Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: raw-al on August 14, 2010, 08:55:27 am
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This link is of a girl with autism who it is discovered is able to communicate with a computer and is able to explain her autistic activities to everyone. Turns out she is not a particularly unusual teenager except for her lack of ability to communicate verbally and her incessant movement which she explains.
How this relates to a raw diet is that AV speaks quite extensively on his autism in his younger days and how he overcame it with diet which eventually led to the raw paleo diet. This girl proves that autism is an issue that is not really about mental health but more of a physical issue. Quite an eye opener.
http://www.wimp.com/autisticgirl/
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i thought this very touching! i used to work with autistic children, and it was really sad sometimes. one can see life and thought processing in their eyes, but communication is lost.
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Ioanna
Have you ever heard of anything like this before?
I sent the link to a child psychiatrist that I know well. Am anxious for his response. I have an acquaintance whose child is autistic.
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no, i've never heard of this before. the children i worked with were much younger though, i'm not sure they could even write, let alone the maturity to be so expressive. hmmm... now i can think of one boy who was a little older that might have eventually been able to get to that.
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AV's claims are often controversial and this autism claim is one of the least likely ones, to put it mildly as autism cannot be cured, being genetic in origin. Therefore this topic is moved to the hot topics forum.
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Tyler,
Sorry for putting it in the wrong forum,
After a bit of looking around I noticed that the different forums are a bit more organized than I thought they were. I thought that raw paleo was about AV stuff, along with that of others, but now I see that AV has his own area. That is my primary focus actually. I do not necessarily believe every word he says as some of it sounds a bit fantastic, but I have to give him his due and say he comes up with off the wall stuff that tends to pan out.
I have to suspend my judgments when I read or listen to his stuff owing to his speaking style. As anyone who studies psychology knows, adults were once children and children are affected by awesome forces from their caregivers and their environment which causes them to act or in this case talk in ways that can indeed belie their underlying incredible abilities such as in his case to look outside the box. I thus tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.
This girl clearly is autistic and she is clearly communicating with others and the term genetic while it may or may not be valid has nothing to do with the topic. The topic is concerning the fact that a person who has been accepted as being in a certain medical category but has somehow smashed through the glass ceiling of an accepted theory of what we always thought was possible, somewhat in the same fashion as other pioneers in medical science who have given incredible hope to others and opened up an entire vista upon which to view the world, such as Helen Keller. Previously I and no doubt most people thought of autists as being without cognitive or relational faculties other than say instinctual.
You suggest that "to put it mildly as autism cannot be cured, being genetic in origin." I think that is one of those statements like the one that the head of IBM who said that there is no market for personal computers or the other naysayers who generally tend to eat either a paleo or cooked version of crow.
This is huge. If you have ever been around kids with autistic behaviour it cannot help but affect you.
The relationship to the diet is that AV claims that he was there and he dragged himself out as I recall thanks to the ministrations of a helpful nurse and his path which eventually led him to the diet that he now espouses. Looking to the future I see this as another brick in the wall to giving credence to diet and specifically a raw diet as being the panacea to this issue and most likely a host of others.
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AV has made outrageous claims re having cured himself of a 1,000 mythical diseases, most of which are not even necessarily linked with each other, so hardly can be considered reliable re such absurdly unlikely claims such as having cured himself of autism.
As for the autism claims, it is an established scientific fact that autism cannot be cured, and is of genetic origin. This reminds me of the quack, Weston-Price, who ridiculously claimed that a Down's Syndrome patient was temporarily cured of Down's Syndrome after some surgery etc.
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As for the autism claims, it is an established scientific fact that autism cannot be cured, and is of genetic origin.
If not cured how about greatly ameliorated? There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence out there about the omission of grains (gluten) and dairy leading to great strides in the every day functionality of autists. I feel this points to the thought that diet, if not a direct cause, is definitely an exacerbator of Autism.
Example website, of many, brought up on Google. (http://www.glutensolutions.com/autism.htm)
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Sure there have been cases where some digestive-related symptoms of autistic children were removed/reduced , and no doubt removal of certain digestive-related issues could result in an improvement in mood and the like, but the non-gluten/non-casein diet hasn't been truly successful re removing the actual autistic condition.
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Dr Moulder describes autism from vaccinations as stroke victims and shows it conclusively in pictures.
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Autism is a hack quack term that describes a type of brain damage that manifest itself in a number of mental afflictions.
Its a spectrum disorder which means some cases are severe and others are mild, perhaps some manifestations are so mild that they aren't ever diagnosed.
My uncle Scott was 10 months old in 1967, he was injected with diptet, days later he began to cry constantly and was never right after that, he had severe behavioral problems and he was always a little off, but because it was before doctors stated calling brain damage autism he was never proprely diagnosed.( my grandmother swore it was the shot, she is a nurse and highly intelligent, (I believe her)
Were do you drawl the line between autism and what is natural stupidity.
I have seen the blank look of those afflicted its truly horrible
I believe that milder forms of autism are often ignored or called something else like ADHD. It is a hidden epidemic that in most people my only manifest as childish stupidity and listlessness.
Its a bigger problem than is being portrayed,1 in 60 boys has significant brain damage{autism} I wonder what is the number of those only mildly afflicted.
My bet is its cause by brain eating bio weapon's
It is my gut feeling that this has been designed to keep highly intelligent people from developing the higher states of consciousness which would to break free from the tyranny we are being born into.
Its a way to poke out the third eye.
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hmmmm.... "a thousand different mythical diseases. Might wanna get a blood check, you might be related. : )
"As for the autism claims, it is an established scientific fact that autism cannot be cured, and is of genetic origin."
Would you care to give us the proof of that statement. That's quite a claim that a medical condition is incurable. Heck, may as well close down all those silly research facilities.
Sure there have been cases where some digestive-related symptoms of autistic children were removed/reduced , and no doubt removal of certain digestive-related issues could result in an improvement in mood and the like, but the non-gluten/non-casein diet hasn't been truly successful re removing the actual autistic condition.
So to summarize are you now saying that a dietary shift may be useful in an unsubstantial way?
In the brief period that I was doing clinics with Ayurveda I saw patients with serious diseases that Allopathic medicine simply gave up on or handed them useless drugs. One girl with amenorrhea simply needed to give up her exercise regime which was aggravating her. Another guy with asthma simply needed dietary modifications to keep himself drug free and symptom free. I am not advertising for this modality, just making a point that since little is known about a topic there is no need to make the horizons smaller than they are.
It is not important whether or not AV is making it up as much as whether it is true/possible.
Genetics can be used to explain away just about anything because you are obviously constituted from the sum of your parents parts ie the sperm and the egg which are a microcosm of the originators state of emotion and health at the moment of conception. So saying something is genetic is pointless.
So is my mother's stomach cancer genetic? I have avoided it because Ayurveda has shown me a proper dietary direction to go and that combined with eating raw has allowed me to avoid this pitfall.
I have seen some wild and crazy cures affected by some wild and crazy methodologies.
The video fascinated me in the sense that this girl has said the issue that she is struggling with is related to a sensory overload. That's why she moves continuously. In Ayurvedic terms she is unable to digest or metabolize the sensory perceptions. Sort of like when you walk into a large city garbage dump. Your nostrils and eyes are in sensory overload and cannot digest what you see and smell and likely you'll end up vomitting or feeling really bad, or when you smell a rose, you instantly metabolize the sensory perception and your body feels suddenly wide open, alive and great.
Sabertooth,
One of my exes relatives had a child that was normal in every way until someone sprayed her with some kind of bug repellent. She never spoke from then on.
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As for the autism claims, it is an established scientific fact that autism cannot be cured, and is of genetic origin. ...
It would be wise to take care not to give a one-sidedly negative view without also revealing the positive side of the story, as one could discourage some people from trying potentially beneficial dietary/nutritional therapy. Those initial words seemed to suggest that autism is purely genetic, whereas it is now widely acknowledged among scientists as having an environmental component:
"Previous studies looking at a narrower population of youngsters have suggested that as much as 40% of the rise in autism cases might be explained by broader diagnostic definitions and by heightened awareness of the condition. But that still leaves 60% of the increase unaccounted for. "Most scientists believe there is something more than just awareness and a broadening definition that is responsible for the rise," says Dr. Gary Goldstein, president of the Kennedy Krieger Institute in Baltimore. "We are seeing some fraction of the increase that is probably due to more cases of autism."
So, what is driving the soaring numbers? While recent studies have highlighted genetic changes that might be responsible, some experts caution that such changes happen over time, far too slowly to explain the recent rise in autism. "When you see an increase like this, you have to think it's an environmental issue," says Dr. Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health and chair of the NIH's interagency autism coordinating committee.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1948842,00.html#ixzz0wdD08EnZ
And diet is acknowledged by scientists as one of many possible factors:
"There is so much stuff out there, whether it is diet or infection," says Goldstein. "We could make a list but it's got thousands of things on it." (ibid)
Fortunately, the initial extreme language was moderated somewhat here:
Sure there have been cases where some digestive-related symptoms of autistic children were removed/reduced , and no doubt removal of certain digestive-related issues could result in an improvement in mood and the like, but the non-gluten/non-casein diet hasn't been truly successful re removing the actual autistic condition.
I think where people like Tyler tend to flip out is over terms like "cure" and "overcame it" that seem to suggest a complete cure. I try to be cautious and tend to talk in terms of reductions in symptoms and perhaps potential "remission" in some cases, rather than promise anyone a cure, as Aajonus seems to. Dietary therapy appears to be very promising in treating the autism spectrum (for example, Ray Audette of NeanderThin reported an autistic boy's success story after Ray responded to the boy's mother's plea for help). Another caution to consider is that even if dietary therapy eliminated all symptoms, some people would say it's not a true "cure" because eating some of the offending foods would likely cause some amount of relapse.
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The claim that autism is just a "genetic disease", an old fashioned dodgy concept BTW, is anyway completely at odds with the dramatic increase of its occurence in western countries such as the US during very recent decades.
Autism is in fact most likely an emergent condition from poisoning during pregnancy closely related to the complex interplay of recent dietary changes and steady worsening because of ever increased processing, massive use of harmful chemicals in professional or everyday life and household, massive use of amalgam dental fillings and other neurotoxins, drugs, antibiotics etc etc since the 1960's in "developed" countries.
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The big problem re autism is that there are so many dodgy lies sustaining the myth. The biggest lie of all is that cases of autism are increasing rapidly. The truth is that the only reason why diagnoses of autism are increasing is because autism is seen as "trendy" and therefore receives far more money than other conditions. The result is that parents are absolutely desperate to have their children diagnosed as autistic so as to get some part of the funds, and, as a direct result, multitudes of people have been re-diagnosed falsely as "autistic" when, in the past, they would have been diagnosed as having completely different conditions.
As for the claims re diet and autism, these are not proven, and indeed the results thereof, have been very mild at best. Like I said, non-dairy/non-grain diets have been useful re improving mood-related or digestive-related issues and the like among the autistic but there hasn't been any cures involved for obvious reasons, as autism is genetic-related(though I don't discount the notion that autism might be epigenetic-related).
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The data is being cooked on all sides of the argument, but the truth is that autism is non existant in non vaccinated populations, of coarse most non vaccinated people also live in less polluted environments, so there is a definite need for double blind studies using vaccinated and non vaccinated test humans under more controlled conditions. Such a study wont be done by an established medical research organization, because the truth would most likely prove my gut feeling that vaccines are the major cause of autism?brain damage occurring today,thus pointing out the criminality of the whole medical establishments policy on vaccination.
The white washing of atrocity must be exposed,damnit
Where are the funds for this crucial research going,
Iraq, Afghanistan, research on chemotherapy.
One in 60 boys is being brain damaged,one in 150 girls, and many others have milder damage , I think this should trump most other issues.
I also suspect that epigenics may be a factor, but there isn't any studies that can point to the how or why this could be causing brain damage in developing humans.
Vaccines may alter genetic expression that can often be misinterpreted as faulty genes
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I'm afraid that autism occured even in the eras well before vaccinations. It's ridiculous to suggest that autism appeared out of nowhere in modern times.
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Autism's increase of occurence is obviously not just a matter of better diagnosis ;D
http://brightminds.wordpress.com/2007/02/08/us-cdc-states-autism-more-prevalent-than-previously-thought/
http://www.wellsphere.com/autism-autism-spectrum-article/autism-epidemic-genetic-autism-myth-finally-busted-at-the-us-senate/1190257
Most cases of autism do not actually need MD to diagnose them, they are so obvious, anyone can see the trouble.
And indeed in non "developed" countries occurence is near zero but increases rapidly when western lifestyle with its diet and subsequent dental and medical care, hygiene chemicals etc is adopted. I've checked this very recently with my friends from Cameroun countryside. Same for dental cavities in agreement with Price's observation. People grown up there in a traditional way in their villages have generally strictly ZERO cavities (BTW in spite of a diet including cooked tubers, meat and fish) and autism is only known of recently in urban area people with western type lifestyles.
Moreover autism occurence increases rapidly with the age of the mother which is a clear cut sign that it is a matter of poisoning of the baby in womb.
Vaccinations are certainly one but only one among many other environmental factors causing autism. I suspect the mothers amalgam dental fillings during pregnancy for instance to be a more important likely culprit
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Here is a report from the Canadian Parliamentary Library. Canada like Britain and France have a free medical system.
I recommend you read the entire report as it is not that long but here is one section;
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/ResearchPublications/prb0593-e.htm
"ASDs are 3 to 4 times more common among boys than girls. There is neither a known cause nor a known cure.
INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF DIAGNOSED CHILDREN
According to Statistics Canada, the number of “persons with autism or any other developmental disorder” was just above 69,000 in 2003, or about 1 in 450 Canadians. ( 8 ) The rate seems to be much higher for school children. According to Autism Society Canada, there has been a steep rise in the number of school children with the disorder in the three provinces that monitor this increase with reliable statistics: Saskatchewan, Quebec and British Columbia.(9) Preliminary results of an epidemiological study conducted at Montreal Children’s Hospital in the 2003-2004 school year found a prevalence rate of 0.68% (or 1 per 147). While higher than the rate that was reported in the literature 15 years ago, this prevalence rate is consistent with other recent studies in the United States and United Kingdom, where rates of around 0.6% (or 1 per 167) have been reported.
The reasons for this apparent increase are difficult to pinpoint. The recent figures may be driven by a rise in the condition among young children or, alternatively, by a series of other factors, including a broadening of the definition of autism, increased public awareness, improved symptom recognition and diagnosis, and improved survey methodology. A recent study in the United Kingdom published in the American Journal of Psychiatry provides some support for the latter hypothesis, but its results will need to be replicated in other contexts before they can be deemed conclusive.(10) "
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I'm afraid that autism occur ed even in the eras well before vaccinations. It's ridiculous to suggest that autism appeared out of nowhere in modern times.
I am very aware of this fact
did you also know that live measles virus can be cultured from the brains of most autistic people, even though they never contacted the disease, It was injected into them through live virus vaccination.
Of course there were cases of viral brain damage before vaccination, what I am saying is that now these condition are being artificially created in much higher percentages of people than ever before
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/10/981031181106.htm
This is being done by design
Herpes 6 and measles don't naturally infest the brain of infants, its a one two punch crafted by the eugenicist scum that think they own us;it culls the development of exceptional minds.
Even if it isn't intentional, then it is just being done out of ignorance and bad science,
Either way it needs to be looked into more openly and I am only suggesting my personal view.
Herpes 6 and measles trigger auto immune anti bodies against brain tissue that and results in brain damage, that's a fact
my own Brother contacted ITP from a measles shot had a severe auto immune reaction and I think it damaged his brain although he is not autistic,
This is a very personal subject to me
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Yeah you don't need to be a doctor to notice autism. It's obviously epigenetics as the brightest star says LOL (nearly as bad as my username) says older mothers are much more likely to give birth to autistic kids.
shit diet, exposure to toxins, damaged eggs, damaged sperm.
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The video fascinated me in the sense that this girl has said the issue that she is struggling with is related to a sensory overload. That's why she moves continuously. In Ayurvedic terms she is unable to digest or metabolize the sensory perceptions. Sort of like when you walk into a large city garbage dump. Your nostrils and eyes are in sensory overload and cannot digest what you see and smell and likely you'll end up vomitting or feeling really bad, or when you smell a rose, you instantly metabolize the sensory perception and your body feels suddenly wide open, alive and great.
Following along with my previous reasoning (for anyone that understands Ayurveda) a Pitta/Vata pacifying diet would probably be appropriate.
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The big problem re autism is that there are so many dodgy lies sustaining the myth. The biggest lie of all is that cases of autism are increasing rapidly. The truth is that the only reason why diagnoses of autism are increasing is because autism is seen as "trendy" and therefore receives far more money than other conditions.
Actually, that is the biggest lie--blaming all of the increase on trendiness, funding and better reporting and tracking. See my post above in which I addressed this myth and refuted it, and others have since added more sources countering the myth. It had some traction decades ago, but as tracking of autism improved and the rates of autism continued to increase--even in recent years--the myth that all the increase is due to trendiness, funding and better reporting and tracking lost credibility in the scientific community and scientists are increasingly looking for other explanations. Now those factors are seen as just part of the puzzle, not the full explanation.
as autism is genetic-related(though I don't discount the notion that autism might be epigenetic-related).
Autism is genetic-related and epigentic-related, but evidence has demonstrated that it CANNOT be purely genetic (again, see above) and diet is one of the primary factors that are identified as influencing epigentics, so the potential for dietary therapy is in no way refuted by this statement--on the contrary, the epigenetic link supports dietary therapy potential, as people in this forum have been trying to explain to you. I get the sense that you're not reading any of the evidence folks like myself have been providing to you on autism, epigenetics, and potential environmental factors like diet/nutrition.
You've frequently discounted the ability of the RPD to help at all with a number of illnesses, so I'm curious as to what illnesses/disorders you DO think can be helped by RPD other than obesity, anxiety, chronic fatigue, and insomnia (which I think you acknowledge, but correct me if I err)? And I don't mean just complete cures forever--I mean any illnesses/disorders that you think that RPD can substantially help with in any way.
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Autism's increase of occurence is obviously not just a matter of better diagnosis ;D
I didn't suggest that the increases of autism diagnoses was the result of better diagnosis. I pointed out what is now well-known that the number of autism diagnoses has risen considerably(along with an equivalent reduction in diagnoses of other conditions) purely because autism has a much larger financial support re research/funding etc. so that parents of such children are desperate to get an autism diagnosis for their children and so autism consultants are more willing to falsely "re-diagnose" people as autistic.
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Actually, that is the biggest lie--blaming all of the increase on trendiness, funding and better reporting and tracking. See my post above in which I addressed this myth and refuted it, and others have since added more sources countering the myth. It had some traction decades ago, but as tracking of autism improved and the rates of autism continued to increase--even in recent years--the myth that all the increase is due to trendiness, funding and better reporting and tracking lost credibility in the scientific community and scientists are increasingly looking for other explanations. Now those factors are seen as just part of the puzzle, not the full explanation.
Autism is genetic-related and epigentic-related, but evidence has demonstrated that it CANNOT be purely genetic (again, see above) and diet is one of the primary factors that are identified as influencing epigentics, so the potential for dietary therapy is in no way refuted by this statement--on the contrary, the epigenetic link supports dietary therapy potential, as people in this forum have been trying to explain to you. I get the sense that you're not reading any of the evidence folks like myself have been providing to you on autism, epigenetics, and potential environmental factors like diet/nutrition.
Actually, your conspiracy-theory-related notions are the biggest lies of all.It has been pointed out, time and again, that autism diagnoses-rates have risen while similiar other conditions have fallen re diagnoses-rates. Fortunately for me, the various conspiracy-theory-related sites re autism are considered absolutely laughable by most scientists, given the severe lack of rigorous scientific data they have. As for claims re diet and autism, I have myself pointed out that they have limited benefits for autism sufferers(that is, they do provide some minor benefits re digestion and even mood, but don't cure the actual condition of autism). And I've read all the usual nonsense re vaccines/autism/Dr Wakefield etc., and the evidence supporting it was always highly flawed at best. All I can say is that I am very glad this is in the hot topics forum(our "rubbish bin") as such ridiculous threads make rawpaleoforum look really bad.
You've frequently discounted the ability of the RPD to help at all with a number of illnesses, so I'm curious as to what illnesses/disorders you DO think can be helped by RPD other than obesity, anxiety, chronic fatigue, and insomnia (which I think you acknowledge, but correct me if I err)? And I don't mean just complete cures forever--I mean any illnesses/disorders that you think that RPD can substantially help with in any way.
I am not a fan of absurd claims that genetic illnesses can be cured. if we don't put a stop to this sort of nonsense, we will end up with fools claiming that an RPD diet can cure haemophilia, AIDS, ruptured appendixes, Down's Syndrome and even death from natural causes(William has already suggested such re mention of palaeo era!) etc etc.
We therefore need to be a lot more sceptical re the kind of 100s of extreme claims that AV has made.
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We are all grasping at threads here ,it is highly speculative as to the true causes and magnitude of what is called autism{I call it brain damage}.
If there is a legitimate concern among so many people about vaccination, then why isn't the medical establishment spending the same big money on double blind studies on vaccinated Vs non vaccinated as they do on other less damaging conditions.
This is the conspiracy I think we all can agree on..
The problem isn't being given proper and thorough scientific investigation, so it leaves us all guessing.
I do believe the magnitude of the issue goes beyond Autism
My own brother developed a life threatening condition{ITP} two days after the measles shot.
The doctors never even reported it as an adverse reaction and the whole incident was swept under the rug. My brother is not autistic, but he does have lower intelligence and did develop epilepsy in later childhood.
so according to medical authorities what happend to my brother is a conspiracy theory
my uncle Scott developed an autism type condition after the 10 month diptet, so my grandmother must be a conspiracy theorist as well , because she claimed that hour after the shot he started screaming and didn't stop for days
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Actually, your conspiracy-theory-related notions are the biggest lies of all.It has been pointed out, time and again, that autism diagnoses-rates have risen while similiar other conditions have fallen re diagnoses-rates. Fortunately for me, the variosu conspiracy-theory-related sites re autism are considered absolutely laughable by most scientists, given the severe lack of rigorous scientific data they have. As for claims re diet and autism, I have myself pointed out that they have limited benefits for autism sufferers(that is, they do provide some minor benefits re digestion and even mood, but don't cure the actual condition of autism). And I've read all the usual nonsense re vaccines/autims/Dr Wakefield etc., and the evidence supporting it was always highly flawed at best. All I can say is that I am very glad this is in the hot topics forum(our "rubbish bin") as such ridiculous threads make rawpaleoforum look really bad.
This is mostly utter nonsense unrelated to anything I wrote. I included nothing on conspiracy theories or vaccines and don't believe they are a likely factor, so that is a straw man--you may be mixing up my posts with someone else's.
As for your grudging and late admission on diet--I already acknowledged that above, but you followed it with more negative remarks and your overall tone re: diet is one of dismissiveness. If diet DOES help even a little, then autism is NOT purely genetic, and if diet is at all a significant factor, then some of the increase in autism is possibly due to changes in Western diets. Just because a disease is classified as "genetic" doesn't guarantee that environment doesn't play an important role. You also can't have it both ways--you can't imply that autism is purely genetic and that the increase in autism rates is unrelated to diet and also claim to acknowledge diet as a significant factor.
As I mentioned above, I don't talk about cures--please don't confuse my posts with others that have used that term.
....and even death from natural causes(William has already suggested such re mention of palaeo era!) etc etc.
Another straw man. I was one of the people who took William to task for such absurdities.
We therefore need to be a lot more sceptical re the kind of 100s of extreme claims that AV has made.
I agree on that and was careful to point out above that my handling of the subject differs from AV's, but to go to the other extreme and focus only on genes and ignore or downplay the environmental aspects of autism is something we should also be skeptical of. It is counterproductive and is outside of the scientific mainstream on autism that you claim to support:
"[R]eductionist thinking can be misleading. If we only focused on the gene, which we cannot change, we would miss the importance of the environment, which we can change." --Michael J. Dougherty, Ph.D., Director of Education for the American Society of Human Genetics, "The Genetics of Autism," http://www.actionbioscience.org/genomic/dougherty.html
You usually at least provide some links to support your opinions. Your failure to do so this time suggests to me that you may not have put much study or thought into the subject of autism. Have you really investigated it or are you just shooting from the hip?
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As for your grudging and late admission on diet--I already acknowledged that above, but you followed it with more negative remarks and your overall tone re: diet is one of dismissiveness. If diet DOES help even a little, then autism is NOT purely genetic, and if diet is at all a significant factor, then some of the increase in autism is possibly due to changes in Western diets. Just because a disease is classified as "genetic" doesn't guarantee that environment doesn't play an important role. You also can't have it both ways--you can't imply that autism is purely genetic and that the increase in autism rates is unrelated to diet and also claim to acknowledge diet as a significant factor.
You're twisting what I said. All I stated(way back in the past, not just now) was that non-gluten/non-casein diets have been useless as regards curing autism. I have also always stated that there have been minor benefits from those diets in terms of improving autistic peoples' digestion and/or mood. These aspects are minor issues that, of course, have nothing to do with the actual condition of autism. Similiarly, schizophrenics have reported some minor benefits re digestion and mood from such cooked palaeodiets, but no one would seriously claim that their schizophrenia was cured or improved as such.
You usually at least provide some links to support your opinions. Your failure to do so this time suggests to me that you may not have put much study or thought into the subject of autism. Have you really investigated it or are you just shooting from the hip?
Wrong again. Many years ago, some fool suggested I had Asperger's Syndrome and I, being a bit bored then, spent a large amount of time reading about the various characteristics of autism(including all those conspiracy-theory-related sites promising autism cures through diet etc.) and quickly worked out that it was physically impossible for me to have that condition. Still it wasn't all wasted as I, as a result, was eventually able to work out that I had chronic fatigue, muscle-weakness and a 100 other adrenal-related disorders, and finally came round to doing this lifesaving rawpaleodiet.
There is plenty of stuff debunking the usual nonsense. Here's a study which points out that NGNC diets are useless re autism, just being useful for digestive-related disorders and the like:- http://www.rodale.com/autism-diets
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You're twisting what I said. All I stated(way back in the past, not just now) was that non-gluten/non-casein diets have been useless as regards curing autism. I have also always stated that there have been minor benefits from those diets in terms of improving autistic peoples' digestion and/or mood. These aspects are minor issues that, of course, have nothing to do with the actual condition of autism. Similiarly, schizophrenics have reported some minor benefits re digestion and mood from such cooked palaeodiets, but no one would seriously claim that their schizophrenia was cured or improved as such. Wrong again. Many years ago, some fool suggested I had Asperger's Syndrome and I, being a bit bored then, spent a large amount of time reading about the various characteristics of autism(including all those conspiracy-theory-related sites promising autism cures through diet etc.) and quickly worked out that it was physically impossible for me to have that condition. Still it wasn't all wasted as I, as a result, was eventually able to work out that I had chronic fatigue, muscle-weakness and a 100 other adrenal-related disorders, and finally came round to doing this lifesaving rawpaleodiet.
There is plenty of stuff debunking the usual nonsense. Here's a study which points out that NGNC diets are useless re autism, just being useful for digestive-related disorders and the like:- http://www.rodale.com/autism-diets
Yep ok. Your still getting confused with absolutes.
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Not confused at all. I am aware that a rawpalaeodiet can effectively cure digestive disorders and even mood-related issues - and I have no problem with people stating such. What is not acceptable is for someone to claim that autism or some similiar serious genetic condition can itself be cured or improved by diet as that is an entirely separate issue from digestion or mood. I just think we lose credibility if we make outrageous claims re raw diets. Besides, if this sort of thing isn't nipped in the bud, members like William and others will in future think nothing of making claims that a rawpalaeodiet will help regrow limbs etc.
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You are wrong. Sorry.
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Yeah you don't need to be a doctor to notice autism. It's obviously epigenetics as the brightest star says LOL (nearly as bad as my username) says older mothers are much more likely to give birth to autistic kids.
shit diet, exposure to toxins, damaged eggs, damaged sperm.
Just the brightest star (Alnaïr) of a very small region in the sky, the Gruis (crane) constellation, in your southern hemisphere.
A fairly modest star actually in terms of brightness as compared to tens of others such as Sirius or even the close neighbour constellation star named Fomalhaut.
