Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Welcoming Committee => Topic started by: jennie on October 31, 2010, 04:46:15 pm
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Hi, my name is Jennie, I'm a 4th day raw carnivoer
A year ago I felt so sick I was willing to try anything, or almost anything, but it seems like I'm getting there fast.
I was a frutarian for 4 months, then vegetarian/vegan for a few months only interrupted by two water fasts of 14 days, several short fasts.
Thanks to this madness I developed toothdecay.
I started eating cooked meat again a few months ago, but don't feel it's helping much, so I decided to go raw. I've been juicing some vegetables like squash, broccoli and sellery. Last two weeks I've been drinking unpasturized milk, couldn't stop, but will not be using any milk product anymore.
Yesterday I only ate raw eggs and raw beef, also took som unfermented cod liver oil, and am going to get some raw fish and liver next week.
I'm feeling a bit anxiety, maybe I'm reaching ketosis since I haven’t eaten any vegetables? I'm not sure if I should go with cero carb or include some vegetables, I read that some peoples teeth get worse with cero carb. Could someone please advise?
Thank you :)
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Welcome!
IMO there is no reason to go zero carb/low carb unless you have some sort of blood sugar issue or simply can't tolerate carbs anymore. There have been plenty of members here who have healed there teeth with an omnivorous diet. Unless you enjoy the taste I would suggest against juicing squash because of it being a nightshade.
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This is something people have to experiment on their own with to find out. Some, like me, have tried raw zero carb and then found after a few days or weeks that it was doing them considerable harm so that they had to stop and go raw omnivorous. Others have tried RZC and only experienced minor issues while transitioning before getting much better than on a rraw, omnivorous diet. When I tried it a few times, I had a drop in sports performance within a few days, but only got serious health-problems after 3 weeks had passed. After 5-6 weeks, I was forced to give up and go raw omnivorous because my health had deteriorated so fast(teeth practically falling out due to looseness etc.)
My guess would be that(provided you were not zero-carb immediately before that point) if on a raw omnivorous diet with plenty of carbs you feel ghastly after eating any carbs, then a RZC diet is probably best for you, otherwise not. To play safe, I would suggest going raw omnivore for a while, generally speaking, and only going RZC if your progress isn't satisifactory. Not sure how to rate other people's progress, but most of my really serious symptoms slowly vanished within a 4 month period after going rawpalao and finally cutting out all raw dairy.
Good that you got rid of the raw dairy. Cravings are a common sign of having a food-allergy.
1 thing:- When on a RZC diet, it is really important to add extra raw grassfed animal fat to your diet, as otherwise you can get rabbit-starvation. Some like raw suet, others raw marrow or raw tongue or just buy very fatty meats like raw mutton.
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OH, and I would strongly suggest that you eat raw solid fruits and veg. Veggie-juice is the 2nd most complained about food on a RVAF diet. It is suspected that shredding the cell-walls in this way not only makes the nutrients in veg more bioavailable, but also the antinutrients as well, thus causing nutritional deficiencies in some people over time.
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I really need this advice.
I've been unable to gain weight the last couple of months, I'm 1,69 and before the unpasturized milk period i weighed 53kg, but this made me gain 4 kg. I figured I don't like the taste in my mouth from dairy product (also saw a picture of Aajonus who appear to be using lots of dairy).
I'll try to get my hands of the fatty parts and will not be juicing the vegetables.
Thank you so much! :)
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Well, I would suggest going raw omnivore first (ie add some raw fruits and maybe even some raw solid veg like radishes) before you try raw zero-carb. Quite aside from the fact that RZC has a number of potential health problems that might occur, going RZC/raw zero carb also means you get extra difficulties. For example, as a raw omnivore, I am still able to eat any raw plant food offered to me by acquaintances without having to tell them I am on a RVAF diet or whatever, plus travelling is easier for me than if I was RZC as I can easily buy raw fruit along the way etc.
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I'm having sellery, but not sure about the zucchini?
My gums are not well, so I don't think I would like to eat any fruits at the moment.
I have frozen suet and bone marrow bones in the freezer, is this ok to eat when I unfreeze it.
Thank you so much for the advice.
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Yep just let it thaw and eat it.
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I'm having sellery, but not sure about the zucchini?
My gums are not well, so I don't think I would like to eat any fruits at the moment.
I have frozen suet and bone marrow bones in the freezer, is this ok to eat when I unfreeze it.
Thank you so much for the advice.
Prefrozen meat is not ideal but is still fine to eat. Just do not thaw it and then refreeze it again and again. Just thaw a portion of prefrozen meat you have and then eat it in 1 go.
