I've been reading a couple of interesting things today about refined fructose overdose (like in soda pops). Apparently, some propose that high triglycerides can prevent leptin crossing the blood brain barrier, meaning the leptin signals coming from the fat cells to say "stop eating" don't make it to the hypothalamus, so the obese ones keep guzzling soda pops and muching on whatever junk calories are close by, never fulfilling their leptin-controlled appetite.

We're talking superphysiological doses from HFCS in quantities, rather than that coming from a whole fruit - maybe something like apple juice is also problematic with its much more unbalanced fructose:glucose ratio (although a whole apple would not be problematic).

Hence, refinement, just as cooking, is not what reconciles with our true nature.

I agree - it certainly seems to imply that fruit wasn't around most of the time...or maybe those 811ers with the problems had warped blood sugar control system dynamics (from excess PUFAs etc.).

@wodgina: You're RZC, right? Did you do anything special like organ meats every day as well?

No fruit acids for a long time must allow the teeth to completely recover from abuse, along with the constant vitamins.

Did you pat attention to mineralising, or just the minerals from the meat/fat/organs?

Sour mash is at least a good cause for destroying teeth though, unlike girly fruits!

Too right you need a prescription - it's bloody scary ODing...

I believe the emphasis is on ripe fruits, with higher sugar content and lower acid content - you can even taste this difference in vine-ripened tomatoes with their sweetness (although I don't grow/eat nightshades anymore).

If I leave fruits to go softer, I feel much less reaction in the mouth with the sodium bicarbonate pre-rinse, so it's important to ripen fruits before eating, even if it's not on the vine or whatever.

Also, the sugary fruits are preferable because they actually taste appealing, whereas coconuts (nice) and avocados (high in n-6 fats!) are pretty boring after the first few mouthfuls. Maybe home-blended coconut milk (or coconut cream) is preferable without all that shitty fibre.

Nuts are high in n-6 PUFAs and potentially rancid PUFAs (from unshelled nuts) - PUFAs have been implicated in insulin resistance, so the impact of sugars on the mineral balance is greater, hence calcium excretion.

Nuts are high in phytic acid/phytates, which are not really neutralised that much by soaking in water - hence mineral insufficiency for their energy provision.

Nuts are high in phosphorous, which promotes calcium excretion without the necessary vitamins to keep the minerals in the protein matrix of the skeletal tissue.

As a source of free radicals, the PUFAs in nuts deplete the anti-oxidant vitamin E and increase lipid peroxidation markers.

Maybe nuts are useful on the odd occasion but every day as almond milk or nut butter is a recipe for demineralisation - I speak from experience. ;-(

Hehe, I wasn't necessarily a fruitarian, or for that long - I was eating everything like sprouts, nuts/seeds (often as milks), cold-pressed oils like coconut/cocoa butter, salads etc. I was very lean, but I didn't necessarily look terrible - just very lean and a bit underweight. I had actually been that weight when I was a regular swimmer, so I was half-accustomed to it.

I agree that bone marrow is great (very easy to melt) and very healing. Thankfully, I get 2 long bones every week for nothing, so I have a free marrow treat twice per week. I also grind up bones for minerals/collagen, which I usually combine with the marrow.

I weigh 65kg now, so I feel much better/stronger, but I can bet that now I'm off hi-carbs (bananas are nasty), I'll lose weight again and start to get colder.

I'm pretty sure that my face is widening, especially since eating liver every day, which is consistent with others' experiences. My teeth also seem to have a very slight movement in them sometimes as if they're moving - maybe it's my imagination. It's weird because my teeth feel more fixed in my jaw (more solid bite), yet the tooth dentine/enamel is still very sensitive. I wonder if there's a system of priorities whereby the body favours certain tissues. Also, when I was first eating a lot of organs, my teeth seemed to feel as solid as a rock, but then the effect seemed to diminish as if I'd become accustomed to it, or something turned sour. I suppose that 1 year after a lot of malnourishment is too early to identify. One can only do one's best.

Some of my old cavities are no longer active and the tissue is hard not soft, but the newer ones hurt very often.