But in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. :)
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You are wrong. Sorry.
Yes, of course, Tyler is absolutely wrong in this respect, no doubt about this.
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I'm not really worried. I realise that conspiracy-theories re Dr Wakefield and the noble savage claims of weston-price are a favourite in the field of unusual diets. It's the hopeless romantic in many people, I suspect. I'm just adding a bit of common-sense as there is no current genuinely science/validity behind the claims re diet curing or actually improving autism as such(just non-autistic stuff such as digestion/mood).
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Even the blind can rely on their third eye and with it the are able see into the abyss of ignorance with a clarity that can liberate us all ,from the darkness that shrouds the truth
Please keep in mind that I am part of the Thimerisol generation(children who were born in the 80s and 90s received more thimerisol containing vaccines than anyone in history and from my research I believe are the most damaged) If you study the history as I have you could discover that back in the 1920s thimerisol was being used in the development of animal vaccines but was discontinued because it was proven to be unsafe, even in the use of ANIMALS .This was discovered in the 1920s so why was it still being injected into children 8 decades later,(I tell you its sinister) >D
Something happened to my own mind as a child that left me dyslexic and withdrawn and awkward socially, I didn't really learn to read at grade level until I was a about ten,
The damaged brain is capable of forging new pathways and seeking new horizons in those young enough, that's why some autistic people develop savant like capabilities(Its the non damaged part of the part brain trying to cope with the loss of function on the damaged part)
So I am I high school drop out and conflicted soul who has no credential for arguing about brain science, and yet some voice is screaming from within that there is something not right, I never bought into the lie that infants needed to be shot up at birth with genetically modified hepatitis DNA,or genetically modified measles,diphtheria,tetanus, and on and on and on(whether or not it causes brain damage)
There is still no one who can tell me how and why is this herpes 6 virus is found in autistic children along with live measles and how the two agents cause the development of antibodies against parts of the brain. So until anyone can enlighten me on that front, I am going to scream foul play.
Just because all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put humpty together again, should not distract us from the fact that poor humpty dumpty was pushed to his demise by an evil hand.
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Tyler, I never claimed that the present situation re autism or else is the result of any conspiration. It's just an emergent phenomenon from interplay between human idioty, greed, definite reluctance to seriously question the pertinence of the western modern civilized man's lifestyle in any of its aspects that would have as a consequence to cost too many of us much money.
There is a simple rule that states that it is definitely impossible to convince someone of something that would cost him money or a reputation.
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Tyler, I never claimed that the present situation is the result of any conspiration.
I was talking in a general sense, not you specifically. Conspiracy theories are very big in the field of autism, with vaccines, mercury etc. etc. variously being blamed for autism, along with dodgy practices such as chelation therapy being advocated as dubious ways to supposedly "cure" autism.
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This whole argument started off with a video.
The video was of a girl who was considered a hopeless case. Call it what you want that was the diagnosis. However through what appeared to be an accidental introduction of her to a keyboard she was suddenly able to communicate. I get the feeling it was the first case of this ever. Can anyone confirm or deny this? If she is the first then indeed we now have a window into their world where various modalities in the medical profession can at least have a fighting chance to do something to possibly improve their lives. Everything is a brick in the wall.
What effect diet would have, I have no idea nor does anybody yet on this forum so far. Some have had minor success in treating symptoms with diet, that is agreed. My thoughts are that someone out there who is in the position to do something about it might be tempted to explore this modality. Indeed diet may have a long term or generational effect as in Pottenger's cats
Some believe that injected vaccines may play a part. Jury is still out despite what some my believe. I am drawn to recall the doctor who worked for the tobacco companies and who defended them with his storefront "health" organization that said smoking was OK for your health. He finally died of some sort of cancer I heard.
As to whether AV really was afflicted with any illness, who knows or cares. This is not a discussion about him. It's about the girl and can we figure out a way to help the huge # of people with this issue. This is the internet and lots of people who know lots of things are reading this and hopefully they can add to the stew er raw stew :o
Somewhere out there is an Alexander Graham Bell who is going to be in the position of doing something about autism like what he did for the deaf.
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If she can only communicate via keyboard, it's hardly a cure. Sort of like providing an artificial leg for someone who has lost a leg. In case, someone foolishly claims that the latter is basically a cure, I should add that I have had 2 relatives with missing feet/legs, as applicable, and their prostheses were in 1 case utterly useless, and in another case,caused considerable pain which required constant drug-use to overcome.
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The reason that she can communicate with a keyboard could be that visual language skills require a different undamaged section of the brain than face to face verbal communication, it gives hope to some and proves that the brain is able cope with early damage well enough to develop the undamaged areas, but I don think it leads us to any new truth about the condition
Sad, cynical, and sorry deductions;(
I use to volenter to help the autistic kids with physical education while in middle school, many were just like that girl in the video most of them I thought were void of soul, but now I wonder , maybe if they had the type of training that girl had, something more humane could of become of them.
Of course the same principled training regime if applied to the undamaged could have the same amazing results for anyone
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You're twisting what I said. All I stated(way back in the past, not just now) was that non-gluten/non-casein diets have been useless as regards curing autism.
There you go again, using extreme language like "curing" and "useless". No one has to twist your words, you do a heck of a job on your own. ;D Many parents, some healthcare practitioners and some autism organizations report that dietary and nutritional therapy has reduced some (not all) autistic children's symptoms, so it's not a "useless" approach and it was identified by scientists and physicians as one of the potential environmental factors in the article I excerpted from above.
I have also always stated that there have been minor benefits from those diets in terms of improving autistic peoples' digestion and/or mood. These aspects are minor issues that, of course, have nothing to do with the actual condition of autism.
That's your opinion and just more hot air. I can understand getting ticked off at people quoting some of AV's unusual claims and advice as though it were gospel, but you're going way overboard with it on this topic.
Wrong again. Many years ago, some fool suggested I had Asperger's Syndrome....
Aha! Now we're getting somewhere. I had a feeling you had an emotional investment in this topic because you didn't even bother to post sources up till now and your language was even more strident than usual. I'll empathize with your bad history in this area, but I also urge you to consider that some other people's experiences have been very different from yours.
There is plenty of stuff debunking the usual nonsense. Here's a study which points out that NGNC diets are useless re autism, just being useful for digestive-related disorders and the like:- http://www.rodale.com/autism-diets
Yeah, I read about that when it hit the news. You realize that it's not the only study on the subject and that there are positive studies on dietary/nutritional therapy as well, right?
From the article you cited:
"The children were all screened for milk allergies, lactose intolerance, and celiac disease (a condition in which the body can't process gluten properly)."
In other words, the children most likely to benefit from the diet were excluded from the study. If the diet only helps children who are allergic to or intolerant of lactose or gluten, it's still beneficial for them, whether it improves autism specifically or not.
Some balance from your own source that you failed to mention:
WHAT IT MEANS: If you want to try GFCF diets with your autistic child, go ahead, says Dr. Hyman, but be aware that there are a lot of factors that influence behavior in children with this disorder. ....
"Children with autism may benefit from a GFCF diet"
So even Dr. Hyman is much less negative than you, unsurprisingly. One reason Dr. Hyman has to cover her ass and admit that a GFCG diet may help some autistic children is that she has witnessed at least one successful dairy-free diet therapy herself:
[M]y husband and I kept our appointment with a well-known developmental pediatrician to confirm the diagnosis of autism. Dr. Susan Hyman gave Miles a variety of tests and asked a lot of questions. We described the changes in his behavior since he'd stopped eating dairy products. Finally, Dr. Hyman looked at us sadly. "I'm sorry," the specialist said. "Your son is autistic. I admit the milk allergy issue is interesting, but I just don't think it could be responsible for Miles' autism or his recent improvement."
We were terribly disheartened, but as each day passed, Miles continued to get better. A week later, when I pulled him up to sit on my lap, we made eye contact and he smiled. I started to cry -- at last he seemed to know who I was. He had been oblivious to his sister, but now he watched her play and even got angry when she took things away from him. Miles slept more soundly, but his diarrhea persisted. Although he wasn't even 2 yet, we put him in a special-ed nursery school three mornings a week and started an intensive one-on-one behavioral and language program that Dr. Hyman approved of.
I'm a natural skeptic and my husband is a research scientist, so we decided to test the hypothesis that milk affected Miles' behavior. We gave him a couple of glasses one morning, and by the end of the day, he was walking on his toes, dragging his forehead across the floor, making strange sounds, and exhibiting the other bizarre behaviors we had almost forgotten. A few weeks later, the behaviors briefly returned, and we found out that Miles had eaten some cheese at nursery school. We became completely convinced that dairy products were somehow related to his autism.
I wanted Dr. Hyman to see how well Miles was doing, so I sent her a video of him playing with his father and sister. She called right away. "I'm simply floored," she told me. "Miles has improved remarkably. Karyn, if I hadn't diagnosed him myself, I wouldn't have believed that he was the same child."
I had to find out whether other kids had had similar experiences. I bought a modem for my [PC] -- not standard in 1995 -- and discovered an autism support group on the Internet. A bit embarrassed, I asked, "Could my child's autism be related to milk?"
The response was overwhelming. Where had I been? Didn't I know about Karl Reichelt in Norway? Didn't I know about Paul Shattock in England? These researchers had preliminary evidence to validate what parents had been reporting for almost 20 years: Dairy products exacerbated the symptoms of autism. .... (http://www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/health/autism/we-cured-our-sons-autism/)
Regardless of how many real cases of autism are helped by GFCF or RPD, if you believe in the RPD, then presumably you think that eliminating gluten and dairy is a healthy step for everyone anyway, right? Heck, you yourself benefited from RPD, so the fact that you didn't have Asperger's is rather irrelevant to the question of whether or not you should have tried RPD. Don't you believe that anyone who acquires sufficient education in how to do it right should try RPD? If alleged autism symptoms then reduce, great. If not, it's still a healthy diet when done properly, right?
Here's some more from Dr. Hyman and one of her colleagues:
"This is a small study," Hyman acknowledges. "Families will continue to try the diet, and that's OK." But, she says, they must ensure their growing children receive adequate nutrition.
Pamela Compart, co-author of The Kid-Friendly ADHD and Autism Cookbook, calls the study "clean and well thought out." But, says Compart, a pediatrician in Columbia, Md., who trained with Hyman, researchers may have seen behavioral changes if they had looked 72 hours after the snacks or if they also had eliminated soy from kids' diets.
"If you're able to keep them well-nourished, I think it's worth every child trying it," Compart says of the special diet. "People would not stay on this diet if they didn't think it was working."
Hyman and Compart agree on the need for further scientific investigation into the role of diet in autism. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-05-20-autism20_ST_N.htm)
Here, here! Dr. Hyman's outlook is far more reasonable and balanced than what you have posted so far. She makes my points well enough for me that I don't even need any counter-sources to hers.
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Interesting post Phil,
The good thing is that when forced to show the error of someone's ways ;) ;D :o one is forced to do homework ourselves and get to the heart of the matter.
Tyler can be a devil's advocate whether or not he realizes it. Devil's advocates serve a useful purpose and some might say pivotal because if there is one thing that gets me going is when someone says those fateful words.... No that's impossible. :o
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Yup, devil's advocates are useful. :D
Ironically, Tyler says more negative things about RPD than anyone at the Dirty Carnivore forum does. However, that makes for good debate that helps me organize my thoughts and direct my research, so it's often quite helpful if I can look past the barbs ;) and I end up spending more time here than there.
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There you go again, using extreme language like "curing" and "useless". No one has to twist your words, you do a heck of a job on your own. ;D Many parents, some healthcare practitioners and some autism organizations report that dietary and nutritional therapy has reduced some (not all) autistic children's symptoms, so it's not a "useless" approach and it was identified by scientists and physicians as one of the potential environmental factors in the article I excerpted from above.
The trouble with your ludicrous claims is that mainstream scientists are fully convinced from the evidence that there is no justification for claiming that diet can cure autistic symptoms. The only people you can point to are proven charlatans like Dr Wakefield.
What is truly disgraceful is that charlatans all over have been making false claims about chelation-therapy etc., in order to pretend that autism is cureable. It isn't. Curing a few non-related symptoms such as digestion or mood is irrelevant to the issue of autism. What I fear is that some deluded parents of autistic children(such as those who believed in the fairy-tales re vaccines etc.) will be given false hope re some RPF members' more foolish claims re autism and try this diet only to be very cruelly disappointed. That kind of immorality STINKS, quite frankly.
That's your opinion and just more hot air. I can understand getting ticked off at people quoting some of AV's unusual claims and advice as though it were gospel, but you're going way overboard with it on this topic.
Rubbish as usual. As I pointed out, this is not merely my opinion but standard scientific concensus. Pretty much all you have on your side are loony conspiracy-theorists or charlatans like Dr Wakefield.
As for the asperger's comment, the truly sad thing is that is quite obviously apparent that you have done only a tiny fraction of research on autism. Otherwise, you would have read(and understood) some of the data I read years back which showed no genuine cure for autism with diet. The few genuine claims re diet have all been strongly disputed and improved training-copnditions/environment have been cited as being far more likely reasons for improvement than diet.
As for the issues re autism and diet, you still seem very confused and unable to grasp that there is an obvious major difference between autism itself and non-related conditions such as digestive disorders/mood-related issues.Sure, everyone from autistics to haemophiliacs to amputees to those with burst appendices, or schizophrenics or those brain-damaged at birth etc. will benefit from a non-gluten/non-casein diet as regards improved digestion/decreased aging etc. but such a diet will not cure or relieve autism nor will it help to regrow limbs or repair a burst appendix or whatever.We have to be realistic and at least honest and not pretend that a rawpalaeodiet will grant immortality or cure autism or similiar nonsense.
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The important point or question is actually not whether or not RPD "cures" autism or many other ailments. Obviously irreversible damage may be caused to the fetus during pregnancy because of poisoning of the mother by SAD, vaccines, drugs, heavy metal exposure etc etc at crucial steps of embryo development and this definitely cannot be "cured" actually in any way, just somewhat improved or allieviated.
The important point is rather whether or not RPD and consequent non exposure to modern medical or dental "care", harmful chemicals, vaccines etc would have prevented essentially these ailments to appear initially.
And to this question the answer is most likely a definitive yes since as I already said the occurence of these conditions is extremely rare in primitive non civilized societies on traditional diets with no modern medical care or ubiquitous harmful chemicals and neurotoxins exposure.
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Well, even wild animals on 100% raw, natural diets have a chance of producing offspring with genetic birth-defects. So, diet alone can't solve all issues.
I have no problem with RVAF diets being cited as helping digestive-related disorders, age-related disorders and the like. I just don't like the notion of diets being claimed to help conditions that are lifelong and ultimately incurable. It would be interesting, though if people on NG/NC diets had far fewer rates of autistic etc. children.
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I got this email from another source yesterday and it is interesting and shows that psychological physical issues may not be strictly in the realm of incurable.
"This is the same one that pregnant women (and people with suppressed
immune systems) have to watch out for. Most of immune systems handle it
under normal circumstances. Some interesting stuff material relating to
this article immediately below can be found in the one from wikipedia
linked after it . . .
Schizophrenia Caused By Cat Parasite
Johns Hopkins University scientists trying to determine why people
develop serious mental illness are focusing on an unlikely factor: a
common parasite spread by cats.
The researchers say the microbes, called Toxoplasma gondii, invade the
human brain and appear to upset its chemistry--creating, in some people,
the
psychotic behaviors recognized as schizophrenia.
If tackling the parasite can help solve the mystery of schizophrenia,
"it's a pretty good opportunity ... to relieve a pretty large burden of
disease," said Dr. Robert H. Yolken, director of developmental
neurobiology at the Johns Hopkins Children's Center.
http://snipr.com/1058mo
Toxoplasmosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis "
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Something like a third or a half of people worldwide are "infected" with toxoplasma but don't have any symptoms. It may simply be that a specific strain on the body or brain makes people already genetically prone to schizophrenia more likely to get an attack, nothing solely to do with toxoplasma, as such.
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If she can only communicate via keyboard, it's hardly a cure. Sort of like providing an artificial leg for someone who has lost a leg. In case, someone foolishly claims that the latter is basically a cure, I should add that I have had 2 relatives with missing feet/legs, as applicable, and their prostheses were in 1 case utterly useless, and in another case,caused considerable pain which required constant drug-use to overcome.
Tyler,
Thought you might like a peek; ???
"Human Regeneration
Two research reports published Friday offer novel approaches to the
age-old dream of regenerating the body from its own cells. Animals like
newts and zebra fish can regenerate limbs, fins, even part of the heart.
If only people could do the same, amputees might grow new limbs and
stricken hearts be coaxed to repair themselves.
But humans have very little regenerative capacity, probably because of
an
evolutionary trade-off: suppressing cell growth reduced the risk of
cancer,
enabling humans to live longer. A person can renew his liver to some
extent, and regrow a fingertip while very young, but not much more.
In the first of the two new approaches, a research group at Stanford
University led by Helen M. Blau, Jason H. Pomerantz and Kostandin V.
Pajcini has taken a possible first step toward unlocking the human
ability to regenerate. By inactivating two genes that work to suppress
tumors, they got mouse
muscle cells to revert to a younger state, start dividing and help
repair
tissue.
http://snipr.com/10akro "
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Limb regeneration might well work via science but not via diet!
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Limb regeneration might well work via science but not via diet!
Careful you might end up eating ;) your words...
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The trouble with your ludicrous claims is that mainstream scientists are fully convinced from the evidence that there is no justification for claiming that diet can cure autistic symptoms. ....
There you go saying "cure" again. I didn't say "cure" and I cautioned against using that term from my very first post in the thread. You build more straw men than anyone I've ever encountered. Completely irrelevant to everything I've written here.
The only people you can point to are proven charlatans like Dr Wakefield.
Wakefield? Where did I mention Wakefield (whose vaccine hypothesis I disagree with, BTW)? I pointed to Dr. Hyman--you're source!--and a colleague from her past.
you still seem very confused and unable to grasp
Methinks the fox smells himself.
You conveniently ignored my questions. Let's try again:
Do you or don't you think that eliminating gluten and dairy is a generally healthy step (assuming those foods are not replaced with something more heinous)?
Should you have tried RPD even though you never really had Asperger's?
Do you or don't you believe that anyone who acquires sufficient education (such as from you) in how to do it right should try RPD?
Leaving entirely aside the question of whether the RPD helps with autism at all, isn't RPD a healthy diet in general for people with autism (and for most people) when done properly? To put it another way, will a sound, customized RPD cause an autistic person serious harm if they try it?
Here are some more questions:
Do you agree with Dr. Hyman that "Families will continue to try the diet, and that's OK"?
Do you agree with Dr. Hyman that "If you want to try GFCF diets with your autistic child, go ahead"?
Do you agree with Dr. Hyman on "the need for further scientific investigation into the role of diet in autism"?
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Careful you might end up eating ;) your words...
Hardly. The idea that a raw diet could lead to limb regeneration is so absurd that it's like believing that the Earth is flat.
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There you go saying "cure" again. I didn't say "cure" and I cautioned against using that term from my very first post in the thread. You build more straw men than anyone I've ever encountered. Completely irrelevant to everything I've written here.
You were stating that autism could be relieved to some extent by diet, whereas I pointed out that digestion/mood , which the diets improved, are not directly related to autism. So, implying a partial cure is still appalling.
Wakefield? Where did I mention Wakefield (whose vaccine hypothesis I disagree with, BTW)? I pointed to Dr. Hyman--you're source!--and a colleague from her past.
The loony fringe of the autism-cure movement to which you belong is a big fan of Dr Wakefield. The fact that he was proven wrong negates most of the ludicrous notions re autism "cures", so it is very relevant to mention his name.
Do you or don't you think that eliminating gluten and dairy is a generally healthy step (assuming those foods are not replaced with something more heinous)?
In a very general sense, it is a healthy step. For curing or relieving autism itself, such diets are a waste of time, as they merely focus on non-autistic issues like digestion etc.
Should you have tried RPD even though you never really had Asperger's?
Do you or don't you believe that anyone who acquires sufficient education (such as from you) in how to do it right should try RPD?
The above is illogical as an rpd diet has nothing to do with asperger's. I simply chose the rpd diet as it solved a lot of my issues re chronic fatigue.
The various questions are so ridiculously similiar to "have you stopped beating your wife" type of questions, it's absurd.
First of all, Dr Hyman was merely qualifying her comments so as not to commit herself too much. No genuine scientists likes to state absolutes as that sounds too dogmatic, even in cases where there is no real evidence supporting a contrary view.
As for the autistic issues it's a red herring. Sure, it is acceptable to state that a rawpaleodiet can cure digestive-related disorders or decrease aging, but is totally false to suggest that a rawpalaeodiet can help with autism or mental retardation at birth or limb regeneration and such-like.
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The important point or question is actually not whether or not RPD "cures" autism or many other ailments. Obviously irreversible damage may be caused to the fetus during pregnancy because of poisoning of the mother by SAD, vaccines, drugs, heavy metal exposure etc etc at crucial steps of embryo development and this definitely cannot be "cured" actually in any way, just somewhat improved or allieviated.
Well stated, Alphagruis.
The important point is rather whether or not RPD and consequent non exposure to modern medical or dental "care", harmful chemicals, vaccines etc would have prevented essentially these ailments to appear initially.
And to this question the answer is most likely a definitive yes since as I already said the occurence of these conditions is extremely rare in primitive non civilized societies on traditional diets with no modern medical care or ubiquitous harmful chemicals and neurotoxins exposure.
But if Tyler's right about autism being purely genetic and about autism itself being impervious to potential effects from diet, then primitive societies should have no different real rate of autism. He has attributed any claims of autism beyond that caused by genes to trendiness, funding and the like. Do you have any evidence to support your counter-claim?
Tyler, for clarification, what is your definition of autism and the rest of the autism spectrum, and what symptoms are directly attributable to autism? What symptoms do you see as directly attributable to the other illnesses in the autism spectrum?
....It would be interesting, though if people on NG/NC diets had far fewer rates of autistic etc. children.
Does this mean that you are now willing to consider that autism might not be 100% genetic, or do you instead assume that any difference in real rates of autism must be solely due to genetic differences between populations? What evidence of autism rates among HGs have you used in developing your strongly held opinion of autism being purely genetic, if any? What do you estimate the real rate of autism among moderners to be? It would indeed be interesting to see how it compares to that among truly primitive peoples. How does the prevalence of autism among traditional primitive peoples compare to their modernized counterparts from the same gene pools?
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Well stated, Alphagruis.
But if Tyler's right about autism being purely genetic and about autism itself being impervious to potential effects from diet, then primitive societies should have no different real rate of autism. He has attributed any claims of autism beyond that caused by genes to trendiness, funding and the like. Do you have any evidence to support your counter-claim?
Primitive societies by definition wouldn't allow autistic (or otherwise disabled) children to survive. They would have been abandoned early on to die in the wilderness as infants or would simply have failed to thrive etc. So, it's a difficult proposition to prove such a thing. I once asked a scientist what the rate of birth-defects was among wild animals (ie on 100% raw diets) , but he said there wasn't any reliable data on the subject as those with birth-defects tend to die pretty quickly in infancy etc.
As for the trendiness issues/funding that's established fact:-
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=95
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dsm5-in-distress/201003/will-dsm5-contain-or-worsen-the-epidemic-autism
Tyler, for clarification, what is your definition of autism and the rest of the autism spectrum, and what symptoms are directly attributable to autism? What symptoms do you see as directly attributable to the other illnesses in the autism spectrum?
Autism is basically a brain-related condition, so I definitely do not view physically-related conditions such as digestive disorders, mood-related issues to be connected to autism.
Does this mean that you are now willing to consider that autism might not be 100% genetic, or do you instead assume that any difference in real rates of autism must be solely due to genetic differences between populations? What evidence of autism rates among HGs have you used in developing your strongly held opinion of autism being purely genetic, if any? What do you estimate the real rate of autism among moderners to be? It would indeed be interesting to see how it compares to that among truly primitive peoples. How does the prevalence of autism among traditional primitive peoples compare to their modernized counterparts from the same gene pools?
As I pointed out above, it would be impossible to determine what the real rate of autistic peoples is in HGs. Any such sufferers would not likely survive long past infancy.
My view is that genetics and epigenetics do play a part in autism - maybe even something happening in the womb. What I disagree with is the absurd notion that autism can be cured or relieved after exiting the womb.
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To change direction here a bit...
Ayurveda explains that indeed there are some actions that a mother may take which will affect the progeny and indeed may even skip generations and appear down the family tree one or two generations later. This is understood by modern investigation so no great surprise.
Also Ayurveda explains the process of procreation and that indeed when a child is conceived in relation to the days after menstruation, the child is affected in the sense of it's overall development. Also the fact of premature or very late childbirth is well known to affect the development of a child.
To this list we can add that the nourishment and activities of a mother can well affect the development of a child. I know a women who is a fitness freak and exercised right through the pregnancy. Her child was born very large but with obvious mental incapacity. The modern practice of dumping a child a short period after birth so as to go back to work I believe will also be shown by history as a blight no less destructive than the industrial revolution's excesses.
Many illnesses are well known due to alcohol and drug consumption. The list goes on and on for causes. I personally am starting to believe that eating cooked foods especially cooked on open fires such as bar-b-cueing will eventually be deemed as destructive. I also believe this will take a long time to be accepted for a variety of reasons although the internet may short-circuit that.
Having said all of this, just for a moment suspend the arguments for another way of looking at things. The Hindus and many other religious, etc. groups have long-standing beliefs about why we are here on earth. The theory goes that our actions create a result. (That's the definition of Karma) The result may be a number of things from desirable to non-desirable. You punch someone in the nose and either instantly or down the line someone does it back. Same with a smile. This Karma is like baggage. So some individuals may choose to be born with a physical incapacity such as autism etc in order to burn up their Karma quickly, maybe it is the last Karma they have prior to enlightenment. The whole idea behind knowing this is that they are doing the best they can with what they know and it is a best policy to show empathy not sympathy. They may be very advanced souls. You may be in their size 10s (shoes) the next time around.
If you get the chance I recommend reading "The Brain That Changes Itself" by Dr. Norman Doidge. It is an exploration of some amazing people (some are Allopathic Doctors) who by the use of various modalities, , have pioneered or taken to stratospheric levels the idea that no brain or mental incapacity is incurable or impossible to rectify.
I listened to it on audiobook that I got from our wonderful local library, but you can get it on an inter-library loan, a download from your library if you are housebound or from audible.com or from the author etc.
In Canada the CBC Canadian Broadcasting Corporation made a documentary on it that covers the main bases. 44 minutes DVD www.cbclearning.ca 1 866 999 3072 I also got that at the library.
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Hoo boy, Tyler. You're still misunderstanding my views and points and not directly answering my questions. For example, I'm tired of having to repeat that I'm not making any cure claims.
I give up. It seems like autism is one of those emotional topics that causes you to focus on propagandizing and prevents you from trying to comprehend what the other person is saying. It's difficult to converse with someone when they won't make an effort to understand what you're trying to say. It's like trying to talk to a guy who's yelling into a megaphone with the volume set to maximum. You'll disagree with me, of course, and I doubt you're even aware of what you're doing at times like this--so I think it's more blindness O0 than malice. It's also much easier to defeat straw men than real arguments.
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...and in case you contradict my saying you didn't answer some of my questions--I'll specify an example in your latest post where you didn't answer my question about what symptoms you see as directly attributable to autism and the other illnesses in the autism spectrum other than to vaguely mention that it's a "brain-related disorder" and then go on again in your broken-record way about what symptoms are NOT part of autism.
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But if Tyler's right about autism being purely genetic and about autism itself being impervious to potential effects from diet, then primitive societies should have no different real rate of autism. He has attributed any claims of autism beyond that caused by genes to trendiness, funding and the like. Do you have any evidence to support your counter-claim?
I'll comment and try to answer soon, PaleoPhil. I'm bit busy by now.
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...and in case you contradict my saying you didn't answer some of my questions--I'll specify an example in your latest post where you didn't answer my question about what symptoms you see as directly attributable to autism and the other illnesses in the autism spectrum other than to vaguely mention that it's a "brain-related disorder" and then go on again in your broken-record way about what symptoms are NOT part of autism.
Glutton for punishment!
