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Messages - Gerson

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Health / Re: How to keep PTH (parathyroid hormone) low
« on: October 26, 2016, 03:56:02 pm »
I don't understand your "everyone here" thinking? Why use consensus to determine what our pre-agricultural ancestors ate?
Since we can't be sure or determine what our ancestors ate, I prefer to get experimental and science data from people who don't get soft tissue calcification eating more animal products here and now. Maybe they have other tools and foods to keep PTH down that I haven't come across yet. I see vitamin D supplementation is mentioned here often.
I would just like to fix a problem without introducing too many possibly hazardous foods, like opioids in dairy. I'm curious to know if someone here has thought about or fixed a similar issue or not.
Thank you for the tips filing bones and fermenting bones etc.
If this bothers you, feel free to eat mostly raw plant food like a few here do.
I could try that, although too much fruit makes me a little less stress tolerant.

Health / Re: How to keep PTH (parathyroid hormone) low
« on: October 25, 2016, 08:18:49 pm »
Hi eveheart, thanks for the reply

I don't think it is an assumption but a fact that most or all animal foods or tissue, except for dairy, has a very high ratio of P (phosphorus) to Ca( calcium), a ratio that stimulates PTH. This goes for muscle meats, as well as for organ meats and the rest of the tissues of the animal except the bones. In fact the highest phosphorus concentration is an organ meat; liver, it has no calcium and lots of P, but its fat soluble vitamins probably help calcium regulation. I don't think everyone here is preparing the bones, which could be a solution. Greens and vegetables in the amounts eaten here don't nearly make a difference to improve the ratio of P to Ca.

Only thing I can think of is fructose, it could be helping the fruit/meat eaters here as fructose inhibits and regulates phophorus absorption, prevents some of its negative effects.

Health / How to keep PTH (parathyroid hormone) low
« on: October 25, 2016, 05:30:23 am »
Hi everyone,

I posted something here a few years ago when I was very sick, but I'm better for the biggest part now.
There's been useful information here, so thanks for that. The problem I have had with eating lots of meats (with or without fats, doesn't make much difference) is that I got soft tissue calcification, my guess is this happens from higher PTH.
My question is how can you keep the parathyroid hormone low when you're eating a lot of muscle meat (phosphorus) and no dairy (calcium).
As phosphorus stimulates PTH and calcium antagonizes that effect. I know magnesium, vitamin D can lower it too, but in the presence of a lot of phosphorus, calcium seems to be needed. So my question is if anyone has researched this from a rawpaleo point of view, I'm interested in any research. I value your opinions and experiences, but I'm looking specifically for science and studies you have come across.

Sources for my claims:
Phosphate stimulates PTH in human tissue, thus causing soft tissue calcification :1,2 , Albright F, Bauer W, Claflin D, Cockrill JR. Studies in parathyroid physiology. III. The effect of phosphate ingestion in clinical hyperparathyroidism. J Clin Invest 1932;11:411-435
CrossRef | Web of Science | Medline

Broadus AE, Magee JS, Mallette LE, et al. A detailed evaluation of oral phosphate therapy in selected patients with primary hyperparathyroidism. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1983;56:953-961

Calcium inhibits PTH secretion in specific and non specific cases in human tissues: Euh.. I'm not allowed to post external links ? (R-568 is a calcium mimic, acts like calcium or on the same receptor)

(There's many more studies, but this information is probably not new to anyone who knows some physiology. However I can provide more studies if anyone would like that.)

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 06, 2014, 02:21:46 am »
So this constipation I have been having lately is more severe than normal and today I've had confirmation that something's off. I have passed clay/semi-liquid pale yellow stool that's floating today... So suddenly my fat digestion is malfunctioning, which has never been a problem ? Something's really off, like I might have catched some kind of virus or something dunno, but my bowels are not moving at all anymore and that's not normal either for me. I'm also more thirsty than normal and I'm constantly burping after I eat something now. The probiotics don't seem to change anything so there must be something else that's going on, does this sound familiar to anyone ?

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 04, 2014, 04:40:35 pm »
Is everything you eat of paleo quality?

 Shellfish from polluted waters, and Salmon from unknown sources, eggs from junk fed chickens, butter of all kinds, even sub quality commercial grass-fed beef, could be an issue.