I doubt celery is any good. It is one of the few foods with negative calories, last I checked. My choice for raw veg would be things like raw radishes, raw carrots, raw cucumbers, raw avocadoes and the like, to be honest.
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Unless you enjoy the taste I would suggest against juicing squash because of it being a nightshade.
Do you have any links to this Kurite? I've never heard squash called a nightshade before and I'm not finding anything other than a few people speculating online with a search. AFAIK it's a part of the gourd family along with melons, cucumbers, etc.
I agree juicing isn't a great idea though.
Jennie; I agree with the others that a raw omnivorous diet is probably the way for you to go right now. It sounds like you're bouncing across a lot of diets in a fairly short span of time. Raw omni will be healing and if after a couple months you don't start seeing the gains in health you are striving for you can try going lower carbs (or full on carnivore).
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You might like to try and do some oil pulling with virgin coconut oil to heal your gums.
You can transition with raw omnivore low carb, then progress to very low carb, then zero carb / raw carnivorous so it's not so drastic. Take your time and enjoy the ride. Keep a journal. Take pics of yourself and your food.
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Thank you all for your advice.
I just started doing oilpulling with VCO.
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I know you're scared, but trust me you will be OK. Just stay on the forums and ask lots of questions. If health is your goal, you will reach it.
Just curious, why did you stop drinking raw milk?
For me it's been key to start gaining weight again.
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I doubt celery is any good. It is one of the few foods with negative calories, last I checked. My choice for raw veg would be things like raw radishes, raw carrots, raw cucumbers, raw avocadoes and the like, to be honest.
OH, and I would strongly suggest that you eat raw solid fruits and veg. Veggie-juice is the 2nd most complained about food on a RVAF diet. It is suspected that shredding the cell-walls in this way not only makes the nutrients in veg more bioavailable, but also the antinutrients as well, thus causing nutritional deficiencies in some people over time.
For all practical purposes, celery, cucumbers, and radishes all have zero calories. So why single out celery as being bad?
I find it hard to eat radishes, since they are usually very hot and spicy. This might be an indicator of anti-nutrients.
Do you have any links to this Kurite? I've never heard squash called a nightshade before and I'm not finding anything other than a few people speculating online with a search. AFAIK it's a part of the gourd family along with melons, cucumbers, etc.
I agree juicing isn't a great idea though.
You're right, squashes are not nightshades. I've recently been eating raw butternut squash. I also tried some cooked butternut squash. Even though squash is usually thought of as something that must be cooked to be edible, I actually like the raw squash better. It has a nice crunchy texture, whereas cooked squash is mushy and tastes to me like baby food.
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Celery isn't bad. Yeah, it costs your body more energy to digest it than it provides. But cellery has a lot of natural sodium which helps your digestion a lot. It helps form hydrocloric acid.
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Yes, I do get scared, but am trying to keep faith. Thank you for your support.
The dental situation is what made me want to give up milk. I feel my saliva goes a bit sour from it and I don't want to aggravate the situation. I felt I needed the milk in the beginning, but right now I don't have the craving anymore. I might have it again if I start craving it.
I also read that a lot of people with dental health problems do better when they stop consuming dairy.
I really don't know much about the benefits of different vegetables. Celery seems to have some good qualities. I've stopped eating salt. Is the sodium in Celery good when you have tooth problems?
I had raw boone marrow and it was nice, but I feel like I'm hungry all the time.
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Yes, I do get scared, but am trying to keep faith. Thank you for your support.
The dental situation is what made me want to give up milk. I feel my saliva goes a bit sour from it and I don't want to aggravate the situation. I felt I needed the milk in the beginning, but right now I don't have the craving anymore. I might have it again if I start craving it.
I also read that a lot of people with dental health problems do better when they stop consuming dairy.
I really don't know much about the benefits of different vegetables. Celery seems to have some good qualities. I've stopped eating salt. Is the sodium in Celery good when you have tooth problems?
I had raw boone marrow and it was nice, but I feel like I'm hungry all the time.
Dairy wont hurt your teeth trust me on that. You shouldn't stop eating salt it provides a huge spectrum of minerals. Find a good source of salt and eat a little bit every week. (Himalayan salt, good sea salt etc, not iodized junk)
And if you're hungry all the time try upping your fat intake, but don't overdo it. Listen to your body. Cellery is fine for your teeth. It sounds like you are undernourished and your body has started accessing your bones for minerals causing your teeth problem. The food it self is not the problem. You fasted way too much if I read your post correctly. Keep drinking milk if you have no problems with it.
Also, relax, be happy, your body will recover.
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I had raw boone marrow and it was nice, but I feel like I'm hungry all the time.