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Hoo boy, Tyler. You're still misunderstanding my views and points and not directly answering my questions. For example, I'm tired of having to repeat that I'm not making any cure claims.
I give up. It seems like autism is one of those emotional topics that causes you to focus on propagandizing and prevents you from trying to comprehend what the other person is saying. It's difficult to converse with someone when they won't make an effort to understand what you're trying to say. It's like trying to talk to a guy who's yelling into a megaphone with the volume set to maximum. You'll disagree with me, of course, and I doubt you're even aware of what you're doing at times like this--so I think it's more blindness O0 than malice. It's also much easier to defeat straw men than real arguments.
The above is simply childish. You yourself previously tried to claim that if a rawpalaeodiet helped an autistic person to improve their digestive system or other condition not related to autism that then it was acceptable to claim that a rawpalaeodiet could help autistic people. This is a classic case of a false premise and illogic as it is deliberately misleading, implying that autistic people could have their actual autistic condition cured or resolved.
As for not directly answering your questions, I had already pointed out that a number of those questions were clearly pseud "have you stopped beating your wife-type questions, which are wholly dishonest(or simply irrelevant to the whole issue) and do not dignify an answer, therefore.
My reasons for this subject are pretty simple. Many people in the autism-cure-field have deliberately lied to vulnerable parents of autistic children, promising them either partial relief or a 100% cure of their autistic condition. This has been a really big issue in the UK, given Dr Wakefield's dodgy propagandising of the whole anti-vaccine quackery. Therefore, it is unnacceptable for us to promise snake-oil cures offering partial or full recovery from conditions which are not solvable through diet, such as autism or loss of limbs etc. I am fine with you suggesting that an RPD diet of parents might possibly reduce the number of autistic children in the next generation, as the science of epigenetics has shown that behaviours like smoking in grandparents can lead to increased rates of asthma in their grandchildren. But words like "possibly", "maybe" etc. should be used even then.
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...and in case you contradict my saying you didn't answer some of my questions--I'll specify an example in your latest post where you didn't answer my question about what symptoms you see as directly attributable to autism and the other illnesses in the autism spectrum other than to vaguely mention that it's a "brain-related disorder" and then go on again in your broken-record way about what symptoms are NOT part of autism.
I have already provided ample data re links to show that the autism epidemic is a false one, involving a rediagnosis of people as autistic who were previously diagnosed as having different conditions, so that autistic diagnoses have gone up while diagnoses for other brain-related disorders have gone down.Read the links. There's a lot of info out there re the false autism epidemic.
As for the mention of autism as being "brain-related", that was self-evident - I was talking about an earlier topic where I pointed out that characteristics that have nothing to do with autistic-related mental behaviour, such as digestion, cannot be lumped together as part of the autistic condition. In other words, while many autistic children(or indeed any children) may very well benefit from improved digestion as a result of a rawpalaeodiet, a rawpalaeodiet cannot be said to help cure autistic people as such, as the actual condition of autism cannot be cured or relieved. Not difficult to understand.
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Glutton for punishment!
;D And of course he went on further about what are NOT autism spectrum symptoms instead of answering the question of what ARE autism spectrum symptoms.
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;D And of course he went on further about what are NOT autism spectrum symptoms instead of answering the question of what ARE autism spectrum symptoms.
That's not terribly clever. After all, we have specifically been talking , previously, about things like digestive issues which are clearly not autism-related. Sounds like you are deliberately changing the subject. Relatively common autistic characteristics, such as some form of mental retardation etc. etc., self-evidently can't be cured via diet. To even suggest such is dishonest, sort of like claiming that the Earth is flat. Now, granted, minor issues might be either temporarily or permanently relieved such as hand-flapping or OCD-related issues due to intensive training of sorts, but no self-respecting medical practitioner would claim that this was a cure or even a relief, merely a reduction of symptoms rather than relief of the main condition of autism. Autism is for life.
(Though, I'll grant that the "re-diagnosis" of people as autistics, re the false autism "epidemic", has undoubtedly led to many people without any serious issues to be erroneously labelled autistic).
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But if Tyler's right about autism being purely genetic and about autism itself being impervious to potential effects from diet, then primitive societies should have no different real rate of autism. He has attributed any claims of autism beyond that caused by genes to trendiness, funding and the like. Do you have any evidence to support your counter-claim?
There are actually only very very few well known "purely genetic" diseases. In such a rare disease a single gene coding for a specific enzyme has undergone a mutation that makes the relevant enzyme either less efficient or inactive in a major vital reaction path. Autism is certainly not yet demonstrated even remotely to be one of them but as in almost all maladies one observes a more or less strong correlation between the presence of specific natural gene variants and its occurence. Some genes variants or genome owners are more prone than others to become ill but this is not a genetic disease in the sense that genes are the cause of the maladies. Environmental changes or factors are in fact the real causes as for instance gluten intake in ceoliac disease.
In fact the belief that autism or many maladies are genetic in origin was common and even ubiquitous about 20 years ago but is now more and more abandoned and was linked initially to the central dogma of biology and "genetic program" picture of living organisms now shown to be wrong.
From this recent general evolution and the fact that not even a single specific genetic defect could be evidenced re autism as well as the recent overall trends in biology I think that Tyler is wrong re autism.
Yet, unfortunately I don't think there exist now ample statistical data about the rate of autism in primitive societies to confirm this. As I said before, I just got recently anecdotal evidence from my friends from Cameroun that this condition was essentially unknown up to now except in urban areas and people adopting western diet and way of life.
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OK, Tyler, it looks like these are they symptoms for autism spectrum disorders you've mentioned so far:
"some form of mental retardation"
hand-flapping
"OCD-related issues"
Did I miss any and would you like to add any more?
Thanks for the info Alphagruis. By coincidence, I've been interested in Cameroon and Ghana recently for a few reasons.
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OK, Tyler, it looks like these are they symptoms for autism spectrum disorders you've mentioned so far:
"some form of mental retardation"
hand-flapping
"OCD-related issues"
Did I miss any and would you like to add any more?
I merely gave those as examples as mental retardation is a pretty important and rather common aspect of autism and the least likely to be solved through something like diet, while hand-flapping and OCD-related issues are merely minor side-effects of autism which an autistic person can be trained, over time, not to do. The changes to the brain are THE most significant aspect of autism, above all else, so any claims re cures or relief of autism would have to involve some form of regeneration of the brain - no such evidence exists. Case closed.
As for the issues re hunter-gatherers, first of all, documentation of such would be difficult to carry out - but, as I pointed out previously, HGs with serious conditions like schizophrenia or autism would not have been able to survive past infancy, as those tribes simply do not have the resources of a modern society re keeping such people alive long-term. Indeed, pretty much all societies prior to the birth-control pill had ways to eliminate flawed or unwanted offspring. I'm thinking of the old Roman practice of throwing infants into the Tiber, the Spartans leaving all their children(even healthy ones) out in the wild for 3 days to ensure only the healthy ones survived, and so on.
It is a simple fact, of course, that wild animals similiarly do routinely produce flawed offspring with genetic defects that mean they can't survive for long in the wild. These wild animals routinely live off 100% raw foods(if not living near urban areas, of course), yet they get these conditions anyway, not to mention non-inherited characteristics like cancer etc.
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Tyler here is a quote from an article that is pertinent to this discussion
“Genes are not Stalinist dictators,” said Dr. Barker, now at Oregon Health and Science University. “What they do, how they’re expressed, is conditional on the rest of the body. The human being is a product of a general recipe, and the specific nutrients you get or don’t get.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/health/research/17moose.html?_r=1
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Geez, Tyler, you write like a politician speaks--lots of talk without directly answering the questions, though at least you're starting to partially answer.
Your answers are muddled, but I think you're saying that the only relevant symptoms for determining whether any environmental factor can affect autism at all are "changes to the brain", yes? If so, what are these "changes to the brain"? Are you saying that these brain changes should be the only criteria used in diagnosing autism or are there any other criteria you would add?
You have changed your labeling of these...
"some form of mental retardation"
hand-flapping
"OCD-related issues"
from "issues" to "side effects". What is the difference between illness "issues", illness "side effects" and illness symptoms? I work in the healthcare industry and I believe symptoms is the only clinical term among these in the context of diagnostic criteria. "Side effects" tends to be used to describe negative effects from treatments, not from the illnesses themselves and "issues" is a rather vague, nonclinical term that I've only seen physicians occasionally use when they haven't determined a diagnosis yet, or when using it as a broad or generic descriptor (as in "the patient has several endocrine issues including..."). If you don't like the term "symptoms", you can use "diagnostic criteria", as both these terms are recognized in the medical and scientific communities.
If autism is 100% genetic, then if we find any significant difference in rates between ANY populations that cannot be explained by genetics, not just HGs vs. moderners, this would undercut your hypothesis. So there's not necessarily any need to look to HGs to check for differences. If we find differences among neolithic traditional peoples like pastoralists and primitive/semi-traditional crop agriculturalists, or even between regions in the USA, that can't be completely explained by extremely early autism deaths or trendiness differences, that would also call into question the 100% genetic claim unless potentially explanatory gene differences are found, and the excuse that all the autistic HGs die off at an early age before outsiders can observe them would presumably be less of a factor among semi-modern and modern populations, if there's any evidence that it it's even a factor with HGs, which you haven't presented as yet.
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Okay, I don't really know much of anything about autism, other than what I've read in this thread. But it seems to me that what the argument going on here is that a raw/paleo or otherwise good diet may help with the symptoms one sees in autistic children. It could reduce problems with digestion/mood, as Tyler said, which could reduce the symptoms of the autism and make it far more manageable, and easier to deal with, which SEEMS like it is relieving the symptoms of autism itself. However, it actually does nothing for the actual condition of autism, instead it is similar to, say, someone getting a cold, and has the symptoms of a runny/stuffy nose, sore throat, and a cough (like the symptoms of arm flapping or OCD-related issues and other things that autistic children do) and then this person takes some Nyquil or other cold medicine (or changes to a different diet). The symptoms of a runny/stuffy nose, sore throat, and cough (or the symptoms of arm flapping/ocd-related issues/other issues) all go away. However, the actual cold did not go away (the autism itself has not gone away whatsoever) only the symptoms of the condition have gone away. But still, you FEEL like the cold has gone away (or like the autism might be gone) but that doesn't mean that it isn't still there. Sure, it's a great help, but it's not an actual cure or even partial cure. I think that it where this argument is coming up from.
Not that I'm trying to get involved into the argument, as, like I said, I know nothing significant about autism, I'm trying trying to show another perspective of the argument from what I read to help those arguing to understand better. If it doesn't help though, then just ignore everything I said, lol.
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Thanks for the info Alphagruis. By coincidence, I've been interested in Cameroon and Ghana recently for a few reasons.
What strikes me very much is that the people from southern equatorial Cameroon I know of , about twenty of them in their thirties or fourties, all of them grown up in Cameroon countryside on traditional diet and only recently moved to France, are 100% dental cavities free with very nice teeth. Their diet, besides raw food such as fruit or dried meat and insects or shrimps included as staples tubers prepared in various ways and generally cooked as well as cooked fish, eggs and meat. But all eggs, meat or fish was either free range grass fed or wild. There seems however to be a clear cut tendency towards overweight in ageing people possibly linked to the fairly high cooked tubers intake.
Food for thought that reminds me of our similar former Weston Price controversy with Tyler ;)
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Paleeophil, I'm afraid your "interpretations" are themselves hopelessly, hypocritically muddled,. For one thing, differences between different regional areas are extremely likely. For example, incest(cousin/cousin marriage and even, in some cases, relationships between closer relatives, is much more common in SE Asia, which results in higher levels of birth-defects, so it is possible that autism rates are higher over there. Then again, autism diagnoses in poorer countries would be far less prevalent than in richer countries like the US, given lack of sufficient access to doctors etc. There are other confounding factors. For example, some US states have far better state funding for autism than others, which means that parents of autistic children are highly motivated to move to certain States, thus making the whole business pointless re determining which regions have higher rates of autism.
I did not refer to mental retardation as a side-effect. The hand-flapping/ocd-related issues are a far more minor trait and are behavioural-related. I was simply distinguishing them from more permanent aspects of autism, such as mental retardation, as the former minor issues can be easily removed via training.
And I stand by what I said re HGs inevitably not surviving past early infancy if they are found to suffer from serious conditions like autism. Plus, the fact that even some of the offspring wild animals have all sorts of birth-defects despite living off 100% raw, natural diets, means that a rawpalaeodiet cannot by itself solve certain birth-defects.
As for changes in the brains of autistic children there's plenty of scientific data on the web that you can check out yourself such as this etc.:-
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040323074016.htm
The point is that the inherent nature of autism is derived from changes in the brain. So any reported cures/relief re autism need to show that they regenerate the brain or whatever. Now sorting out minor issues such as hand-flapping may well help integrate autistics into society, but it does nothing to cure or relieve their actual autistic nature.
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Fortunately for me, the various conspiracy-theory-related sites re autism are considered absolutely laughable by most scientists,
... as is RPD. I'll never understand how you can be so close-minded towards anything outside of the scientific mainstream while at the time advocating eating raw rotten meat.
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Paleeophil, I'm afraid your "interpretations" are themselves hopelessly, hypocritically muddled,. For one thing, differences between different regional areas are extremely likely. For example, incest(cousin/cousin marriage and even, in some cases, relationships between closer relatives, is much more common in SE Asia, which results in higher levels of birth-defects, so it is possible that autism rates are higher over there. Then again, autism diagnoses in poorer countries would be far less prevalent than in richer countries like the US, given lack of sufficient access to doctors etc. There are other confounding factors. For example, some US states have far better state funding for autism than others, which means that parents of autistic children are highly motivated to move to certain States, thus making the whole business pointless re determining which regions have higher rates of autism.
I did not refer to mental retardation as a side-effect. The hand-flapping/ocd-related issues are a far more minor trait and are behavioural-related. I was simply distinguishing them from more permanent aspects of autism, such as mental retardation, as the former minor issues can be easily removed via training.
And I stand by what I said re HGs inevitably not surviving past early infancy if they are found to suffer from serious conditions like autism. Plus, the fact that even some of the offspring wild animals have all sorts of birth-defects despite living off 100% raw, natural diets, means that a rawpalaeodiet cannot by itself solve certain birth-defects.
As for changes in the brains of autistic children there's plenty of scientific data on the web that you can check out yourself such as this etc.:-
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040323074016.htm
The point is that the inherent nature of autism is derived from changes in the brain. So any reported cures/relief re autism need to show that they regenerate the brain or whatever. Now sorting out minor issues such as hand-flapping may well help integrate autistics into society, but it does nothing to cure or relieve their actual autistic nature.
TD You are getting in deeper ;) Now autism is caused by incest and incest is rampant in SE Asia. hmmmmm
"I'm afraid your "interpretations" are themselves hopelessly, hypocritically muddled"
If I told you once I told you 1000 times Don't Exagerate"
"Then again, autism diagnoses in poorer countries would be far less prevalent than in richer countries like the US, given lack of sufficient access to doctors etc."
One of the problems cited in the US owing to it's user pay medical system is the lack of access to medical service by the poorer. I think if you look at the statistics in the US there is a huge section of the population that has no health insurance and indeed the people with the money in the US are fighting very hard to keep it that way. That is why health care reform int he US is so slow. Everybody is afraid that someone else will get their hands on their stash. Living in England you forget that your country long ago passed over that bridge.
"parents of autistic children are highly motivated to move to certain States"
Now you are going to have to prove and explain that one.
"And I stand by what I said re HGs inevitably not surviving past early infancy if they are found to suffer from serious conditions like autism."
Again I would be fascinated by your proof of that one.
Nowhere in your link was there any reference to the "fact" you espouse that it is impossible, (and all the other extreme language you are fond of) that diet can have an effect on autism whether by changing the health of the mother or the autist. The people in that link were simply spending the 400 million that they had to study various diseases.
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Plus, the fact that even some of the offspring wild animals have all sorts of birth-defects despite living off 100% raw, natural diets, means that a rawpalaeodiet cannot by itself solve certain birth-defects.
What wild animals do you know of with birth-defects which weren't also eating crops, pesticides and being exposed to all sorts of other man-caused pollutants? Not saying there aren't any, but it's just you say that you know that there are some.
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What wild animals do you know of with birth-defects which weren't also eating crops, pesticides and being exposed to all sorts of other man-caused pollutants? Not saying there aren't any, but it's just you say that you know that there are some.
The subject is little researched as virtually all those wild animals with birth-defects die out very quickly after birth, if not before(as I found out a while back:-
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Wildlife-2507/Wildlife-birth-defects.htm
However, it has been pointed out that mutations are a perfectly normal part of ALL life, regardless of the quality of nutrition/pollution, and that mutations have been around for billions of years. So, birth-defects(mutations are usually harmful, sometimes neutral, and very rarely beneficial) have been with us since the dawn of time.
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... as is RPD. I'll never understand how you can be so close-minded towards anything outside of the scientific mainstream while at the time advocating eating raw rotten meat.
Actually, an RPD diet is backed up by many scientific studies done on the harmful effect of heat-created toxins from cooking, the negative effects of non-palaeo foods like dairy etc. When scientists make foolish statements such as that a raw diet leads to deficiencies, it is invariably a simple case of wrongly/falsely blaming all raw diets for the deficiencies caused by raw vegan/fruitarian diets.
The simple fact is that an RPD diet will never be accepted by society unless we adopt a scientific approach and don't make outrageous claims re vaccines/autism and the like. So far, there have been endless studies done on the benefits of bacteria(re the "hygiene hypothesis") and parasites and enzymes and so on, along with detailed info on the harm done by cooking. So, it is becoming increasingly difficult for mainstream scientists to deny that cooking doesn't cause some harm, which is a start.
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TD You are getting in deeper ;) Now autism is caused by incest and incest is rampant in SE Asia. hmmmmm
"I'm afraid your "interpretations" are themselves hopelessly, hypocritically muddled"
If I told you once I told you 1000 times Don't Exagerate"
My points were very clear not muddled at all. You seem to be not capable of grasping what I was talking about because it's beyond you personally, that's all. To make it clear I did not suggest that autism was caused by incest.
I was talking about birth-defects in a general sense, not merely autism. And pointing out how clearly absurd Paleophil's notions were re quoting statistics from different regions as there are so many different factors involved re autism that have nothing to do with diet. The fact that incest is way higher in SE Asia, for example, does indeed mean that there is a higher rate of birth-defects in that area.
As for your mention of the US healthcare system that's utterly irrelevant as any logical person would naturally be aware that SE Asia for example has a much lower standard of health-care on average than in the US.
"Then again, autism diagnoses in poorer countries would be far less prevalent than in richer countries like the US, given lack of sufficient access to doctors etc."
"parents of autistic children are highly motivated to move to certain States"
Now you are going to have to prove and explain that one.
What I said was self-evident, and not difficult to understand. 1 of the reasons behind the false autism "epidemic" is that parents of autistic children had an incentive to relocate to States which had better State funding for autism, so that, as a direct result, some States had much higher rates of autism than others:-
"A population-based study of one Minnesota county found that the cumulative incidence of autism grew eightfold from the 1980–83 period to the 1995–97 period. The increase occurred after the introduction of broader, more-precise diagnostic criteria, increased service availability, and increased awareness of autism.[31] " taken from:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_autism#United_States
As for the points re diet not curing autism, that again is self-evident. Once the damage is done re changes in the brain etc., autism is irreversible.No diet can regrow limbs or change an autistic's brain so that they become like neurotypicals or any such nonsense.
As for claims re HGs, I already previously pointed out endless examples of ancient societies such as Ancient Rome and Greece practising infanticide, along with evidence of infanticide in the Palaeolithic. It's pretty easy to find via google.
1 of the other things that has been pointed out is that the older people get the more likely they are to pass on extra mutations in the germ-plasm, which is why older people are more likely to have autistic children. Yet more proof re genes:-
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/08/6005/
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Interesting stuff, Alphagruis, thanks.
portions of the brain's white matter that are abnormally large in children with autism and developmental language disorder (DLD). The findings confirm that the previously observed overgrowth of white matter occurs after birth and suggest that it may be related to the process of myelination .... Many earlier studies have shown that autistic children often have unusually large brains and experience rapid brain growth in the first years of life. This increased brain volume appears to be concentrated in the white matter.
So it looks like you recognize overgrowth of white brain matter after birth as a clinical symptom of autism that can be used as a diagnostic criterion, if desired, yes? There are other characteristics of autism mentioned at that link, do you wish to add any of them or any others to your list of clinical symptoms/criteria of autism, or do you regard white brain matter overgrowth as the only true symptom of autism?
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And thanks for trying to help, Wolf.
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If autism is a natural occurrence or some genetic defect, then shouldn't the other great apes suffer similar conditions how many chimps do you see afflicted with this type of brain damage, if its natural to man and not chimp then what makes them immune; that 1 percent genetic difference must be to blame ;or is it environment?
I'm not sure??
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That's an interesting question, and another interesting question is, if HG infants with autism "die out very quickly after birth", how did so much of the autism-related genes survive? Granted, some of the current level of autism is likely due to broader diagnosis, but wouldn't we expect it to be extremely rare, almost unheard of, too small to even gain a political footing to begin with? The only plausible explanation for the significant and sustained survival of autism genes over the millennia is if they provide some survival or procreation advantage. But what advantage?
This question of why such seemingly disadvantageous genes persist has been raised with ADHD too:
"Given the current estimated frequency of ADHD (3% to 5%), it is unlikely that such a "disorder" could be as prevalent in the human species if not maintained within the species by selection forces that conveyed certain advantages to some ADHD characteristics or other associated traits."
The three major diagnostic criteria of hyperactivity, impulsivity and attention differences were examined to see if these traits might actually have helped our ancestors to survive. ....
Russell Barkley, a noted researcher in the field of ADD, recently hypothesized that ADD is caused by genetic mutations. But his idea is inconsistent with modern theories of evolution. Genetic mutations are not passed down from generation to generation on a large scale unless they provide some advantage to the population. If anything, the reverse is more likely to be true. Hunter-gatherer genes may have been the original genes, and "normal" or "Farmer" genes may have appeared later as a result of random mutations.http://borntoexplore.org/hunter.htm
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Interesting stuff, Alphagruis, thanks.
So it looks like you recognize overgrowth of white brain matter after birth as a clinical symptom of autism that can be used as a diagnostic criterion, if desired, yes? There are other characteristics of autism mentioned at that link, do you wish to add any of them or any others to your list of clinical symptoms/criteria of autism, or do you regard white brain matter overgrowth as the only true symptom of autism?
No, as I'm sure there are other differences in the brains of autistics.
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If autism is a natural occurrence or some genetic defect, then shouldn't the other great apes suffer similar conditions how many chimps do you see afflicted with this type of brain damage, if its natural to man and not chimp then what makes them immune; that 1 percent genetic difference must be to blame ;or is it environment?
I'm not sure??
There is simply insufficient data/studies on birth-defects in wild animals. All that is certain is that mutations(most of which are harmful) occur in every generation of wild animals, no matter how perfect their diet might be.
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That's an interesting question, and another interesting question is, if HG infants with autism "die out very quickly after birth", how did so much of the autism-related genes survive? Granted, some of the current level of autism is likely due to broader diagnosis, but wouldn't we expect it to be extremely rare, almost unheard of, too small to even gain a political footing to begin with? The only plausible explanation for the significant and sustained survival of autism genes over the millennia is if they provide some survival or procreation advantage. But what advantage?
This question of why such seemingly disadvantageous genes persist has been raised with ADHD too:
You forgot 1 point. Natural mutations occur all the time in animals as well as humans(eg:- 6 fingers etc.) Since the human brain is so much more complex than that of any other animal, it follows that mutations that affect the brain will be quite common , among mutations in general - and as soon as there is urbanisation, and therefore no natural or unnatural selection, the rates of birth-defects go straight up.
There have been other claims similiar to yours, albeit merely speculative. There was one suggestion that geniuses are more likely to have siblings who were schizophrenics. My own experience of schizophrenics and their families suggests that that claim is seriously flawed, though.
1 thought:- autism's 1 major trait is overgrowth of parts of the brain until they exceed safe limits. Perhaps on a smaller scale, some people might benefit from that in a smaller way, re increased intelligence/memory etc., without necessarily getting full-blown autism?
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.... I'm sure there are other differences in the brains of autistics.
OK, so you think there are other brain abnormality symptoms of autism, but you don't know what they are, right?
There is simply insufficient data/studies on birth-defects in wild animals. All that is certain is that mutations(most of which are harmful) occur in every generation of wild animals, no matter how perfect their diet might be.
Yes, but the harmful mutations don't normally persist for generations--it's generally the beneficial or relatively benign ones that do. Mutations that kill off infants quickly, as you hypothesized, tend to die out rapidly and new ones take their place, with relatively beneficial ones persisting into further generations.
You forgot 1 point. Natural mutations occur all the time in animals as well as humans(eg:- 6 fingers etc.) ....
I haven't forgotten that natural mutations occur, I just also haven't forgotten what I was taught in biology that most mutations don't persist generation after generation for millennia unless they provide some sort of advantage, with exceptions for disadvantageous mutations that don't much affect survival to reproductive age, though they tend to be limited to offspring of bottleneck populations, which doesn't appear to be the case with autism--but your hypothesis is that autism kills off infants quickly, so that doesn't explain it.
Natural selection pressures have reduced in recent centuries, so perhaps another possibility is that autism is a recent mutation that hasn't had enough time and selection pressure to be eliminated? Shouldn't we expect the rates of autism to be declining, though? Even if we factor out overdiagnosis, I don't get the sense that it's declining.
1 thought:- autism's 1 major trait is overgrowth of parts of the brain until they exceed safe limits. Perhaps on a smaller scale, some people might benefit from that in a smaller way, re increased intelligence/memory etc., without necessarily getting full-blown autism?
This seems in conflict with your earlier hypothesis that autistic infants die quickly after birth in primitive societies, unless you're also saying that autism is a recent mutation with advantages in modern society.
Some like Temple Grandin think that autism may provide an advantage that would explain why its genes survive--namely, advanced math and computer ability. This would only appear to be a significant advantage in modern society, so she seems to be suggesting that it is a recent mutation(s). Notice also how the article says that autism is "partly genetic", not completely. The fact that autism runs in families shows that it is partly genetic in origin, but evolutionary theory suggests genes causing such a debilitating conditions ought to have been weeded out of the population. The Cambridge study hints at why this has not happened, suggesting that with variations in the way they are combined, such genes are beneficial.
On their own, such studies have to be treated cautiously because the numbers involved are small. In the Cambridge study, seven of 378 maths students were found to be autistic, compared with only one among the 414 students in the control group.
Other studies, however, have found similar patterns. Baron-Cohen, whose cousin Sacha Baron Cohen is the comic actor behind the Ali G and Borat characters, said: “Separate studies have shown that the fathers and grandfathers of children with autism are twice as likely to work in engineering. Science students also have more relatives with autism than those in the humanities.” ....
For Baron-Cohen the next step is to find the genes linked with autism; he is working with Professor Ian Craig of King’s College to scan the DNA of hundreds of autistic people - and of mathematicians. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882699.ece
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You're assuming at autism is complex. It could be that it's broader and more general so occurs fairly readily. Autism isn't necessarily as specific as you are considering it to be. Someone's already mentioned that the diagnosis criteria have even further expanded recently.
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If autism may encourage someone to become particularly skilled in specific areas which can be practised in solitude, perhaps people with autism would get very good at other skills in the past which they could do on their own..
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You're assuming at autism is complex. It could be that it's broader and more general so occurs fairly readily. Autism isn't necessarily as specific as you are considering it to be. Someone's already mentioned that the diagnosis criteria have even further expanded recently.
Actually, my understanding was that it is broad/general in the human population, so I don't disagree with that and perhaps your assumption about my assumption is off target?
If autism may encourage someone to become particularly skilled in specific areas which can be practised in solitude, perhaps people with autism would get very good at other skills in the past which they could do on their own..
Yes, it's possible. Do you have a hypothesis about what it would be? If true, though, it would seem to invalidate Tyler's hypothesis that autism is so disadvantageous that it kills off autistics in primitive environments before they can be observed.
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OK, so you think there are other brain abnormality symptoms of autism, but you don't know what they are, right?
Yes, but the harmful mutations don't normally persist for generations--it's generally the beneficial or relatively benign ones that do. Mutations that kill off infants quickly, as you hypothesized, tend to die out rapidly and new ones take their place, with relatively beneficial ones persisting into further generations.
