Milk Symposium, May 7, 2011, Bloomington, Minnesota."  Fear begets fear, greed begets greed, knowledge begets knowledge, good health begets good health, killing bacteria begets having to kill more bacteria.  Don't know where that all came from, but it sounds ok I guess.

504
Raw Weston Price / Bacteria - from site Realmilk.com
« on: August 02, 2011, 06:05:34 am »
Quote
The world is filled with bacteria. They are on our skin and in our digestive system. They are everywhere. Bacteria are absolutely essential to our development, our ongoing nutrition and our health. Bacteria are not determined to make us sick, they are just looking for a place to grow and divide. Here are some key facts about bacteria:

  • Bacteria outnumber people.
  • They were here long before us.
  • They will be here long after us.
  • They dominate the diverse bio-culture of the world.
  • Our existence is integrated with that of bacteria.
  • All the bacteria in our world today have succeeded over a long period of history to find nice places to grow and divide. When we came along, a
    small number of them found that humans have some nice places wherein to grow and divide.

The bacteria that live inside and on human beings either just co-exist with us, or we have actually learned to use their presence to our advantage.

A surprisingly small number of those bacteria may cause side effects (collateral damage) when they grow and multiply.

In the whole world, there are hundreds of thousands of different kinds of bacteria, and a million trillion trillion individual bacteria. Of those bacteria that live on and inside human beings, there are hundreds of different kinds. In fact, there are more bacteria on and in our bodies than we have cells of our own.

The vast majority of these bacteria—hundreds of kinds—are beneficial. And how many kinds of bacteria might make people sick? The answer is surprising: only a couple of dozen. And only some of these actually cause illness.

The official naming system for bacteria gives the genus and species. For example with Listeria monocytogenes, Listeria is the genus and monocytogenes is the species. However there is abundant diversity within these officially named categories in the form of subtypes. There are different categories of subtypes: serotypes, genotypes, strains, forms, serovars, virotypes, varieties and isolates. For example, the highly publicized form of Escherichia coli (remember nearly all forms are benign) is Escherichia coli O157:H7. This expanded name says: the genus is Escherichia, the species is coli, and within the category of O subtypes of the species coli it is number 157, and within the category of H subtypes it is number 7.

All bacteria named with genus and species have subtypes!

The Myth of the Risk Mongers

A critical myth perpetuated by the risk mongers is that all of the subtypes in a named (genus and species) of bacteria are the same. This is how the myth works. If there is disease in some animal or man and the laboratory identifies the cause as a certain genus and species, then that makes it a "pathogen" and any and all bacteria of that genus and species cause disease. They want judges, legislators, journalists and the public to believe that the genus and species is a bad bug and must be killed. Thus, goes their logic, since one subtype of E. coli can make people very sick, then all subtypes of E. coli are pathogens and cannot be tolerated.

Yet, thousands of researchers, hundreds of books and thousands of published articles in scientific journals, all recognize the scientific fact that just because a particular subtype of a bacteria species is pathogenic does not mean that the whole species is pathogenic.

The risk mongers understand that their horror stories crumble in the face of truth, scientific facts and reality. So they keep repeating this myth to journalists, legislators and judges. Every time they say anything about possible illness, they repeat this myth. Some even imply that all bacteria are bad.

The Big Four

Let's now take a brief look at each of the four dreaded "pathogens" that cause most foodborne illness—Campylobacter jejuni, Shiga Toxin producing E. coli (E. coli O157:H7), Listeria monocytogenes and Salmonella spp. (spp. Indicates that we are talking about the whole genus of Salmonella, not just one species.)

For each one, we need to know the following:

Where do they like to grow?
What is the most common source?
What is the most common reservoir?
Factors that increase potential risk to raw milk drinkers;
Factors that decrease potential risk to raw milk drinkers;
Overall human public health impact from each pathogen;
The specific public health impact from each pathogen associated with drinking milk raw.
Campylobacter Jejuni

The most common pathogen currently associated with raw milk outbreaks is Campylobacter jejuni. The virulent forms of Campylobacter jejuni can cause serious diarrhea in humans.

