Author Topic: Totally raw green coffee  (Read 12901 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Totally raw green coffee
« on: May 25, 2013, 11:30:56 pm »
The recent green coffee bean craze, boosted by Dr. Oz, is an interesting confirmation of the benefits of raw Paleo, if it's more than just hype. Starbucks is even cashing in on the craze, though their green tea products have added ingredients, are highly processed, and probably not raw (http://www.starbucks.com/promo/refreshers).

The coffee bean is a fruit seed/pit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_bean, rather than a legume (and some even regard certain legumes that are edible raw, such as tamarinds, jicama and groundnuts, as raw Paleo anyway). I'm posting this in the general forum because...

> I've never seen anyone claim that raw fruit seeds aren't raw Paleo (though I have seen caveats about sprouting and such)
> this thread is about raw green coffee beans, rather than the roasted variety
> while the raw beans themselves are too tough for me to bother eating them (though out of curiosity I softened some in my mouth until flavor was produced and they actually weren't that bad, though still not worth the bother), coffee water produced from soaking them is edible raw and I find it tasty
> fruit seed threads have been accepted in the general forum before, such as http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/eating-fruit-seeds-and-pips-good-for-you/msg99418/ and http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/health/prevent-cancer-with-apricot-seeds/msg89593/

Caveat: because fruit seeds contain much higher concentrations of plant toxins than fruit flesh, it may be wise to limit intake. My thinking here is that raw green coffee bean water may be hormetic and a better alternative to roasted coffee, not that raw green coffee is fine in unlimited amounts.

I sometimes drink coffee and I've been using the lightest-roast (tan) coffee beans I could find between local shops and Amazon and soaking them overnight in cold water in a French Press instead of using boiling water and then either lightly heating it in a microwave just enough to melt added butter or drinking it cold. Unaware of the recent green coffee craze, I then read about the reported anti-aging benefits of green coffee beans at Vince Giuliano's blog www.anti-agingfirewalls.com and wondered if they could be purchased and if "coffee" made from them would be palatable. I did some searching and found that vegan super athlete Rich Roll makes coffee from unroasted beans (see below) and I found and bought a 1 pound size of The Bean Coffee Company brand Costa Rican green coffee beans at Amazon to try them.

I ground the beans a bit--they are tougher and therefore more difficult to grind than roasted beans--and soaked them overnight in the French press, as usual. I was surprised to find that the resulting coffee water, while very mild, tasted rather good to me--mildly nutty and sweet, similar to raw cacao--especially by the third day I tried it, despite Tim Ferriss' writing that it's "Slightly bitter and somewhat flavorless." Maybe it's because I notice subtle flavors much more since eating mostly raw?

It's early to tell, but I seem to notice some of the energy and feeling of well being I get from roasted coffee beans without the jitteriness or muscle achiness I get if I drink too much roasted coffee, or too often.

---*---

Here's some info on raw green coffee beans:

Three identified ingredients in green coffee believed to produce beneficial effects (hypthesized as due to hormesis and/or antioxidant activity) are chlorogenic acid, caffeine and caffeic acid (unrelated to caffeine).

Green Coffee Bean Extract: Fat-Burner or Fraud?

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/green-coffee-bean-project

Vincent Giuliano wrote that the xenohormetic ingredients in green coffee beans include caffeic acid and chlorogenic acid and that "Green coffee beans are good. These polyphenols are damaged by the heat with coffee bean roasting." Chlorogenic acid and caffeic acid inhibit DNA methyltransferases (DNMTs). DNMTs "silence" genes that promote health and anti-aging when active. (Source: Vincent Giuliano, http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2013/05/07/part-1-slaying-two-dragons-with-one-stone-how-to-prevent-cancer-and-aging-with-the-same-strategy)

"Coffee is a notable source of caffeine. However, coffee’s effects on glycemic control and weight loss have been attributed to its other components, including chlorogenic acid, quinides, lignans, and trigonelline, all of which have been shown to improve glucose metabolism in animal studies.
 
Chlorogenic acid has specifically been shown to inhibit an enzyme, glucose-6-phosphatase, that promotes the formation of glucose (sugar) in the liver. Hence, chlorogenic acid in coffee may be responsible, at least in part, for the reduced risk of glycemic disorders, like diabetes, with long-term coffee consumption.
 
It may also be the source of coffee’s anti-obesity effects. Various studies have suggested that chlorogenic acid slows absorption of fat from food intake and also activates metabolism of extra fat. Unfortunately, traditional brewed coffee doesn’t serve as a good source of chlorogenic acid. While roasting green coffee beans removes its naturally bitter taste, it also removes a significant portion of chlorogenic acid. Hence, green coffee beans remain one of the best natural sources for chlorogenic acid."
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/fact-sheet-green-coffee-bean

Vegan super-athlete Rich Roll uses green coffee beans:
"Fat Loss. Similar to green tea and grape seed extract, organic raw (green) coffee beans have powerful anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant properties effective in combating free radical damage. Benefits in weight management are due to two active compounds, caffeine (lower in green beans) and chlorogenic acid (which is destroyed by roasting) [TIM: Also found in my perennial fave, yerba mate]. The caffeine releases fatty acids into the bloodstream from stored body fat, while the chlorogenic acid increases efficiency of metabolizing these fats while inhibiting sugar (glucose) absorption by the blood stream.