This is a false assumption. I mentioned, previously, that natural(usually unfavourable) mutations(in genes) regularly occur in every single generation, regardless of whether those with unfavourable mutations die out.
I haven't forgotten that natural mutations occur, I just also haven't forgotten what I was taught in biology that most mutations don't persist generation after generation for millennia unless they provide some sort of advantage, with exceptions for disadvantageous mutations that don't much affect survival to reproductive age, though they tend to be limited to offspring of bottleneck populations, which doesn't appear to be the case with autism--but your hypothesis is that autism kills off infants quickly, so that doesn't explain it.
Again, a false assumption.The rate of mutations is constant even in healthy populations of wild animals fed on 100% raw diets. If, say, autism were a common mutation, even having autistic children usually dying in childhood before being able to breed wouldn't mean that autism would become less prevalent. Who knows, maybe mutations involving the (excessively large) human brain are extremely common?
Natural selection pressures have reduced in recent centuries, so perhaps another possibility is that autism is a recent mutation that hasn't had enough time and selection pressure to be eliminated? Shouldn't we expect the rates of autism to be declining, though? Even if we factor out overdiagnosis, I don't get the sense that it's declining.
Quite the contrary. The very fact that natural selection has died out means that autism rates should be going through the roof, as, in previous times, autistic children would have been eliminated via infanticide well before they could breed.
This seems in conflict with your earlier hypothesis that autistic infants die quickly after birth in primitive societies, unless you're also saying that autism is a recent mutation with advantages in modern society.
Again, false assumptions as usual. I merely suggested that 1 remote possibility might be that the genes for autism might lead to a larger(ie more intelligent human brain) in some cases, whereas , in (most) other cases, it would lead to a seriously oversized brain, with serious autistic symptoms etc. This could mean autism has been around for a very long time.
Some like Temple Grandin think that autism may provide an advantage that would explain why its genes survive--namely, advanced math and computer ability. This would only appear to be a significant advantage in modern society, so she seems to be suggesting that it is a recent mutation(s). Notice also how the article says that autism is "partly genetic", not completely.
Autism simply cannot be a recent, frequent mutation. For something like autism to occur it either has to have occurred from very early on in human history(regardless of diet), or it would have had to have originated in a tiny bottleneck of a specific human population in very recent times, and somehow spread out to the rest of the world. Impossibly unlikely.
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The human brain is truly a freak of nature, and the genetic mutations that make it possible are very recent and and exist on a razors edge of genetic checks and balances. The Genesis and maintenance of the most complex living structure in the known universe(the human brain) is a very precarious endeavor on the part of the DNA and error is inevitable. The mutations that gives us genus also allow for our decent into madness. Autism might be a sign of the breaking down of this house of cards.
Whether it is because of man made damage or a natural breakdown is the great controversy here, the truth may lay somewhere between.
Because those negatively afflicted with mild autism can still breed, they pass on the genes that could lead to more sever afflictions, or perhaps an autistic mind could lead to a positive condition such as the autistic savant.(Einstein may have been boarderline autistic) discovering what goes wrong with the autistic mind could lead us into the opposite direction which is to develop the human mind to its ultimate
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Ah, too bad, Tyler. You went back to mostly spouting opinions instead of providing evidence. However, you did refute Temple Grandin rather well. I agree with you on that. While Temple has done some admirable work, I think she's on the wrong track there.
Whether it is because of man made damage or a natural breakdown is the great controversy here, the truth may lay somewhere between.
I see no contradiction there and it sounds like we agree. Both genetics and environment are at work in humans from the moment of conception unto death.
Because those negatively afflicted with mild autism can still breed, they pass on the genes that could lead to more sever afflictions, or perhaps an autistic mind could lead to a positive condition such as the autistic savant.(Einstein may have been boarderline autistic) discovering what goes wrong with the autistic mind could lead us into the opposite direction which is to develop the human mind to its ultimate
Except that, according to Tyler, in a HG society the autistic infants die off quickly, so they never get the chance to reproduce.
Autistic savants can be productive in the modern world, but the case for that gets trickier in a HG society and Stone Age days. Under Tyler's hypothesis, autistic HG youths never get a chance to grow up, much less become productive. I'm not taking any stands myself on the autism question, but I do sniff magical thinking in Tyler's 100% genetic speculations and opinions and I'm skeptical of Temple's hypothesis as well. Not that Tyler's magic couldn't be good magic. ;)
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I believe in magic ;)
I have been toying with theory's about the intelligence of the DNA and its drive to survive
Perhaps humanity is moving towards a new age where the hive mentality is the preferable model so that the Jack of all trade/ man of the world model is dieing off and being replaced by autistic androids who can be more specialized, allthough less pragmatic and nothing like the hunter gatherer, (which we all revere)
This is the new phase of human evolution(or degeneration). I am not being outrageous here. There is something occurring that needs to be investigated with an open mind.
Studies show an across the board decline in IQ of 10 t0 20 points, universally in developed nations. I see near sighted kids with loopy disinterested dispositions, everywhere. This is where humanity is headed, since independent minded, intelligence and self reliance is no longer required for survival our epegentic expression's are beginning to disregard those traits and allowing them to fade out. Our DNA reacts to the environment and this brave new world is creating a new type of man; a man that I think is a shadow of his past greatness. Autism prevalence is only one of many phenomenon that can be looked on as evidence of this woefull trend.
So, we are beset by our own decadence and now must rely more heavily on technology to help cope with the genetic decay.
I believe that these trends can be overcome by the spirit of life, which fights against degeneration and is capable of DNA reconstruction,
But with all the mad science that has been let lose along with intentional poisoning of the food water supply by the hidden hands of tyranny, I am a little uncertain about the future of the neo paleos like ourselves and our ability to protect our progeny against these afflictions like autism.
(digression)
Its scary when your 18 month old first born son gets a viral infection that lingers off and on and he starts to act a little different and his eyes dialate: he also got some viral episode where his hip locked up
everything seemed to fade although he seems to have hyperactive episodes from time to time
It makes you wonder how much damage these things do. And then paranoid parrents like me read articles that say that measles and herpes 6 is found in the brains of autistic people(my brother had a severe reaction to the Measles shot (ITP) an developed seizures in later childhood. The more I study the more I believe these paranoid delusions that there are methods being deployed by design to bring about a quickening in the evolution of the autistic androids.
We are being culled!!!!whether or not its by scientific design or scientific ignorance; it is something most would rather not consider. -X
Fools rush in where angles fear to tread.( I ware this madness on my sleeve) ;)
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Well, PP, you certainly haven't been able to counter effectively the various points I made as to why autism is an issue now whereas HG societies would never have tolerated those afflicted with autism. The main point I was getting across, though, is that the autism epidemic is simply a myth, that diet cannot sort out autism, and that the vaccines-notions are bogus.
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TD Have you ever been accused of being argumentative? ;)
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TD Have you ever been accused of being argumentative? ;)
I'm simply leery of the many conspiracy-theories out there and wish to avoid snake-oil-like suggestions that diet can cure absolutely everything. 1 out of every 1,000 conspiracy-theories may well have some truth in them somewhere, but the vast majority such as the vaccines-nonsense are way overblown(I am aware that a very tiny percentage 0.00001 or something might get a reaction to vaccines but autism is something one gets well before the vaccine-stage, at the very least).
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Broken record time ;)
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my brothers adverse reaction was never reported, neither were all the secondary infections I contracted within two weeks of each childhood vaccination, the asthma I suffered etc..
you cant play god with the immune system without adverse reaction.
I SEE THESE THINGS WITH MY OWN EYES, MAYBEE VACIENSE ARE MORE TOLEATED BY THE BRITISH. I LIVE IN KENTUCKY AND THE DAMAGED ARE ALL AROUND ME AND NOne OF US EVER MAKES IT INTO YOUR .00001 THEORY
The numbers are cooked My wife's grandmother got cancer from the first polio shots that contain es sv40(documented)
Many developed shingles years after the smallpox shots, people I personaly know
My grandmother was 13 when injected and she told me she didnt feel right afterwards
These viruses cause the genetic mutations that allow secondary infections with the geneticaly altered retrovirus that cause things like autism, these are binary weapons that
since there are more than one factor involved there is always plausible deniability.
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TD: you certainly haven't been able to counter effectively the various points I made
- I'm not particularly interested to work on detailed countering of your more extreme opinions that are outside the bounds of science. Where you've been reasonable I've actually agreed with you. I also noticed that you haven't countered any of the more reasonable opinions of Dr. Hyman that I cited other than by sidestepping them with comments to the effect that she has to say those things (implying she is lying, which undercuts your use of her as a source to support your claims).
TD: the autism epidemic is simply a myth
- I agree there has been a change in how it's reported, but it's difficult to ferret out how much of the increase is due to that and how much might be due to environmental factors affecting epigenetics, such as diet, nutrition and lifestyle. To assume based on a study or two and your opinions and assumptions that the entire increase can be written off to changes in reporting and that all other potential variables can be assumed to be nonfactors would be incautious and unscientific and I don't know of a single scientist who does this--and Dr. Hyman certainly doesn't do this. If the increase is due solely to changes in reporting, then we should expect to see autism spectrum rates level off in the near future, unless reporting criteria and methods change dramatically again. I agree with Dr. Hyman that we need more research and that it is OK for parents to carefully try an RPD if they wish. After all, it provides benefits irrespective of any possible effect it might have on the disorders of the autism spectrum, or what you term its minor "issues" and "side effects". If it only helps with the "issues" and "side effects" of the autism spectrum, I can't imagine a parent who wouldn't want that, can you? Don't let your commitment to your hypothesis blind you to the bigger picture.
TD: diet cannot sort out autism
- I don't know what you mean by a vague word like "sort out" and you have a habit of interpreting such vague terms as suits you, with subtle changes as needed. Dr. Hyman remains open minded about potential benefits from dietary therapy and that seems like a reasonable perspective to me, at least until there has been more thorough research. I take no firm stand on the issue, but I do see ruling it out in absolutist fashion as an unscientific step at this time. I can understand trying to discourage reckless adoption of AV's claims and views on autism, but I think you've gone way overboard.
TD: the vaccines-notions are bogus
- I agree and I think the evidence on that is now sufficiently strong that it's a waste of time to spend significant resources pursuing that angle when there are other more promising angles to pursue, like customized raw Paleo diets. However, it is interesting that single dose vaccines free of thimerosal are again becoming available in this country and given the choice between a vaccine containing thimerosal and one that is thimerosal-free, I would choose the latter (based on the precautionary principle, the simplicity principle, the experience principle and the biological template/milieu principle).
No scientist claims to know what all the genes and epigenetics involved in autism are and none claim to know with certainty what all its underlying causes are, so that alone is worth further research. Surely you can at least agree on that?
TD: I'm simply leery of the many conspiracy-theories out there and wish to avoid snake-oil-like suggestions that diet can cure absolutely everything.
- Agreed, diet cannot "cure absolutely everything." Has anyone here said that it can? Yet another straw man. Your capacity for producing straw men is amazing, but not surprising.
Broken record time ;)
Bingo!
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TD: you certainly haven't been able to counter effectively the various points I made
- I'm not particularly interested to work on detailed countering of your more extreme opinions that are outside the bounds of science.
That's hypocrisy as you are a big fan of the "false autism epidemic", which is a notion deried by scientists in the mainstream.
Where you've been reasonable I've actually agreed with you. I also noticed that you haven't countered any of the more reasonable opinions of Dr. Hyman that I cited other than by sidestepping them with comments to the effect that she has to say those things (implying she is lying, which undercuts your use of her as a source to support your claims).
You merely "reinterpreted" what Dr Hyman was saying to a certain extent. For example, when she merely made qualifying remarks re autism and diet, which were merely a standard scientific attempt to avoid being too dogmatic, rather than an endorsement of such a view.
TD: the autism epidemic is simply a myth
- I agree there has been a change in how it's reported, but it's difficult to ferret out how much of the increase is due to that and how much might be due to environmental factors affecting epigenetics, such as diet, nutrition and lifestyle. To assume based on a study or two and your opinions and assumptions that the entire increase can be written off to changes in reporting and that all other potential variables can be assumed to be nonfactors would be incautious and unscientific and I don't know of a single scientist who does this--and Dr. Hyman certainly doesn't do this. If the increase is due solely to changes in reporting, then we should expect to see autism spectrum rates level off in the near future, unless reporting criteria and methods change dramatically again. I agree with Dr. Hyman that we need more research and that it is OK for parents to carefully try an RPD if they wish. After all, it provides benefits irrespective of any possible effect it might have on the disorders of the autism spectrum, or what you term its minor "issues" and "side effects". If it only helps with the "issues" and "side effects" of the autism spectrum, I can't imagine a parent who wouldn't want that, can you? Don't let your commitment to your hypothesis blind you to the bigger picture.
I'm basing it on numerous studies and analyses of data which show conclusively that autism diagnoses-rates have gone straight up while previous diagnoses for similiar conditions ahve gone straight down. This is a fact.
As for curing non-autism-relared conditions such as digestive disorder, I have no issues with people claiming that an RPD diet can help people with digestive disorders or mood or similiar non-autistic trait. But it would be criminally irresponsible for someone to claim that a rawpalaeodiet could help people with autism in a small way, as that would imply that a rawpalaeodiet could cure or relive autism.
TD: diet cannot sort out autism
- I don't know what you mean by a vague word like "sort out" and you have a habit of interpreting such vague terms as suits you, with subtle changes as needed. Dr. Hyman remains open minded about potential benefits from dietary therapy and that seems like a reasonable perspective to me, at least until there has been more thorough research. I take no firm stand on the issue, but I do see ruling it out in absolutist fashion as an unscientific step at this time. I can understand trying to discourage reckless adoption of AV's claims and views on autism, but I think you've gone way overboard.
Not at all, Indeed, I have been specifically avoiding the dubious, extreme claims that people in the autism-cure movement have been making re vaccines being wholely blamed despite autism being blamed on genes by scientists - and then there are mercury-claims in general, chelation-therapy and similiar nonsense. I have been careful to make clear that since autism is related to changes in the brain , well before birth , that autism cannot be cured or relieved after birth. Now, if you were to tone down your extremist claims and suggest that a rawpalaeodiet by both parents might lead to fewer chances of birth-defects in the next generation, and therefore a possible drop in the chances of their children getting autism, that would be OK, as the science of epigenetics could explain some aspects of autism. But anything more than that is simply not supported by science.
TD: the vaccines-notions are bogus
- I agree
Well, that at least is something.
Agreed, diet cannot "cure absolutely everything." Has anyone here said that it can? Yet another straw man. Your capacity for producing straw men is amazing, but not surprising.
The mere fact that you could even suggest that a rawpalaeodiet could cure or relieve autism means that you clearly believe that a rawpalaeodiet can cure almost anything. Autism is about as irreversible as one can get, barring regrowth of limbs and the like.
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the vast majority such as the vaccines-nonsense are way overblown(I am aware that a very tiny percentage 0.00001 or something might get a reaction to vaccines but autism is something one gets well before the vaccine-stage, at the very least).
Reactions to vaccines sure are common, so if you mean that the warnings regarding dangers of vaccinations in general are overblown, then you're mistaken. I have a big scar from a childhood vaccination, and my mom got a serious reaction from her TBE vaccination so she said she'll never do it again. Of course we didn't report those, and I'm sure most people don't report them...
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That's hypocrisy as you are a big fan of the "false autism epidemic", which is a notion deried by scientists in the mainstream.
Nonsense. I'm not a "big fan of the 'false autism epidemic'", I just agree with Dr. Hyman that we shouldn't rule out that there might be more to autism than pure genetics. Based on what you've been writing, you apparently disagree with Dr. Hyman and myself on this, but if you wish to join us and the rest of the scientific community in acknowledging that environmental factors have not been ruled out, feel free.
You merely "reinterpreted" what Dr Hyman was saying to a certain extent. For example, when she merely made qualifying remarks re autism and diet, which were merely a standard scientific attempt to avoid being too dogmatic, rather than an endorsement of such a view.
I didn't reinterpret her words, you mischaracterized mine. For the last time, stop doing that! Stop trying to read more into my words than is there. This is a habit of yours not only with my posts, but with those of others as well.
But it would be criminally irresponsible for someone to claim that a rawpalaeodiet could help people with autism in a small way, as that would imply that a rawpalaeodiet could cure or relive autism.
No it wouldn't, saying that "a rawpalaeodiet could help people with autism in a small way" means just what it says and nothing more. It's only you who try to read into that extreme comments like "that would imply that a rawpalaeodiet could cure or relive autism". This is a figment of your imagination--at least when it comes to me and I suspect with at least some others here as well. I don't know why you don't even seem to be trying to understand this. Why not ask me questions about what I mean instead of making extreme assumptions. Remember the old joke, when you ass-u-me, you make an ass out of "u" and me.
The rest was more of the same--extreme misrepresentations, lies and nonsense not worth responding to further. I'll excuse this behavior of yours because of your history re: a false Asperger's diagnosis and because I don't think you're even aware that you misunderstand and misrepresent people's words and because you at least provided an interesting link or two. However, it is getting tiresome and I know other people who got tired of it and gave up trying to communicate with you, and others have expressed their dissatisfaction with related matters in this and other threads, and there are likely others I'm not aware of. You're intelligent and provide some useful info at times, but please try to think about human factors like communications, understanding, empathy and the like. I recommend the advice of Stephen Covey, who says it's wise to "seek first to understand" before you seek to be understood. I'm not perfect about this either, but I like to think I at least try.
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The scientific mainstream appears to be convinced of the genetic causes of autism:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10275332
So, the environmental aspect is clearly not taken seriously by scientists as a whole.
As for claiming that "a rawpalaeodiet could help people with autism in a small way", that is obviously fraudulent as it very clearly implies that an autistic person's autistic condition can be somehow improved, however slightly. It would be far more honest to simply state that most people benefit from a rawpalaeodiet in terms of improved digestion and give numerous examples of people being cured of chronic fatigue etc. There's no need to mention the word autism at all.
I note no one has, as yet, made a genuine claim to have cured their autism as a result of a rawpalaeodiet, or any other diet).
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Parasitologist Dr. Omar Amin says he has evidence that some autism is caused by yeast overgrowth.
It's in this radio interview.
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/health_-_podcasts/health_challenges_%28diseases%29/itentifying_and_killing_parasites_on_the_morning_show,_thursday_9_am_central_201008181838/
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Well, I suppose the vaccines notions have been so discredited that almost anything else is being thought up, these days.
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This chart http://www.msgtruth.org/images/Theory%20of%20Autism-Simplified.pdf shows connection between autism and excessive free glutamate which is freely available in today's food (monosodium glutamate, gluten, yeast extracts etc.)
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There is 1 possibility that I can think of re autism:- as food becomes ever more highly processed, the processed diets of parents and even grandparents can have a future unpleasant effect on their children/grandchildren. Not necessarily autism-related but it's already been shown that grandparents who smoke have grandchildren with increased rates of asthma and so on.
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But they would also find that grandparents who smoke are more likely to have grandchildren who smoke, most likely.
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Explain this double standard
so why is it acceptable to say that grandparents who eat bad food could be harming their children ,
but its conspiracy to suggest that grandparents injected with monkey cancer DNA altering virus(sv40,Ect) pass on that genetic damage to their autistic progeny.
I agree that there is DNA damage occurring on all fronts(chromosomal Chaos is the new scourge)
Faulty DNA theory doesn't explain the how or way these genes are going AWOL.
There is a lot of evidence that proves that the last generations of vaccines were contaminated with monkey retro virus that cause these types of gene errors,
HIV was not the only retrovirus injected into people
These viruses are genetically altered cross species hybrids that were bred in vats of the foulest concoctions you could imagine.
The retrovirus like sv40, Epstein Barr, herpes 6, ect.... cause a chain reaction called reverse transcripties, where the DNA starts to reproduce in backward codes, which triggers autoimmune reactions and lasting DNA damage that can be passed on and be diagnosed as genetic flaws.
50% of the first women given the contaminated polio shot eventually developed breast cancer(who knows what kind of genetic damage they passed on.( my wife's grandmother got breast cancer 5 years after the shot when she was 35)She struggled with it for 10 years and died at 45
Cancer virus don't just cause cancer, they disrupt the factoring of the DNA,That is at the core of Flaw theory
I am not naive, there are many other factors involved in what causes the gentic damage, but If you look deep into the cover up you will find that the early vaccine trials on the Africans were horrendously brutal
Entire populations that rarely experienced cancer, were developing tumors and crippling immune dysfunction and death, within months of being vaccinated.
Epstein Barr was first discovered in the Jaw tumors of Africans who were receiving these experimental shots.
to bad no one cares to look at what really goes on over there (Its genocide)
Just because the crime was never documented and posted on a web site doesn't mean it didn't happen
There is a white wash going on and the only organizations who could expose it are the ones who work for the bastards that perpetrated these atrocities.( its been whitewashed)
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Well, I suppose the vaccines notions have been so discredited that almost anything else is being thought up, these days.
I side with the theory that vaccines directly cause autism by inducing strokes.
autistic children are stroke victims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_3_Nv-iSd4
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I had convulsions->unconsciousness etc type issues for years when I was younger, after being given the MMR vaccine/s.
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convulsions are a very common adverse reactions to vaccines,
my brother got( ITP an auto immune condition linked to measles) after the measles shot and developed seizures in later child hood. His case was never reported
The original chicken pox shot(bioengineering herpes) had to be altered because it caused a 2 fold incease in seizures
(my cousin got a seizure disorder shortly after receiving the shot)
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2008/03/mmr-chicken-pox-vaccine-more-seizures.html
I like how they call twice as many seizures a "slight increase"
The swine flu shot has caused a 5 fold increase in convulsions and other neurological disorders in children, and is now not recommended for children under 5
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7918351/Flu-jab-linked-to-fits-in-under-fives-officials.htm
Don't believe the Numbers given by the CDC, the problem is much greater than most want to believe
most reactions are relatively mild and never reported (that doesn't mean that damage does not occur)
These are the brain eatting bio weapons( its eugenics hidden in plain sight.)
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But they would also find that grandparents who smoke are more likely to have grandchildren who smoke, most likely.
No. I recall(99% sure) that the study deliberately focused on grandparents who smoked while their children(and grandchildren) didn't.
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Explain this double standard
so why is it acceptable to say that grandparents who eat bad food could be harming their children ,
but its conspiracy to suggest that grandparents injected with monkey cancer DNA altering virus(sv40,Ect) pass on that genetic damage to their autistic progeny.
No double-standard at all. Science is simply not enough advanced for a comprehensive attempt by secret forces to inject us with genetically-engineered viruses and without the matter being exposed by the media.
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what if those genetically engineered viruses were accidentally created by the process of vaccine production and not intentional additives, but hidden contaminates, It took years for the scientist to discover sv40 and even after it was proven to cause cancer in all animals it was tested in, it wasn't take out of the vaccine supply until the 1980s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
SV40 is believed to suppress the transcriptional properties of the tumor-suppressing p53 in humans through the SV40 Large T-antigen and SV40 Small T-antigen. p53 is responsible for initiating regulated cell death ("apoptosis"), or cell cycle arrest when a cell is damaged. A mutated p53 gene may contribute to uncontrolled cellular proliferation, leading to a tumor.
SV40 is one of hundreds of altered animal viruses shot into humans during the dark ages of vaccine production.
The media isn't omi present and the outlet of this information is restricted by the government labs that produce these vaccines, This is all documented, its just suppressed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaokq8v9JPI&feature=related
this sums up my sentiments on the subject
If you want the whole story watch the whole documentary(in lies we trust)
Dr. Sabin who created the polio vaccine admits it was contaminated with cancer virus
listen to this mad scientist calmly discuss the reality of the situation. I don't think the Rothschild's will ever show this interview on your television Aha.(main stream media also says you will die if you eat raw meat)
I am still in disbelief my self at the degree that the cover up has been effective in keeping even the most well informed in the dark
Evil doesn't always have to be completely deliberate to be evil, The fact is, that the people who released this poison on us on accident isn't evil in itself. What is evil is the cover up that occurred once the scientist found out that their miracle drugs where dangerous poisons that should have been taken off the market. Instead they covered their tracks and kept doing it
Not only that, but the huge profits that have been reaped by the same pharmaceutical companies trying to treat the conditions they are responsible for causing.(Its the farming of human suffering)
No one should be able to profit from this type of enterprize
The whole thing disgust me, and whats worse very few people realize the total corruption involved
btw I BELIEVE WITH THE NEW TECHNOLOGY OF GENE SEQUENCING THERE IS NOW THE CABABILITY TO DILIBERATLY DESIGHN VIRAL AGENCTS TO ALTER THE POPULATION IN WAYS THAT ARE DISIRED BY THOSE WHO CONTROL SUCH TECHNOLOGY I'm sorry its just my belief I wish not to confuse or offend anybody here , there is just so much we all do not know, its scary.
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There are far more believable conspiracy-theories out there, quite frankly.
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There are far more believable conspiracy-theories out there, quite frankly.
Like yours... : )
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Like yours... : )
Mine, however, isn't remotely a conspiracy-theory, it is "just" a standard view held by most scientists in the world, right now, that autism is primarily gene(or epigenetics-)-related.
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If most scientist in the world jumped off a bridge would you follow :P
Most scientist are compartmentalized stooges of the universities that are run by the big money foundations. Just like the doctor in the video was a lower level henchman who didn't even know the whole story. The higher up overseeres of Merck also run the bio weapons labs for the government, they are run by the same people.With all the scientist kept in their separate compartments most never are privy to the who truth.
do you deny what the good doctor said in the video
There is no way for the scientific comunity to test whether the genetic changes involved in autism could have resulted from epigenic changes induced by contaminated vaccines (this is the point I make, all the details about who knew what and evil eugenicist are just the back drop I use to give this theory more shock value
Regardless of the human dramas involved, There is genetic damage occurring and no one is 100% sure why.
So when I find evidence that these contaminated shots are pr oven to cause genetic damage, I feel obligated to bring it into the forrum. No one has disputed the facts in( the truth about lies) in a way that puts my mind at ease.
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TD, that article you cited (Study identifies 'many more' autism genes, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10275332) includes the following:
> "It has been known for some time that autism has a strong genetic influence"
> "Research into autism is constantly evolving but the exact causes are as yet still unknown."
> "The difficulty of establishing gene involvement is compounded by the interaction of genes with the environment."
...which is exactly what I have been expressing all along--that genetics is a major part of the picture but doesn't explain everything, that there is also an environmental component and that neither the genetic nor environmental components are as yet fully understood (if they ever will be). So if you actually agree with this, then I commend your abandoning of the extreme purely-genetic/no-possible-environmental-influence viewpoint and welcome you back to the fold of reasonable discourse. Unfortunately, this following quote of yours suggests you may have missed these points from your own source...
TD: "So, the environmental aspect is clearly not taken seriously by scientists as a whole."
This appears to contradict what I quoted from your source. How do you overcome this apparent contradiction?
TD: "I note no one has, as yet, made a genuine claim to have cured their autism as a result of a rawpalaeodiet, or any other diet)."
Right, which is one reason why I haven't claimed that RPD cures autism, and I still wouldn't even if someone had claimed to have done so. Yet another straw man--at least as far as what I've posted. If someone else claims they have a 100% cure for autism then they can argue that with you.
Mine, however, isn't remotely a conspiracy-theory, it is "just" a standard view held by most scientists in the world, right now, that autism is primarily gene(or epigenetics-)-related.
At least you qualified your claim with the words "primarily", "epigenetics" and "related". That's some small progress that I can commend you on. Plus, we are getting more of the conspiracy stuff in this thread that I don't care for any more than your original opposite extreme reaction. Methinks the truth lies somewhere in-between.