Campylobacter jejuni grows only inside living animal cells. The most common source is the intestinal tract of poultry. Infected chickens are not sick, but they are carriers of the organism in their feces and on meat contaminated with feces. The most common reservoir is water contaminated from poultry manure. People with diarrhea caused by Campylobacter jejuni shed extremely high concentrations of the virulent bacteria in their stools.

Ironically, the potential risk is increased with raw milk that is too fresh. Over time, the antimicrobial components of raw milk will kill Campylobacter jejuni, so—any potential risk diminishes as the milk ages under refrigeration. Longer storage time and exposure of the milk to air decrease the risk to raw milk drinkers. Likewise keeping infected poultry and people that carry campylobacter away from milk handling areas will reduce the risk.

Campylobacter is the second most common cause of all human foodborne illness. The illness usually goes away without treatment after a bout of unpleasant diarrhea, but there can be severe complications in rare cases.

As for the specific public health impact of drinking raw milk, the Centers of Disease Control (CDC) estimates an annual average of more than eight hundred thousand (845,024) people in the U.S. have domestically acquired diarrhea caused by food contaminated with Campylobacter spp.1 an annual average of 34 Campylobacter jejuni illnesses have been attributed to drinking raw milk.2

Shiga Toxin-Producing E. Coli (E. Coli O157:H7)

This pathogen grows in the intestinal tract of warm blooded animals. The most common source is fecal matter of infected humans. The most common reservoir is cows that are shedding colonized virulent subtypes.

Factors that increase the risk to raw milk drinkers include dairy animals contaminated with feces from high-shedding animals and milk handlers shedding during and after infection.

Factors that decrease the risk to humans include closed herds, managing dairy herds to minimize the spread of bacteria spread from colonized animals, and keeping people that are shedding away from milk processing and herds.

The overall human public health impact of E coli O157:H7 is small but highly publicized because of a rare side effect called hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS).

As for the specific public health impact of drinking raw milk, CDC estimates an annual average of more than sixty-three thousand (63,153) people in the U.S. had domestically acquired diarrhea caused by food contaminated with E.coli O157:H7:1 an annual average of five were attributed to drinking raw milk.2

Listeria Monocytogenes

Listeria monocytogenes (often abbreviated to L. mono.) is the most serious and deadly of the contemporary foodborne pathogens. Yet it is also ubiquitous in our environment. Scientists actually know a lot about the virulence factors that are necessary before specific virulent subtypes of Listeria monocytogenes are able to cause disease.

Listeria monocytogenes can alternate between two growing modes: it grows within animal cells or it can switch to growing in decomposing plant materials. Listeriosis is a significant health problem in domestic animals. The most common sources are poorly managed silage; amniotic fluid, placenta and fetal tissues from abortions resulting from infection in cows; and meat processing plants and their equipment.

The most common reservoir is the environment, particularly if cool, wet and undisturbed. Listeria monocytogenes is present as well in our homes and on our bodies.

The public ingests listeria on a regular basis without becoming ill. You must ingest huge numbers of a virulent strain of Listeria monocytogenes to cause gastroenteritis.

Those who wish to ban all milk that is not pasteurized use the horrors (human listeriosis) of systemic disease caused by Listeria monocytogenes to support their cause. They consistently broadcast the high mortality rates from L. mono and focus on the susceptibility of pregnant women, fetuses, newborns and the elderly. However, Listeria monocytogenes has never been a significant public health risk from drinking fresh raw milk. Because of the long processing times and storage conditions, there have been rare outbreaks in which cheeses have been associated with listeriosis cases. This is a risk with cheeses prepared from both raw and pasteurized milk.

The most serious public health risk due to Listeria monocytogenes, comes from contaminated ready-to eat processed foods, particularly meats.

CDC estimates an annual average of fifteen hundred (1,591) people in the U.S. develop systemic infection caused by food contaminated with Listeria monocytogenes;1 there have been no cases attributed to drinking raw milk in the last twelve years.2

Salmonella Spp

Our final pathogen is Salmonella spp. It likes to grow inside animal cells as well as in food and feed with high protein content, especially when stored warm.

The most common source is infected humans and animals, as well as contaminated animal feeds and re-warmed foods. The most common reservoir is contaminated water.

Inadequate refrigeration of raw milk increases the risk to consumers; eliminating sources of salmonella decreases the risk.