Eat some carbs, just enough to make you feel sated.
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It sounds like you are undernourished and your body has started accessing your bones for minerals causing your teeth problem. The food it self is not the problem.
I believe I'm on my last reserves and that the last months of cooked meat has not helped me get nourished.
People on this forum seems very happy about the benefit of their raw diet, thank you for the inspiration.
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The dental situation is what made me want to give up milk. I feel my saliva goes a bit sour from it and I don't want to aggravate the situation. I felt I needed the milk in the beginning, but right now I don't have the craving anymore. I might have it again if I start craving it.
I have had tooth problems in the past. Raw milk and raw cod liver oil and terramin clay have helped make my teeth stronger. Milk and clay contain minerals, and cod liver oil and milkfat contain vitamins which help assimilate those minerals. If your saliva goes sour from fresh milk, try butter, cheese, kefir, etc.
I also read that a lot of people with dental health problems do better when they stop consuming dairy.
Where did you read this?
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Several people state they did better without dairy on this forum, maybe it's not for everyone?
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/hello-help-with-enamel-issues/msg42767/#msg42767
(http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/hello-help-with-enamel-issues/msg42767/#msg42767)
In the book "Cure Toothdecay" dairy is highly recommended.
It's a lot of conflicting information, I wish I could know for sure - dairy or no-dairy
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Several people state they did better without dairy on this forum, maybe it's not for everyone?
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/hello-help-with-enamel-issues/msg42767/#msg42767
(http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/hello-help-with-enamel-issues/msg42767/#msg42767)
In the book "Cure Toothdecay" dairy is highly recommended.
It's a lot of conflicting information, I wish I could know for sure - dairy or no-dairy
There is no 1 way to execute this diet.
You have to find out what works for you.
I cannot digest dairy myself. (carabao, cow, goat)
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For all practical purposes, celery, cucumbers, and radishes all have zero calories. So why single out celery as being bad?
Oh, I didn't know, I had only heard of celery as being largely useless as a food and used for dieting purposes.
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I believe I'm on my last reserves and that the last months of cooked meat has not helped me get nourished.
People on this forum seems very happy about the benefit of their raw diet, thank you for the inspiration.
This is revealing. So many RVAFers experience problems with raw dairy that if anyone, such as you, who experiences any slight symptom from it in the short-term, it is likely to get serious problems from raw dairy in the long-term. I can see a major flaw in FTH's advice to consume raw dairy:- he claimed that your teeth issues were solely a result of eating a nutritionally-deficient diet(ie due to past raw vegan/fruitarian experiences) - however, if that were really so, then eating cooked meat should have done the trick alone as regards upping nutrient levels, as even cooked meats are complete foods.
And, of course, the cravings you felt towards raw dairy are a common symptom of allergy.
What is interesting is that pasteurised dairy has been linked to osteoprosis:-
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/206725/how_dairy_actually_causes_osteoporosis.html?cat=5
so, clearly, dairy is a problem re bone-loss, usually. Since the issue centres around the excess calcium in dairy, the same applies to raw dairy, of course, which has plenty of bioavailable calcium itself.
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This is revealing. So many RVAFers experience problems with raw dairy that if anyone, such as you, who experiences any slight symptom from it in the short-term, it is likely to get serious problems from raw dairy in the long-term. I can see a major flaw in FTH's advice to consume raw dairy:- he claimed that your teeth issues were solely a result of eating a nutritionally-deficient diet(ie due to past raw vegan/fruitarian experiences) - however, if that were really so, then eating cooked meat should have done the trick alone as regards upping nutrient levels, as even cooked meats are complete foods.
And, of course, the cravings you felt towards raw dairy are a common symptom of allergy.
What is interesting is that pasteurised dairy has been linked to osteoprosis:-
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/206725/how_dairy_actually_causes_osteoporosis.html?cat=5
so, clearly, dairy is a problem re bone-loss, usually. Since the issue centres around the excess calcium in dairy, the same applies to raw dairy, of course, which has plenty of bioavailable calcium itself.
So when I crave meat, it's due to an allergy? There are so many dimensions to craving something, so don't pretend you know the full spectrum of it.
No, she's been starved for over a year. Along with water fasting for over 30 days. A few days or weeks eating cooked muscle meat wont change that. It will take months to recover.
As far as dairy goes, I'm not gonna bother arguing. Only time will tell whether it proves harmful or not. The fact of the matter is I don't know and you certainly don't know either. All I know is that I have no harmful effects of dairy and you know it doesn't agree with you. So like with every single food group on the planet, there's research that says it's beneficial, and then there's research that says it's not.