I recommend being absolutely sure about the quality of the foods you eat, whatever you decide to do.

Also, Raw Bone marrow and organ meats can help one transition into low carb raw paleo.
Yes I check the quality of all the raw foods I buy. I talk to the fishmonger, actually I even walk past the fishery 2 times a year as I live only 60 miles from the sea, the fish and shellfish are excellent quality. My uncle has chickens who are outside all the time where I can get good eggs and the grass-fed beef was also from one of  my uncles cows which never gets fed grain and sleeps in wooden barns, that'd do I guess. The butter is from Ireland, called Kerrygold, but I haven't had butter for a while now, to test if it does any harm I will reintroduce it later. I have been having a really hard time finding a source of bone marrow and organ meats. I live in Belguim and grass-fed animals are not at all common in my surroundings.

Constipation is something frequently happening at the beginning and we suspect it’s due to the body expelling a lot of “garbage” since it receives now much more “suitable materials”, thus creating a kind of “traffic jam” in the intestine. In Europe we can get cassia fistula (from Orkos), which not only helps in this regard, but also apparently facilitates the drainage of toxins. 
Yes I hear this often, however I don't think that ongoing constipation is normal. Also I feel drained and have no energy because of the constipation so I don't believe I can view the constipation as a 'detox' sign.

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 04, 2014, 02:30:43 am »
My strategy has been to Incorporate what my brain "knows" from science and my body (such as blood sugar control) and what my senses "know" from taste and smell.

 I used to have constipation:  seaweed, bitter vegetables chewed for their juices, and magnesium supplement works for me. I have used cooked squash for constipation before, and I think it worked very well, especially since it doesn't cause diarrhea, like some constipation remedies do for me.
I agree that a combination is best. I will try the cooked squash, did you add fat to the squash ?

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 03, 2014, 11:00:01 pm »
Cooked pumpkin miight be a good source of carbs for you.  I find helps loosen stools, it's actually often used for dogs and part of a canine diet(coyotes and wolves..).
Ok thanks I will give pumpkin a try, constipation and bloating actually got pretty bad the last days, it's like my bowels just won't move .. Can't figure out why for now, doing some exercise every day and drinking plenty of water. Interesting fact of the pumpkin being in a canines diet. Hopefully the cooked pumpkin won't feed the wrong bacteria.

Most important, forget everything you think you know about this or that food supposed to be beneficial, don’t eat according to your intellect, don’t eat too much or too often and avoid heated food as the plague! 

Thanks for the input, you know I'd love that, being able to forget everything and just listening to my 'instinct'. But you know those foods you mention and the way of eating etc. that's exactly how I have been starting out eating (some meat and fish plenty of fresh fruit) on raw paleo and how I've ended up asking for help here, so it seems  it is not that simple.

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 03, 2014, 03:10:45 am »
You can always learn to identify wild greens to eat as well, dandelion, mallow and chickweed are pretty easy to find and especially delicious. Depending on where you live it might be less expensive to get greens, meats and fats directly from the farm.  I agree wih everyone, more meats and fats, different carb sources (no fruits no honey) add some seaweed, and is on probiotics/make high meat.  I have even done days where all I ate was a ton of greens and yogurt help repopulate my gut.  I would encourage you to try garden of life brand probiotic called primal defense, it comes in a powdered form and is good deal $$ wise.  I took a heavy dose of it as GS suggested to get rid of an amoeba I got from dirty water a few years ago and it healed me up and kept me ot of the hospital, it's amazing stuff.
Yes dandelion leaves I should definately be able to find, I actually used to love them when i was little a boy mixed in raw eggs, will look for some tomorrow. I have only one more day of beef left and then all I have is some frozen beef .. Then I have to wait a month for a new batch, are there any other options for fat sources ?
I have looked for the primal defense brand and all I have found is the capsule form, the powder form is indeed cheaper but I have to let it get shipped and I have had some bad experiences with the 'arrives in 2 weeks' orders. So I think I'll have to go with the capsules, so expensive.. those probiotics. If you don't recommend fruit or honey and only greens, then what can I get for carbs, because I don't tend to do good on very low carb ?