As for the overall human public health impact, salmonella is the most common foodborne illness. CDC estimates an average of more than one million (1,027,561) people in the U.S. had domestically acquired diarrhea caused by food contaminated with salmonella1—an annual average of three of these cases were attributed to drinking raw milk.2

Relative Risk of Drinking Raw Milk.

First a personal note. I have performed the calculations based on national highway safety data and the data on foodborne illness attributed to drinking raw milk. It can be shown that I have a greater risk of being injured in the car driving to the farm to obtain milk for myself and my wife than becoming ill from the fresh unprocessed whole milk. And we drink a lot of that delicious and healthy milk every day.

Now, let's look at the risk of consuming raw milk compared to other foods. I have combed all available information including scholarly articles, reviews of foodborne illnesses, media reports, public health announcements, listings of outbreaks compiled by numerous government agencies, special interest groups and litigation lawyers and found the following data on total annual illnesses attributed to raw milk from 1999 through March 2011, a period of twelve years, as shown in Figure 1.2

For the period, there were 502 cases of illness, for an average of 42 per year. It is important to note that these illnesses were attributed to raw milk in the opinion of the reporting agencies. I have not excluded any illnesses from these numbers based on my professional judgment of the strength of the linkage reported. They include totals, both "confirmed" and "presumed" cases.

For comparison for those who insist on published data in peer reviewed journals, another set of data was compiled by Stephen P. Oliver and others entitled "Food Safety Hazards Associated with Consumption of Raw milk, published in Foodborne Pathogens and Disease.3 Oliver looked at illnesses attributed to raw milk over a nine-year period, 2000 to 2008, as shown in Figure 2. The numbers listed are those attributed to drinking fluid milk, and do not include illnesses attributed to other processed dairy products.

Ironically, Oliver and his team come up with a lower total than I did—246 cases over nine years, for an average of 27 cases per year. As you can see, there is no pattern for the frequency of illness attributed to drinking raw milk in either Figure 1 or Figure 2. With the exception of the more likely occurrence of Campylobacter jejuni illness and the absence of illness from listeria, the presumed causative organism and the frequency of illness is sporadic.

Figure 3 shows the annual incidence of foodborne illness confirmed for each of the four pathogens. Figure 4 shows illnesses confirmed for each of the four pathogens attributed to foodborne illness that might be expected among raw milk drinkers.

The numbers for illness from all food sources is data from a U.S. government report called Healthy People 2020.4 The report was finalized in December 2010 out of a collaboration of all health and food agencies of the federal government, with private sector input. In the section on food safety of this report, data is given for "baseline" 2010. The baseline in the report is given as a rate per one hundred thousand people in the U.S. In the graphs, the tall bars are totals attributed to "all foods" based on these rates using 2010 census population data. Critics of all data showing low numbers of people ill from drinking raw milk comment that since there are so few people drinking raw milk, the numbers only appear small. To counter this assumption, the numbers used in Figure 4 are also calculated using the 2010 Census and the Healthy People 2020 baseline risk of illness from all foods.

To construct Figure 4, we need to know the number of raw milk drinkers in the U.S. Fortunately, this data is available to us, and the number is surprisingly large. According to a very large telephone survey by FoodNet, carried out in 2007, 3.04 percent of the population consumes raw milk or about 9.4 million people based on 2010 census.5 This number is certainly larger today as raw milk is gaining in popularity; however, we can be conservative and use the percentage in 2007 from the phone survey of 9.4 million Americans consuming unpasteurized (raw) milk for the year 2010.

While it is true that only a minority drink raw milk, Figure 4 still shows the striking comparison between illness from all foods, and the incredibly small numbers attributed to drinking raw milk. In this graph I made the assumption that the risk of illness from all food sources was the same for people drinking raw milk. I personally suspect that raw milk drinkers as a whole are healthier and more immune than the general public, but the Healthy People 2020 did not actually make a calculation for the subset of the population that drinks raw milk.

As you can see, the number of illnesses from raw milk is very low compared to illnesses from other causes, both for all consumers and for raw milk consumers.