So my advice Jennie, will be as always; Try a food out for a certain amount of time and see how you fare on it. Take peoples advice with a grain of salt. Especially of those who claim to have the 'right' answer.
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Cravings for raw dairy , by current accounts of dairy-allergic people, are often massive involving huge consumption of raw milk etc. By contrast, I have yet to hear of a similiar genuine case of people experiencing such cravings for raw meats that they literally cannot stop doing so and eat it to the virtual exclusion of everything else, which is what happens with dairy-allergic people frequently. Of course, by "cravings" you may solely be thinking of a major preference for raw meats, which is of course not as extreme as the intense cravings I am thinking of.
To cut things short, raw dairy is not an essential food for anybody. Raw meats definitely are, as they are complete foods; and , for many people, raw fruits are too, given that many do not do well on raw, zero-carb. Given that raw dairy is the raw food most complained about re RVAFers re ill-health, and the fact that Jennie has already had some slight issues with it already, it makes more sense to give it up for now - trying it later, of course, once health has been largely restored, for experimentation purposes.
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I decided to leave the dairy out, I have two teeth that objects to milk and I feel there is less mucus when leaving dairy out completely.
Why is it you need to eat so much more food on this diet? I used to feel full on two cooked lambchops and three boiled eggs. Just ate 3 beefs and bonemarrow, still I'm very hungry. I guess I have to eat something sweet or more fats? How much meat is it common to eat a day? At least bonemarrow is cheap.
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I decided to leave the dairy out, I have two teeth that objects to milk and I feel there is less mucus when leaving dairy out completely.
Why is it you need to eat so much more food on this diet? I used to feel full on two cooked lambchops and three boiled eggs. Just ate 3 beefs and bonemarrow, still I'm very hungry. I guess I have to eat something sweet or more fats? How much meat is it common to eat a day? At least bonemarrow is cheap.
Yeah, the trouble with slight allergies is that, while they may not significantly harm one's health, they can easily so waste the body's resources that the healing/recovery-rate is slowed down or stopped completely. It's all very well to eat a slightly allergenic food when you are healthy, but not a good idea when one is in ill-health already and trying to get better.
As for the claims re raw food-intake, actually many long-term RVAFers find they need to eat much less raw foods as rawpalaeo foods typically contain higher levels of nutrients than cooked foods, so they tend to eat less of them over time. Newbies tend to eat a lot more, I suspect, because they were nutritionally deficient in pre-rawpalaeo days and their bodies are telling them to instinctively eat as much as possible.
Minor caveats:- There are things that increase one's appetite on a RVAF diet. I have, for example, found that my appetite grows considerably the more raw carbs I add to my diet, so in times when I want to cut down/fast, I lower my carb-intake. Plus, I have also found that adding any spices to raw foods, even raw spices, means that I always end up eating far more than I really needed.Oh, and yes, more raw fats would help.
My (vague) rule is c. 1 or 1.2 kilos of raw meats/organ-meats a day, plus a few fruits, interspersed occasionally by whole-day fasts. I also do Intermittent Fasting(1 large meal every 24 hours, eaten within a 4 hour period) but that only works for some of us.
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Interesting infos Tylen, thanks, it's help ! :)
I took some raw sheep cheese as I wanted to try, but it seems that it is that which gave me a little sore throat and my gums were bleeding yesterday and my teeth more fragile.
Also I feel some acidity after eating it.
So I stop dairy and wait to see if symptoms continue.
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Thank you for the info, you're making this transition easier :)
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Several people state they did better without dairy on this forum, maybe it's not for everyone?
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/hello-help-with-enamel-issues/msg42767/#msg42767
(http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/hello-help-with-enamel-issues/msg42767/#msg42767)
In the book "Cure Toothdecay" dairy is highly recommended.
It's a lot of conflicting information, I wish I could know for sure - dairy or no-dairy
No wild animal drinks milk when adult, no wild animal routinely drinks milk form another animal specie. Dairy consumption is truly neolithic, so it's no part of any true paleodiet.
But if you are deprived of meat, eggs and seafood, it might be better to eat dairy rather than no animal food at all.
Francois
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No wild animal drinks milk when adult, no wild animal routinely drinks milk form another animal specie. Dairy consumption is truly neolithic, so it's no part of any true paleodiet.
But if you are deprived of meat, eggs and seafood, it might be better to eat dairy rather than no animal food at all.
Francois
i AGREE!
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About doing oil pulling with VCO, i felt my gums became irritated from it. Maybe it's the anti-nutrients. Swishing with cod liver oil has a calming effect on both teeth and gums. And cutting out milk has been great help as well.