My experience is that any aftertaste of sugar is an indication that ( for at least my bacterial populations ) i've just fed the wrong bacterias...   For example, try eating a leek leaf and then noticing what happens in the mouth as compared to eating some apple.
I ate some raw vegetables today and I have to say that I did feel better and have a better taste in the mouth afterwards compared to the fruit, I think I'm gonna ditch the fruit but I don't know what I can get for carbs otherwise ? The raw vegetables still constipate me though, hopefully the probiotics will help with that.

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 02, 2014, 09:17:18 pm »
Thanks for the advice guys,

van, as for the vegetables I think I will give that a try but I don't know whether I'll be able to digest raw vegetables very well ... but it may be better than the fruit. I will also ditch the honey for a while. Yes I also think there must be something wrong with gut bacteria and i'm starting to think the general low fiber/ resistant starch intake on this low carb RP diet may be stopping me from rebuilding good gut flora as it wasn't optimal to begin with. I find it odd though that the raw fish or meat is making me bloated as it is suppoed to be easy to digest ...

try 3 to 4 different brands of probiotics. including high meat - make your own.
take a probiotic, overdose 5x to 10x per day for 3 days. 
Then switch to the next brand of probiotic, overdose 5x to 10x per day for 3 days.
Keep switching until you have taken the 4 brands.

When you have made your own high meat, try that too as aajonus vonderplanitz recommended.

let us know. 
okay thanks,  I will try that, any specific best time to take the probiotics or can I just take them with some water or meal whenever I want ?

Health / Re: Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:59:35 am »
what kind of fat do you eat and how much?
Mostly the muscle fat from the beef,  fatty fish, avocado every now and then, egg yolks,  butter occasionally, can't get hold of organs or suet yet unfortunately. Fat is around 50-60% of calories.

Health / Not healing, health problems on raw paleo
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:30:35 am »
Hi everyone,

So I have been doing raw paleo for about 3 months now and although I have noticed some health benefits when I began, I now still experience constipation with sometimes alternating diarrhea days, I am never passing properly formed stools. I think I can best explain myself through a post someone else posted here last year.
The post was by Löwerhenz, named 'Massive health problems, Goodbye raw paleo!' in the Hot topics section. Not all symtoms but a lot seem to be similar and I too tend to feel bloated and have GI tract problems on the diet, I also experience nausea. Here's roughly what I eat:

Raw grass fed beef (maybe twice a week)
Fresh wild salmon (2-3 times a week)
Some other seafood like clams and mussels (about once a week)
Sometimes a little butter when I have no other good fat source (eliminating butter causes no changes)
A little fruit and sometimes some raw honey ( about 20-25% carbs, zero carb was a disaster)
Raw eggs (these cause no problems, already tried eleminating, no change, eggs actually seem to help, can't eat only eggs though...)

Unlike Löwerhenz I am willing to discuss what I can change on my diet though. I am certainly open to suggestions as I'm trying to heal, for now I will try some cooked foods like Löwerhenz did since that worked for him and my problems are pretty similar. Oh unlike the other guy though my meats and fish are generally NEVER FROZEN unless 2 times when I ate some frozen grass fed beef but that was a month ago. So what could be the problem ...

Welcoming Committee / Re: Hi, new here
« on: November 23, 2014, 03:08:23 am »
Thanks for the reply, same to eveheart and GoodSamaritan by the way, I really appreciate all the advice and different viewpoints. As for the egg yolk flushing, it does seem to have a positive effect on my liver and digestion so I think I'll continue those for a while till I don't feel like it's helping anymore.
Welcome! :)

I  am with Eveheart.. no fan of liver flushes here..... I rather eat some dandelion out in the woods... great for liver health :)
Wild herbs are awesome. And for free :)

My advice to you would be

go heavy on seafood......... raw seafood. Oysters are the best.. but any raw fish, better wildcaught, will do You need DHA. really.
Get out of the city as soon as possible. Cities are huge EMF pools today. You are bathing in wifi signals, cellphone radiation... 4 G....Really bad for you. It destroys the signaling in your body. Dehydrates you. Disturbs your sleep.  It is not only the food.
Get early to bed and raise early, get enough sleep, avoid blue light (computer, TV, artificial lights) after sunset.
Be as much outside in the nature as you can.
Keep it on thye cold side, dress less instead of more... keep windows open in the bedroom... cover up just enough to be comfortable.
Get daylight and sunshine... tan nude if you can.. it is amazing for healing anything I would say
Drink lots of good spring or well water. I drink 3-4 liters/day. No tap water!