Illnesses Per Person

Now, let's look at the illnesses per person among the whole population and the population of raw milk drinkers. That data showing illnesses come from a 2011 publication compiled by a team of researchers at the CDC FoodNet Surveillance Center. The paper, by Elaine Scallan and others, is entitled "Foodborne Illness Acquired in the United States—Major Pathogens" and was published in Emerging Infectious Diseases.6 The model does include a factor for unreported illnesses, but it revised downward the figure of 78 million foodborne illnesses per year that government agencies have been using in the past. Instead the report estimates that 48 million Americans are sickened each year from all agents, including viruses, bacteria and toxins, in all foods. That is one out of every six people. The numbers given in the report are based on their most up-to-date information which was for the year 2008. Their data:

Total diarrheal episodes annually USA

217,973,045

Total foodborne illnesses annually USA

48,000,000

Annual confirmed foodborne infections from the four "pathogens" (all foods)

1,937,561

Average number of illnesses attributed to consuming raw milk (Dr. Beals, 1999–2011)2

42

Average number of illnesses attributed to consuming raw milk (Drs. Oliver and others, 2000–2008)3

27

Who's Irresponsible?

From the perspective of a national public health professional looking at an estimated total of 48 million foodborne illnesses each year;6 or from the perspective of a healthcare professional looking at a total of 90,771 (data from Healthy People 20204) confirmed bacterial foodborne infections each year (about 0.2 percent), there is no rational justification to focus national attention on raw milk, which may be associated with an average of 42 illnesses maximum among the more than nine million people (about 0.0005 percent) who have chosen to drink milk in its fresh unprocessed form.

Using this average of 42 illnesses per year, we can show, using government figures, that you are about 35,000 times more likely to become ill from other foods than you are from raw milk.

Calculations on Relative Amounts of Illness from Foods for persons Drinking Raw Milk

It is irresponsible for a senior national government administrator to testify that because of those forty-two people, raw milk is inherently hazardous, parents should not be allowed to decide which foods they serve their children and milk should be banned across the nation unless it has been pasteurized.

SIDEBARS

Source Versus Reservoir


Another of the critical myths perpetuated by those who promote fear is that bacteria grow remarkably fast. The most common example used is the statement that E. coli multiplies every 20 minutes; suggesting that this is how all bacteria behave. The implication is that even if there is only a single bacterium, it will rapidly multiply producing alarmingly high numbers to spread infection. Yes, in a laboratory you can get E. coli to multiply that quickly if you put it in its most favorable environment, with abundance of all the desired nutrients, at the optimal temperature for growth (99 degrees F) and the right mixtures of gases. But just for comparison, Listeria monocytogenes divides once every fifteen to thirty-four hours at refrigerator temperatures in packaged meat slices. For the purposes of this discussion, bacteria can multiply, or if conditions are not favorable, they will diminish in numbers. So experiments either show increasing or decreasing numbers over time. In publications they may say "growing" to mean multiplying, and "surviving" to mean diminishing in numbers.

And for the purposes of this discussion, a "source" is a location that has conditions under which the specific virulent bacteria significantly increase in numbers. A "reservoir" is a location in which a specific virulent bacteria is able to survive for some time or has conditions to enable very limited multiplication.

Gastrointestinal Illness

As a physician, I am dedicated to understanding, preventing and minimizing the impact of disease. Gastroenteritis has a real personal impact. Frequent trips to the bathroom, often with terrible abdominal pain, inability to go about your daily activities, lasting for days, is serious. The fortunately rare complications that can occur periodically with the forms of gastroenteritis mentioned here can be horrific and have a devastating impact on individuals and their families. In no way do I wish to trivialize the personal impact of these illnesses. However, all activities have risk. Consumption of any food has some risk of illness or adverse reaction. And the consequence of basing public policy on horrific personal experiences is that all foods will ultimately be banned, and we will not be able to participate in any activity.

