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Topics - PaleoPhil

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101
What is this about? It's the first I've heard of this.
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Money & Company
TRACKING THE MARKET AND ECONOMIC TRENDS
THAT SHAPE YOUR FINANCES.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2010/07/raw-milk-raid-rawesome-venice-video-raw-food-.html

".... The U.S. Food and Drug Administration advises that milk, as well as honey and some other grocery products, be pasteurized prior to human consumption.

Pasteurization heats the milk to a specific temperature for a period of time to quash harmful bacteria and other contaminants. Some enzymes are destroyed in the process – a loss that regulators say is crucial to maintain food safety, but one raw-milk advocates say undercuts potential health benefits.

The FDA bans the interstate sale of the stuff. But states have been getting into the raw-milk mix this legislative session with 12 related bills introduced in nine states – Idaho, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont and Wisconsin. ...."

102
Spear-Wielding Chimps Studied
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGxQq7jSA8
National Geographic: Wild Chronicles episode on the behaviors of Fongoli troop of chimpanzees on the Senegal savannah that are similar to how early proto-humans are believed to have behaved.

Chimpanzee tool usage: Hunting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT4WiMrzByg
Fongoli chimpanzee tool usage--fashioning branches into spears to hunt for for "bush babies" within their hiding places. From the National Geographic documentary "Ape Genius".

104
Hot Topics / When Did Cooking Start?
« on: July 14, 2010, 07:58:52 am »
Some radical claims have been made re: cooking and I couldn't find an earlier thread on the topic, so I created a new one.

Re: Fixing narrow palates and cranial deformities
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2010, 03:16:37 AM »

….In essence, it is entirely plausible that humans have at least been eating various potato-like root vegetables and cooking them since the dawn of time.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/insulin-spikes-do-not-cause-insulin-resistance/msg39511/#msg39511 

Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2010, 12:10:35 PM »

As for the archeology and anthropology supporting paleo, consider this: It is entirely plausible that humans have at least been eating various potato-like root vegetables and cooking them around the world since the dawn of time. ....
This same vague quote has appeared at least twice in this forum. What era is "dawn of time" meant to suggest--the first homo sapien sapien, the first homo sapien, the first hominid, anything specific? Where did this claim originate?

Wrangham has made the most radical speculation I've seen so far--that cooking goes back 2 million years--and so far I find his arguments unconvincing and in contradiction of my personal experience.

105
General Discussion / How get more fat with sashimi?
« on: July 13, 2010, 06:30:46 am »
I enjoy my local corner sashimi restaurant, but wish I could get fat with my sashimi. Any sashimi eaters have tips on how to do this?

106
I wonder if all species are somewhat maladapted to the current environment since the earth has warmed substantially in the last 10k years.
Good question.

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With some species such as the panda having the worst of it though lucky enough to find an ecological niche to survive. Perhaps their diet included more meat when it was colder(?)
I wondered about that too, but when I searched for info on their past diet, the books and science articles I found said that giant pandas have always been eating mostly bamboo and that even their predecessor species was eating lots of bamboo before them! However, scientists have gotten the diets of some species very wrong (such as the chimpanzee, which eats significantly more meat and insects than the early vegetarian bias of scientists led them to guess), so I wouldn't be surprised if giant pandas actually eat a bit more non-bamboo foods in the wild than currently believed when the right foods are available. However, the reported reason that giant pandas don't eat much meat is that their ancestor lost a certain gene(s) that resulted in them losing the taste for meat. Interestingly, however, female pandas apparently seek out insects and other forms of meat/fat when they want to get pregnant (which is very rarely mentioned anywhere--perhaps because pandas are thought of as cuddly, friendly "vegetarian" animals and zoos don't want to lose funding by admitting that they sometimes eat yucky insects and evil meats ;) ).

[Soapbox side note I can't resist venting about ;D : My guess is that it's the fat more than the protein of the insects and small animals that the female GPs are after when they want to get pregnant. I cringe every time I hear a naturalist say "It's a good source of protein" when referring to insects and other small animals and fish in the wild. All carnivorous and omnivorous mammals, including hunter-gatherers, seem to preferentially seek out sources of animal FAT more than protein. So the dingbat naturalists and scientists should be saying "It's a good source of FAT," which would of course shock the TV viewers, and thus it isn't likely to become commonplace anytime soon.]

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Other species such as humans clearly took a wrong turn once the megafauna died out and became addicted to grain.
Yes, whatever caused the extinction of most of the megafauna, it was perhaps the biggest catastrophe in human history so far (perhaps second only to the development of large-scale crop agriculture?).