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I'm siding more with Tyler on this one, that many illnesses and mutations indeed exist in nature without the requirement of any man made substances. We have DEFINITIVE proof of this in cases of cancer (found in dinosaurs), chromosomal issues (whether autism or retardation exists specifically I do not know) and certainly homosexuality. Whether these issues can be EXACERBATED or found to distort pre-existing genetic expressions by modern toxins I believe is an entirely different story and likely true. Just about everyone has been vaccinated and a huge percent have amalgams and have taken all kinds of antibiotics and absorbed all kinds of junk that should have never been legal to put in food, air and water. Many of these people don't have any acute symptoms of such illness. Instead of thinking emotionally, if one gauges the probability of how these things resulted I would have to guess that most of these decisions were based on convenience and ignorance rather than other evils, particularly because they effect the 'doers' life and offspring as well. I guess I differ somewhat with autism in that I believe all manner of ailments should be possible to reverse through a variety of healing paths with the bulk of it being diet.
all the talk about eugenics and all this stuff, its just total speculation tinged with paranoia and unhealthy thinking. Over the years I've noticed on boards the same people just pick up one idea after another, its a really unfortunate addiction and poisonous mindset.
I certainly believe there are people with motive and even plans to depopulated the planet and do otherwise awful things to keep people stupid and at their least potential and to just be passive consumers. The whole nature of the economy is based on capitalizing on that. So much is at stake and results in carrying and creating momentum in that system at all costs, which means any opposition (to medicine as just one applicable example) will be squashed indeed with malice including information attack. Its no conspiracy. A conspiracy is literally a large group of multiple individuals or organizations meeting together to carry out a goal. I personally find this kind of stuff embarrassing that it consistently pops up in discussions with highly intelligent people, and its sad that people can think that just fighting against conventional wisdom means they are not under the information sorcery of some other interested party, some others motive. Motives aren't proof, in no court is motive enough to convict somebody based on the fact that they have something to gain, this is just a starting point for intensive investigation, not a point of serious argument
In another forum they were going on about the whole Bill Gates AIDS donations. If I try, I can believe that Bill Gates could potentially be a crappy enough person to single handedly wipe out an entire continent with updated 'pox infected blankets'. What I'm not willing to be believe is that he's a good enough actor to stand up in a room and consciously know everything he was doing had the consequences that the same conspiracy theorists rail about. I bet if you asked him and the majority of people what they believe they would say that vaccinations are helpful. Just because we might 'know' they are not, doesn't mean the rest of the world equally has a similar view. I've heard before that doctors don't get their kids vaccinated. I've done some light research in the past on this and that seems to be not the case. Do the "elite's" children go to boarding school in some pollution-free Shangri-la where they learn the real truth about raw meat nutrition and bacteria, and all the other esoteric truths they keep from us? Or on closer look do they have children that are gay, have MS, or are overweight from diabetes.
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theres that straw man again , no one debate that sv40 as injected into people and it along with other poisons in vaccines have caused damage, whether or not its deliberate doesn't take away from the resulting causalities, Those hamsters shot up with the sv40 shots extracted from the Merck seed stock just developed tumors naturally.. ha debate the issue of retrovirus induced DNA damage I care not for the conspiracies either, but when the man behind the curtain speaks someone should listen.
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I'm siding more with Tyler on this one, that many illnesses and mutations indeed exist in nature without the requirement of any man made substances. We have DEFINITIVE proof of this in cases of cancer (found in dinosaurs), chromosomal issues (whether autism or retardation exists specifically I do not know) and certainly homosexuality. Whether these issues can be EXACERBATED or found to distort pre-existing genetic expressions by modern toxins I believe is an entirely different story and likely true.
Then you basically agree with me, KD, and your last sentence appears to actually disagree with Tyler. My point in this thread has never been that genetics play no role in autism--I believe they almost certainly play a very important role--only that environmental factors cannot currently be ruled out. Whereas Tyler's posts seem to suggest that autism itself cannot be seriously exacerbated by any environmental factor--at least his early posts--and that any seeming exacerbations must be due to other unrelated minor issues, not really the "autism" itself--at least not his definition of autism, which (based on the criteria I was able to draw out of him, which was like pulling teeth) appears to be a very severely limited definition I have not seen elsewhere.
I guess I differ somewhat with autism in that I believe all manner of ailments should be possible to reverse through a variety of healing paths with the bulk of it being diet.
There you dramatically disagree with Tyler and you go much further in making positive claims for dietary therapy than I did. So your view there is more antithetical to Tyler's than mine.
all the talk about eugenics and all this stuff, its just total speculation tinged with paranoia and unhealthy thinking.
This is where you appear to agree with Tyler--on the distaste for conspiracy theories--and it actually happens to be a distaste that I share. So again we agree.
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Autism is a hack quack term that describes a type of brain damage that manifest itself in a number of mental afflictions.
My bet is its cause by brain eating bio weapon's
It is my gut feeling that this has been designed to keep highly intelligent people from developing the higher states of consciousness which would to break free from the tyranny we are being born into.
Its a way to poke out the third eye.
These are the brain eatting bio weapons( its eugenics hidden in plain sight.)
The media isn't omi present and the outlet of this information is restricted by the government labs that produce these vaccines, This is all documented, its just suppressed
I don't think the Rothschild's will ever show this interview on your television Aha.(main stream media also says you will die if you eat raw meat)
I am still in disbelief my self at the degree that the cover up has been effective in keeping even the most well informed in the dark
The whole thing disgust me, and whats worse very few people realize the total corruption involved
btw I BELIEVE WITH THE NEW TECHNOLOGY OF GENE SEQUENCING THERE IS NOW THE CABABILITY TO DILIBERATLY DESIGHN VIRAL AGENCTS TO ALTER THE POPULATION IN WAYS THAT ARE DISIRED BY THOSE WHO CONTROL SUCH TECHNOLOGY I'm sorry its just my belief I wish not to confuse or offend anybody here , there is just so much we all do not know, its scary.
I certainly got the impression that there was nefarious deliberate involvement. FWIW its certainly important to me if people intentionally harm my body or by accident/ignorance. The idea that vaccines and other various toxins cannot reak serious havoc on individuals is not really in dispute, its whether these things unilaterally result in disease, which going by the numbers it does not. This highly points to some kind of predisposition, or at the very least a combination of similar unhealthy factors.
PP@ yeah, I havn't really read all the posts to know your views. My last post was indeed the caveat where I differed. I should have emphasized more that this remains in the theoretical, and the peoples expectations should certainly be long-term and in some cases: a long shot. Particularly for brain stuff.
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....PP@ yeah, I havn't really read all the posts to know your views. My last post was indeed the caveat where I differed.
OK, if you read the whole thread I think that you'll find that your differences with Tyler are enormous and the views you expressed actually come much closer to my own.
I should have emphasized more that this remains in the theoretical, and the peoples expectations should certainly be long-term and in some cases: a long shot. Particularly for brain stuff.
Yes, that more careful statement comes closer to my approach--which is to remain cautious, to not to expect miracles, and to not claim there are cures, but to also not rule out any possible significant benefits from any therapies, as Tyler seems to have done in some of his posts. In other words, cautious but open-minded in a scientific way. Science doesn't deal in absolute rule-outs any more than it does absolute rule-ins.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to request if a Motion to Reconsider can be made to change my vote to supporting one PaleoPhil of Vermont's legislation to a moderate stance regarding the multifactorial nature of diease. I believe he shares my belief that although diet and evironment can play a large role in creating or curing disease that one should not depend on such or any other cause, preventative, or treatment - no matter how natural or poisoious- as the sole determining factor in the creation of disease or to reset the equilibrium of health.
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I will make some digressions and try to tone down the maniacal rhetoric, Just
realize it stems from a belief that many people in my family have been harmed by vaccines(I know)
Its possible because of some faulty genes or what not ,but take into consideration that different tribes of people were designed to live under different circumstances and that a shot that is harmless to you may be devastating to me, there needs to be more research done so that those prone to bad reactions can be given safer alternatives.
I have native American blood in me and just as the native Americans where devastated by the white mans diseases, perhaps My family is being devastated by the white mans medical magic while the average European pure blood person may be unaffected
My contention is that I wasn't given a choice this was forced on me and I can not take it back
My ancestors lived healthy lives without the white mans poison and that opportunity was stolen form me (Its a mater of liberty and Ideals as well as what is deemed best by the lab coat class. So please don't missunderstand my spirit in this fight. Remember that before Columbus there were 60 million natives living in Harmony with out these concoctions; yes life was sometimes brutal and unfair sometimes but at least they were free.
Genetic engineering I fear has the potential to do great harm whether or not autism can be linked to it or not, may be another issue. please understand there is no where to run from this new invasion,
My concern is that the genie is out of the bottle now and we may never be able to live and evolve as nature would intend, now that the majority of humanity is being altered by these artificial agents, and polluted with who knows what, and there is a sweeping under the rug of those afflicted with the new emerging conditions, I don't trust the numbers given out by the ones considered to be authorities or the explanations as to how the trends should be accepted as normal,(the price we pay for technology)
I wish to leave the reservation as one of a thousand points of light that will lead the way to a freer place, I might be wrong about the details of the world of mans powerstructure, but I am right about more pressing things, like the free spirits of my wife and children which I feel are threatened by that structure even if I cant articulate in the newspeak required by society, what the True nature of the danger may be, Its my intuition that tells me what is good and bad, not abstract scientific statistics or social commentary alone
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I certainly wouldn't want to diminish your experiences and your families. I have had my own frustrations (to put it lightly) with medical treatments and probably all sorts of decisions by my parents and requirements from institutions and so forth that contributed to poor health. If I was even less luckily I might have been born into a family that freebased heroin and fed me purple drink and ketchup. Chalk this up to past life karma or general unfairness of the universe. What I figured out in my case, was that even in the areas where I could probably even cite legal irresponsibility (in my adult treatments) there was/is pretty much nothing to gain for me in focusing on that, short of understanding that I will have different needs then someone else.
I think of it like this, if one's goal is to convince people that something is bad, all (ha) you really need to do is convince them through example. Yes that means reciting SOME specifics (hopefully facts) about the wrongs (of the world, of the thing etc..) but also more importantly showing some example of what someone can actually do about it. From the sense of the posts I've read you do alot of the latter, so that is good. Most people already have a sense that there is pretty much nothing they can do about things, and then there are those who's faith rests entirely in the medical model or I suppose in government etc...who neither need more reason to be discouraged nor to feel more powerless.
I don't think distrust really is a problem, unless one becomes incapable of having some basic faith in humanity AND that large percentage of problems is just unmotivated non predetermined fuck ups. Knowledge is power, but the idea that everything is destroyed and we are headed for an apocalyptic nightmare and all the other specific conspiracies don't exactly inspire me to make long term strategies for health, particularly if they arn't easy or are shunned by such conventional traps.
The way I see it, most genetic engineering and bio/nanotechnology is totally inevitable yes, but the idea that there is 'no where to run' and other such things I will argue again serves very little purpose as a thought. At the very least, like pharmaceuticals, these things will probably bring about the increasing longevity of acute cases, but with a sacrifice of quality of life. With the nano stuff there is possibility potential for much more but of course a potential for things to get completely out of hand. Like anything else however, since it is inevitable ( no matter how much political or physical destruction to its process) I can only accept it as just another change in reality, neither good nor bad.
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I think a lot of people like me feel powerless about things we cannot control, or we thrash out blindly at those people and ideas that seem to exert a negative energy over us. I know that most people are just as hopeless and lost about the mysteries involved in dread diseases like autism as I am.
The Ideal that there is nowhere to run and that we cant head for the hills as my ansesters did in the great depression, isn't a decree of powerlessness it is meant to say that we must make a stand and work to put a short leash on this uncontrollable technology that is now in the hands of people who do not comprehend the danger. To warn the people and ride out like Paul Revere should not be looked on as fear mongering or misanthropic fatalism. Its a battle cry, tyranny was never totally vanquished during the revolution, it was only kept at bay, every day is a revolution and we are all responsible keeping the light(one if by land two if by sea the British are coming the British are coming)
Tyranny isn't always the deliberate will of the evil spirit, it is also the ignorance of misguided fools who allow the existence of such evil. I just don't want to be a part of either , but sadly the duality of action and inaction seems to leave me smack dab in the middle of it. I know I must do something even if I risk pissing off the Torys. believe it or not, I have practiced positive thinking and transcendentalism, Its just hard to keep you center when your burning with madness and sickness as I was Pre paleo
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Anyone even looked the chart I gave ? The thread is full on intelligent chit chat. But makes it all too complex. I admit I am quite stupid and shouldn't even be posting here.
But the theory of mine is that autism started to appear at the same time as Monosodium glutamate was introduced into food industry. http://www.truthinlabeling.org/IVhistoryOfUse.html
The cause of the Autism could be as simple as giving MSG to the developing fetus brain. As you all know MSG is Excitotoxicity (Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by glutamate and similar substances). Blood brain barrier won't stop developing until 6 weeks after birth. That's quite enough time to hit the brain with food industry. Monosodium Glutamate can pass BBB even in fully developed BBB. Also, quite few Vaccines have MSG in it. Nowadays autism is also treated with glutamate blockers.
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I will make some digressions and try to tone down the maniacal rhetoric, Just
realize it stems from a belief that many people in my family have been harmed by vaccines(I know)
Its possible because of some faulty genes or what not, but take into consideration that different tribes of people were designed to live under different circumstances and that a shot that is harmless to you may be devastating to me, there needs to be more research done so that those prone to bad reactions can be given safer alternatives.
I have native American blood in me and just as the native Americans where devastated by the white mans diseases, perhaps My family is being devastated by the white mans medical magic while the average European pure blood person may be unaffected My contention is that I wasn't given a choice this was forced on me and I can not take it back
My ancestors lived healthy lives without the white mans poison and that opportunity was stolen form me (Its a mater of liberty and Ideals as well as what is deemed best by the lab coat class. So please don't misunderstand my spirit in this fight. Remember that before Columbus there were 60 million natives living in Harmony with out these concoctions; yes life was sometimes brutal and unfair sometimes but at least they were free.
Genetic engineering I fear has the potential to do great harm whether or not autism can be linked to it or not, may be another issue. please understand there is no where to run from this new invasion,
My concern is that the genie is out of the bottle now and we may never be able to live and evolve as nature would intend, now that the majority of humanity is being altered by these artificial agents, and polluted with who knows what, and there is a sweeping under the rug of those afflicted with the new emerging conditions, I don't trust the numbers given out by the ones considered to be authorities or the explanations as to how the trends should be accepted as normal,(the price we pay for technology)
I wish to leave the reservation as one of a thousand points of light that will lead the way to a freer place, I might be wrong about the details of the world of mans powerstructure, but I am right about more pressing things, like the free spirits of my wife and children which I feel are threatened by that structure even if I cant articulate in the newspeak required by society, what the True nature of the danger may be, Its my intuition that tells me what is good and bad, not abstract scientific statistics or social commentary alone
Sabertooth
I have done some interesting reading lately on that subject and I would be willing to bet you are right on the money there. Apparently native American's were (are) all one blood type (O) as opposed to white man who are a variety. This was the reason why the initial estimates of how many NA there were before the WMs arrival were so low. Our diseases virtually wiped out millions and millions all over the continent and in most cases long before the WM even got to an area our diseases had passed along in front of us like a wave of pestilence. Initially it was thought there was maybe 500,000 NAs but now the estimates are making there way past 75 million and climbing depending on who you listen to. Whole villages were wiped out without a single shot from any WMs gun.
When the Spanish arrived in Central America there is speculation that one of their slaves, an African was sick coming over with (not sure which disease). This one patient passed on his disease to Central America (Incas) and their population went from something like 35 million to almost being wiped out. The Spanish could never had subdued them with their horses as they couldn't climb the steep cliffs to their settlements. It was disease not guns that did it.
I am not sure that life was any more brutal for the NA then it was for the WM at the time.
Regarding GMO I think that there is no good to come from that. The only thing to do there is run as fast as you can in the other direction. The Europeans have wisely decided exactly that. In North. Am. we are stuck with the s*^t. You cannot convince me that the persons making the decision to legalize that crap weren't on the take. To me that is a no-brainer.
The Mad Cow Disease is an interesting study on what we are capable of and what the consequences are. MCD causes symptoms similar to Alzheimers and it's effects don't show up for a long time. So nowadays with the meat processing system when meat is ground up for 100% all-beef patties by the burger emporium owned by a clown, ;) there are (I am led to believe) up to 50,000 lbs in the mixing vats which is a lot of beef. If only one cow had MCD then it is likely that the whole batch would be contaminated and therefore God only knows how many people would be infected with this problem and it is virtually untraceble. Who is going to remember the burger they had 10 years ago.
ST your wisdom shines through in your post. It's one thing to freely speculate about "conspiracy theories" but to live a real threat imposed by the outside speaks volumes. I think your intuition is correct. I wouldn't be interested in the opinion of the cold-hearted orb who said your intuition was incorrect. We all have the authority to keep ourselves free from disease.
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Sorry for this very long post but this is related to the ongoing discussion on vaccinations... Got this post from a Yahoo group.
Australia Bans Flu Vac- Kids Vomiting, Fevers, Seizures
http://www.myhealthytown.com/index.php?option=com_agora&task=topic&id=110&Itemid=55
(NaturalNews) Although it's still summer in North America, it is of course winter in Australia, and the flu season is well under way there. As usual, Australian health authorities have been urging parents there to vaccinate their children against the flu, propagating the mythology that flu vaccines are both safe and effective. But this time around, many Australian parents found out the hard way that they were being lied to.
It didn't take long to realize the truth after their children start going into convulsions following the flu vaccine injections. Other children began vomiting or exhibiting dangerously high levels of fever. One child has gone into a coma and may never recover.
As reported in WA Today (http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-vaccination-ban-goes-national-after-fever-convulsions-in-children-20100423-tglp.html?from=age_ft)
"Perth mother of two Bea Flint said her 11-month-old boy Avery had a seizure after receiving the first dose of the two-dose flu vaccination on Saturday. Mrs Flint said that after the 9am vaccination she noticed Avery had a minor temperature about 2pm. At 7.45pm, Avery started whimpering and moaning. When Mrs Flint got to his cot the baby had vomited and was lying on his side having a seizure. 'He couldn't cry - his head was hanging down in the car seat and he couldn't move. I was petrified - it was one of the worst experiences of my life."
The story goes on to say, "The doctor who treated Avery told Mrs Flint her baby was the fifth child with similar symptoms admitted to the hospital that day."
In other words, this was no rare event. Vaccinated children suffering severe convulsions were piling up in hospital emergency rooms across the country.
The real kicker, though, is that children started having convulsions two weeks ago but Australian health authorities ignored them, insisting that the vaccine was safe and causing it to be injected in yet more babies. Two weeks later, with dozens more children experiencing convulsions (and who knows how many thousands actually being harmed in less obvious ways), Commonwealth chief health officer Professor Jim Bishop finally announced the vaccination ban.
Remember: Health authorities in Australia, UK, the United States and everywhere else have relentlessly insisted that flu vaccines are perfectly safe and can't possibly harm anyone. In the U.S., the FDA has given its approval to the very same flu vaccine that's harming children in Australia, and the CDC has insisted that all children in the USA -- regardless of age -- should now be injected with this very same flu vaccine.
So now we've got a vaccine that Australia has banned by the USA somehow says is safe enough to inject into a six-month-old infant. How many convulsing babies will it take in the U.S. before American parents realize the truth about flu vaccines?
Chemically induced convulsions
As you're reading this, you may find yourself wonder, "Well, what could cause such convulsions in children?"
The answer is more terrifying than you might think, because it's not "weakened flu viruses" that vaccine manufacturer claim they put into the vaccines. A weakened flu virus doesn't send children into convulsions. Only a chemical can do that.
The chemical in question is one that's routinely added to most vaccines as a way to aggravate the immune system to respond to the presence of the weakened virus. It's called an "adjuvant" and consists of a highly inflammatory chemical that we now know may damage brain tissues and the nervous system. It is this adjuvant that most likely caused the convulsions in children.
Even in children who don't experience convulsions, there is speculation that this adjuvant may lead to future Alzheimer's disease or other neurological disorders. Vaccine manufacturers always attempt to downplay their use of adjuvant chemicals, and few media outlets focus on this important point, but it is the adjuvant that is most likely responsible for sending these Australian children into hospitals with convulsions.
Health authorities defend dangerous vaccine
One thing I've noticed about vaccine pushers is that they behave like irrational zealots. No matter how much evidence surfaces about the dangers of vaccines, they continue to mindlessly push them while ignoring the evidence.
A pediatric professor in Australia, Dr Peter Richmond, admitted that researchers were trying to figure out if the entire vaccine was dangerous, or if there was just a bad batch. But even before getting the answer to this question, he goes on to say that everybody over the age of five should go ahead and get injected with this same vaccine! (http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-vaccination-ban-goes-national-after-fever-convulsions-in-children-20100423-tglp.html?from=age_ft)
In other words, he's so convinced the vaccine is safe -- even after dozens of children were obviously harmed by it -- that he's still pushing the same dangerous vaccine onto everybody else!
This is precisely the kind of attitude reflected across the vaccine industry. Reports of children being harmed, or paralyzed, or hospitalized by vaccines are always written off as "coincidence." The mounting evidence is simply thrown out the window because it conflicts with the pro-vaccine agenda.
Can you imagine the outrage if an herbal product sent fifty kids to the hospital suffering from convulsions? Health authorities across the world would be quick to condemn the product, and they'd confiscate it right off the shelves while shutting down the operations of its manufacturer. But somehow when a vaccine does the same thing, these same health authorities urge people to keep on injecting their children with it!
It makes no sense. But then again, the vaccine industry was never based on rational thinking in the first place. If health authorities were truly rational, they'd be handing out vitamin D supplements to children instead of injecting them with vaccines, because vitamin D has been scientifically proven to provide better protection against the flu than vaccines. (http://www.naturalnews.com/029333_vitamin_D_flu_vaccines.html)
Of course, to ask health authorities to make rational decisions is sort of like asking politicians to start telling the truth. In the complicated world of profits and politics, rational, honest thinking just doesn't get any traction. It's far more profitable to keep lying to the world and raking in billions of dollars each year off dangerous vaccines, even as they continue to harm innocent children.
I often wonder... How many dead children will it take before parents wake up and realize that flu vaccines are dangerous? The answer may surprise you: Even a million dead children won't change the minds of most parents because they just do whatever they're told by health authorities, even if it makes no rational sense.
Most parents are so brainwashed by the medical system that they would gladly line up to have their babies injected with chemotherapy if they were told it was somehow necessary.
At some point, the parents whose babies are being harmed or potentially even killed by these vaccines can only blame themselves. They were the ones who brought their babies to be injected with a chemical adjuvant and viral fragments, and they should know better than to trust the government when it comes to health advice. The government, after all, still says that pharmaceutical chemicals are good for you while vitamins, herbs and natural remedies are dangerous. And it's the government that approved the very vaccines that are right now sending these children to the hospital.
Any parent that trusts the government with the health of their child is setting themselves up for catastrophe. And that catastrophe could very well cost them the life of their child.
Additional sources for this story include: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7918351/Flu-jab-linked-to-fits-in-under-fives-officials.html
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The reality can no longer be totally suppressed by the controlled media anymore about the true danger and magnitude of damage being done by vaccinations
India has put a ban after 4 cases of instant death within hours of the measles shots in children under 9 months. Children all over the world are developing neurological episodes and convulsions after vaccination
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-vaccination-ban-goes-national-after-fever-convulsions-in-children-20100423-tglp.html?from=age_ft
The adjevents are a key point in this discussion(i personaly belong to the thimerisol generation)
Studies done on animals in the 1920s conclusively proved that thimerisol was to toxic even for animal vaccines so why was it being injected into children 80 years later.
Do you honestly think that because they take the Mercury out and replace it with other toxic chemicals in vaccines that the problems will be resolved, these things are so unnatural and so anti paleo I don't see how it can be defended by anyone who reads into the subject.
I heard Mad Cow being brought up and I feel obligated to drop the knowledge bomb on the Mad Cow myth
Mad cow Disease was called Kuru by the Japanese during world war 2 where it was developed and experimented with as a bio weapon and unleashed on indigenous peoples.
http://rense.com/general46/force.htm
It was claimed that it was spread by the practice of cannibalism ,by the researchers who resumed scientific studies after the Japanese were evicted,and Carleton Gajdusek won the Nobel prize for his research on the new decease that would slowly ravage the brain( Clearly a red haring)This man Dr.gajdueke was a monster, a stooge, and and convicted child rapist, who professed that the decease originated because of cannibalism.
The disease didn't exist until the Japanese began their experiments with extracting it from sheep's brains and concentrating the prions and injecting it into the natives. Its a wasting disease that took 20 years to begin cause the mad cow type symptoms, so by the time the western nations intelligence operations took over the research on the stricken people they were able to spin the data and did not menton the Japanese experimentation's in their Nobel prize report,(a red herring) Even in the sheep's where the disease originated, it wasn't a disease causing agent in the sheep's until the sheep were experimented on in order to develop the toxic concentrations of this quasi viral(prion) agent that triggers the brain wasting. The sheep's were inoculated with astronomically high amounts of the brain eatting agents and once they became diseased their brains were used to cultivate the weapon, So yes the disease existed in the natural world, but man altered it into a deadly agent. This is whats being covered up. Stanley Prusiner won the Nobel prize in 1997(an other red fish) for the discovery of prions, which were believed to be a causality agent in mad cow, kuru and possibly Alzheimer's and other brain wasting conditions.
Now I am just giving food for thought here and there are many More ideas out there regarding the origin and cause of the Brain wasting illness that is defined by the presents of these Prions. Some believe that Prions are a result reaction to aberrant protein metabolism and are natural cleansing agents that feed off of already degenerated brain tissue, and real cause is the aberrant toxic protein build up in the Brain due to unnatural diet , such as cows being fed dead cooked sheep bi products. These aberrant proteins and quasi viral cleansing agents get passed on to the humans who eat the deceased animals and over time begin to develop brain wasting Alzheimer's, etc. There is also evidence that these brain wasting conditions are now occurring in younger people than ever so it could be from contaminated beef, It takes 20 or thirty years for the kuru to cause the madness, and Alzheimer's disease follows similar lines of progression.
Maybe an issue for a new thread, even though autism and brainwasting caused by aberrant protein cleansing agents could be connected.
Now there are many other theories out there about the The cause and origins
The official story is just a theory that somehow it spontaneously occurred in sheep in England and was given to cows by the disgusting practice of feeding sheep offal to cows, then the infected cows passed it on to humans. But it doesn't answer the questions of the true origin which is most likely contaminated livestock vaccines, about the time of the first outbreaks in livestock there was a lot of experimental and very poorly developed inoculations being given to farm animals as well as the practice of feeding them decayed flesh, and if you think there are issues with human vaccination and experimentation then there must have been severe contamination of these animal vaccines as well. There was no way at the time to inactivate all the other pathogenic agents that developed in the vats of poison where the viral and bacterial cultures where brewing. This isn't a theory there is conclusive evidence that the older generations of shots where contaminated with man made disease causing agents, and I will not be told other wise
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Regarding the position that autistic symptoms can (or cannot) be improved beyond non-related symptoms like digestion or mood, I am putting it to the test. Two months ago I became a caregiver for a 12 year old autistic girl. I (and 3 other members of my family) had recently had excellent success in quickly improving depression, sleep disorder, digestive upsets, and skin disorders with a program, mainly diet, which focuses on improving autism (GAPS). What it is actually doing is focusing on restoring gut health, which is why I decided to try it. A naturopath had diagnosed me and 2 of my daughters (through lab tests) with intestinal candida overgrowth and leaky gut syndrome. The naturopath's herbal and probiotic treatments didn't bring noticeable improvement so I started researching gut health on my own. The GAPS approach looked very promising so we tried it. It brought definite improvements within 6 to 8 weeks with continued gradual improvements. Because of this, when I took the caregiving job I mentioned our success to the girl's mother. Because it's a diet that claims to dramatically improve autism symptoms, the mother wanted to try it. We used the basic GAPS principles but made it ketogenic to possibly help reduce the girl's seizure. Two months into it we have:
- Huge reduction of seizures (from 8 to 12 strong seizures a day down to 1 to 2, with quicker recovery time
- Making sounds she used to make years ago but no longer did (she's been getting progressively worse over the years). When I first started with her the only sound she was making was screeching. like making sounds she used to make years ago but no longer did. When I first started with her the only sounds she was making was screeching. Now she makes "ssshhh
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Sorry, that comment posted itself while I was in the middle of writing it. To continue, she now makes other sounds. One of the first was "sshh". Her mother said she used to make that sound but hadn't in years. Then she started to make word-like sounds. Not clear words that we can understand, but they definitely sound like speaking. The last time I was with her she said "da da da da da da". This may not sound like much, but for her mother, it was a very emotional moment. She hadn't made that kind of babbling sound since she was 2 years old. She also began giving hugs, a behavior that had disappeared years ago. Because she has 6 different caregivers (she needs someone attending to her from the moment she wakes up until she goes to sleep) the program has not been strict because some of the caregivers give her "illegal things" or microwave her food (not allowed). We are trying to get everyone to follow the program. This is my first experience with an autistic child and it will be interesting to see where this goes, but we are already seeing some changes in autistic symptoms. These are not symptoms of digestion or mood.