REFERENCES

Scallan E, Hoekstra RM, Angulo FJ, Tauxe RV, Widdowson M-A, Roy SL, et al. Foodborne illness acquired in the United States—major pathogens. Emerg Infect Dis. 2011 Jan. Table 2 cdc.gov/EID/content/17/1/pdfs/09-1101p1.pdf

Average annual illnesses attributed to drinking raw milk are from a comprehensive database of outbreaks attributed to raw milk started in Jan. 1, 1999. This database includes all incidents that have been included in any publication or review concerning raw milk outbreaks, newspaper reports, press releases, attorney webpages, lists compiled by interested groups and state and federal agencies as well as presentations at conferences or on TV. The numbers listed here are obtained from this dynamic database as of March 25, 2011. Additional incidents and updated information are being added to this database on an ongoing fashion. In this discussion the annual averages for each "pathogen" include all illnesses (confirmed and presumptive) reported in summary or final reports that have been made public. The annual average numbers of illness include only cases that occurred in the USA and were attributed to drinking raw milk that was produced specifically for consumption by people in the fresh unprocessed form. The numbers do not include cases attributed to dairy products other than fluid whole milk. I did not make a personal judgment to determine if the cases were proven to be caused by virulent pathogens in the milk. Attribution used in calculating the annual averages is solely at the determination of the reporting agency that made the final report. It should be noted that since the database is ongoing; the numbers will change at future points in time because new incidents are added as they surface, and information is continuing to be added to incidents already included in the database.

Stephen P. Oliver and others entitled "Food Safety Hazards Associated with Consumption of Raw milk, published in Foodborne Pathogens and Disease. Volume 6, Number 7, 2009.

Healthy People 2020.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Foodborne Active Surveillance Network (FoodNet) Population Survey Atlas of Exposures. Atlanta, Georgia: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2006-2007. cdc.gov/foodnet/surveys/FoodNetExposureAtlas0607_508.pdf

Scallan E, Hoekstra RM, Angulo FJ, Tauxe RV, Widdowson M-A, Roy SL, et al. Foodborne illness acquired in the United States—major pathogens. Emerg Infect Dis. 2011 Jan. Table 2 cdc.gov/EID/content/17/1/pdfs/09-1101p1.pdf

About the Author

Ted Beals, MS, MD, is retired from the University of Michigan Medical School and Veterans Administration Health Administration. A pathologist

505
Off Topic / Re: Ants
« on: August 02, 2011, 05:15:13 am »
    What about eating the ants along with the honey?

    Isn't cinnamon a skin and eye irritant?  I might be concerned if you have dogs and cats.

506
Welcoming Committee / Re: I think I have posted everywhere BUT here!
« on: August 02, 2011, 04:30:28 am »
    You're welcome Dorothy.

    I slept well as a vegan the first seventeen years of it.  Prior to vegan I did not sleep, well, rarely ever and short and could not nap no matter what and could never fall back asleep no matter how much I needed it once woken up.  After being vegan more than seventeen years my sleep went completely haywire.  Yes, this diet takes care of that.  I hope it helps your husband's sleep.  You're lucky.  You need no support sleeping.  I think most of the world is like that, I have the odd luck there.  I think my son tends to be like me.  It took absolute quite and absolute dark etc for him to fall asleep even as three year old.

    Being sattvic is fine, if it's right for you, in my opinion.  Sattvic literally means reality, written in the original Sanskrit it's ??????.  I just think everything can need balance to be reality.    

edit: oops the sanskrit comes out as smileys

507
Welcoming Committee / Re: I think I have posted everywhere BUT here!
« on: August 01, 2011, 12:33:07 pm »
    Welcome :) Dorothy! 

    The energy is different.  I know what you mean by jumping out of your skin.  I felt like that sometimes with raw vegan, and it was hard.  I can tell you I feel a lot more stable strong energy with the RAFs.  It was the first thing I noticed, switching from very long time vegan to raw cultured grass fed butter.  I was just thinking too before I saw your post how sleep is so much more efficient, deep, restful, repairing and short with eating raw meat.  It's the best sleeping pill possible, I think, as I never was into that, but it works better than other foods (for me).

508
Suggestion Box / Re: Tribal hierachy
« on: August 01, 2011, 12:23:37 pm »
- raw milk is illegal to sell in stores in Texas. I buy milk once a month and make my own fermented quark cheese, butter and whey. I cannot drink even the great quality milk I get raw. I have to ferment the dairy to make it digestible and healthy for us.

    The dairy is illegal here too.  We make our own butter, and yes, it too tastes so much better than store bought, depending on the source of the milk.