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I wonder if the great cats would be better fed and would not have the teeth issues if the larger game with more fat reserves were around.
Good question. I don't know.

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Isn't it true that the animals like the mammoth (and elephant) are a higher percentage of fat than the other African deer-type species?
That would be my guess.

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Also, I would assume the colder weather would likely necessitate a larger amount of body fat for all animals, especially in the winter.
Perhaps, but the camel also seems to have quite a generous hump of fat and the hippo doesn't seem to be terribly lacking in fat (though Cordain says it's not as fatty as it looks). IIRC, according to one science article I read, generous fat depots seem to be more correlated with the need to store energy than with cold weather. Regardless, there were certainly many much larger animals in the past and my guess is that Stone Agers preferentially selected the fatty parts of mammoths and other large megafauna (along with certain organs) and thus had easy access to much more fat than most humans do today.

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The same thing kind of thinking can be applied to all species since the earth has (I believe) been cooler than it is now for a much higher percentage of the time. Perhaps frugivorous primates did not have the selection of fruit they do now and suffer some mild consequences with some cavities that they would not have been exposed to in the past.
Interesting hypothesis--thanks for sharing it. I'll keep my eyes open for evidence of that. Maybe the earth was more like a Shangri-la in the past than we realize. For example, it is said that colobus monkeys are the favorite food of chimps. There were more monkeys in the past, so maybe chimps ate more of them in the past.

107
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Squat Motivation Thread
« on: June 21, 2010, 08:33:44 am »
Squat Motivation Thread

I think what sidetracked Kurite's thread on squatting was the reference to "Asian" in the title. I'm interested in squatting (both as a form of sitting and as a natural form of exercise) but don't want this thread to focus on discussions of the physical differences (such as leg/torso ratio and muscularity) between Asians and Europeans/Americans, except when discussing how physical limitations can be overcome or the differences between "Asian" (aka "third world") and "Western" style squatting, nor do I wish to get into a negative line of thinking of what we cannot accomplish or how it is not perfectly "proper" as compared to what thin Asians can do. Instead, I'd like this thread to be about what we CAN accomplish and tips, positive info and motivating stuff we can share on the subject. I'm not talking about seeking perfection here, I'm talking about doing the best that we can do. I'm not ignoring individual limitations, I'm trying to take them into account and help people adapt as necessary so as not to get stuck in a rut of focusing on limitations. I'm seeking encouragement and reminders to do squat sitting and exercising--not discouragement--because I don't do it as often as I'd like. Feel free to share tips, images, histories, science info, etc. on squatting. Tangents about other natural forms of sitting and exercising are OK, though the main focus should be on squatting.

Squatting apparently comes naturally to infants:
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The squat is a natural instinct movement that we unlearn as we grow older. Of all the movements we use, the squat is probably the most important to master because of the incredible mobility and strength it offers. Here's an example of a great squat:
(from IF YOU CAN'T SQUAT, YOU WILL DIE EARLY.
http://www.crossfitfredericton.com/fredericton-exercise/2007/8/9/if-you-cant-squat-you-will-die-early.html)

...and to all primates:

One adaptation to enable squat sitting in those who can't get their heels all the way to the ground is to squat on your forefeet with the heels slightly raised, like one of the fellows in this image is doing: . This is called "Western squat," even though the person doing it in this case is Asian.

Here's a Western/Asian squat mix:

Some American weight lifters found they benefited from squat sitting:
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You'll notice that in third-world countries, there will be a lot of situations where people are hanging out or working, and rather than sitting or kneeling down, they squat. They can sit like this comfortably for hours. It seems like a simple thing and can be easily overlooked, but try it some time. The average North American adult can't even get into this position, let alone stay there for any length of time.

...

After my guys started developing their third-world squat technique, they started to notice something: Their performance in the weight room was improving. Deadlifting off the floor with a neutral spine and squatting deep suddenly felt like second nature. Lower back pain diminished. ....

If you couldn't keep your weight off of your toes and barely got your thighs to parallel before you started tipping over backwards, you have a fairly severe degree of immobility.

If you're at this level it'll be challenging, if not impossible, to squat down with your heels on the ground. Your goal here is simply to attain this.

