State-sponsored eugenics is a bad idea, overall. The tendency of any government is to constantly bring in new laws and it would be in the State's interests to only have children which were genetically inclined to obey the State's laws. Libertarian eugenics, on the other hand, means that genetic improvement is relatively random, and favours the individual.

Your mention of preemies is apt. My point re eugenics is not just that going back to our caveman past in a genetic sense might be a good idea. It is that as our technology  advances, we will make it more and more possible for people with only slight physical and mental defects to breed who would not have been able to do so before. In the short-term, this is not such an issue. But, in the long-term, our descendants in the far future might well, as a  result,  all end up with myopia at birth, for example, along with multiple more serious conditions that modern science might easily be able to alleviate to a large extent, but not completely.

TD,
I hear you and that would be as I and you suggested, a slippery slope, but the devil is in the details...

Where do you draw the line? Who decides where and when the decision to cut the proverbial cord, to decide who will stay alive and so forth? These questions are questions of ethics and finances.

I heard a prediction back in the 1990's by one famous psychic that one of the great dilemmas in the new century would be deciding where to cut the cord. Whether you like psychics or not, is irrelevant because that dilemma is upon us now.

Let's read that quote in context:
The part that says "no mandatory federal vaccination laws exist" means that the US does not require vaccination.

Lets put that in the context of the real world.....

A woman has just gone through a exhausting experience lasting potentially many hours maybe involving surgery when suddenly someone takes the baby away and possibly asks for a signature.... maybe not. Some hospitals just say "sorry it's hospital policy" and then they haul the hapless kid off to be vaccinated for a disease that can only be transmitted through blood or sexual means. Hep B. This could be easily determined with the mother beforehand with a simple blood test without disturbing the child.

So that is what is called consent?

What about the Nuremberg trials where it was internationally decided that to be involved in medical events/trials required 'informed consent' on the part of the participant?

Informed consent means that you are advised of the possible upsides and downsides/reactions etc prior to participation.

How many times have you had your medical Miranda warnings read out to you? Maybe give some examples, not necessarily everything they told you, but just a precis would be fine...

You and everyone else have been physically assaulted and don't even know it. We could collectively sue these crooks into obscurity.

A Doctor cannot just stick her/his hand into you or a needle into you without consent. That is called assault. It is a violation of internationally agreed human rights. You cannot be even given an enama in Canada without signed consent and a trained accredited person doing it.

However these crooks are systematically trying to get around that by making it mandatory and they are very close to achieving it. That is what the big BS campaign in the media is all about. These are simply shills, who knowingly or unknowingly have been hired by big pharma to create propaganda.

If a person has a severe infection, then the virus/bacteria will be in their bloodstream, right?  If so, what's the difference between that and having dead virus/bacteria injected into the bloodstream?

Vaccinations do not just contain dead microbes.
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/different-types-vaccines

A baby does not have a complete immune system. It requires colostrum from mother's milk as well as Gawd only knows what else to solidify it. Basically we are tossed out of the womb when really have not developed sufficiently to survive.

Additionally I suspect that our non-raw diet has contributed to our innate weakness.

Also vaccines contain the most powerful neurotoxins available. (Aluminum and Mercury) They have not been tested as they are grandfathered in. The vaccine rules are something to behold. The more I hear the scarier they sound.

Also the single vaccines have been tested, but not the combinations which is what Peter Wakefield was saying seemed to be the problem. The vaccines that he was mainly concerned about, were rejected in Japan and Canada because of serious problems, but the UK government seemed to be OK with them and gave the "home team" vaccine company the green light and accepted the liability for them.

Also the "Lancet" magazine's publisher, just happened to be on the board of the "Home Team" vaccine manufacturer. Funny how "follow the money" works.

One idiot who was attacking PW has been suggesting giving 10,000 different vaccination in a jab. The whole media circus chasing after PW sounds much like the propaganda mill that "Confessions Of An Economic Hitman" talks about.

The story behind the mumps vaccination is absolutely stunning.

The whole medical system is in need of an overhaul. You get your license and then no more training required, except for classes held by the drug companies on their new wares.

In my business, every year and sometimes biannually (Depending on licenses etc) you have to prove your metal in a retest. Fail and you are unemployed. Written and flight (or simulator) testing, plus training on probably a dozen or more topics which must be all signed off.

Pilots are regulated by the Government. Doctors are self-regulated. Therein lies the problem, IMHO. The fox is looking after the henhouse.