509
Suggestion Box / Re: Tribal hierachy
« on: August 01, 2011, 08:31:34 am »
One of the last remaining rules of the house is that no one eats a species that is a member of the family - so no one gets to eat chickens here. ...

But hey - someone told me just today that the store we shop at just started to carry grass-fed. So, I think we'll be ok.  ;)

    Yes, fat content varies depending on the sun and weather and age of the calves etc, just like human milk I gather.  Are you sure you need as much fat in summer?  Maybe instead of butter in Summer you can drink the milk straight.

    I've never eaten a pet either, except I guess some chicken from my babysitter when I was a toddler.  You need some hunter neighbors I think!  Hey, maybe I'm not meant to hunt with experienced hunters, as it's never happened yet.  If you ever want to bumble around hunting with someone who has no idea how, let me know. 

    I tried grass fed butter from the store.  I will not do that one myself again, sorry, yeck.  Took me a long time to heal from that one.  Maybe your store has raw or your body is less reactive.

510
Welcoming Committee / Re: Hello Everyone
« on: August 01, 2011, 08:24:22 am »
    Hi Ronnie, welcome back to the real world where people eat real food, not plasticized stuff.  Good to have you back!  Looking forward to seeing more of your posts soon, and exchanging ideas.

511
General Discussion / Re: Yolk color
« on: August 01, 2011, 08:19:52 am »
No other seeds or grain? They must have fertile land where their chickens have room to forage and can catch enough bugs and eat enough weeds and naturally occurring seeds - which is perfect.

    The feed has other seeds in it.  Like I said, the chickens avoid it, they prefer picking through the pasture and visiting and playing with the other animals.  They have maybe three dozen chickens and about five acres very lush land.  They do give the chickens sour raw A2 milk too in addition to what we just mentioned, but not all the time.  I'm drinking a bowl of them now with Really Raw honey.

512
Health / Re: weight training
« on: August 01, 2011, 07:57:35 am »
    Ricky, you're a physical therapist?

513
Welcoming Committee / Re: Hey Y'all
« on: August 01, 2011, 07:54:06 am »
    Hi Oscar, welcome, good to meet a new person into such healthful foods!

514
General Discussion / Re: Yolk color
« on: August 01, 2011, 07:41:03 am »
    I visit the chickens every other day, whatever hour I show up, they're mostly in the grassy field where they've jumped the fence to, from where they have feed and shelter.  The feed is mostly alfalfa and has absolutely no soy.  I get to visit the hens as close as possible, believe me, I can do anything with them.  There's no poopiness.  The chicks are beautiful.  Their roosters are very fertile too (is that the right word?).  The family that put the chickens up are pretty much WAP style, if not in name, then in practice.  They don't wax any of the shells.  The wax refers to other places I don't use.  They don't wash my eggs.  They do everything by hand.  They wipe my eggs with a dampened cloth.  I don't know if they have a working well.  They may be dampening it with well water or city water, I have to ask.  At least I have some good luck.  It takes so much for me to get anywhere.

515
General Discussion / Re: Yolk color
« on: August 01, 2011, 06:59:22 am »
If you can get unrefrigerated eggs with the natural bloom still on you wouldn't believe the difference. 

    Is washing the bloom off only bad because they put soy wax on then?  Where I get eggs they always set enough aside for me never refrigerated, although they may bring them into their air conditioned house.  They don't wash mine, but they do wipe the bloom off.  I've told them not to do that last part.  They adamantly and immediately refuse that request.  They say they have too.  Maybe they're afraid of inspectors?

516
Suggestion Box / Re: Tribal hierachy
« on: August 01, 2011, 06:54:42 am »
Ohhhhh. Just numbers. Then your stars just stopped being so scary!  :D  Now I know that I don't really have to trap or hunt anything.

Thanks Zi.

    Nope you don't.  You can buy the meat wherever great quality raw meat is sold.  You could slaughter one of your chickens occasionally in the future, don't have to.  You can trade with neighbors if they slaughter on their own family farm, you give them eggs or herbs or worms or whatever.  No hard and fast rules that I know of like that.  Quite a number here don't set traps in the woods (nor mouse traps) nor do quite a number hunt, I haven't myself yet, so obviously ... Thanks for the respectful question though. :)

517
Display Your Culinary Creations / Re: Fatty roadkill raccoon
« on: August 01, 2011, 06:46:17 am »
    Welcome Patryk. I see you're brand new to the forum.  How long have you been eating roadkill?  The fat does look nice.  How do you drink the milk? Do you pour it into something?  I haven't tried roadkill, yet.