In order to prevent falling backwards, grab onto something sturdy in front of you, like a doorframe or a handrail. While maintaining a neutral spine (sternum high and brace those abs!) grab onto whatever's in front of you and lean back on it, pushing your butt out behind you. ....
(The Third-World Squat by Craig Weller, http://www.tmuscle.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085&cr)

This video gives tips on how to do "the Asian squat," though it also shows Westerners and people of African descent doing it, and thus suggests that people of various backgrounds can do it, but your leg/torso ratio may limit you to
"Western squat": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWTmg4dHiKg&feature=player_embedded. One of the tips they give is to use a wide stance, which I also suggested in another thread. I prefer Asian/third world/traditional squat myself and it's one of my favorite ways of sitting, because it reduces the stress and pain in my back.

Esther Gokhale warns against trying to force a full squat if you can't do it:
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"don't try to force a squat. In most situations you can do the job equally well with a modified squat (on foot flat on the floor, the other on the ball of the foot). The times squatting does help are childbirth and evacuating your bowels. In these situations I recommend using some extra support under your heels - this makes squatting easy on the ankles and back. For other situations like certain squatting Yoga poses, I recommend not going all the way into the pose." http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2008/11/posture-functional-training-and-b-squat.html

Bryle Lane developed a squat lift he called the "B squat" for people who have difficulty squatting with their heels flat: http://www.ironsports.tv/bsquat.html

Another alternative for lifters who have difficulty squatting fully, such as those with short torsos, is to put a board or other lift under the heels, at least to start with: http://www.davedraper.com/squatting-with-raised-heels.html.

"Why Squat?" by Jon of Crossfit, http://www.crossfitleman.ch/exercises/why-squat/

108
The prominent proponent of traditional foods and brilliant blogger, Stephan Guyenet, has mentioned glycation end-products (AGEs) as a potential cause of the link between processed meats and gastric cancer: "Nitrate: a Protective Factor in Leafy Greens
Cancer Link and Food Sources," Thursday, June 10, 2010, http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/nitrate-protective-factor-in-leafy.html. Stephan indicated that he will blog more about it in the future.

Combined with Dr. William Davis' recent comments about AGEs, this is quite a one-two punch in support of recognizing cooking (particularly modern, high-heat cooking in the presence of modern vegetable oils and refined carbs) as a factor in the diseases of civilization like cancer.

Stephan will likely argue that traditional forms of cooking sufficiently reduce the danger from AGEs, but this is still encouraging. I agree that traditional cooking methods tend to be less toxic than modern methods, but I see raw as generally even better when eating foods that don't require cooking to reduce their toxin levels or make them edible.

109
Hot Topics / Dr. William Davis on AGEs
« on: May 11, 2010, 05:11:58 am »
Tyler, you should like this...Dr. William Davis of HeartScanBlog acknowledged the potential importance of AGEs (some emphases are mine):

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Advanced Glycation End-products, or AGEs, have the potential to change our entire conversation about diet.

....

2) Choose and prepare foods with lower AGE content. Food content of AGEs is a major determinant of blood AGE levels. Fats and meats are the primary dietary source of AGEs, particularly if cooked at high temperature (broiling, frying). While this does not mean that meats and fats need to be avoided, it can mean that limiting serving size of meats and fats, while being selective in how they are prepared, are important. This can mean cutting your meats in thinner slices or smaller pieces to permit faster cooking, eating rare when possible (not poultry, of course), avoiding cooking with sauces that contain sugar (which enhances AGE formation). Is this an argument in favor of sashimi?

Minimizing exposure to AGEs, endogenous or exogenous, has the potential to slow the aging process, or at least to lessen the likelihood of many of the phenomena of aging.

AGEing gracefully
Wednesday, May 05, 2010
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/ageing-gracefully.html

110
Primal Diet / Aajonus etc.
« on: April 19, 2010, 12:15:24 am »
Plainfield, VT? Too bad I didn't know about this one. Is there an archive of the interview?

111
"Einstein said he had one idea.

Nassim Taleb says, "Two ideas, you're dead" (thanks to Dave Lull).

Ancestry is one idea.

And it's foundational to the Ancestral Health Symposium and the Ancestral Health Society, so I am excited to announce the new, official Web site:

ancestryfoundation.org

Click around and check it all out. Spread the good news too!"

 --Brent Pottenger, http://epistemocrat.blogspot.com/2010/03/announcing-ancestry-foundation-for.html

112
More evidence that processed carbs and high-heated fats are addictive like crack cocaine, alcohol and tobacco...

The Libertarian Paleo Dieter, Elliot of the My Weekly Crime blog, discusses a new study that adds to the evidence that processed foods, including processed carbs and high-heated fats, are addictive like cocaine:
  "Dieticians Wrong About Fat, Ignore Processed Carbohydrates," Sunday, March 28, 2010, http://myweeklycrime.blogspot.com/2010/03/dieticians-wrong-about-fat-ignore.html "Meanwhile, CNN stupidly ignores the role of sugars in an article titled 'Fatty foods may cause cocaine-like addiction.' .... Eat like our paleo ancestors did, whole foods including fatty meat, fish, vegetables, nuts, and fruit. Skip the packaged stuff."