I thank my cavities because they originally caused me to pursue the healing arts, for both myself and others/family. I do my best in any given situation! ;-))

I was breast-fed for two years by a very maternal mother, then raised on whatever cheap cuts of meat and eggs were available, as well as sweet teas (British Empire style!) and tinned beans/spaghetti, crispy-crinkly chips in lard that weren't brown and so soft in the middle (I still think my mum's chips were the best!), curries etc.

I spent my youth drinking, smoking and experimenting with psychedelics, street/club drugs (as well as harder stuff at after-parties) etc. but in much more moderation than my crazed cronies. Thankfully, I managed to maintain a good measure of academia and self-teaching, as well as physical training, while also somehow keeping my day job. I was also drumming in a band for a few years, so my life was characterised by late nights and early mornings.

My party lifestyle ended around 4 years ago, when I started researching tooth decay (I was addicted to citrus fruits and OJ!) and stumbled on the work of Weston A. Price. I accepted the healing principles (including raw animal products), although I accidentally read some "green smoothie" recovery anecdotes on raw vegan forums and decided that eating raw organic plants/fruits would be easier than finding/eating raw grass-fed animal produce. I gained some more tooth cavities and the delusion came to an end 2 years later when I decided that my health was declining, even though the black shadows under my eyes had long-disappeared. I weighed 55kg - a shadow of my former curry-munching self.

I've been eating pretty strictly raw paleo for a year now (with great help from my very good contemporaries here) and I can certainly say that it's still a very steep learning curve. I eat liver and heart every day, either frozen-grated (then warmed) or dried (as "pet treats", which I sometimes throw the dog next door, who loves me!), along with a couple of handfuls of tough meats and 4 handfuls of minced/melted bulk fat. I drink raw, local biodynamic/wild honey in warm water with some pollen (through a straw), as well as low-acid fruits and maybe some berries each day - I rinse my mouth with sodium bicarbonate before and after all fruits to neutralise acids.

I have problems with my basal metabolic rate and digestion whenever I restrict carbohydrates, so at this juncture, fruit/honey is welcome. I experimented with cooked tubers, which were very warming/thermogenic, but I found the blood glucose crashes too much, as well as losing more enamel.

I will never eat another nut again - maybe one or two macadamias (low PUFA), but that's it.

One of my objectives now is to find a way to eat collagen-rich raw cartilage to facilitate skin, tooth/bone and systemic repair, as well as its anti-inflammatory effect.

I also entertain the practice of emptying the stones and debris from the biliary system, which I consider to be the most potent healing basis on which everything else rests.

Servus Inger,

Es freut mich Sie kennen zu lernen - schade dass Sie sind verheiratet (hehe, just kidding).

Very nice of you to relate that to me, thanks. I've spent the last couple of years researching tooth healing and it's a very interesting subject with many variables, particularly the ability to uptake fat-soluble vitamins and minerals (bile is important), as well as keeping blood sugar in a tight range. Also, there is the endocrinological perspective of keeping different hormones balanced, maybe with a properly active metabolism/thyroid.

One thing that I learned from WAPF is that collagen is important for bone/teeth healing, which they recommend in the form of bone broths, although of course, that's cooked. I make raw bone meal (labour intensive), although I'm still thinking of a way to raw process cartilage - maybe some kind of garden shredder, I don't know!

PaleoPhil and Lex (maybe others) have sealed/healed their enamel with raw zero-carb, although it's just not possible for me without negative effects, particularly constipation. I eat organ meats and minced fat with chunky meat every day (also, pastured egg yolks and high-vitamin butter oil with a D3 supplement), which has made a slight different, but not much - I think it takes time. I tried bone broths, which made a big difference but they trigger headaches (due to free glutamates in the gelatine).

I've seen most of the blogs about tooth healing, and I respect Stephen's posts because he does acknowledge the potential for "biliary insufficiency". Interestingly, the glycine in collagen is used to conjugate bile, so eating a lot of collagen contributes to bile production.

There are new answers every day...and then more questions!

Bis zum naechsten Mal...