Simply grind the green beans and prepare in a French Press like normal coffee. Alternatively, place the ground beans in water in the sun to brew iced coffee. However, don’t expect it to taste like coffee – it doesn’t. Slightly bitter and somewhat flavorless, try adding erythritol to sweeten. Nor will it give you a boost; its caffeine content is significantly lower than roasted beans.

There was a rumor that Starbucks was test-marketing some iced green bean elixirs, but I have yet to see it hit stores. Probably didn’t test well."
- Tim Ferriss, http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2012/05/23/10-uncommon-superfoods-from-the-world-of-ultra-endurance

"While the caffeine content in coffee may play a role in weight loss, chlorogenic acid, lignans and other elements have a stronger effect on glucose metabolism as well as other less discussed benefits of green coffee bean extract. Unfortunately, traditional coffee is not a good source of chlorogenic acid.

The process of roasting green coffee beans removes the bitter taste associated with coffee, but it also removes much of the chlorogenic acid. Raw, unroasted green coffee beans are the best natural source of CGA.

Green coffee bean supplements usually contain an extract of chlorogenic acid and other hydroxycinnamic acids. These ingredients have proven antioxidant properties that are beneficial for health. Test subjects who took green coffee supplements lost an average of 18 pounds over a 12-week period. They lost fat from their bellies and other parts of the body."
http://www.sao.org/is-green-coffee-bean-extract-really-a-solution-for-belly-fat

New Evidence That Caffeine Is a Healthful Antioxidant in Coffee
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110504095630.htm

Antioxidant activity of caffeic acid (3,4-dihydroxycinnamic acid)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X05004786

Bee propolis can contain caffeic acid. See Antioxidant activity of propolis: role of caffeic acid phenethyl ester and galangin, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12495706
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 02:31:13 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Alive

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 05:49:41 am »
Thanks Paleo Phil, your post is very interesting.
Its great that green coffee beans are anti-inflammatory, and the other benefits look worth experimenting with. I am looking forward to try it this  :)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 06:45:47 am by alive »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 06:24:38 am »
You're welcome, Alive. Mind you, I'm very early in my experiment, so I may change my mind about it, and I suggest starting out with a small amount (such as the 1 lb bag size I tried), because the flavor and mouth feel is very different than roasted coffee. I generally try to start out with small amounts whenever I try a food that's new to me, so I won't feel foolish or angry if I don't like it, and I try to think of each new experiment as an adventure that could go well or badly, yet be fun and informative either way. I think a positive and adventurous attitude helps with such things. Normally I like to try something for a while before posting about it, but I was sufficiently surprised by the relatively good taste and good feeling I had afterwards that I decided to go ahead and post about it.

Today I tried steeping it in boiling water, the way most people use a French Press, and found it didn't taste nearly as good, didn't give me any good feeling, and caused lots of belching, which heated liquids invariably do to me. I threw out most of that batch. I wonder if the bitter taste reported in the article at Tim Ferriss' site is due to heating it.

I also found that I could soak the green coffee beans overnight twice and still get good flavor, but the third time it tasted sour/off and I discarded that batch.

This should be surprising to no one here, but I found the absolute worst-tasting and most harmful of all the coffees I've tried was a Starbucks (aka Charbucks) dark roast. Blech!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 06:34:33 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 08:36:31 am »
I generally try to start out with small amounts whenever I try a food that's new to me, so I won't feel foolish or angry if I don't like it, and I try to think of each new experiment as an adventure that could go well or badly, yet be fun and informative either way. I think a positive and adventurous attitude helps with such things. Normally I like to try something for a while before posting about it...

Yep.  I wish I could boil this advice down to something even shorter and simpler.  This is a pretty important lesson.

Offline bookittyrun

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2013, 01:22:37 pm »
very interesting read...  thanks!  your topics always intrigue.

did you say "butter" in your coffee? 
"it'll be just like a sleepover, only we'll be sweaty and covered with grease!"  spongebob squarepants

Offline Suiren

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2013, 05:03:04 pm »
I find this very interesting, and if it really is not bad for you why not?
Nyd byþ nearu on breostan; weorþeþ hi þeah oft niþa bearnum
to helpe and to hæle gehwæþre, gif hi his hlystaþ æror.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 12:04:56 am »
Thanks folks.

Yes, butter coffee--I was experimenting with butter coffee and butter tea (after learning about them from Dave Asprey, the author of The Bulletproof Executive--Dave also adds MCT oil to his "upgraded" butter coffee) before this raw green coffee experiment. I found them much superior to cream or milk in coffee or tea, though not raw Paleo, of course, and too much black coffee does make me jittery.