I have a question regarding the fish. I have, after a lot of looking around, been able to find a good source of fresh ocean caught cod. However,  I noticed that cod has a very low fat content and they won't sell the whole fish, only the meat... should I eat some kind of fat source like butter along with it ? I have also been able to find scallops and mussels, no oysters so far. Can I ask why you suggest the seafood?, just curious :D.
You mentioned keeping it on the cold side, but I kind of already feel cold pretty fast, especially now, there has been no sunshine for a week here, I really hate that, suggestions for keeping warm are always welcome.

Welcoming Committee / Re: Hi, new here
« on: November 22, 2014, 02:16:18 am »
I mention a lot about liver flushing.  Have you tried egg yolk liver flushing?
That's right, you seemed to be the only one.. I have tried it once, but it was a moderate version with 1 egg yolk, a lemon and a tablespoon of oil. It does seem to create some rumbling around the liver, but I don't always have the time to do the enema after 5 hours. Today I have actually tried to just eat about 5-6 raw eggs in the morning over 1 hour and it seems to work equally well but I'm not sure if that will completely clean the liver.

Welcoming Committee / Hi, new here
« on: November 22, 2014, 01:49:20 am »
I'm a 20 year old guy from Belguim. I apologise in advance for any grammar or spelling errors as English is not my first language.
Although I'm young I have already gone through some health challenges and different diets. What follows is a summary of my eating history and some questions.

The diets that harmed my health were: Lots of junk foods when we moved from the country ( I was a young healthy boy there on a Weston price-ish diet) to the city. The junk food phase lasted about 3 years and wrecked my health, espicially liver and bowel related. I noticed my health was detoriating and changed my diet back to a more typical 'healthy diet' with lots of grains and cooked meats but also some local fruit and vegetables. As I was young my health improved somwhat again but was still not great. Then I got into weightlifting for about 4 years. The overconsumption of protein did a lot of damage to my liver and overall health. I decided to try different diets to heal myself. First I did a raw vegan kind of thing with still some hard boiled eggs in it... weird I know, it only lasted 4 months as I could not digest all those raw vegetables. Then I went ayurveda style with lots of cooked grains, vegetables and nuts but no animal products. The ayurveda thing lasted about 2 years and I really damaged my body by the exclusion of animal foods but it went so gradually that I always felt like I could go on.I also never properly digested any meal. Also I did some liver flushing while doing the ayurveda diet and that actually really helped mitigate a lot of the negetaive effects from eating all that cooked food, deficiency problems etc. After 2 years I felt really bad: vit B12 deficiency , tiredness simply from taking the stairs, brain fog, social anxiety and anxiousness in general, constipation and digestion issues, fibromyalgia (which I still had from my overtraining/weightlifting times),...

Now I have been expiremting with raw foods and have found raw eggs to really help in cleansing esp. my liver and helps digestion, raw honey (even in bigger amounts, only temporarily of course) has helped my pancreas and blood sugar stability and raw milk (I'm aware of the calc:mag ratio and the hormones) has helped with my weak bones and joints and makes me more stable.

I have some questions though, I can't seem to find a good source of grass fed animal fat/organ meats. All I can find is butter and avocados, would that do ? My parents won't let me eat raw fat from the bone anyway, I don't blame them though, everyone in Belguim eats a cooked diet I'm the one doing those 'crazy things'. I don't really care what everyone eats though, I feel good on raw foods and have no doubts.
I notice liver flushing is not really mentioned a lot here although nearly everyone coming from a SAD/cooked diet has a somewhat compromised liver. Is this because a raw paleo diet heals the liver also? I'm asking because I want to do some high fat, lower carb phase because for now I feel it would really help me regarding blood sugar stability and mood etc. But for a high fat diet one needs a lot of bile and therefore a clean and well working liver.

Well this was a long post, again I apologise for any unclear sentences. After all, you can't expect a nutrient-deficient kid to write a perfect post. lol

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