I do not buy SB's notion that  various wild animal species affected by plagues are somehow "deficient". These beings are affected by survival of the fittest so are the best they can be.

Eugenics for humans maybe.... might be the way to go?

It's a slippery slope, but hunose. There is a whole section in the War museum in Ottawa Canada dealing with it and it is quite mind-blowing to read about the PPL who were for it.

Years ago in the beginning of my career I used to do air ambulance. Sometimes we would fly preemies or premature babies. It was like a contest or an ego trip for Doctors to see how ridiculously premature they could keep a baby alive. The poor kid might be a vegetable, but that wasn't important. The child would not be anywhere near their mothers for a very long time.

Fuck natural die-offs. The bubonic plague was a natural die-off.  You want to bring that back? ROFL

CK,
Might I draw your attention to the welcoming thread: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/welcoming-commitee/welcome-new-members!-please-read/
where it asks that PPL refrain from fowl (foul) language:

"It is understandable that heated exchanges can occur.  But please keep any fowl language or other pointed remarks at the ideas themselves and not the individuals who make them.  Continual disregard of these basic common guidelines will result in warnings and possible removal from the group."

You raise an interesting point in response to ST.

Fact is that Broda Barnes wrote a book http://www.brodabarnes.org/ "Hypothyroidism: The Unexpected Illness" back in 1976.

He explained that hypothyroidism (HT) was at that time probably at about 40% of the population and he anticipated that it would be in the 80% range by the turn of the century (2000) because mothers are usually the carrier and they pass it on so each subsequent generation are so inflicted.

In the past HT was kept in check because if you are HT you will die at birth or not long afterwards. It causes your internal temperature system to malfunction generally causing a decrease in body temperature which can range up to 4 degrees or more from normal. Almost always less or cooler.

Your body uses heat for a number of purposes. Fevers are the body's way of killing parasites. Cool temperature in the blood vessels will cause fats so adhere to the walls. Obviously heat is necessary for chemical reactions and flowing of liquids etc.

So a child born with a defective temperature gauge basically dies of infections. That is the reason for the uptick in lifespans since the early to mid 1900s. We have found that increased standards of living with more food, better housing, sanitation, etc as well as medical things like antibiotics have allowed us to make it through the childhood period unscathed or at least less scathed.

However the downside as Broda Barnes explained in that book as well as another of his books "Solved: The Riddle of Heart Attacks" is that heart disease will be the next epidemic, just like HT. His prediction has borne out.

After reading a number of books on HT by Stephen Langer and Mark Starr etc, the symptoms of HT are easy to spot. I see them in just about everybody of my generation as well as a lot of young PPL.

These PPL have all of these symptoms which can be somewhat treated with desiccated thyroid and or synthetic hormones like Synthroid and iodine and seaweed etc.

Health is not a simple one and one is two. We are currently setting up a situation where the whole population is becoming fragile.

It is not likely that we will give up interventions to affect our health. Problem is when someone tells me I gotta do what they want me to.

I really doubt vaccines injected into the bloodstream can have a large enough effect on gut flora to cause autism. It doesn't pass the bullshit test. 

Raw-al, Tyler and I are the sharpest minds on the subject of health and nutrition on this board. A great deal of our knowledge and skill in this area comes directly from taking ALL claims,  conventional/traditional/alternative or whatever, and sifting out the bullshit. We have, as a result, gotten very good at it. We've had lots of practice.

So you are basing this on your doubts.... I thought science was supposed to be the basis of statements.

Injecting two neurotoxins into an infant's blood vessels is not going to have an effect. Not having done any science on combining multiple doses of vaccine given simultaneously you think that magically there will be no effect?

Take the time to listen to the YTs before you type.

Of course I don't know the details,,, but children often are as healthy as their parents, especially at the time of conception and birth.  Look back when you're first child was born at the diet/health of you And your wife.  There might  be a clue there for you that you might have over looked.

Exactly and that is why the research of PPL like Andrew Wakefield is necessary to find out these details.

Listen to this;

February 10 at 6pm EDT to Listen Tune in
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/blakeradio or listen 914-338-0695
Or cut and paste the URL into your browser

AGAIN ON

Sunday  February 15 on RBN  at 8:06 pm EDT
Listen with your browser: http://republicbroadcasting.org/shoutcast/shoutcast.html

Listen with VLC or winAmp: http://216.240.133.177:2005/listen.pls

Listen by phone: 619-550-0901
Call-in number: 800-313-9443

This is from Dr. Jennifer Daniels

Sorry for harping on this but I just discovered that a grandchild had a turned eye - post vaccine, as Andrew Moulden suggested. His uncle had the same. No more vaccines for them.