Scotty

On the point of people's ignorance, it's doubtful that there will be a major revolution, whereby people adopt a raw lifestyle - mainly because we're a niche (albeit growing) community in a world where profit/capitalism comes before nature. Sad, but true.

Furthermore, I have access to free fat and bones (that would be destroyed otherwise) while the farmer's wife is now frying in rape seed oil as the bad-sat-fat myth continues to perpetuate...A very strange twist of fate for our mod-cons, hi-tech race.

Now I'd just like to know how to raw-process cartilage for the extra glycine, proline and hydroxyproline - that would be a great raw paleo feat.

@Tyler: I'm glad you agree in that sense - in my opinion, it's important for me to help my parents and grandparents to enjoy happy lives, given my research and their passive interest. I love the spirit of goodsamaritan's www.curemanual.com and I'd like to think I could bring ideal comfort to my extended family. At the moment, I have no family of my own, so I take care of my flesh and blood, who mean a lot to me. Maybe mitigating toxins for those desiring cooked fodder is a worthwhile endeavour, even if they are not projecting a skull and crossbones onto anything without its complementary enzymes and low levels of AGEs/ALEs. There are degrees of everything...I'd like to remind you that we live in a chaotic realm, where nothing is always quite what it seems, black and white etc. May I also assert that humans have been replicating their DNA for many, many generations on cooked food, even though there's a measure of toxicity that's escalating as food production has shifted into the industrial/commercial domain.

@Josh: I've been eating a fairly exclusive raw paleo diet (with very short term side experimentation) since last June, and having still not developed a real taste for everyday fat consumption (in chunky, bulk quantity), as well as maldigestion, I'm inclined to be somewhat pioneering in preparation. Like I said, if I mince the fat beforehand, I find it's better absorbed - rendered from scratchings or not. The raw rendering is a nice way to create a dip for slightly dried meats (in a pemmican stylee) or something to mix with grated frozen heart/liver to create a pseudo-pate. In my opinion, if you struggle to eat something that you know is ideal (that said, I should have the appetite of a wolf for whole organs by now!), you prepare it in a more intelligent way as a means to gradually introduce oneself to the nature of that food - you know, establish a little rapport...For me, chewing chunks of fat that haven't been a bit melted is like chewing on cardboard - that includes cuts from all over the animal, including the creamy marrow. Also, I hate those nasty bone bristles in unmelted marrow.

@alphagruis: Voila! Par example...http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/10/fats-and-ages-pufas-are-even-worse-than.html (Juissance!) This is of course just a blog post commentary on studies, but it makes one wonder about AA oxidation in high meats...Does anyone know how dietary AA is metabolised, given that it's a PUFA?

Thanks for the insight PaleoPhil, which is most appreciated. I noticed that my skin gets much oilier with the raw-rendered fat, so the digestion is probably better. I reckon I'll try to mix back in some of the scratchings and see how my digestion fares, because I'm not sure yet if it's the bulk of the fats and maldigestion that's causing constipation when minimising carbs - or maybe I just wasn't eating enough calories to keep my metabolism running.

I'm still pretty much in the dark about how I should really eat (nothing seems to work for me yet). Too much fruit harms my teeth and too little carbs seems to screw my metabolic rate up. Maybe raw-rendered fat plus separate raw scratchings will be an interim solution for me.

Also, I've begun with the Super K on odd days, which seems to give me blood in my bogies and bloodshot eyes, so I don't think that man-made version is acceptable for me - or maybe one cap per week is already enough.

Good question...it's fat that I mince then melt bain marie-stylee (carefully with stirring and a thermometer) at ~40-45 degrees C.

You can observe the procedure in this journal post: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/anthropomorphistic-intent/msg35102/#msg35102

I find it to be more easily digested when it's raw-rendered out like this, plus there is minimal waste judging by what I've hot-rendered out of the raw scratchings (which I just pass onto my parents as a healthier cooking fat than refined vegetable oil or olive oil in a clear bottle).

Also, I've been considering using the hot-rendered tallow to homemake a very high quality soap, if my parents don't want it. I'm knitting myself a long parka-style cardigan for the winter though, so that's occupying more of my time.

Maybe the raw-rendered fat is good as a topical skin moisturiser as well...