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Dairy consumption is truly neolithic
False.. If you killa female animal it has milk. If you eat every part of an animal why wouldn't you drink the milk as well if it tasted good? The difference is that it's a small amount, infrequently, not a staple..
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About doing oil pulling with VCO, i felt my gums became irritated from it. Maybe it's the anti-nutrients. Swishing with cod liver oil has a calming effect on both teeth and gums. And cutting out milk has been great help as well.
A numbr of rawpalaeos also appear to have issues with raw coconut oil. My own experience was an absolute disaster - I tried it for the 1st time a couple of years ago and ended up with very, very painful stomach-aches as a result.
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A numbr of rawpalaeos also appear to have issues with rawcoconut oil. My own experience was an absolute disaster - I tried it for the 1st time a couple of years ago and ended up with very, very painful stomach-aches as a result.
So melodramatic. Disaster this disaster that.
Anywho, coconut oil works just fine for me.
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False.. If you killa female animal it has milk. If you eat every part of an animal why wouldn't you drink the milk as well if it tasted good? The difference is that it's a small amount, infrequently, not a staple..
No, no way to get any drop of milk form a dead female. Bruno Comby related on the Raw Food List that when he was on a hunting trip in Canada with some hunters, a female stag or elk (I don't remember; you can search on the Raw Food List) with a young was accidentally killed. He tried hard to get some milk from her but he failed.
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No, no way to get any drop of milk form a dead female. Bruno Comby related on the Raw Food List that when he was on a hunting trip in Canada with some hunters, a female stag or elk (I don't remember; you can search on the Raw Food List) with a young was accidentally killed. He tried hard to get some milk from her but he failed.
I shot a reindeer a few weeks ago and extracted all of its milk.
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I shot a reindeer a few weeks ago and extracted all of its milk.
May we know how you proceeded to extract it?
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So melodramatic. Disaster this disaster that.
Anywho, coconut oil works just fine for me.
Not at all, simply descriptive, given past accounts. Strange though it may seem to you, it is quite easily possible, at times, for others to get nasty side-effects from all sorts of foods, even 1 or 2 raw ones.
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So melodramatic. Disaster this disaster that.
you so enthusiastically display your insensibility
Anywho, coconut oil works just fine for me.
oh, that's why
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No, no way to get any drop of milk form a dead female. Bruno Comby related on the Raw Food List that when he was on a hunting trip in Canada with some hunters, a female stag or elk (I don't remember; you can search on the Raw Food List) with a young was accidentally killed. He tried hard to get some milk from her but he failed.
?????????????????????????????? LULWUT?????????????????????
Just???????? I keep starting to type a response but... then I just delete it and type more ?'s..
LOL???
Ok I've thought of a response.. But now I've got that annoying thing where I can't see what I'm typing -_-
"If the female has milk, one can get it".
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"If the female has milk, one can get it".
I would be very interested if anyone can explain me how to extract milk from a dead female - moreover without any container, pottery being Neolithic. ;)
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I would be very interested if anyone can explain me how to extract milk from a dead female - moreover without any container, pottery being Neolithic. ;)
Take a dead doe, flip her over, and cut through her sac/where she store her milk.
I read on some forum, that people who had killed female deer had indeed found milk, but its not a common thing, its supposed to be way more fatty than cow milk.
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Yeah there is a youtube video where the guy is field-dressing a doe and he just cuts through the breast and out comes the milk. I don't understand how that is hard that's all xD If you can cut through the skin for the meat how could you not cut through for the milk? Of course it's a different matter if there is no milk, then you can't extract any, but that's obvious.
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you so enthusiastically display your insensibility
oh, that's why
Huh? So if I don't act all melodramatic, I must be insensitive to my body?
Oh that's why what?
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Huh? So if I don't act all melodramatic, I must be insensitive to my body?
Oh that's why what?
Bit of hypocrisy there, FTH, as you are the one behaving like a drama-queen, given the above! ;) ;)
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Bit of hypocrisy there, FTH, as you are the one behaving like a drama-queen, given the above! ;) ;)
..........right
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<3
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Take a dead doe, flip her over, and cut through her sac/where she store her milk.
I read on some forum, that people who had killed female deer had indeed found milk, but its not a common thing, its supposed to be way more fatty than cow milk.
Even if more than a few drops of milk would come out this way (something I'm not sure at all until someone reports exactly how he has done it and how it worked), still one would have to collect that milk in a container. Since pottery is Neolithic, in the Paleo era the only kind of suitable container I can think of would be a half coconut shell. But I don't think there was many coconut trees around the hunting grounds.
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WHY DO YOU HAVE TO COLLECT IT IN A CONTAINER!?!? WTF?