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Thanks Angeline,
that's the response I was looking for when I started this thread. I am glad it lasted long enough for you to see and respond to it.
My health interest is Ayurveda which I have studied off and on for many years and have taken a practitioner course in. The Vaidyas that I have spoken to have done some amazing things despite being hamstrung by the Canadian medical legal system which is unfortunately being run by a close-minded group of Allopathically trained people. There has been a certain amount of easing the choke chain in the last couple of years with Health Canada agreeing to allow ancient formulas as written in the old texts to be allowed to be imported and used following some sort of alternative certification process.
However the world is too small nowadays to prevent knowledge from coming out and so I see problems such as autism being looked at with an eye to prevention and cure. Prevention to me is the key and I believe that agencies such as the WHO have the wherewithall at their disposal to bring the various health agencies modalities into play the way they did with such things as improving surgical outcomes in the world which have a horrible rate of failure.
Thanks for your response and keep us posted.
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Yes, Angeline, the results of your experimentation, experiences, observations, and reading have hit upon many of the same points that I independently have encountered through my experiences, experimentation, experiences, observations, and reading. I don't make any promises and I certainly don't talk about cures, but I get the sense that you're basically on a good track. Be careful, of course, but more importantly, don't let the naysayers discourage you.
Another coincidence: my two low-carb Paleo nephews are the biggest hug-giving boys I've ever encountered. :) Before LC Paleo they were shy and anxious. Since they went Paleo they've never once missed a chance to hug me at least once (usually multiple times) when I see them. They smile and are ebullient. They are my biggest reward for the investigating I've done into ancestral lifestyle.
I know of other stories like yours outside this forum, so I was wondering when someone like you might pipe up. :D Stories like yours speak for themselves, and far better than any points I could make (not that any of this will moderate the tone of naysayers, of course, but it's not them I care about--it's people like you and yours).
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Angleline,
I am not familiar with GAPS but found this website. Good luck!
http://gapsdiet.com/
There are many medical modalities and diet regimes out there and the number seems to increase daily.
Could you flesh in a bit of the philosophy, process or thinking?
Most of the people on this forum are dabblers in a variety of food systems with the basic thread being anything from 100% raw foodists to those who are thinking of trying it.
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See also this excellent lecture (warning to raw purists - contains some non-raw elements):
The Gut and Psychology Syndrome - Natasha Campbell-McBride; Item #8532
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j-znlz8Xto
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PP,
How do you arrange so the other 6 parts of the video play? I can only find the first part.
The Sally Fallon series is excellent also.
Thanks much for the excellent link.
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Don't have time to expand upon the subject this morning but to watch the video, the easiest way is to go to Youtube and search for Autism Diet: Donna Gates & Dr. Campbell McBride. It's six parts. Dr. Campbell-McBride does an excellent job of explaining the importance of a healthy, properly fuction gut. Understanding that, you can see how unhealthy gut function could cause so many diseases. Another approach, the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) has been around a long time and is similar, but there are some differences. There are many reports of major improvements in autism with both approaches. I take what I consider to be the best parts of each diet and tweak it to get the best results for myself. (Lots of experimentation has gone into this.) I have combined aspects of a few different dietary approaches to come up with a diet that is currently working well for me. When/if things no longer bring good results, I revise the diet. Can be a slow process of trial and error, but long term results have been good.
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This is the start of the 6-part interview:
Autism Diet: Donna Gates & Dr. Campbell-McBride (1 of 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLP0Ijo2CK4
Whereas this was a separate, single lecture:
The Gut and Psychology Syndrome -Natasha Campbell-McBride; Item #8532
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j-znlz8Xto
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Interesting... that pretty much is what Aajonus Vonderplanitz said.
Although they are much better looking than Aajonus.
BTW if you don't see the video #, hold your mouse pointer over the video title momentarily. The # will show up. ie 5/6
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One of the differences is that Aajonus is crazy enough to recommend the best of all raw fermented foods--high meat (and I'm crazy enough to eat it ;) ).
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Just curious, have you tried the fermented grains or seeds as they suggest? If so what effect?
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I'm quite sure that what Aajonus means when he said he cured his "autism" is that he has / had asperger syndrome, which is much milder than what people commonly refer to as autism.
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Just curious, have you tried the fermented grains or seeds as they suggest? If so what effect?
These are the fermented foods that Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride recommended in those videos that I can recall trying:
- sauerkraut (and a nasty-tasting mix of cultured cabbage, radish and ginger that I'm currently trying to force down but will never buy again)
- fermented coconut water (raw coconut vinegar)
- fermented grains (sourdough bread, whiskey, vodka, beer, vinegars)
- fermented meats (Natasha probably means traditional sausages rather than high meat--I've tried both)
- fermented fish (Natasha probably means fermented CLO rather than stink fish--I've only tried fermented CLO)
- fermented dairy products (cheese, yoghurt, buttermilk)
Another fermented food I'm currently trying is umeboshi (pickled plums). It definitely has an acquired taste.
BTW, a warning about Donna Gates--I checked out her Website and she talks about some bizarro ideas like "low vibrational foods" and unconsciounably recommends fermented wheat to people with celiac disease (http://bodyecology.com/07/04/19/gluten-sensitive_eat_fermented_grains.php)--is it just coincidence that she happens to sell a fermented wheat product (BE Wholegrain Liquid https://shop.bodyecology.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GF002)? If you'll notice from the 6-series video interview, she appears to know much less than Dr. Campbell-McBride. It's disappointing that Dr. C-M would associate with Gates.
Here is more reasonable advice on the subject of fermented wheat and celiac disease from Kurt Harris, MD:
"I maintain that it is irresponsible and pointless to say that it may be possible to eat small bits of gluten if you are known to have celiac. To say so reflects a lack of understanding of how hard it would be to prove lack of harm in celiacs, many of whom have clinically silent pathology that may not be manifest for many years....
[N]o one alive should eat gluten grains whether they have celiac disease or not....
You can live fine with zero gluten grains in your diet. Wheat flour is vitamin poor, has no nutritious fat that isn’t rancid, and the proteins in it are incomplete in their amino acid complement. There is absolutely no upside to eating wheat if you are not starving....
So why engineer some convoluted preparation ritual in order to eat it? Why not just avoid it?"
--KGH, Avoid Poison or Neutralize It? http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/12/28/avoid-poison-or-neutralize-it.html
This is a good case where Lex's quote is relevant: "it is in the ability to simplify that true genius resides." Why should I complicate things by adding fermented grains to my diet?
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What you say makes sense. I understand the simplicity credo but I wonder what is the difference between fermenting grains and fermenting meat?
I have found that since giving up wheat I do not miss it all. I haven't noticed any change in health related to it but I find that now if I eat bread etc that I just feel differently. It is almost as if it affects my mood making me less 'appy. :(
One possible explanation for the wheat problems that people have that I heard is related to the breeding programs that went on over a hundred years ago where they manipulated the natural wheat for commercial purposes. Same with corn. This is pure speculation BTW.
I dearly love sourdough bread but it is too strong for regular consumption. With ice cream or apricot jam it is heavenly but not sure but probably not paleo LOL. I used to travel to St. John's NL years ago and a bakery there in Georgetown makes the best version of it.
I would think whiskey would be devoid of bacteria as it is distilled. is that true? Beer isn't distilled provided it is not pasteurized.
Sauerkraut is not on my list of foods. It makes me sick, too strong. I almost choked on it once.
Thanks for the further info.
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These are the fermented foods that Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride recommended in those videos that I can recall trying:
- sauerkraut (and a nasty-tasting mix of cultured cabbage, radish and ginger that I'm currently trying to force down but will never buy again)
- fermented coconut water (raw coconut vinegar)
- fermented grains (sourdough bread, whiskey, vodka, beer, vinegars)
- fermented meats (Natasha probably means traditional sausages rather than high meat--I've tried both)
- fermented fish (Natasha probably means fermented CLO rather than stink fish--I've only tried fermented CLO)
- fermented dairy products (cheese, yoghurt, buttermilk)
You can check out her website about the various fermented foods she recommends. They're all anaerobic fermentations based on kefir / whey. The fermented grains drink Gates sells is "officially gluten free," at least that's what it says on her website. That website is really amazing in terms of the prices she charges for some stuff. If you check the bacteria that are in her fermented grains drink, two are just regular yogurt cultures, one is baking yeast, and one is a quite common probiotic. No magic here.
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What you say makes sense. I understand the simplicity credo but I wonder what is the difference between fermenting grains and fermenting meat?
That's a puzzling question to see on a raw Paleo forum. What do you know about Paleolithic nutrition, Al? Are you familiar, for example, with its fundamental principles and how they relate to grains? Have you read The Paleolithic Prescription, The Paleo Diet or www.ThePaleoDiet.com, NeanderThin, The Primal Blueprint or the Paleonu blog? If not, you'll find tons and tons of info in those sources to answer your question of why grains are not good for humans, even fermented grains. The quote that I posted above by Dr. Harris that specifically addressed fermented grains (sourdough bread in particular) is a good one.
I have found that since giving up wheat I do not miss it all. I haven't noticed any change in health related to it but I find that now if I eat bread etc that I just feel differently. It is almost as if it affects my mood making me less 'appy. :(
Yeah, wheat affects me worse than any food.
One possible explanation for the wheat problems that people have that I heard is related to the breeding programs that went on over a hundred years ago where they manipulated the natural wheat for commercial purposes. Same with corn. This is pure speculation BTW.
Yes, I think that made things worse, but I think the problem is more fundamental than that. I don't think wheat was much more than a supplementary or starvation food during the Paleolithic and it's home range was rather limited until humans started spreading it around rather recently in evolutionary terms.
I would think whiskey would be devoid of bacteria as it is distilled. is that true? Beer isn't distilled provided it is not pasteurized.
That would be my guess, but I handle whiskey better than beer (though I still get negative effects from whiskey too), probably because of the gluten, carbs and carbonation in most beers (there are gluten free beers, but I was surprised to discover I don't handle them perfectly well either--which was one of the clues that plant carbs of any sort may be a problem for me).
Thanks for the further info.
You're welcome!
You can check out her website about the various fermented foods she recommends. They're all anaerobic fermentations based on kefir / whey. The fermented grains drink Gates sells is "officially gluten free," at least that's what it says on her website. That website is really amazing in terms of the prices she charges for some stuff. If you check the bacteria that are in her fermented grains drink, two are just regular yogurt cultures, one is baking yeast, and one is a quite common probiotic. No magic here.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuofpNpaTWc
Family Awarded $1.5M In Vaccine-Autism Claim
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And 'nuther...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv78f0ZXNNU&NR=1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv78f0ZXNNU&NR=1
There is a ton of related youtubes on the topic
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... My reasons for this subject are pretty simple. Many people in the autism-cure-field have deliberately lied to vulnerable parents of autistic children, promising them either partial relief or a 100% cure of their autistic condition. This has been a really big issue in the UK, given Dr Wakefield's dodgy propagandising of the whole anti-vaccine quackery. ...
Thought you might be interested in this stuff about that UK quack, Tyler, in case you haven't seen it:
Retracted autism study an 'elaborate fraud,' British journal finds By the CNN Wire Staff January 6, 2011 -- Updated 0114 GMT (0914 HKT)
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/?hpt=T1
.... The now-discredited paper [by Dr. Andrew Wakefield] panicked many parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children getting the vaccine that prevents measles, mumps and rubella. Vaccination rates dropped sharply in Britain after its publication, falling as low as 80% by 2004. Measles cases have gone up sharply in the ensuing years. ....
Most of his co-authors withdrew their names from the study in 2004 after learning he had had been paid by a law firm that intended to sue vaccine manufacturers -- a serious conflict of interest he failed to disclose. ....
BJM: Wakefield planned to profit from vaccine scare
January 11, 2011 — 2:44pm ET | By Maureen Martino
BJM: Wakefield planned to profit from vaccine scare - FierceVaccines http://www.fiercevaccines.com/story/bjm-wakefield-planned-profit-vaccine-scare/2011-01-11#ixzz1Arn2xD57
Subscribe: http://www.fiercevaccines.com/signup?sourceform=Viral-Tynt-FierceVaccines-FierceVaccines
Last week we reported the British Medical Journal's conclusion that Andrew Wakefield's now-infamous study linking childhood vaccines to autism was "an elaborate fraud." In a follow-up editorial, the Journal alleges Wakefield's motive for faking his study was the potential for huge financial gain.
Author Brian Deer says Wakefield planned to make big money developing and marketing his own "safer" vaccines--as well as diagnostic test kits--after causing the public distrust of traditional vaccines. Deer notes that Wakefield discussed deals with medical school managers before his study was even complete. The former doctor "planned secret businesses intended to make huge sums of money, in Britain and America, from his now-discredited allegations," the BMJ said in a release. ....
I had never heard of him until you mentioned him. Apparently he has had much more of an impact in the UK than here. How unfortunate that so many fell for his fraud. One reason that one of my most sacred rules is to never speak in terms of "cures" is to avoid anyone getting the wrong idea that my views are in any way associated with fraudsters like this guy.
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Bill Gates: "Anti-Vaccine People Kill Children"
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2011/02/04/bill-gates-anti-vaccine-people-kill-children/
Discussion on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ffk6c/bill_gates_antivaccine_people_kill_children/
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Interesting,
I have no opinion in any direction not having studied the issue in depth, but I wonder where the stats showing "thousands of deaths" came from? (was stated in one of the articles)
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"Real life testimonial: Scarlet’s turnaround (Autism & Paleo)"
http://robbwolf.com/2011/05/23/real-life-testimonial-scarlets-turnaround-autism-paleo/
A mother shares the story of her child with autism spectrum disorder.
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"Real life testimonial: Scarlet’s turnaround (Autism & Paleo)"
http://robbwolf.com/2011/05/23/real-life-testimonial-scarlets-turnaround-autism-paleo/
A mother shares the story of her child with autism spectrum disorder.
Aha this thread is getting somewhere!!!!
Thanks Phil.
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I'm inclined to believe the school-of-thought which holds that autism-spectrum is not a "disorder", but rather a manifestation of not-yet-eradicated recessive genetic traits which we still carry from the days before we fully evolved into homo-sapiens-sapiens.
Reference: www.erectuswalksamongst.us
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As for the autism claims, it is an established scientific fact that autism cannot be cured, and is of genetic origin. This reminds me of the quack, Weston-Price, who ridiculously claimed that a Down's Syndrome patient was temporarily cured of Down's Syndrome after some surgery etc.
It also used to be an established scientific fact that;
heavier than air flight is impossible (even though birds clearly could)
the earth is flat
there is no land to the east
All living creature were created not evolved
the atom is the smallest unit that cannot be split
etc
I've no experience with autism. But science is very flexible in its clearly established facts. I do agree that outrageous healing claims are dangerous and often (but not always) BS.
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http://spectrumcenter.com/
http://tomatis.net/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Wu3SNQvR8&feature=player_embedded
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http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm
My theory at the moment: Austism occurs when a person with a large proportion of Neanderthal genes doesn't eat enough raw meat.
I think I have a lot of Neanderthal genes.
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The gut is the main problem with autism. These population are sensitive consuming even raw milk, sugar and gluten. Strictly raw paleo diet is the cure for autism, but for these special population, need to consume extra vitamins and minerals until they get cured from it. Orthomolecular treatment is the best choice for autism.
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My theory at the moment: Austism occurs when a person with a large proportion of Neanderthal genes doesn't eat enough raw meat.
I theorize that eating a high enough percentage of ones diet as raw meat is going to set straight other unsolved health problems. I am still so tempted myself to try RawZC no dairy no plant fiber. It looks like it makes sense. I don't know why I don't try it very consistently over long periods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Wu3SNQvR8
I have the feeling sound therapy will be amazing for a lot more things not yet discovered. Al, do you know more about therapies using sound?
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I theorize that eating a high enough percentage of ones diet as raw meat is going to set straight other unsolved health problems. I am still so tempted myself to try RawZC no dairy no plant fiber. It looks like it makes sense. I don't know why I don't try it very consistently over long periods.
I have the feeling sound therapy will be amazing for a lot more things not yet discovered. Al, do you know more about therapies using sound?
I share you optimism about the raw meat diet.
I am not sure about what constitutes Zero Carb so I cannot comment there.
The sound therapy does sound (PI) promising though it is difficult to say having no experience. I would like to try the therapy out of curiosity. I have tried filtering the sound as Patricia Joudry talks about in her book as I have a hearing loss in one ear. It's on my ipod for when I get rountuit. ;D However I have not done the hours of listening as per the therapy procedure. I filtered the sounds using the program Sound Studio that my GF had bought for another purpose. Any decent EQ could do the same.
One day all of the different therapies will be properly checked out and their strengths and weaknesses will be known.
Personally I believe that someone out there has figured out or will figure out therapies using sound. They may not work for all, as no therapy as appropo for all.
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http://news.scotsman.com/science/Neanderthals-were-not-stupid-just.2766050.jp
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Personally I believe that someone out there has figured out or will figure out therapies using sound.
Yes, there are people whose profession is sound therapy. I met a very caring guy who does it. I met him at an acupuncturist's office. He wasn't working there. Unfortunately this acupuncturist is one of those sadists, and worrisome.
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Which flavour of sound therapy were they using?
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Which flavour of sound therapy were they using?
I met him and spoke with him about the atrocious acupuncture treatment and healing from it. Twas years ago, and I never went for the sound treatment. I live far away now. I assume he knew many. Which flavour do you like or find works for you?
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Haven't tried any of it. Tomatis sounds reasonable for general hearing improvement. It's also quite good for Tinnitus sufferers. Various famous people including Sting and Yehudi Menuhin speak very highly of it. Some people use the training for learning new languages as it trains their ears to hear sounds that are in different languages which are unlike their own language. Opera singers also take the training as they can have issues with hearing and you cannot sing or speak what you cannot hear.
A copycat company formed by someone who was a patient of a Tomatis practitioner back in the 1970's, uses the technology but in a basic format without the complete understanding and implementation of the total system or equipment. They sell their copied technology from Australia in what I consider an overpriced format.
Basically what they do, you can do it in the privacy of your own home for free (in my case)
Get some good quality recording of classical music with lots of high notes such as violin etc - Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi for instance.
Take the files and do one of two things depending on what equipment you have. If you are a musician (Skinnydevil) you run it through a graphic EQ and dial out the frequencies 8000 and below. But you start by dialling out the lowest frequencies say on the first or second song then gradually dial out the frequencies so that after say 1/2 hour you have totally knocked out 8000 hz and below (bass notes)
Then you take more files and knock out the 8000 and below till you have a few hours at least. The more different files you have the better as you will go nuts if you have to listen to just a few pieces over and over again. Then with the last recording you do the reverse of the first half an hour. Put this on your iPod and listen to it at least a couple or three hours a day or as long as you can stand and are able. You can also listen to it as you are going to sleep. I am thinking you need a minimum of a few hundred hours of this to get results depending on the person.
You can also do the same filtering on a computer program like I have called "Sound Studio". You go to Sound Studio/Filter/Graphic EQ and dial it out. Keep the file large, ie do not compress so the integrity of the sound is there.
It will sound very high like a very cheap record player without a bass speaker. This is what you want. Also make it louder in the right ear than the left. Dr. Tomatis determined that persons with left ear dominant have issues (honestly I can't explain that one as I forget, but it is in his books.) He says that people who are left handed can be changed through the training of the right ear to be dominent.
In the Tomatis technique they try to get a recording of the mother's voice for some of the treatment, as that is the voice we heard in the womb. They also use a headset with a bone conduction speaker.
The rest of the info can be gotten online.
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http://www.disclose.tv/swf/player.swf?config=http://www.disclose.tv/videos/config_i/xxx/40371.js
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http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm
My theory at the moment: Austism occurs when a person with a large proportion of Neanderthal genes doesn't eat enough raw meat.
I think I have a lot of Neanderthal genes.
I have been thinking about this exact same thing for the last few days. I have had autistic tendencies(Poor ability to pay attention, obsessions, poor social skills, etc... the whole package) throughout my life. I understand social interaction completely now (or at least I think :P). It's just that I tend to not want to engage in them. The poor attention span and obsessions remain though.
That article you posted describes me pretty well. I don't really care about appearances and often criticize society for placing so much importance on it. I have a very weak sense of group identity or ethnic affiliation. I even have that bump at the back of my head. My build is not lean and my limbs are not long. I even have a preference for colder climates. :P
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There are a few videos on this page and the second one shows how the mercury in vaccines does it's work in the body.
So much for those who say vaccines are innocuous. (forgive the pun) :)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/31/flu-vaccination-epa-safety-limit-for-mercury.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/31/flu-vaccination-epa-safety-limit-for-mercury.aspx)
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Anyone aware of this?
http://hiddenrecovery.blogspot.com/2008/11/strep-and-rife-machines.html (http://hiddenrecovery.blogspot.com/2008/11/strep-and-rife-machines.html)
It's about a Rife machine. They've been around for a long time and people who use them swear by them. Some call them beam-ray machines as that is what they look like. They seem to have two forms which do the same thing. One has a light or beam ray and the other is electrical being somewhat like a Zapper.
I know the Zapper works as I have one that I use if I get an infection from splinters or sports accidents.
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Jenny McCarthy, Jim Carrey, other parents, Doctors with autistic children, paediatricians VS the vested interests of Big Pharma and on Larry King Live
Vaccines & Autism 1/5 Jenny McCarthy on Larry King Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36PLQIMW69c#ws)
Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey on Autism Larry King Part 1. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toIFU853TrI#)
Vaccines & Autism 2/5 Jenny McCarthy on Larry King Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZcJ2zzvEwY#ws)
Vaccines & Autism 3/5 Jenny McCarthy on Larry King Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3licFloh0#ws)
Vaccines & Autism 4/5 Jenny McCarthy on Larry King Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x79NT5qsPcA#ws)
Vaccines & Autism 5/5 Jenny McCarthy on Larry King Live (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSSS2BIthcg#ws)
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Dr. Campbell-McBride interview with Patrick Timpone -
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/dr-campbell-mcbride-the-true-connection-between-nutrition-and-brain-function/ (http://www.oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/dr-campbell-mcbride-the-true-connection-between-nutrition-and-brain-function/)
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This is a link to another thread I started. When you go to the linked video in Pakistan, read the articles below also.
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/militarized-highway-vaccination-checkpoints/new/#new (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/militarized-highway-vaccination-checkpoints/new/#new)
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I love this! Autism can and IS fixable! The cure is already known! woah :)
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I love the enthusiasm, Raw-Al, and thanks for the stuff from Dr. Campbell-McBride, but I suspect that diet is a much larger factor in autism than vaccines. In my own experience, dietary change cleared up my brain fog, despite a typical history of vaccination. Don't worry, I don't discount completely the potential influence of modern vaccinations and other modern factors, but I think vaccination greatly misdirects people from the primary cause of autism--modern diet.
People like Jenny McCarthy and others change their childrens' diets with great success, but seem to assume nonetheless that vaccination is the primary cause. How odd it is that even in a dietary forum like this one that vaccination seems to still be pointed to primarily, over diet.
I suspect that one factor is that it's much easier to just avoid vaccinations than to dramatically change one's diet, into which are tied so many cultural influences.
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Phil, I completely understand your thoughts. Personally I have no idea or experience on which to draw. I am just looking for things as they are mentioned here and on the Raw paleo yahoo group. Basically a scattergun approach. See what sticks.
It is very encouraging that there seems to be a certain amount of light at the end of the tunnel for those with the issue. It has to be heartbreaking for a parent.
As far as the mercury goes we had our filling removed and did notice a slight change in the way our stomachs felt and a slight mood change. Now the ADA is fazing out mercury fillings so things are looking better.
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Yes, as the use of mercury fillings and thimerosal continue to decrease, if mercury is truly the primary cause of autism we should see a marked decline in the rate of autism, correct?
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I love that autism is cured and explained. I'm greatful. My kids can live their lives to the fullest. Some day, I'll have my own kids.
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make your own flu vaccine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIjm9w_-tNY#)
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I couldn't read this entire thread so please forgive me if this particular point has already been made - but I want to make sure it is added:
Not very long ago cerebral palsy patients were considered to be mentally retarded because they were not able to properly use the muscles to communicate. This lead to an entire group of human beings being treated in horrific ways. Imagine yourself being trapped in a body that simply could not communicate with others when desperately desired. When it was realized that some CP patients were not only normal but exceptionally intelligent the treatment of CP children was changed and the lives of these poor afflicted souls improved.
Now there is a disease that is afflicting more and more people it seems - almost to epidemic proportions as I see it - and one girl has been able to break through the communication barrier to let the world know, like in CP, that there is an intelligent person in there. All autistics patients can now get better care and be treated with more respect if this particular case is considered properly - not just passed off as retarded and dismissed.
Another aspect of this girl being able to communicate is that one of the biggest challenges to treatment is that the patient cannot report how a treatment is affecting them. If this child were to try a new diet, they would be able to report if there are any benefits or not.
I saw a whole documentary on this girl before so didn't watch your video Al. This is really big news.
Most afflictions of the central nervous system for the longest time were considered to be genetic and hopeless. Many cancers have been considered genetic and hopeless. We know so very little about how diet affects these diseases considered to be hopeless and "genetic" because there simply has been no monetary incentive to do experiments.
I have personally seen too many genetic and hopeless diseases improved if I can't use the word cured by alternative treatments (after all cure is not really a word that is used in medicine because saying someone is "cured" opens up the possibility of medical malpractice suits) to write off anyone with any infliction as hopeless. Modern medicine after all is a system based upon relieving symptoms, not curing - that's all that most medicines are intended to do - so if changing one's diet can relieve symptoms without the negative side-affects of medications that is enough to make diet worth considering as a viable treatment. Diet however is not a considered treatment usually in medicine - simply because no one can make much money with it. However - individuals that find their way here need to be supported in their desires to try a change of diet no matter what their affliction is because no one can tell them it can't or won't work. There is too much anecdotal evidence that diet can help at least the symptoms of too many "incurable" illnesses for it to be ignored by someone suffering.
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Haven't tried any of it. Tomatis sounds reasonable for general hearing improvement. It's also quite good for Tinnitus sufferers. Various famous people including Sting and Yehudi Menuhin speak very highly of it. Some people use the training for learning new languages as it trains their ears to hear sounds that are in different languages which are unlike their own language. Opera singers also take the training as they can have issues with hearing and you cannot sing or speak what you cannot hear.
A copycat company formed by someone who was a patient of a Tomatis practitioner back in the 1970's, uses the technology but in a basic format without the complete understanding and implementation of the total system or equipment. They sell their copied technology from Australia in what I consider an overpriced format.
Basically what they do, you can do it in the privacy of your own home for free (in my case)
Get some good quality recording of classical music with lots of high notes such as violin etc - Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi for instance.
Take the files and do one of two things depending on what equipment you have. If you are a musician (Skinnydevil) you run it through a graphic EQ and dial out the frequencies 8000 and below. But you start by dialling out the lowest frequencies say on the first or second song then gradually dial out the frequencies so that after say 1/2 hour you have totally knocked out 8000 hz and below (bass notes)
Then you take more files and knock out the 8000 and below till you have a few hours at least. The more different files you have the better as you will go nuts if you have to listen to just a few pieces over and over again. Then with the last recording you do the reverse of the first half an hour. Put this on your iPod and listen to it at least a couple or three hours a day or as long as you can stand and are able. You can also listen to it as you are going to sleep. I am thinking you need a minimum of a few hundred hours of this to get results depending on the person.
You can also do the same filtering on a computer program like I have called "Sound Studio". You go to Sound Studio/Filter/Graphic EQ and dial it out. Keep the file large, ie do not compress so the integrity of the sound is there.