Here's the study:

Dopamine D2 receptors in addiction-like reward dysfunction and compulsive eating in obese rats
Paul M Johnson & Paul J Kenny
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nn.2519.html
 "The cafeteria diet consisted of bacon, sausage, cheesecake, pound cake, frosting and chocolate...."
[Note: the vast majority of cheesecake, pound cake and frosting these days is made with plant fats like vegetable shortening, so there's a good chance they used plant fats in the study, though they don't specify.]

The combination of high heating, refined carbs and fats is particularly bad, since Advanced Glycation End products are "formed external to the body (exogenously) by heating (e.g., cooking) sugars with fats or proteins." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_glycation_end_product). Plus, Gary Taubes points out that "raising blood sugar will increase the production of what are known technically as reactive oxygen species and [advanced glycation end-products[/i], both of which are potentially toxic." (GCBC, p. 191)

See also:

NEW ZEALAND STUDY:
"Revealed: why some foods are addictive," http://www.smh.com.au/news/lifeandstyle/lifematters/revealed-why-some-foods-are-addictive/2009/01/12/1231608617039.html
"The obesity epidemic: Is glycemic index the key to unlocking a hidden addiction?," http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(08)00305-8/abstract
"Are you a carb addict?," http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1106003/Are-carb-addict.html

NYT: Processed Food Is The Crack Cocaine Of Our Diets (http://www.psfk.com/2007/01/nyt_processed_f.html)

113
Info / News Items / Announcements / ANCESTRAL HEALTH SYMPOSIUM
« on: March 09, 2010, 07:09:41 am »
ANCESTRAL HEALTH SYMPOSIUM: The Human Ecological Niche and Modern Health
 
“The Woodstock of Evolutionary Medicine” - Loren Cordain
 
http://ancestralfitness.org/Ancestral_Health/The_Human_Ecological_Niche_and_Modern_Health.html


This looks super cool. The list of prospective attendees is impressive. We need a representative from the raw Paleo community there to try to put to rest some of the misconceptions about us and our WOE. I nominate Lex, since he lives in California and he is brilliant and a world-famous voluntary ancestral diet guinea pig. I'll be disappointed if he wasn't already invited, as he deserves to be.

114
Circumcision to become mandatory in the United States?
August 24, 12:58 PMLegal News ExaminerWilliam Pfeifer, Jr.
http://www.examiner.com/x-16813-Legal-News-Examiner~y2009m8d24-Circumcision-to-become-mandatory-in-the-United-States


Tyler, hope you've recovered enough to handle that news. If what you say about it being illegal in Europe is accurate, then it's pretty bizarre that the US is probably going to take the opposite tact. If it passes and I were a parent-to-be I would sue and take it to the Supreme Court. That doesn't seem constitutional.

115
...and ignore the research related to the hygiene hypothesis showing that good bacteria and parasites counteract bad bacteria and actually cure Crohn's disease without having to take any medications.

Gut bacteria and disease may be linked
SHENZHEN, China
Thu Mar 4, 2010 10:48am ESTSHENZHEN, China (Reuters) - Some of the hundreds of bacteria found in the digestive systems of humans may be linked to specific diseases like cancer, diabetes and obesity, an international team of scientists said in a paper on Thursday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62244320100304

"Apart from helping you digest, these bacteria may also play a very important role in ... diseases like Crohn's disease, cancer, obesity,"
Wang, executive director of the Beijing Genomics Institute, said in an interview with Reuters.

"If you just tackle these bacteria, it is easier than treating the human body itself. If you find that a certain bug is responsible for a certain disease and you kill it, then you kill the disease," Wang said.

116
Looks like it might become even more difficult for businesses to sell raw or lightly cooked products.

<<Cost of food-borne illnesses is deemed much higher than earlier estimates
A report sponsored by the Produce Safety Project at Georgetown University puts the health-related price tag at $152 billion a year. That's more than four times an earlier USDA estimate
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-food-safety3-2010mar03,0,411644.story

The report is aimed at pressuring Congress to pass more stringent food safety legislation by making the case that such oversight is a matter of national economic well-being as well as public health, according to backers of the report.
 