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You mean you can suck it and drink it straight from the cut? Perhaps, but it remains to be seen. Any report of someone having been able to somehow drink milk from a dead female? I said Bruno Comby reported that he tried hard to do it by any means it but he failed.
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I could find one video I saw, which is nothing to do with drinking milk, but the guy is field-dressing a deer and cuts through the breast for it all to spill out... It's on youtube. If he wanted to drink it he easily could have, there was loads of it.
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It's on youtube.
Yes... any link ?
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No wild animal drinks milk when adult, no wild animal routinely drinks milk form another animal specie. Dairy consumption is truly neolithic, so it's no part of any true paleodiet.
But if you are deprived of meat, eggs and seafood, it might be better to eat dairy rather than no animal food at all.
Francois
clearly she is not interested in dairy... but, the "no wild animal eats dairy" is a silly argument as no wild animal eats krill oil or cod liver oil or all the other stuff people dream up on this site. ;)
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clearly she is not interested in dairy... but, the "no wild animal eats dairy" is a silly argument as no wild animal eats krill oil or cod liver oil or all the other stuff people dream up on this site. ;)
No, it isn't silly as the milk of each species is designed to be eaten by the infants of that species alone. Which is why wolves' milk is reportedly lethal to human babies over time, for example. Cows' milk may be "less worse" but that's all. As for krill oil or cod liver oil, they are somewhat processed and not ideal, being merely extras for those who are not able to get hold of really high quality raw foods all the time. And krill oil and cod liver oil are just foods, not designed by Nature to be consumed by a particular species.
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So melodramatic. Disaster this disaster that.
Anywho, coconut oil works just fine for me.
Amen... ForTheHunt,
You took the words out of my mouth.. :D
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No, it isn't silly as the milk of each species is designed to be eaten by the infants of that species alone. Which is why wolves' milk is reportedly lethal to human babies over time, for example. Cows' milk may be "less worse" but that's all. As for krill oil or cod liver oil, they are somewhat processed and not ideal, being merely extras for those who are not able to get hold of really high quality raw foods all the time. And krill oil and cod liver oil are just foods, not designed by Nature to be consumed by a particular species.
Tyler,
You are the queen of making up stories to fit your theories.
Do you have a "study" to support the feeding of wolves milk to babies being lethal over time. (I can't wait for this link). LOL
So did paleos who were not able to "get hold of really high quality raw foods all the time" build ships to go hundreds or thousands of miles out into the oil to find krills. LOL Were these same paleos the ones who couldn't fashion a bowl. C'mon give everyone a break.
Lots of people happily consume dairy and lots of people can't consume dairy. End of discussion.
I love it and am quite capable of stopping consuming it in a heartbeat with none of your silly horrible results. My teeth aren't falling out of my head. Same goes with the juicing of veges nonsense. I drink juice daily and have not passed onto the other world. Some can some can't.
I get the impression that you want everyone to be exactly like yourself and if they aren't, they are just deluding themselves and they are going to die an 'orrible death
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The above comments are particularly stupid in view of the fact that I have several times in the past stated that some people seem to do fine on raw dairy. "Lots of people" as a claim is , of course, totally false given that so many RVAFers have problems with raw dairy, judging from reports all over the Web. So this absurd business of using melodrama to accuse me of melodrama is just childish, at best.
As for the wolves' comment, it was mentioned somewhere online that wolves' milk contains way too high levels of casein for human babies to absorb properly, which is why it is thought that the notion of feral children being breastfed by wolves(re Romulus and Remus etc.) can only be mythical and not based on any truth. Of course, there are reportedly some mammal's milk which is even closer to human mother's milk in terms of content, such as mare's milk, but that is not a common type of raw dairy(though it used to be).
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clearly she is not interested in dairy... but, the "no wild animal eats dairy" is a silly argument as no wild animal eats krill oil or cod liver oil or all the other stuff people dream up on this site. ;)
People on this site are free to dream up about whatever they want! In 24 years of RPF I never ingested a single drop of krill oil, cod liver oil nor any oil and I don’t care about oils. Either we can call our diet “paleo” and therefore just like our ancestors of the paleolithic era we don’t drink oils nor milk – or we do and our diet isn’t paleo.
So did paleos who were not able to "get hold of really high quality raw foods all the time" build ships to go hundreds or thousands of miles out into the oil to find krills. LOL Were these same paleos the ones who couldn't fashion a bowl. C'mon give everyone a break.
Paleo hominids “build ships to go hundreds or thousands of miles out into the oil to find krills.” ??? Hugh… were there seas of oil on which pithecanthropus and such sailed on ships?
???