It will sound very high like a very cheap record player without a bass speaker. This is what you want. Also make it louder in the right ear than the left. Dr. Tomatis determined that persons with left ear dominant have issues (honestly I can't explain that one as I forget, but it is in his books.) He says that people who are left handed can be changed through the training of the right ear to be dominent.
In the Tomatis technique they try to get a recording of the mother's voice for some of the treatment, as that is the voice we heard in the womb. They also use a headset with a bone conduction speaker.
The rest of the info can be gotten online.
Hi Al - I play the violin. Vivaldi, Bach and Mozart do not have a lot of high notes (that's why I can play them lol) - but they are all baroque period composers and that in itself seems to be of particular importance to healing. When played at a particular tempo one is put into a particular brain state with this music. I adore Vivaldi. I actually credit the violin to my salvation as a child. My violin has beautiful overtones. When I put my ear right up against my violin in the higher registers (must have good e string) it is all the overtones that feel the most healing. It's not just the higher register notes themselves.
I wonder why you would have to modify the music so much as you instruct. Why not just listen to a really good violin playing solo?
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I couldn't read this entire thread so please forgive me if this particular point has already been made - but I want to make sure it is added:
Not very long ago cerebral palsy patients were considered to be mentally retarded because they were not able to properly use the muscles to communicate. This lead to an entire group of human beings being treated in horrific ways. Imagine yourself being trapped in a body that simply could not communicate with others when desperately desired. When it was realized that some CP patients were not only normal but exceptionally intelligent the treatment of CP children was changed and the lives of these poor afflicted souls improved.
Now there is a disease that is afflicting more and more people it seems - almost to epidemic proportions as I see it - and one girl has been able to break through the communication barrier to let the world know, like in CP, that there is an intelligent person in there. All autistics patients can now get better care and be treated with more respect if this particular case is considered properly - not just passed off as retarded and dismissed.
Another aspect of this girl being able to communicate is that one of the biggest challenges to treatment is that the patient cannot report how a treatment is affecting them. If this child were to try a new diet, they would be able to report if there are any benefits or not.
I saw a whole documentary on this girl before so didn't watch your video Al. This is really big news.
Most afflictions of the central nervous system for the longest time were considered to be genetic and hopeless. Many cancers have been considered genetic and hopeless. We know so very little about how diet affects these diseases considered to be hopeless and "genetic" because there simply has been no monetary incentive to do experiments.
I have personally seen too many genetic and hopeless diseases improved if I can't use the word cured by alternative treatments (after all cure is not really a word that is used in medicine because saying someone is "cured" opens up the possibility of medical malpractice suits) to write off anyone with any infliction as hopeless. Modern medicine after all is a system based upon relieving symptoms, not curing - that's all that most medicines are intended to do - so if changing one's diet can relieve symptoms without the negative side-affects of medications that is enough to make diet worth considering as a viable treatment. Diet however is not a considered treatment usually in medicine - simply because no one can make much money with it. However - individuals that find their way here need to be supported in their desires to try a change of diet no matter what their affliction is because no one can tell them it can't or won't work. There is too much anecdotal evidence that diet can help at least the symptoms of too many "incurable" illnesses for it to be ignored by someone suffering.
It's true. I never got the help I needed when I was at my worst.
I remember eating junk foods all day, and being heavily sedated. I remember later, trying supplements and that helping.
Then now, being virtually symptom free eating a combination of raw paleo and regular foods.
It's a shame diets haven't been explored.
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Hi Al - I play the violin. Vivaldi, Bach and Mozart do not have a lot of high notes (that's why I can play them lol) - but they are all baroque period composers and that in itself seems to be of particular importance to healing. When played at a particular tempo one is put into a particular brain state with this music. I adore Vivaldi. I actually credit the violin to my salvation as a child. My violin has beautiful overtones. When I put my ear right up against my violin in the higher registers (must have good e string) it is all the overtones that feel the most healing. It's not just the higher register notes themselves.
I wonder why you would have to modify the music so much as you instruct. Why not just listen to a really good violin playing solo?
If you go to the different sites that explain his theory and read the book that I read (I forget the name) it is explained how Tomatis (an ear doctor) arrived at simulating what a baby would hear whilst in the womb. This is what it is based on. He suspended a microphone (in a plastic covering) into some water which was as close to what he could dream up to be like what a womb would create.
Then he played music in the surrounding room and recorded what the microphone heard.
This is why he eliminates the aforementioned frequencies.
BTW I love Baroque also.
I was a rock n' roll/folkie/bluesy type as a youngster but I like everything now.
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Thanks for the explanation Al. I guess if it works - it works. I'd probably hate having to listen to that though - glad I don't have to.
But is there a reason to pick those composers? I mean if you want the high register baroque music is the worst choice because in the baroque period the fingerboards were shorter so there aren't the high notes that came later.
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Not sure. I didn't pursue the topic too deeply.
Here is a link to the descendants of the therapy. I cannot comment on it being good bad or indifferent BTW.
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Not sure. I didn't pursue the topic too deeply.
Here is a link to the descendants of the therapy. I cannot comment on it being good bad or indifferent BTW.
Thanks for being willing to talk about it - it sounds very interesting and I'd like to learn more - but did you forget to add the link or am I missing it?
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Thanks for being willing to talk about it - it sounds very interesting and I'd like to learn more - but did you forget to add the link or am I missing it?
RPD has not improved memory LOL
http://www.tomatis.com/ (http://www.tomatis.com/)
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The fact of the matter is, no one knows the real cause of autism. There are probably different causes of it and sometimes diet can improve it and other times it does nothing. Autism is a mystery but I also believe genetics are involved in it.
Why do you believe it?
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Someone can have a genetic propensity without the environment activating it.
If you have an ethnic background that is prone towards alcoholism for instance - what if you never take one drink?
My genetics the doctors would say make me likely to get diabetes - yet I'm one of the only people in my extended family tree that didn't get it because I stopped eating sugar when I became an adult.
I am also genetically poised to get heart disease and cancer as most everyone in my family contracted and/or died of those things. I believe that those genetic propensities will only be activated if I eat a diet that will allow for them to happen.
One thing that is not taken into consideration is that besides genes a parent also passes to their children dietary practices, lifestyles and toxic physiological wastes accumulated from diet and environment.
Scientists don't usually look at diet and environment therefore all they have at their disposal as causative can be genes therefore as many things as can be are piled up under the category.
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My wife was told by a Jyotishi that she should have serious visual issues, (glaucoma and poor vision) by this time in her life and was surprised when she didn't.
However what she neglected to tell him was that she was headed for that when we took up sungazing. (She/we were/are also doing Bates methods exercises daily.) All that bad prognosis has gone out the window, which goes to show that genetics may be an indicator of a tendency, by is not a life sentence.
Regarding the diabetic propensity in your family Dorothy, there was a study done by a dietician (I think there was more than one and I think there was one done in Canada also) in Australia with aboriginals. They took a number of them who were suffering from a wide variety of serious illnesses with a cornucopia of allopathic medicinals being fed to them, placed the people in the wilderness with emergency foods only, the idea being that they return to their traditional fare.
The participants found the medicinals were unnecessary and their health normalized. Everything from diabetes to high blood pressure etc. vanished.
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My wife was told by a Jyotishi that she should have serious visual issues, (glaucoma and poor vision) by this time in her life and was surprised when she didn't.
However what she neglected to tell him was that she was headed for that when we took up sungazing. (She/we were/are also doing Bates methods exercises daily.) All that bad prognosis has gone out the window, which goes to show that genetics may be an indicator of a tendency, by is not a life sentence.
Regarding the diabetic propensity in your family Dorothy, there was a study done by a dietician (I think there was more than one and I think there was one done in Canada also) in Australia with aboriginals. They took a number of them who were suffering from a wide variety of serious illnesses with a cornucopia of allopathic medicinals being fed to them, placed the people in the wilderness with emergency foods only, the idea being that they return to their traditional fare.
The participants found the medicinals were unnecessary and their health normalized. Everything from diabetes to high blood pressure etc. vanished.
Al - does your wife recognize that the sun-gazing and bates made that difference even though she neglected to tell the astrologer that she had been headed that way? I was sun-gazing for awhile but stopped - I really have to start that again - it felt so good!
I'd love to read more about that Australian aborigine experiment. Do you have any links that would speed up my search for more info on that? That's the perfect example of what I was saying. Thank you.
I really do believe that most of our modern diseases and our new epidemics can be mostly avoided with diet and lifestyle changes even if they are considered to be genetic by doctors - because if you think about - every disease really has to be "genetic" because if our genes did not allow for the possibility of the disease we would not be able to get it at all - any disease. It is impossible for us to get certain diseases that other species get. In order for it to be possible at all to get a disease there first has to be the genetic makeup allowing for it in the first place.
Why would certain chronic diseases be increasing so rapidly in certain populations? Have the genes changed? No. There has to be other factors that are allowing those particular genes to show their weakness.
Your aboriginal example is poignant - and if you think about it - so is just the increase in cancer, heart disease and diabetes. The genes are the same as they were - so what is it that makes so many people get those diseases now if they are genetic like I've been told? Why would autism be increasing so rapidly if genes are what are to be blamed?
I've seen how arteriosclerosis and cancer and diabetes can be reversed by diet even if the mainstream medical establishment claim that diet is not a "cure" .... I'll just wait her patiently until someone is able to figure out how to do the same for autism.
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Al - does your wife recognize that the sun-gazing and bates made that difference even though she neglected to tell the astrologer that she had been headed that way?
I'd love to read more about that Australian aborigine experiment. Do you have any links that would speed up my search for more info on that? That's the perfect example of what I was saying. Thank you.
She knows the gazing was the reason her eyes improved. The Bates method slowed down the advance of the issues.
I do not have a link to that study, but the good news is I read it here many moons ago so maybe someone here knows.
When a doctor says a disease is genetic what they really mean is the don't know what to tell you. Or specifically they can't dream up a reason why the pill they gave you is useless or that the only thing they can do is surgically remove part of your body.
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genetic disease a general term for any disorder caused by a genetic mechanism, comprising chromosome aberrations (or anomalies), mendelian (or monogenic or single-gene) disorders, and multifactorial disorders.
.... but I think that what doctors usually mean in layman's language when they say that a disease is genetic is that it has been passed on from a parent or that it runs in families.
If I got say cholera - that would not be considered genetic as no one in my family that I know of has ever had cholera and cholera is not associated with chromosomal mechanisms or damage.
But since heart disease and cancer and diabetes all run in my family - that would be considered genetic.
This is where things get really messy because fried noodles and cabbage, lots of dumplings, sugary deserts, obesity and not exercising also run in my family. ;)
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genetic disease a general term for any disorder caused by a genetic mechanism, comprising chromosome aberrations (or anomalies), mendelian (or monogenic or single-gene) disorders, and multifactorial disorders.
.... but I think that what doctors usually mean in layman's language when they say that a disease is genetic is that it has been passed on from a parent or that it runs in families.
If I got say cholera - that would not be considered genetic as no one in my family that I know of has ever had cholera and cholera is not associated with chromosomal mechanisms or damage.
But since heart disease and cancer and diabetes all run in my family - that would be considered genetic.
This is where things get really messy because fried noodles and cabbage, lots of dumplings, sugary deserts, obesity and not exercising also run in my family. ;)
Your last statement is a bit more accurate. Eating junk food, doing no physical activity or other stressors are more likely to be the real cause. That's why I say that genetic is just a story that Doctors tell when they have no clue.
One close relative gets sick periodically so a doctor might conclude that they have a genetic disposition......... BS, it happens every time they go away, eat exotic unfamiliar, cooked foods and get little or no sleep.
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Your last statement is a bit more accurate. Eating junk food, doing no physical activity or other stressors are more likely to be the real cause. That's why I say that genetic is just a story that Doctors tell when they have no clue.
One close relative gets sick periodically so a doctor might conclude that they have a genetic disposition......... BS, it happens every time they go away, eat exotic unfamiliar, cooked foods and get little or no sleep.
We are in perfect agreement.
I like trying to understand things from the medical perspective/definition in order to see the holes.
The actual definition of genetic disease makes some sense. How doctors use the term (I believe incorrectly or more accurately - in a way much less useful) as "runs in families" makes little sense - because so very many things besides genes run in families.
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Interesting theory in video 1 approximately around the six minute mark.
http://frex.com.au/lda.html (http://frex.com.au/lda.html)
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Hey Al - yet another non-existent link. Have you been eating enough fat? ;)
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reply repaired.
You'll have to excuse me I am getting some honey/fat/butter mixture and then off to bed. :o
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Anecdotal - a kid at my sons school is autistic and his family is vegetarian, eating mostly carbohydrates, a diet high in grain products. For some individuals there seems to be a link between high carbohydrate consumption and autism, possibly due to toxins produced from microbe overgrowth. The specific carbohydrate diet (SCD) goes into this.
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http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/notfoundstatic.asp (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/notfoundstatic.asp)
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http://www.wnd.com/2006/03/35079/ (http://www.wnd.com/2006/03/35079/)
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*Scandal Exposed in Major Study of Autism and Mercury
*SILVER SPRING, Md., Oct. 25, 2011 — The Coalition for Mercury-Free Drugs (CoMeD) exposes communications between Centers for Disease Control (CDC) personnel and vaccine researchers revealing U.S. officials apparently colluded in covering-up the decline in Denmark's autism rates following the removal of mercury from vaccines.
Documents obtained via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) show that CDC officials were aware of Danish data indicating a connection between removing Thimerosal (49.55% mercury) and a decline in autism rates. Despite this knowledge, these officials allowed a 2003 article to be published in Pediatrics that excluded this information, misrepresented the decline as an increase, and led to the mistaken conclusion that Thimerosal in vaccines does not cause autism.
In Denmark, Thimerosal, a controversial mercury compound used as a preservative in certain vaccines, was removed from all Danish vaccines in 1992. The well-publicized Danish study published in Pediatrics 2003 claimed that autism rates actually increased after Thimerosal was phased out. This study subsequently became a cornerstone for the notion that mercury does not cause autism. However, one of the FOIA documents obtained from CDC clearly indicates that this study omitted large amounts of data showing autism rates actually dropping after mercury was removed from Danish vaccines.
One coauthor, from Aarhus University, Denmark, was aware of the omission and alerted CDC officials in a 2002 email, stating "Attached I send you the short and long manuscript about Thimerosal and autism in Denmark … I need to tell you that the figures do not include the latest data from 2001 … but *the incidence and prevalence are still decreasing in 2001*" (emphasis added).
We know the article's lead author was aware of the missing autism data because he stated in an email reply, "I am not currently at the university but I will contact you and <names withheld> tomorrow to make up our minds."
Nevertheless, in the final draft version of the publication submitted to Pediatrics, the data from 2001 showing a decline in autism was not mentioned. Ignoring this omission, the CDC continued to endorse the article and, in a December 10, 2002 recommendation letter to the editor of Pediatrics, encouraged expedited review and publication of the article. The misleading Danish article was published by Pediatrics in 2003.
Dr. Poul Thorsen, one of the co-authors and "scientist in residence" at the CDC 2000-2002, subsequently was terminated by Aarhus University and indicted in Atlanta for embezzlement this year in relation to his $11 million grant from the CDC.
CoMeD has demanded that the CDC launch an immediate investigation of the CDC officials involved based on scientific fraud. CoMeD is also calling for the full retraction of the deceptive article which appeared in Pediatrics.
"This type of malfeasance should not be tolerated by those who are entrusted with our children's health and well-being," stated Lisa Sykes, President of CoMeD.
The link is: http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/111025_PR10_ScandalExposedInMajorStudyOfAutismMercuryb.pdf (http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/111025_PR10_ScandalExposedInMajorStudyOfAutismMercuryb.pdf)
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document
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http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/ (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/)
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Has anyone tried hydrogen peroxide therapy for this issue?
My wife is doing it and it is having an incredible effect on her. Seems to move around the body and work on different issues as time goes along.
She does not have any outstanding issues, but it got rid of her annual allergy problems very quickly.
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Here is a link explaining H2O2 therapy..
http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/benefitsofhydrogenperozide17jul03.shtml (http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/benefitsofhydrogenperozide17jul03.shtml)
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Here is a link to a news piece on using coconut oil for amongst other things autism.
Coconut Oil Touted as Alzheimer's Remedy - CBN.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOR-Qd3QSg#ws)
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Anecdotal - a kid at my sons school is autistic and his family is vegetarian, eating mostly carbohydrates, a diet high in grain products. For some individuals there seems to be a link between high carbohydrate consumption and autism, possibly due to toxins produced from microbe overgrowth. The specific carbohydrate diet (SCD) goes into this.
The SCD is a great diet. When I'm fully raw paleo I'm actually on a version that's basis is SCD.
SCD raw carbs, no nuts. With raw meats and lots of raw fat. Its deffinitely great for mental illness. SCD alone is great, but I think combined with raw paleo its the best.
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http://flappinessis.com/2012/09/04/tell-it-like-it-is-on-being-asked-what-it-is-like-to-have-an-autistic-child/ (http://flappinessis.com/2012/09/04/tell-it-like-it-is-on-being-asked-what-it-is-like-to-have-an-autistic-child/)
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Autism is also linked to the use of SSRI anti depressants during pregnancy, in this report they attribute 3% of cases to this cause:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Autism/27403 (http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Autism/27403)
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I cannot vouch for any of the contents of these pages, but some swear by this stuff and others swear at it. It seems that it either works for you or it doesn't, but here is the info anyways.
Personally I am not interested, but I have a friend who credits being alive to it.
However he is a SAD consumer of the worst kind.
http://www.mmsfacts.com/can-mms-treat-mercury-poisoning#more-139 (http://www.mmsfacts.com/can-mms-treat-mercury-poisoning#more-139)
http://jimhumble.biz/ (http://jimhumble.biz/)
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Go to this website
http://tennantinstitute.com/ (http://tennantinstitute.com/)
Click on 'Conditions' and select 'Autism' from the drop down menu.
This site is Dr Tennant's site. A brief bio is found by selecting 'Home' page then scroll down to the box that says 'Meet Dr Tennant.' This is not the same as the 'Meet Dr. Tennant' that is in the main menu.
His books are fascinating. They are excellent explanations of the world of electric/electronic medicine as well as standard Allopathic techniques and results.
He is Harvard trained, board certified in Ophthalmology and Ophthalmic plastic surgery, as well as a Naturopathic Doctor, Homeopathic Doctor and holds patents for medical devices including intraocular lenses. He also did the majority of the study for the FDA to get approval for the VISX laser used in LASIK surgery. This is a very short list of his accomplishments.
His books that I as an amateur would be capable of understanding are ;
"Healing is Voltage" http://books.google.ca/books/about/Healing_Is_Voltage.html?id=1je7bwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y (http://books.google.ca/books/about/Healing_Is_Voltage.html?id=1je7bwAACAAJ&redir_esc=y) and
"Healing is Voltage, Healing Eye Diseases"
His other books are for eye surgeons.
IMHO If you want to see the future of medicine follow this guy....
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How did she learn how to write??
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How did she learn how to write??
To whom are you referring?
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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1321261--autism-linked-to-gut-bacteria-study-finds (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1321261--autism-linked-to-gut-bacteria-study-finds)
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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1321261--autism-linked-to-gut-bacteria-study-finds (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1321261--autism-linked-to-gut-bacteria-study-finds)
Raw-SCD. the ultimate diet for mental illness.
Microbialinfluence.com for more info regarding bacteria and autism.
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http://www.responsibletechnology.org/posts/genetic-roulette-free-screening/ (http://www.responsibletechnology.org/posts/genetic-roulette-free-screening/)
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I've discovered yet another child who was fine prior to vaccination but then turned progressively quiet and inward shortly after. The child is 4 and has been diagnosed as having mild autism. She also has epileptic seizures and overheating issues since then.
So much for the allopathic BS that autism is not related to vaccinations.
Another allopathic Doctor friend's child, displayed some strange actions after her 1 year vaccinations recently. I wouldn't get my children vaccinated. That's for sure. It's 'vaccination roulette' afaiac.
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http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2003325#i (http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2003325#i)
Why anyone would trust a paediatrician is beyond me. They may be honest but their sources are not.
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http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=54 (http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=54)
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2006518#i (http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2006518#i)
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A ketogenic diet is good for preventing epileptic seizures.
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http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/02/16/did_a_swine_flu_vaccine_give_this_girl_narcolepsy.html (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/02/16/did_a_swine_flu_vaccine_give_this_girl_narcolepsy.html)
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Here is a quite interesting vid about a treatment method that has very promising results.
http://www.health-recovery-info.com/2012/12/straight-talk-on-mms-curing-autism-with-kerri-riviera/ (http://www.health-recovery-info.com/2012/12/straight-talk-on-mms-curing-autism-with-kerri-riviera/)
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I listened to the audiobook that is a mirror to the movie. It was/is a very big eye opener.
It doesn't surprise me at all. This is a full length show but very worth watching if you would like a view of autism and I believe a lot of illnesses.
The Horse Boy - Napisy PL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRJ4tbfWcQ#ws)
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Only got 10 min in but very heartbreaking so far.
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It's my understanding that autism is caused by multiple things
1) microbial toxins from complex carbs and cooked animal foods
2) lack of raw nutrients makes them hyper sensitive to heavy metals
3) lack of raw nutrients damages health
I personally think a raw scdiet is best for autism. Although you won't find many who support this diet.
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It's my understanding that autism is caused by multiple things
1) microbial toxins from complex carbs and cooked animal foods
2) lack of raw nutrients makes them hyper sensitive to heavy metals
3) lack of raw nutrients damages health
I personally think a raw scdiet is best for autism. Although you won't find many who support this diet.
I watched the whole thing and man you feel for that couple. From the documentry and got the feeling that being away from their home did all of them a lot of good.
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http://bacteriaandautism.com/ (http://bacteriaandautism.com/)
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LIVE
EVERY WEEKDAY MORNING
9 - 11 AM CENTRAL
Greetings!
As of May 2013, 93 children previously diagnosed with regressive autism were able to shed their autism diagnosis, their symptoms, and return to an overall state of health and vitality using the protocols revealed in her book, Healing the Symptoms Known As Autism.
Kerri Rivera has outlined a very complete approach to autism recovery that includes an understanding of the importance of Biofilm theory and protocol. She recommends safe interventions that do no harm, and are helping to confront a growing epidemic.
Kerri Rivera's approach includes common sense dietary recommendations, the use of supplements to restore balance to the body and immune system, as well as mild oxidative therapies to address chronic infection and inflammation. She has taken children who were in the throes of autism (meaning chronic illness)
to healing. The symptoms being labeled as autism are fading away, the children are talking and socializing, and their ATEC scores prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what their parents are claiming: their children no longer have autism.
Kerri Rivera's grasp of a biomedical approach to Autism recovery, paired with her passion for service has allowed families of all socioeconomic backgrounds to have what they might never have otherwise found: a means by which to help their children.
Show Highlights:
-Kerri takes us on a very personal journey, telling us about her sons' experience with Autism. He developed symptoms of Autism after a vaccination at 24 months of age. He is now 13 and has been following the protocol for 3 years and is doing very well.
-The many miracles of Chlorine Dioxide. What is it? How is it used? And where do we find it?
-Kerri talks about parasite cleansing a la Andreas Kalker as part of this protocol-A listener writes with praises to Kerri. Hear her success story!
-The protocol is often used by parents of the children using it as well and have shown dramatic results in elininating symtptoms of fibromyalgia, Lymes disease and chronic fatigue
This interview is packed with powerful information.Please pass this podcast along to anyone with a child who suffers from Autism. It could truly change their lives!
http://oneradionetwork.com/health/kerri-rivera-healing-the-symptoms-known-as-autism-children-are-not-born-with-autism-so-they-should-not-die-with-it-august-15-2013/ (http://oneradionetwork.com/health/kerri-rivera-healing-the-symptoms-known-as-autism-children-are-not-born-with-autism-so-they-should-not-die-with-it-august-15-2013/)
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Here is some very interesting links to gluten in autistic babies.
http://www.bulletproofexec.com/61-gluten-sensitivity-celiacs-bulletproofing-your-gut-with-dr-tom-obryan-podcast/ (http://www.bulletproofexec.com/61-gluten-sensitivity-celiacs-bulletproofing-your-gut-with-dr-tom-obryan-podcast/)
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Raw-al:
I am reading a book called "The Neurofeedback Solution" by Stephen Larsen.
He is a Psychologist who uses a few neurofeedback devices to help autistic children. His results seem quite impressive. He uses mainly a LENS device and qEEG equipment to bring their EEG results to more of a normalized state.
These types of machines are quite amazing with impressive results for children and adults with SDD and ADHD and a number of other issues.
Companies such as Neuroptimal http://www.zengar.com/the-brain-neuroptimal (http://www.zengar.com/the-brain-neuroptimal) and SmartBrainTech.com etc. are blazing trails that show great promise in the arena of metal fitness.
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van:
May have been suggested earlier,, I just enjoyed the movie Temple Grandin last night,, an autistic woman who went on to get a phd and change much about how animals suffer in production facilities.
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Here is a fascinating podcast by Kerri Rivera whose autistic child spurred her to look for a cure(s). She has succeeded and chronicles that the latest # cured as of this writing is 110 children. Turns out diet is part of the problem and parasites are another part of the problem. (GS you are right about parasites [as usual])
Diet, seawater, MMS is the main topics.
The podcast is on this page as # 78, curing autism
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/bulletproof-executive-radio/id451295014 (https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/bulletproof-executive-radio/id451295014)
http://www.mmsautism.org/ (http://www.mmsautism.org/)
http://www.mmsautism.org/forum/ (http://www.mmsautism.org/forum/)
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My nephew is on the Kerry Rivera protocol. We are amazed at the worms coming out of the little boys butt!. Many are as long as 12 inches! His autism hasn't improved yet.
I tried the same protocol and nothing visible came out. Since I eat raw meat, many would suspect me of having worms, but again, none that can be seen with the naked eye.
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dogman333,
Interesting. Keep us up to date on any progress re: your nephew.
I know someone who has the issue and I was trying to help them out.
I have heard of PPL having parasites on a raw diet but only a few. I may do a cleaning some day out of curiosity. There is a thread on this subject somewhere on the site.
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An article from Psychology today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201310/autistic-kids-are-magnets-ghosts (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201310/autistic-kids-are-magnets-ghosts)
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Could Roundup be a contributing factor.
http://www.autismone.org/content/autism-explained-synergistic-poisoning-aluminum-and-glyphosate-stephanie-seneff (http://www.autismone.org/content/autism-explained-synergistic-poisoning-aluminum-and-glyphosate-stephanie-seneff)
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Vaccine connections
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1m3TjokVU4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1m3TjokVU4)
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Dr. Peter Wakefield's story
http://www.callous-disregard.com/ (http://www.callous-disregard.com/)
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pretty sure I have a mild form of it. I wonder how high does the autism rate have to climb before these nutcases will admit they were wrong?
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pretty sure I have a mild form of it. I wonder how high does the autism rate have to climb before these nutcases will admit they were wrong?
They will never. Too much money.
This guy is on a mission. He is very bright, clear, and is leading the charge to get rid of vaccines and big pharma. Any doubt as to the cause of autism/strokes etc is clearly dispelled by this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Pb2gqbkyk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Pb2gqbkyk)
http://truthalerts.com/dr-andrew-moulden-learning-to-identify-vaccine-damage/ (http://truthalerts.com/dr-andrew-moulden-learning-to-identify-vaccine-damage/)
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Fifteen minutes of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the guy that the British Doctor's Union blackballed and removed his license and somehow managed to hire PPL to lie about him in the media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYcxIrs4oyk#t=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYcxIrs4oyk#t=10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra0QtTUuFIc)
http://oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/italian-court-rules-mmr-vaccine-did-trigger-autism-article/ (http://oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/italian-court-rules-mmr-vaccine-did-trigger-autism-article/)
http://oneradionetwork.com/health-articles/connecting-the-dots-gmos-and-vaccines-article/ (http://oneradionetwork.com/health-articles/connecting-the-dots-gmos-and-vaccines-article/)
http://oneradionetwork.com/women-children-vaccines-articles/3-vaccines-banned-never-administered-child/ (http://oneradionetwork.com/women-children-vaccines-articles/3-vaccines-banned-never-administered-child/)
http://oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/dr-andrew-wakefields-candid-remarks-about-the-mmr-vaccine-article/ (http://oneradionetwork.com/newsflash/dr-andrew-wakefields-candid-remarks-about-the-mmr-vaccine-article/)
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If vaccines cause autism, why didn't anyone notice it until Wakefield?