A food safety bill that would increase inspections, fund research and force the industry to beef up its record-keeping cleared the House of Representatives last summer. ...
 
Industry research shows that most illnesses are caused by consumer mishandling of produce, so the public shouldn't expect food safety legislation to be a panacea, said Ray Gilmer, spokesman for United Fresh Produce Assn., a Washington, D.C.-based trade group. ....>>

117
Hot Topics / Why the shift away from veganism in the raw world?
« on: March 02, 2010, 02:57:36 am »
Looks like other folks have noticed this too...

Why the shift away from veganism in the raw world?
January 26, 2010
http://fresh-network.typepad.com/fresh_network_blog/2010/01/the-rise-of-raw-but-not-vegan.html

Is 100% raw vegan our optimal diet?
February 12, 2010
http://fresh-network.typepad.com/fresh_network_blog/2010/02/is-100-raw-vegan-optimal-for-everyone.html?cid=6a00d83453cfa669e20120a8b682d1970b

118
General Discussion / Who bolts their meat?
« on: March 01, 2010, 12:06:22 pm »
I used Tyler's past description of how he eats meat as the definition of bolting, not knowing much about it.

Does Aajonus bolt his meat?

119
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideLifestyle.htm?f=2010/february/17/lifestyle4.isx&d=2010/february/17
A note after the article states: "The Daily 10 is neither endorsing nor criticizing the paleo diet. This article is for information purposes only." I'll let you, the readers, decide whether it in the net endorses or criticizes the Paleo diet or is unbiased.

120
Hot Topics / Canadian Pemmican
« on: February 09, 2010, 10:21:53 am »
I found this that might be of interest to Canadian pemmican eaters:

"For the Canadian pemmican lovers, there is a website I found recently that sells pemmican based out of Toronto Ontario ( he said they'll be moving to St. Catharines in a few months). It's called Canawa. I can post a link if anybody wants, but a google search for the name works.

 I e-mailed the company asking for more details. Ken explained that it is made very dry, with no preservatives, so there shouldn't be problems with mold. He does not use suet though. It is muscle fat, so it is quite soft at room temperature. The meat may be dried at too high a temperature, as he stated it surpassed gov't standards to ensure safety.

  The website also claims to make their product from grass fed beef. I haven't ordered any because I make my own, but for those that don't have the time, it looks like the real thing, and it's a reasonable price. $20 for 350gr. ( about 12 oz. ) I don't have any affiliation with this company, and I don't know anyone who has ordered through them. He can only ship within Canada at this point."

121
Rep. Dennis Kucinich: I Order You to Eat Vegan Brownies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfIkay4PMhw&feature=player_embedded


Oh, oh! :)

122
General Discussion / Rapid Evolution Counterargument Against RPD?
« on: February 05, 2010, 11:46:32 am »
You know when the food companies get wind of the concept of ancestral/Paleo diets they're going to spend millions trying to counter the concept. I'm guessing that rapid evolution may end up being one of their major counterpoints (after the nasty, brutish and short, aka lifespan, argument and other common points). They'll probably fund scientists to argue that people have adapted to agrarian foods. Here's the sort of thing they may point to:

"The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution."
Posted on: January 26, 2009 8:53 AM, by Razib Khan
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2009/01/the_10000_year_explosion_how_c.php

123
Info / News Items / Announcements / Paleo dude on the Colbert Report
« on: February 05, 2010, 11:28:57 am »
More publicity resulting from the NYT article:

John Durant of Hunter-Gatherer.com Touts Caveman Diet on The Colbert Report http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/archives/2010/02/john_durant_of.php

Colbert was surprisingly gentle with Durant, though he of course did poke fun at his lifestyle.

124
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / De Vany vs. Graham
« on: January 29, 2010, 10:38:24 am »
Which of these two would you rather look like, and can you guess their ages at the time of these photos?

Doug Graham:
Aug 2009 Sept 2009

Art De Vany:

125
The phenomenon of color blindness was brought up in another thread and it's got me thinking. Is it just coincidence that I seem to do best on a carnivorous diet and am color blind (a strong protanopia version), or is there a relationship of some sort? Does anyone have any thoughts to add beyond those discussed in the other thread? Any other colorblind people here? What sort of diet do you find you do best on?

The discussion started when RawZi proposed two fascinating alternative hypotheses at http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/welcoming-commitee/i-just-thought-i%27d-say-hello/msg25821/#msg25821: "All the guys who are colorblind, are they possibly a mutation to be obligate carnivore?  Or maybe we all were colorblind, but developed colorsight at a time it made sense to eat fruit?"

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