I doubt hunters carried with them a bowl to collect the milk from the breastfeeding females they killed, even that I could concede that some were perhaps able to fashion such a bowl.
Lots of people happily consume dairy and lots of people can't consume dairy. End of discussion.
Lots of people fare well on fried potatoes, grilled grain-fed-beef, pastry, chocolate, beer and coffee.
I love it and am quite capable of stopping consuming it in a heartbeat with none of your silly horrible results. My teeth aren't falling out of my head. Same goes with the juicing of veges nonsense. I drink juice daily and have not passed onto the other world. Some can some can't.
See my above answer.
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I could find one video I saw, which is nothing to do with drinking milk, but the guy is field-dressing a deer and cuts through the breast for it all to spill out... It's on youtube. If he wanted to drink it he easily could have, there was loads of it.
Is it the one you posted here?
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/off-topic/what-are-you-listening-to/msg52713/#msg52713
It seems not, but at least we know that you know how to post a video here, so please...
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Prefrozen meat is not ideal but is still fine to eat. Just do not thaw it and then refreeze it again and again.
I thawed and then refroze the meat many times and everything was all right.
It's IMO very paleo, as some carcass could have frozen during the cold night and then thawed during a day and so on.
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....so many RVAFers have problems with raw dairy, judging from reports all over the Web....
Yeah but reports over the web can only be taken with a grain of salt...how many false reports are there from vegans and fruitarians who are doing "so well" on their diets? You never know if its just on their heads or not. For example paleo dieters shun anything that was unavailable to paleo ancestors, so I don't know if a lot of them shun dairy because its all in their head. I am not saying that thats the truth but it could be, I always look at things that way.
It could be your ability to eat dairy is based on your genetics. I have read that people that developed to be able to eat lots of dairy are descended from ancestors who had very little sunlight and vitamin D, so they drank lots of milk and it helped them with the vit. D and calcium issues.
In Northern Europe it was particularly hard for our ancestors to get enough sunlight. There is a good chance we today don't have enough sunlight either particularly in the winter and fall.
In lieu of having vitamin D from sun, these people used the Lactose in milk which aided them in calcium uptake. This gave Northern Europeans stronger bones, and had a positive effect on their health, so they kept drinking it.
As for getting milk from a wild animal without container, yeah it would probably start spilling out, thats why you'd have to shove your face right in there...When you see lions eat they tear into the lower guts portion first, often while the animal is still alive, it is possible to ingest some milk that way just like some blood would spill and some would be ingested.
Yes... any link ?
Iguana, if people actually do that, and I have read a couple of accounts on forums, I doubt they would post it on youtube. Its a very bloody and messy thing and they would get all sorts of negative feedback.
I thawed and then refroze the meat many times and everything was all right.
It's IMO very paleo, as some carcass could have frozen during the cold night and then thawed during a day and so on.
I ate fresh heart (well it was slightly aged but never frozen) and it was pretty good.
Then I tried frozen heart and honestly there was a big difference, I even threw part of it out.
I can definitely tell that freezing some parts of the animal has a big effect on quality, I have sensitive taste so a lot of times I can sense when meat was frozen.
Cats fed raw meat that was pre-frozen MUST have extra vitamins added to it, there is a reason for that.
I know that in paleo times carcasses got frozen in the winter and were eaten, so what, they did it because they had no choice, I however have a choice. Like I said in some previous post, just because paleo people did some things and some things they didn't do does NOT mean that everything they did was PERFECT! They had no choice!
I am all for following a paleo style diet, but I am not against the fact that SOME modern ways of doing thing ARE more beneficial and are not always a bad thing, this is the reason why we have a computer on which we can use this forum, and the reason we have krill oil to supplement us if we want.
Everything should be thought about subjectively, if we are going to judge everything then I shall also judge our early ancestors without issue.
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Yes... any link ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEYw6qtiJZY
3:15, the guy cuts through the milk sack, milk comes out... I don't get what's so hard for you to understand about this... How could you cut through every part of the animal, get the meat, get the brain... and you couldn't cut through the milk sack??
I don't understand it Yuli... Iguana doesn't believe it's possible to even get at the milk.. I don't know what he is thinking.
The guy could've even cut out the milk sack if he wanted to, cut a little slit and drank from it... Seriously what don't you understand??
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@miles
Thanks for finding a link, wow...I saw the milk gushing out, why didn't he drink it, ha ha! He could have either let it drip into his hand or even cut it carefully and drank straight from it. Of course its possible, you don't even need to know much to see that its doable, there is a milk sac, and it contains milk, enough said lol
And like I was saying, many predators rip at the lower guts, where the milk sac is, and start eating that part while the animal is still alive.