518
    Her boyfriend opened his big mouth and told the compensation board that he was going at it so hard and she was on her back and he knocked the lit fixture on to her face.  I don't know how much they paid him to do any of that, but at this point he's responsible to pay her compensation, no?

519
Suggestion Box / Re: Tribal hierachy
« on: July 29, 2011, 05:26:01 pm »
Forager, egg thief, gatherer or a fisherwoman maybe but keep me away from being a mammoth hunter please - sounds way too scary ...

Of course this is all great fun - but I do get the sense that those stars and labels are supposed to mean something and tell me who's alpha and beta etc so that I can properly roll over and show how submissive I am so I don't get hurt ... 

    I apologize if my stars sound scary.  Mostly I think the titles just mean how many posts each member has made here.

520
Raw Weston Price / Re: 100% grass-fed cheese
« on: July 28, 2011, 03:34:53 pm »
    If given the choice, I believe goats almost always choose forage over grass.  Latest one I've observed seems to love some purple leafed plants the best.

521
Hot Topics / Re: Eating cooked food akin to smoking??
« on: July 24, 2011, 08:16:26 pm »
Also when you cook food, you should eat it within a few hours because an important component of the food Ojas (Sanskrit word) dissipates after that. Reheated or cold cooked food fills the belly, but is poor nutritionally.

    I remember that from the Indian temple kitchens.

    I thought that.  You know about that tribe that only eats dairy (raw) all year round?  There are so many things from days of old we hear nothing about these days.  Yes, cooking vegetables, I mean steaming them, makes sense.  I just wrote somewhere else about steaming leaves.  They need their nutrients somewhere, and raw leaves?  We're not gorillas or goats.

522
Hot Topics / Re: Autism explained
« on: July 24, 2011, 08:11:19 pm »
Which flavour of sound therapy were they using?

    I met him and spoke with him about the atrocious acupuncture treatment and healing from it. Twas years ago, and I never went for the sound treatment.  I live far away now.  I assume he knew many.  Which flavour do you like or find works for you?

523
Off Topic / Re: Why did you give up Vegetarianism/Veganism?
« on: July 24, 2011, 08:04:56 pm »
Making suggestions on the web is of course fraught with danger as the likelihood of misinterpretation is higher.

    Both the suggester and the suggestee may misinterpret on the web.  It can be very important to be clear, if we want everyone to learn.

Laxatives and purgatives come in a wide variety of forms. Herbs is one. Some herbs sold in health food stores and therefore likely, but not necessarily self-prescribed, can be bad news, particularly if taken over a period of time as you discovered and as the expression one man's meat is another's poison... The Ayurvedic texts describe 600 from trees alone if my memory serves me. Taken in different forms

    Yeah, for me it was one small cup of prune juice once and no other day dose of it for a long time before or ever again after.  It released too many toxins in my colon that they sent me to a hematologist for a bone marrow biopsy.

If the issue has a drying component such as dry gassy, constipation, then the solution would involve one that is liquid and include more liquid and oils in the diet. That's why you do so well on raw meat. It is very liquid, slimy etc.

    Nope, oils don't help me at all.  I tried them.  They just burn me and make me freeze and a bunch of other unpleasant stuff.

My experience was that non-raw cheese was instant constipation. I used to be blissfully unaware that I was constipated chronically before I discovered Ayurveda. My diet was not great.

    I was vegan for a long time during that time.  As a matter of fact, around the few instances I ate cheese, I got no constipation or any stool change.

A castor "Plaster" is of course where you put a cloth soaked with castor oil on your belly or wherever you want it and then put a hot water bottle etc over that to allow the oil to penetrate the skin and make it into the affected area to help clean out the body. I observed someone use this system once. The person was not constipated in the dried out, hard sense. It was very a mild cleaning. I think that it was suggested by Edgar Cayce in one of his readings.