Look, bro, there's no good correlation between autism rates and vaccination rates. No one can show such. What would the mechanism even BE?
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I'm not convinced either. Still, I do not think that Wakefield should have been stripped of his licence and so on.
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Here's an article opposing Wakefield:-
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/listen-roald-dahl-not-jenny-mccarthy-vaccinate-children-measles (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/listen-roald-dahl-not-jenny-mccarthy-vaccinate-children-measles)
I have read that a few people can be very badly affected by vaccines because they do, after all, contain tiny amounts of the relevant disease, but most seem to do fine.
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Sorry for harping on this but I just discovered that a grandchild had a turned eye - post vaccine, as Andrew Moulden suggested. His uncle had the same. No more vaccines for them.
There will never be truth in the media. That is obvious.
There is such a massive amount of money involved in this that the same companies that make the vaccines have long ago bought up the media outlets including the internet versions.
I can pick up a "free" magazine anywhere in Canada that all look the same (size and content) and all have the same stories. On one page you'll see a "study" that shows that [fill in the blank: on drug company propaganda dissing everything from raw food to alternative medical modalities]
Then on the opposite page, (while this garbage is fresh in your mind), it will have articles on promising new drugs to help sufferers of [fill in the blank on the most lucrative diseases] Remember that billions and billions are at stake. I heard around 900 Billion in the whole biz. Additionally egos the size of mountains (Doctors) are at stake. Also their pocketbooks because they make a bundle off of a really sick child. Lots of visits/drugs.
Now that antibiotics sales have peaked long ago and going downhill in sales due to MRSA, there is only one drug company in the world that apparently makes them in large amounts and they have no research dollars in them, so unless they can drum up some business by creating a disease scare like ebola, measles, you name it, they are going to be "cash strapped."
A friend of mine deals in Stocks and so forth and tells me that the drug companies used to be at the top of the heap in money making for a very long time, but have slipped from that throne in the last number of years.
It is not just Andrew Wakefield or Andrew Moulden, There is a whole host of others ringing the alarm bells. The latest I heard was a vet who told horror stories of PPLs pets being horribly damaged by the jabs.
In Canada there is no keeping of records of vaccine reactions. Surprise surprise!!!
If you bothered to watch the vids you would see that Dr Wakefield was a researcher who was using data to prove what he was saying. He did not start out with a conclusion and work backward.
TD
The person who you linked to was just talking. He said nothing of substance and threw around names of the rich and famous in as derogatory a fashion as could muster. I am assuming that his whole story was written for him by 'english majors' working for the drug companies.
The whole idea behind Allopathy is that science reigns king, but when a scientist finds something that the medical establishment doesn't want to hear, he is trashed.
Andrew Moulden amongst other things said that vaccines cause mini-strokes in PPL and of course if you are a child susceptible for whatever reason then you will have one which results in generally permanent damage.
Another problem is that for reasons that the two Andrews and a whole host of other Allopathic physicians, etc., writers, explain the 'guts' of the children become unable to digest properly. Often getting rid of dairy, gluten and some other problem foods (as per http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/18/autistic-children-gut-flora.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/18/autistic-children-gut-flora.aspx) ) can be a clue to solving at least some of the problems. However if Doctors admit that this can be done then they first have to admit there is a problem and so they might all be sued and more importantly look stupid for not picking up on the problem in the first place.
However the monumental egos of the Doctors will not admit that AW was trying to help by introducing these notions.
I am surprised that you guys are not on board for this, because the next step for all of this propaganda will be an incremental move towards mandatory vaccination for all. Sounds goofy, but just give it time. Ron Paul is right. Tyranny slows creeps up on the populace. You'll be getting a vaccine for everything.
Personally I do not know whether vaccines are ultimately going to prove out a good or bad idea, but it is obvious that more objectivity needs to happen with science because nobody really knows.
Bear in mind that Doctors were prominently featured in ads for cigarettes in days gone by.
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This interview with Dr Mercola interviewing AW, tells the story. This story has been repeated thousands of times in history by similar Doctors/researchers/interested PPL who have been trashed in the media by some or other powerful person/group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d40suCKnjbI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d40suCKnjbI)
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Here's an article opposing Wakefield:-
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/listen-roald-dahl-not-jenny-mccarthy-vaccinate-children-measles (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/listen-roald-dahl-not-jenny-mccarthy-vaccinate-children-measles)
I have read that a few people can be very badly affected by vaccines because they do, after all, contain tiny amounts of the relevant disease, but most seem to do fine.
Interesting, I just noticed on reread a comment by the writer. He hung himself. He admitted that anyone with an education can see the issues with the science or lack thereof..
" Vaccine refusers are more likely to have a university degree than those who accept vaccination, so this is not even about throwing statistics at those who might have studied statistics."
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I really doubt vaccines injected into the bloodstream can have a large enough effect on gut flora to cause autism. It doesn't pass the bullshit test.
Raw-al, Tyler and I are the sharpest minds on the subject of health and nutrition on this board. A great deal of our knowledge and skill in this area comes directly from taking ALL claims, conventional/traditional/alternative or whatever, and sifting out the bullshit. We have, as a result, gotten very good at it. We've had lots of practice.
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I really doubt vaccines injected into the bloodstream can have a large enough effect on gut flora to cause autism. It doesn't pass the bullshit test.
I don't know how anybody could reasonably trust without second thought something that is introduced in the body by bypassing every natural border and filters. I mean, this is how stinging and venomous creatures are able to successfully kill their victim....
Raw-al, Tyler and I are the sharpest minds on the subject of health and nutrition on this board. A great deal of our knowledge and skill in this area comes directly from taking ALL claims, conventional/traditional/alternative or whatever, and sifting out the bullshit. We have, as a result, gotten very good at it. We've had lots of practice.
Well someone's feeling cocky today!! ;)
It is unwise to underestimate the knowledge and reasoning ability of people you know so little about...You'd be surprised.
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I really doubt vaccines injected into the bloodstream can have a large enough effect on gut flora to cause autism. It doesn't pass the bullshit test.
Raw-al, Tyler and I are the sharpest minds on the subject of health and nutrition on this board. A great deal of our knowledge and skill in this area comes directly from taking ALL claims, conventional/traditional/alternative or whatever, and sifting out the bullshit. We have, as a result, gotten very good at it. We've had lots of practice.
So you are basing this on your doubts.... I thought science was supposed to be the basis of statements.
Injecting two neurotoxins into an infant's blood vessels is not going to have an effect. Not having done any science on combining multiple doses of vaccine given simultaneously you think that magically there will be no effect?
Take the time to listen to the YTs before you type.
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If a person has a severe infection, then the virus/bacteria will be in their bloodstream, right? If so, what's the difference between that and having dead virus/bacteria injected into the bloodstream?
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If a person has a severe infection, then the virus/bacteria will be in their bloodstream, right? If so, what's the difference between that and having dead virus/bacteria injected into the bloodstream?
Vaccinations do not just contain dead microbes.
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/different-types-vaccines (http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/different-types-vaccines)
A baby does not have a complete immune system. It requires colostrum from mother's milk as well as Gawd only knows what else to solidify it. Basically we are tossed out of the womb when really have not developed sufficiently to survive.
Additionally I suspect that our non-raw diet has contributed to our innate weakness.
Also vaccines contain the most powerful neurotoxins available. (Aluminum and Mercury) They have not been tested as they are grandfathered in. The vaccine rules are something to behold. The more I hear the scarier they sound.
Also the single vaccines have been tested, but not the combinations which is what Peter Wakefield was saying seemed to be the problem. The vaccines that he was mainly concerned about, were rejected in Japan and Canada because of serious problems, but the UK government seemed to be OK with them and gave the "home team" vaccine company the green light and accepted the liability for them.
Also the "Lancet" magazine's publisher, just happened to be on the board of the "Home Team" vaccine manufacturer. Funny how "follow the money" works.
One idiot who was attacking PW has been suggesting giving 10,000 different vaccination in a jab. The whole media circus chasing after PW sounds much like the propaganda mill that "Confessions Of An Economic Hitman" talks about.
The story behind the mumps vaccination is absolutely stunning.
The whole medical system is in need of an overhaul. You get your license and then no more training required, except for classes held by the drug companies on their new wares.
In my business, every year and sometimes biannually (Depending on licenses etc) you have to prove your metal in a retest. Fail and you are unemployed. Written and flight (or simulator) testing, plus training on probably a dozen or more topics which must be all signed off.
Pilots are regulated by the Government. Doctors are self-regulated. Therein lies the problem, IMHO. The fox is looking after the henhouse.
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If a person has a severe infection, then the virus/bacteria will be in their bloodstream, right? If so, what's the difference between that and having dead virus/bacteria injected into the bloodstream?
A severe infection doesn't come suddenly.
The "dead" virus/bacteria, as has been seen many many times on people, are not always dead... Also the injected amount of viruses/bacteria; if the infection comes gradually, you don't get such an amount in one dose.
Raw-al, Tyler and I are the sharpest minds on the subject of health and nutrition on this board. A great deal of our knowledge and skill in this area comes directly from taking ALL claims, conventional/traditional/alternative or whatever, and sifting out the bullshit. We have, as a result, gotten very good at it. We've had lots of practice.
Someone who is sharp enough would never say something like this.
How about using the bullshit sifting on yourself? You'd be surprised... If you are full of it, then all the external information you go through will be effected by what you are full of; in other words biased conclusions.
As said, "It is unwise to underestimate the knowledge and reasoning ability of people you know so little about...You'd be surprised." -- To this I'll add: Don't overestimate yourself.
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So what's the difference between "live" virus from an injection versus a severe infection? None of you have an answer, you just have innuendo, insults, misdirection, and anxiety. None of those equals an answer to that question. Get it together, control your emotions, and come back when you have an answer.
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So what's the difference between "live" virus from an injection versus a severe infection? None of you have an answer, you just have innuendo, insults, misdirection, and anxiety. None of those equals an answer to that question. Get it together, control your emotions, and come back when you have an answer.
Let us ask how they arrive at the proper live virus strain to put into our vaccines. Often vaccines are genetically engineered crosspieces hybrids that would never occur naturally to begin with. These live Franken bugs are injected into the body, which by passes the normal rout that pathogens take before being greeted by our immune systems. Because the live virus vaccine by passes the normal lines of defense , it is able to imbed itself deep into the bodies tissues, before the immune system has a chance to confront it. Consider that, along with the fact that the immune response to vaccination is much weaker to that of a naturally occurring inoculation, so that the acute cytokine response which causes high temperature, vomit, diarrhea, and the development of antigens which occurs under natural inoculation, may not be strong enough, to fully clear the viral DNA from the body in the vaccinated person.
The vaccinated person will have produced anti bodies to the virus which allow for a suppressed immune response during future exposures, but it will not have completely cleared the virus from the deep tissues, where it can remain for years causing chronic autoimmune dysfunction throughout the body. This could be why people with autism or other chronic digestive disorders, who have been vaccinated for measles, will have live measles present in brain and gut biopsies.
As bad as having a full out viral episode can be, with the vomiting, fever, pain delirious, and whatnot, it may be necessary to be able to clear the viral DNA completely, along with the accumulated bio toxins and genetic glitches that made one susceptible to begin with. Vaccination, only stimulates the body to produce antibodies against the viral DNA, and does not condition the all out immune response that is necessary to boost overall health and immune function.
Bruce Lipton explains fairly well the difference between being naturally inoculated, and being vaccinated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2558AXg-o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2558AXg-o)
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Can you just summarize the points he makes? So far you have some innuendo mixed with irrelevant facts. That does not add up to anything, so far.
Direct blood exposure is certainly possible without injections. Rabies is spread that way, for instance, through bites. What's the difference between a bite and an injection?
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So what's the difference between "live" virus from an injection versus a severe infection? None of you have an answer, you just have innuendo, insults, misdirection, and anxiety. None of those equals an answer to that question. Get it together, control your emotions, and come back when you have an answer.
You made a statement which was untrue. I simple responded to it with a fact. Facts are apparently a problem with you.
I am not anxious over anything. However your response is anxious.
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So what's the difference between "live" virus from an injection versus a severe infection? None of you have an answer, you just have innuendo, insults, misdirection, and anxiety. None of those equals an answer to that question. Get it together, control your emotions, and come back when you have an answer.
The way I see it CK is that vaccinations are a fear response. They are an emotional response. Terror that you are going to catch a flu. What I do is eat properly and therefore no problems.
I used to sit for 4.5 hours per day about .5 meter from a coworker swapping a headset with a microphone that had a foam tip, a perfect place for microbes to live. Also the air in an aircraft originates in the upper atmosphere and so is slightly different in composition, bone dry, and then it is passed through a compressor that compresses it till it reaches a temperature of about 600 C then it is squeezed through pipes and through a radiator which brings it down to a sensible temperature where it is mixed with cold air and then this windstorm blows by the crew. A recipe for illness. My coworkers would have colds, flus, whatever, regularly for whatever reason. I did not catch their illnesses. Why? I was a (cooked) vegetarian, so, so much for the reason for this site.... Reason was that I selected my foods according to Ayurvedic principles, meditated and exercised IMO.
A raw diet I have discovered reduces the need for such careful food selection.
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I look forward to the day when someone can tell me the difference between an infectious disease transmitted through a bite, versus a vaccine for that same disease through a needle injection.
Raw-al, I appreciate that reason is not something you're interested in. That's OK with me, I accept that.
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Can you just summarize the points he makes? So far you have some innuendo mixed with irrelevant facts. That does not add up to anything, so far.
Direct blood exposure is certainly possible without injections. Rabies is spread that way, for instance, through bites. What's the difference between a bite and an injection?
I was not aware that I was guilty of using innuendo or irrelevant facts. I am attempting to answer you as clearly as possible. Bruce Lipton explained in detail how the immune system of humans develop and mature under natural circumstances, its of paramount relevance, when discussing adverse immune reactions that may be implicated in conditions such as autism. The questions you are asking require a deeper understanding of the new science to even begin to answer, Even the most brilliant thinkers on the cutting edge are not yet able to entirely understand how everything really works. That being said, there are plenty of clues that shed some serious doubt on the established view of the biological sciences of genetics and immunology.
As difficult as these new revelations in the advancement of human knowledge may be to comprehend by those raised on the foundation of the old model, I will try my best to explain the jest of it, and answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.
Regarding rabies, and other infectious blood born conditions.... Rationally speaking newborn infants are not usually exposed to rabid animal mauling, or have some deep cut that could get infected, any mother who would allow such horrid things to occur would have their bloodlines weeded out through natural selection.
Yet we have the majority of infants born in the west today being injected with genetically modified hepatitis at birth ( sometimes only a couple of hours old) If you listened to what Bruce Lipton had to say, you would know that the immune system of new borns is not prepared to handle injections designed to stimulate artificial immune reactions.
The immune system of infants needs time to mature, and mothers milk along with a protective environment has naturally provided the optimal conditions for healthy immune development, since the beginning of mammalian history. Take note that the blood brain barrier in children does not become mature enough to effectively restrict viral infiltration of the brain, until at least age three. By that time the average child will have received dozens of injections. Around age 11 or so is when the immune system actual reaches maturity and the programing cells in the thymus begin to down shift. When you inject young children with live viruses before the immune system is prepared to deal with it, it is possible( especially if there are already underlying health imbalances) that the immune response will be inadequate to fully clear out the viral DNA, which can then ember itself into the tissue which can cause a whole host of chronic health issues.
Most people who advocate vaccinations against viral illness do not even know for sure what viruses are, nor do they realize the vital role they play in biological life. I challenge anyone to explain to me exactly what a virus is? Why are they Ubiquitous in nature?
I believe that they are essential for maintaining balance in nature, and when you artificially suppress viral cleanses, the acumualtion of biotoxins accumulate and lead to negative disease down the road. Polio for example, the majority of people contrated it, but only a few became crippled. Perhaps its function was to clean the signal cord from other accumulated toxins. For those who are extremely toxic or deficient the cleansing process can be damaging.....But what about those who go through the infection and are completely unharmed, could it be that childhood polio could be beneficial, and that by suppressing the viral outbreak you prevent the purging reaction which would cleans the spinal cord....When these people grow up and age, never haven gone through a naturally occurring viral cleanse, the accumulation of bio-waste could lead to degenerative conditions, such as the epidemics in degenerative back conditions, cancer, arthritis, etc.... we are seeing today. Vaccines by only stimulating antigen production, without causing the complete purging reactions, only do a half ass job, and there are many people who now believe that, in general, they do cause more harm than good.
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The way I see it CK is that vaccinations are a fear response. They are an emotional response. Terror that you are going to catch a flu. What I do is eat properly and therefore no problems.
I used to sit for 4.5 hours per day about .5 meter from a coworker swapping a headset with a microphone that had a foam tip, a perfect place for microbes to live. Also the air in an aircraft originates in the upper atmosphere and so is slightly different in composition, bone dry, and then it is passed through a compressor that compresses it till it reaches a temperature of about 600 C then it is squeezed through pipes and through a radiator which brings it down to a sensible temperature where it is mixed with cold air and then this windstorm blows by the crew. A recipe for illness. My coworkers would have colds, flus, whatever, regularly for whatever reason. I did not catch their illnesses. Why? I was a (cooked) vegetarian, so, so much for the reason for this site.... Reason was that I selected my foods according to Ayurvedic principles, meditated and exercised IMO.
A raw diet I have discovered reduces the need for such careful food selection.
I imagine you have considered also that it's not always what we eat, but what we don't eat. but then ( and I'm joking a little here ) maybe liters of diet (or not ) pepsi and fast food for lunch and dinner was part of your Ayurvedic meal plan. The guy behind Bullet Proof Coffee, decided when he was Three hundred pounds to make some changes. Now it seems we all need his laboratory derived coconut oil derivative etc... So all these diets have at least one thing in common, they get rid of Junk food.
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Saber, children under age 3 are already exposed to thousands of viruses simply by breathing. Few of them are potentially dangerous, but they are there. And guess what? Young children get bitten by dogs and cats pretty often, and are exposed to viruses through those bites.
So your theory has a hole. Got any answers?
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And did you really just recommend polio as a spinal cord detox? Have you thought about the possibility that a clean diet makes such a detox unnecessary? Or that the people eating the worst diets, while simultaneously needing the most detox, are the least likely to survive the infection without being severely crippled?
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And did you really just recommend polio as a spinal cord detox? Have you thought about the possibility that a clean diet makes such a detox unnecessary? Or that the people eating the worst diets, while simultaneously needing the most detox, are the least likely to survive the infection without being severely crippled?
Emphatically YES, YES, Yes to all of your questions.
People who are relatively pure and without deficiency, will most likely only have a mild reaction to viruses like polio, which will have an overall beneficial effect of mildly stimulating the immune system to do some light cleaning( which is necessary even in optimal environments). Even people or animals living on optimal diets still undergo periodic viral episodes, which are often triggered by environmental changes, such as season changes where you have toxic mold blooms, or a lack of sunlight and cold temperature that weakens the bodies detoxification systems. The common cold serves the same function and may be necessary to cleanse the upper respiratory tract) Viruses that induce hives like measles and mumps, indicate that bio toxins are being expelled through the skin. Each particular virus serves a biological function, and to suppress viral outbreak is like sweeping dirt under a rug and calling your house clean!
You are also correct that people eating the worse diets do require the most intense detox reactions are those who are most likely to suffer complications through viral detox episodes, but I insist if those viral detoxes are suppressed artificially, then the accumulation of metabolic , and environmental waste, will eventually lead to degenerative disease later on. The people who were "saved from polio" are the same people who are dying of cancer and giving birth to autistic children, because the necessary virally induced epigenetic adaptions where suppressed.
The people who would be prone to die from a viral episode should be Identified early on, and the focus should be on preventative lifestyle changes, and holistic ways to build immunity, so that when they eventually have to undergo an episode of viral detox, they will be strong enough to endure. Then afterward with the proper lifestyle adjustments, they can truly recover fully and begin to build a cleaner and healthier life.
In the end people are going to be crippled and suffer due to poor choices, or just bad fate.... regardless of why others may suffer, it is not right that you insist that sovereign individuals, who chose to take care of themselves in accordance to their own values, be forced into altering themselves through chemical injections, under the false notion that they could be carriers of some microbe that will harm other people that are to weak to fend off. This is a dangerous ideology that I will not let stand uncontested, wherever it turns up!
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I look forward to the day when someone can tell me the difference between an infectious disease transmitted through a bite, versus a vaccine for that same disease through a needle injection.
Raw-al, I appreciate that reason is not something you're interested in. That's OK with me, I accept that.
I am not trained in that topic, however Peter Wakefield is and that is why I posted his interviews. I was enlightened more than anything I knew previously and I recommend listening. I know it is time consuming.
Polls show that a massive amount of women do not trust pediatricians or are not sure whether to trust them is quite telling. Despite the massive amount of media hysteria about how safe vaccines are, women do not trust them like in the past and the numbers are increasing. Reason is that Mothers have an instinctive strong desire to protect their young. It's not a theoretical argument to them. The more that the medicos try to convince them the less they trust.
The problem is that if they go to a pediatrician and they get told to drug their child or there has to be an operation and they don't want to have anything to do with it, that the state (social services of some variety) may force them, makes many mothers terrified of having their child taken away or declared an unfit mother. This is not just some fantasy talk of a weird new world. I have spoken to many young mothers who said this in so many words to me. They have seen it in the papers where the Gov't has taken away children. With autistic children, parents get accused of being the cause etc. Some mothers of autistic kids have even taken their child and their own life, because they know that when they die the child will end up on the street dying in a horrible way.
See us guys are not quite as wired into 'parentness' as the ladies are.
When mothers get pregnant there is a rewiring of their brains and bodies. Their whole immune system is changed to allow a foreign body to exist inside them. Otherwise it would kill the foetus, in the same way that it kills a virus or tumour. Even the way that they think changes. They become more right-brained. I discussed this with some mothers one time after I read about it in some books on brain development and they all said that math questions get slotted to the back of the brain unless it is specifically required. They hone their ability to look after many problems associated with protecting nourishing etc the child. Multitasking.
ie. as Mark Gungor says "never put a man in charge of two children". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=814eR5K7KD8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=814eR5K7KD8)
I know that one of the problems associated with young girls becoming exposed to plastics for instance, is that it causes estrogens to be adjusted in them causing prematuration. The normal age of puberty in girls has accelerated about two years, ie breast formation etc. When this maturation occurs, there are physiological/mental changes that occur that cause them to think differently, slowing their abilities in left brained activity and thus school for instance suffers.
Their brains readjust to their new reality of possibly becoming a mother.
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None of that detracts from vaccine science. As for not trusting doctors, only an idiot thinks it's all or nothing. Vaccines are not a bad idea. Antibiotics often ARE, for instance.
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None of that detracts from vaccine science. As for not trusting doctors, only an idiot thinks it's all or nothing. Vaccines are not a bad idea. Antibiotics often ARE, for instance.
FYI: Antibiotics are in vaccines, especially the ones given to infants. Although, I would be more worried about the other poisons like formaldehyde.
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It's hilarious to have all these people educating me about health.
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It's hilarious to have all these people educating me about health.
I often find on this site and others that my most deeply held beliefs are totally manufactured by me. That's the value in continuing to talk.
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I often find on this site and others that my most deeply held beliefs are totally manufactured by me. That's the value in continuing to talk.
Yeah, what I usually find is that I spend a lot of time here wondering how to talk people out of their unsupported beliefs. I can only think of one belief that I have had to revise as a result of reading here, my support for raw dairy. I still use raw cream and butter, but even those are not appropriate for some people, like TylerDurden.
This place is a real slog for me, banning spammers and trying to help people who are not remotely to the point of being evidence-based yet. The only useful things I've learned here can be counted on one hand, and I've been here 6 years. 2 of those have been extremely useful, though, I admit. The Gokhale method is one of them.
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CK, your slogging is much appreciated!
I enjoy the diversity of belief here, evidence-based or not. After all, who doesn't have some evidence for his beliefs, invisible though it may be to others. Also, I have become a competent in raw-food handling and storage that I find in this forum, and I've changed many elements of my lifestyle because of what I have read here.
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I do my best. I remember how little I knew 15 years ago, when I was just getting into alternative health, and how evidence-based I was NOT, after I got into being 100% raw. It took quite a few years to even get the basics of my diet set, and there were sooooo many mistakes along the way. I try to be patient, given how headstrong and ignorant I was. I'm still headstrong, just not quite as ignorant.
The problem is threefold--
1. Cultures do have a irrational bias toward cooking, plus grains consumption, in most cases, so research that questions cooking/grains is ignored/discouraged. That makes it hard to gather solid evidence on those issues.
2. As a result, when many people find out that the scientific community ALSO is prone to these biases, they stop trusting ALL nutritional science, and just listen to raw food gurus.
3. Adding in the intentional suppression of nutritional facts by Big Pharma, plus their billions spent on pushing their drugs, just makes the trust issue worse.
so you end up with a lot of guru-followers.
Plus the fact that science education is inadequate doesn't help.
So this is the place where guru-worship goes to DIE. LOL and be reborn as open-minded, evidence-based ongoing inquiry, hopefully.
Nothing personal against the gurus, but that stuff is NOT helping. Actually, there are some vegan gurus that I have personal grudges against, but that's my own issue. They are a parasitic species that cannot survive if the host is healthy. Fix the ignorance, and they are no longer a problem. They are symptoms of an imbalance at the societal/cultural/species levels.
In my opinion.
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I too, appreciate CKs slogging, very much so.
On the areas we agree I find you a powerful aid in the effort to dispel irrational notions.... and on the areas we disagree I find your strong opposition, a motivation to dig deeper, in the way a Muse may inspire great art.
As for this being a place for gurus to die... where upon their funeral heap of broken logic, the wisdom of ages is composted and used to nourish the open mind..........that's one way to view what we do.
I would also say that its a place where the ideologies brought forth by certain gurus and other eminent thinkers, can duke it out, in the theater of the mind. There are fundamental differences of personal values that cannot be argued over, there are times when Primates will like whatever they like, logic and reason be damned. No matter how advanced or primitive, be it a banana or a theosophical stance, the monkeys have thier preferences and the Monks have their own. It can be a free for all sometimes, where there is much chicanery, obfuscation, and poo throwing, but often times breakthroughs are made that make this enterprise worthwhile, for those who participate.
Some eastern thinkers, of long ago began to believe that ignorance is an inherent part of the human mind, and that it will never be able to be " fixed" in a worldly way, though by practicing a disciplined life, one may be able to best cope with, or even transcend human limitations and sufferings.
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Well now that we are having a hug-fest ;) I agree wholeheartedly. Somebody somewhere always dredges up something that challenges those last remaining vestiges of your firm opinions.
Now I have a progeny who is a raw vegan.....
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Although I'm not religious, I like this quote from the Bible--"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." --Proverbs 27:17.
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Well now that we are having a hug-fest ;) I agree wholeheartedly. Somebody somewhere always dredges up something that challenges those last remaining vestiges of your firm opinions.
Now I have a progeny who is a raw vegan.....
ROFL on the hug-fest.
At least your kid eats raw. Just make sure they're getting plenty of fat and trace minerals, and maybe get them to read chapters 15-19 of Dr. Price's book. That's what converted me away from veganism.
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Our children are of course just like us. It is amazing how similar we are. I went through phases and so understand that preaching is useless.
I understand about the fat, that was my first statement. I'll check out Dr. Price's book, thanks for the heads up.
I know she likes to eat fat and I gave some suggestions re: fats and sweet foods.
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Yeah, a year or two of high-fat raw veganism is not going to cause any lasting problems, most likely. Try to get her to read those chapters, though. They saved me from wasting even more time than I already had.
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Don't know if anyone has seen this, but has very interesting points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj5XjATNHuw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj5XjATNHuw)
It becomes more and more obvious that vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with prevention of diseases...
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Interesting on how drugs can be marketed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXb6yXntNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXb6yXntNY)
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http://globalnews.ca/news/2716409/this-is-not-a-cry-for-pity-non-speaking-teen-writes-profound-letter-explaining-autism/ (http://globalnews.ca/news/2716409/this-is-not-a-cry-for-pity-non-speaking-teen-writes-profound-letter-explaining-autism/)