There will never be truth in the media. That is obvious.

There is such a massive amount of money involved in this that the same companies that make the vaccines have long ago bought up the media outlets including the internet versions.

I can pick up a "free" magazine anywhere in Canada that all look the same (size and content) and all have the same stories. On one page you'll see a "study" that shows that [fill in the blank: on drug company propaganda dissing everything from raw food to alternative medical modalities]

Then on the opposite page, (while this garbage is fresh in your mind), it will have articles on promising new drugs to help sufferers of [fill in the blank on the most lucrative diseases] Remember that billions and billions are at stake. I heard around 900 Billion in the whole biz. Additionally egos the size of mountains (Doctors) are at stake.  Also their pocketbooks because they make a bundle off of a really sick child. Lots of visits/drugs.

Now that antibiotics sales have peaked long ago and going downhill in sales due to MRSA, there is only one drug company in the world that apparently makes them in large amounts and they have no research dollars in them, so unless they can drum up some business by creating a disease scare like ebola, measles, you name it, they are going to be "cash strapped."

A friend of mine deals in Stocks and so forth and tells me that the drug companies used to be at the top of the heap in money making for a very long time, but have slipped from that throne in the last number of years.

It is not just Andrew Wakefield or Andrew Moulden, There is a whole host of others ringing the alarm bells. The latest I heard was a vet who told horror stories of PPLs pets being horribly damaged by the jabs.

In Canada there is no keeping of records of vaccine reactions. Surprise surprise!!!

If you bothered to watch the vids you would see that Dr Wakefield was a researcher who was using data to prove what he was saying. He did not start out with a conclusion and work backward. 

TD
The person who you linked to  was just talking. He said nothing of substance and threw around names of the rich and famous in as derogatory a fashion as could muster. I am assuming that his whole story was written for him by 'english majors' working for the drug companies.

The whole idea behind Allopathy is that science reigns king, but when a scientist finds something that the medical establishment doesn't want to hear, he is trashed.

Andrew Moulden amongst other things said that vaccines cause mini-strokes in PPL and of course if you are a child susceptible for whatever reason then you will have one which results in generally permanent damage.

Another problem is that for reasons that the two Andrews and a whole host of other Allopathic physicians, etc., writers, explain the 'guts' of the children become unable to digest properly. Often getting rid of dairy, gluten and some other problem foods (as per http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/18/autistic-children-gut-flora.aspx ) can be a clue to solving at least some of the problems. However if Doctors admit that this can be done then they first have to admit there is a problem and so they might all be sued and more importantly look stupid for not picking up on the problem in the first place.

However the monumental egos of the Doctors will not admit that AW was trying to help by introducing these notions.

I am surprised that you guys are not on board for this, because the next step for all of this propaganda will be an incremental move towards mandatory vaccination for all. Sounds goofy, but just give it time. Ron Paul is right. Tyranny slows creeps up on the populace. You'll be getting a vaccine for everything.

Personally I do not know whether vaccines are ultimately going to prove out a good or bad idea, but it is obvious that more objectivity needs to happen with science because nobody really knows.

Bear in mind that Doctors were prominently featured in ads for cigarettes in days gone by.

Here is some stuff that is apropos to this thread, but also contained in the thread : http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/autism-explained/msg127850/#new

Fifteen minutes of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the guy that the British Doctor's Union blackballed and removed his license and somehow managed to hire PPL to lie about him in the media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYcxIrs4oyk#t=10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc

http://oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/italian-court-rules-mmr-vaccine-did-trigger-autism-article/

http://oneradionetwork.com/health-articles/connecting-the-dots-gmos-and-vaccines-article/

http://oneradionetwork.com/women-children-vaccines-articles/3-vaccines-banned-never-administered-child/

http://oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/dr-andrew-wakefields-candid-remarks-about-the-mmr-vaccine-article/

http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/allvaccinescontaminated29nov11.shtml

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/02/04/alex-jones-defends-listener-rand-paul-on-vaccin/202411

so the choice was always there to file a religious exemption, which was done easily.

The choice part has gone. If I want to visit someone in an old folks home I have to be vaccinated. If I want to work in certain businesses or in healthcare I have to be vaccinated.

This is a totalitarian state. It has nothing to do with the majority wanting it, it has to do with certain PPL with political power forcing it onto the masses who tend to believe everything the government says is correct and go along like sheep.