    Yes, I had to drink colorful root juices for several days prior.  I don't like nausea.  Never gonna do this again. Months of 24/7 nausea, if can be avoided, that I will do!  Raw butter on the primal diet seemed to absorb all my colon toxicity and clean it out safely without the toxins hurting me and in relatively very little time (less than a month).  He uses peanut oil for it?  I think maybe aajonus used to too, but now there's no good peanut oil on the market.

I have been told that colonic irrigations can be extremely drying to the interior of the colon due to the substances used. I do not mean to infer that this is true in your case. Ayurveda prescribes oils and nutrients as part of any Basti (enema) as well as a specific massage to prepare for the enema.

    The colonic series of three didn't even get anything out and couldn't really get much in. I was stopped up.  Drink warm water or put warm urine in a bulb syringe.  Works much better in this case.  Lightly steamed dark greens or raw blended standard organic green salad also works better for it.  Believe me, I had "real" bricks.

Typically but not always (depending on the person) in Ayurveda the castor is prescribed following a multi day buildup taking certain oils (generally ghee) first thing in the morning which slows hunger, lubricates the GI tract and softens any "stuff" that is collecting in the colon.

    Ghee clogs my ears.

There is a whole technique to taking Castor effectively which includes the preparation, timing, bath, diet for days before, during and after as well as preparations to take with the castor to make it more effective with less griping. I started to write it out and then realized what this might precipitate.

    I had no griping.  The colonic actually went well, I was very pleased.  Afterwards however made me nauseas for months.  I did her whole protocol for the colonic, it was nice.  Maybe it was problematic I left the "plaster" on longer than prescribed.  Also she liked silver nitrite, maybe I should have bought some.  RAFD works though, why should I go back to complication?  That's what I don't need and why I found this.  It gets expensive and sometimes hard to find and in the end it doesn't help the toughest cases enough.

BTW I hope I do not sound preachy as I am not intending to, just a further description of what I said. I certainly do not wish to minimize the depth of your discomfort. It's easy to sit in the gallery and be a know it all. That is not my intention. I am very aware that you went through a very uncomfortable period of time but the great news is that you figured out your answer. Others will learn from your story.

    Yes, too many years and time of being sicker than many people ever get.  If you don't let it kill you, then you learn some real lessons, it's how you get out the other side.  Wonderful clicking in your own brain, epiphanies and hard lessons, better than all the books and lessons, and I make it just for me.

Once again RPD seems to be the answer.

    Yes, like many others.  They go through so many illnesses of their own and health theories till they get to the ultimate that works best that they need.

524
I thought that pan-seared might be easiest for my husband to adjust to, but now I'm not so sure. I mean it was the closest to what he normally ate - yet it was different enough and tough enough that it wasn't exactly appealing to him.

Ground meat from the store - no way! No wonder you had nightmares.

    I only saw the steak was what you ate on this thread before that.  Of course a somewhat SAD dieter would feel more comfortable to go little by little tapering off cooking.  And it's nice you two can do it together.  You're a better "man" than me, Dorothy.  My man thinks it's healthier to sear meat than eat it raw.  He's a near vegan; because he incorporated raw cheese into his diet occasionally lately.  Maybe if I made meals like this one, he'd start eating meat again.

    Yes, from the store aajonus gets from when he's in that area, and he recommends them to clients and friends even if they are miles away.  Since then I hear he says get no meat pre-ground because they grind it all three times and that destroys nutrients.  I had some ground on a fresh machine one time rather than three, and I ate a few pounds in one night, and it made me feel well.  This one was from rather fibrous meat, so they made it edible for me (shank), as chewing on it makes me nauseas.  And no, none of the meat I was ever able to get in my mouth had added ammonia wash/rinse.  I did once try to eat some chicken that shouldn't have had disinfectant, but probably did.  I couldn't eat it and neither would my cats.  Probably many years ago I had a hamburger or bologna that was bleached.       

525
Hot Topics / Re: Autism explained
« on: July 24, 2011, 07:28:55 pm »
Personally I believe that someone out there has figured out or will figure out therapies using sound.

    Yes, there are people whose profession is sound therapy.  I met a very caring guy who does it.  I met him at an acupuncturist's office.  He wasn't working there.  Unfortunately this acupuncturist is one of those sadists, and worrisome.

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