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Everything should be thought about subjectively, if we are going to judge everything then I shall also judge our early ancestors without issue.
That's very true, dear Yuli :)
But there is very little loss of vitamins during a freezing of meat.
I asked one doctor about that issue and he confirmed it. But the aging properties of fresh meat are much better than a prefrozen one.
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3:15, the guy cuts through the milk sack, milk comes out... I don't get what's so hard for you to understand about this... How could you cut through every part of the animal, get the meat, get the brain... and you couldn't cut through the milk sack??
I don't understand it Yuli... Iguana doesn't believe it's possible to even get at the milk.. I don't know what he is thinking.
The guy could've even cut out the milk sack if he wanted to, cut a little slit and drank from it... Seriously what don't you understand??
OK, thanks you got it. I wanted to see it and I saw it.
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Yeah but reports over the web can only be taken with a grain of salt...how many false reports are there from vegans and fruitarians who are doing "so well" on their diets? You never know if its just on their heads or not. For example paleo dieters shun anything that was unavailable to paleo ancestors, so I don't know if a lot of them shun dairy because its all in their head. I am not saying that thats the truth but it could be, I always look at things that way.
It could be your ability to eat dairy is based on your genetics. I have read that people that developed to be able to eat lots of dairy are descended from ancestors who had very little sunlight and vitamin D, so they drank lots of milk and it helped them with the vit. D and calcium issues.
In Northern Europe it was particularly hard for our ancestors to get enough sunlight. There is a good chance we today don't have enough sunlight either particularly in the winter and fall.
In lieu of having vitamin D from sun, these people used the Lactose in milk which aided them in calcium uptake. This gave Northern Europeans stronger bones, and had a positive effect on their health, so they kept drinking it.
The milk/vitamin D/pale skin/Northern European notion does not work as pale white skin appeared in humans countless millenia before dairy was ever consumed in any quantity(indeed the original apeman is said to have had pale skin under the fur, judging from a past discussion I had with PP) . Plus, hominids survived in Arctic areas well before dairy-cattle-domestication got started.
As regards countless reports online, I should add that for every raw vegan success story online even after 20+ years, there are a 100+ stories where either short-term or long-term raw vegans(and even former raw vegan gurus) admit to having to quit 100 percent raw vegan diets or face further ill-health. So it is easy to see that raw vegan diets do not work, given all the reports.
Same applies to raw dairy reports. Sure there are the fanatics who advocate raw dairy as a sort of wonder-drug and there is also the multitude who report having issues with raw dairy. However, when one looks at the reports of many raw-dairy advocates, one finds that a large proportion of those admit to experiencing very unpleasant, so-called "detoxes" after they consumed a sizeable amount of raw dairy, but not after any other raw foods. This is a pretty clear indication that these people actually had some form of food-intolerance/allergy towards raw dairy but were in denial. If you join the closed Primal Diet yahoo group you will find numerous examples thereof, with people actually proud of the intense pain they go through regularly with these so-called "detoxes".
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well i think miles just definitively proved that small amounts of milk are indeed 'paleo'. kudos.
and fyi, i don't drink milk, but you would be crazy not to if you shot that deer and found milk inside. it's common sense
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In that way, small occasional amounts of grilled meat, tubers or anything are also lower paleolithic since it could sometimes be found after a volcanic eruption or a natural forest fire or even on a rock heated by the sun. That’s very likely why we have ways to eliminate abnormal molecules produced by heat.
It could well be the same for milk. Perhaps our hunters ancestors very occasionally drank small amounts of it in such circumstances, but they might as well not have cared at all for that little bit of milk if not attracted by its smell and taste. It could be that they were more attracted by the liver.
Previously to organized hunting of big animals, they had access to carcass leftover by the predators only, so no milk.
I was induced in error by Comby’s report. Thanks to Miles for this video.
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The real problem is the assumption that if other milk from animals was available that we would be adapted to dairy by now. PP previously gave the example of pandas who are still unadapted to eating bamboo even after 2 million years+.
As for our ability to get rid of toxins, all species have that as an innate ability. The trouble is that toxins in cooked foods are too great in number for the body to effectively deal with them(although admittedly caloric restriction and frequent daily exercise does help reduce the toxins somewhat).
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As for our ability to get rid of toxins, all species have that as an innate ability. The trouble is that toxins in cooked foods are too great in number for the body to effectively deal with them(although admittedly caloric restriction and frequent daily exercise does help reduce the toxins somewhat).
Yes, I forgot to say that this ability is adapted to very occasional small amounts only, as could sometimes (but seldom) be found in nature. The process (various illnesses) flares and may become dangerous with the usual standard diet if the intake of cooked food is not stopped.