One caveat is that raw green coffee has not been a staple of the human diet for a significant time, so I am a bit of a guinea pig and can't guarantee there won't be any ill effects. Also, green coffee is not an option offered at workplace or social functions, so black coffee, tea and heavily chlorinated water are still often the least bad beverage options on such occasions.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 03:19:09 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline bookittyrun

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 02:30:14 am »
totally cool, and interesting.  for me, i'd like to avoid the coffee altogether, but that hasn't happened yet.  i do know, there are small coffee roasters who will sell the unroasted green coffee beans, ie: willoughby's in connecticut supplied unroasted green beans to a customer, who owned his own roasting machine.  i always went for the pre-roasted kona beans, i thought they did a really good job...  mmm...  haven't had that for a few years... 

i'm curious to know what you determine about this, when you've come to a conclusion...
"it'll be just like a sleepover, only we'll be sweaty and covered with grease!"  spongebob squarepants

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 02:32:36 am »
Other than the one time, I haven't noticed a boost from the green coffee like I often get from roasted. It does taste nice and cause less belching, though.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Maggi070

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 05:51:56 pm »
i've been looking into green coffee extract too. This Doctor Oz seems to be saying good things about it in his study  on his TV show. The case study done by him on his TV shown here WATCH PROOF of Green Coffee Extract Weight Loss Working on Dr Oz Show seems to be pretty convincing. I may give it a try based on the results some of those women have seen in that video.

Maggy

I find this very interesting, and if it really is not bad for you why not?

Offline Maggi070

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2013, 05:48:58 pm »
The link i posted has been taken down by YT for some reason. Here is another video by Dr Oz on his TV show here TRY MIRACLE Green Coffee Bean Extract as Natural Weight Loss Supplements on Dr Oz which discusses how good Green coffee extract is

i've been looking into green coffee extract too. This Doctor Oz seems to be saying good things about it in his study  on his TV show. The case study done by him on his TV shown here WATCH PROOF of Green Coffee Extract Weight Loss Working on Dr Oz Show seems to be pretty convincing. I may give it a try based on the results some of those women have seen in that video.

Maggy

Offline Alive

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 07:06:42 pm »
Quote
Green Coffee Bean Extract Probably Won't Help You Lose Weight
And, according to this new mouse study, the common diet supplement might make you more likely to develop type 2 diabetes.
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-06/green-coffee-bean-extract-probably-wont-help-you-lose-weight

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2013, 03:45:05 am »
That study and article report an unusual finding that heated black coffee produces benefits, while raw coffee produces harm (in mice fed high-fat diets). Not likely to be a popular finding in this forum,  ;D but it's good to look for exceptions to one's hypotheses.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Dr. D

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 02:54:39 am »
Not everything raw is perfectly edible. We shouldn't try to hold to a dogma that just because it is raw then its good. Afterall, we are dealing with raw BEANS, which are by nature not paleo. We are also dealing the the concept of something inedible being made edible through cooking.

Plenty of people receive drastic benefits from coffee. My Grandma's cousin was prescribed by her doctor (nearly 30 years ago) 6 strong Swedish cups of coffee for heart issues. The caffeine sure did keep her heart steady ;)
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 10:12:43 am »
Coffee beans are not actually legume beans, despite being called beans. They are fruit seeds/pits:

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/06/a-coffee-bean-is-not-actually-a-bean/

The fruit flesh around the seed is very edible and reportedly tasty (I spoke to a South American man who eats it when he's in his country), but doesn't travel or store well, so it is not shipped to the USA, just the fruit seeds.

Because they are fruit pits, coffee beans are more like apricot pits (used in making laetrile) than legume beans.

FWIW, humans actually did eat raw legumes, such as groundnuts and groundnut tubers, during the Paleolithic. The problem may be more that people outside of Africa don't have easy access to the African legume nuts and tubers that are very edible raw, though we do have access to the American legume tuber jicama and the yacon tuber of the sunflower family that are edible raw.

Apios americana, aka potato bean, is an American legume tuber and groundnut that used to be popular and is being re-domesticated again, after its potential came to be re-appreciated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apios_americana . Some claim that the tubers are edible raw, though probably only in small quantities. http://www.eattheweeds.com/groundnuts-anti-cancer-treat/
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 10:29:53 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Dr. D

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2013, 12:50:58 pm »
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffea

Apparently the seeds come from inside the flower.

I still want to bring into question the edibility of these fellows. I wonder what iguanas instinct would say?

Idk, I'm not advocating for or against raw coffee personally. More of devil's advocate to find truth.

Edit: I just reread your original post. You've covered most of what I can think of: edible but to be limited, hormesis, growth type. I should pay more attention, that's twice today. I'm now THAT guy. I always appreciate your posts Phil.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 01:15:40 pm by Dr. D »
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Totally raw green coffee
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2013, 07:04:15 pm »
Thanks Dr. D. Yeah, green coffee beans and apricot pits don't taste that bad to me, strangely enough, but I agree with seeing them as hormetic at best, rather than as true foods in the sense of providing good nutrition for yourself or your gut bacteria.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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