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Messages - PaleoPhil

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Journals / Re: Lex's Journal
« on: September 26, 2016, 07:46:52 am »
Yup, I didn't expect you to want to change anything. Just letting you know that I have also seen price increases in meats and did feel some of your economic pain for a while, :) especially early on when I was eating more meats. Looks like the increases haven't been bad for you, luckily.

Journals / Re: Lex's Journal
« on: September 26, 2016, 06:56:09 am »
Good to hear that you're doing well, Lex. Thanks for the update.

Beef (and other meat and fish) prices have risen quite a bit in my local area in recent years, and organ meats are less abundant. Luckily I had been experimenting and found various plant foods that I handle rather well, so the impact was minor for me.

Hot Topics / Re: Alcohol may be palaeo after all
« on: June 27, 2016, 06:11:44 am »
Here are some past threads on the topic:'drunken-monkey-hypothesis'-did-humans-first-use-grains-for-fermented-beverages/

And there is an interesting comment from a Dr. Garth Cambray about one of the oldest alcoholic beverages (mead), which predates humankind (as do fermented saps and nectars, mentioned in the article you shared) here:

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Vice article featuring Me
« on: June 09, 2016, 07:24:44 am »
If you think that mainstream nutritionists, dieticians, doctors and the like will be convinced you are dreaming.And most ordinary people will fail to be convinced of this sort of diet. This diet really only appeals either to eccentrics or those who are desperate and have tried almost everything else and failed. About the only thing that would work a little bit  is if some celebrity like Trump or Sanders or Clinton were to adopt this diet.
You're essentially correct, of course.

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Vice article featuring Me
« on: June 09, 2016, 07:21:07 am »
Congrats, Sabertooth. Are you still also eating the occasional Artisana coconut butter or coconut? I never developed a taste for the coconut butter and ended up throwing the remainder out. :(

Peter Frost posited that the development of larger brains at higher Eurasian latitudes might have been triggered by increased cognitive demands and increased need for specialization:

Unfortunately, not much research is done on brain size and intelligence among past and present population groups because of moronic political correctness.  l)

Diet is still an interesting question, regarding what foods best fill the needs of the larger brains, and even if Frost's ideas are correct, it wouldn't necessarily rule out dietary triggering factors in other regions like Africa.

Good to hear, pinktruffle. Good luck.

LC gurus tell us to check our blood glucose, but they don't tell us about some other health markers, signs and symptoms that some LCers have been sharing suboptimal reports on, such as one or more of high anion gap (usually with a low CO2 component, as measured via serum bicarbonate), elevated BUN, very acidic urine, low body temperature (with a common early sign being cold hands or feet), low pulse, low WBC count, poor dream recall, waking during the night, muscle twitches, cramps or tetany, chronic constipation or IBS, reduced athletic/work performance (especially with strenuous burst-like tasks like sprinting), skin rashes, sniffles that don't go away, poor carb tolerance, new or worsening food intolerances, IgG or IgM immunoglobulin deficiency, positive Antinuclear Antibodies (ANA), hypocomplementemia, .... You don't have to have all these signs for there to be a problem.

Disturbingly, metabolic acidosis tends to be asymptomatic ( and you don't have to have diabetes to have it (some LC proponents assumed that because if there is no diabetes that they can thus just dismiss subpar anion gap numbers, without giving a reason why beyond confirmation bias).

LC gurus tend to focus on measures that LCers do best on, thus creating self-fulfilling prophecies. For example, when it comes to lipid panels, they tend to suggest that all you need to worry about is that your HDL is relatively high and that with triglycerides, "lower is better." They don't warn us that triglycerides can go too low and that extremely elevated LDL can be a sign of other problems. Just as cholesterol performs necessary functions in the body, so too do triglycerides. Both have been excessively demonized.

Just one thing, I as a GM, may no longer be RVLC but this has nothing to do with my health. In social settings, nowadays,  I find it impossible to avoid eating some level of carbs as the alternatives are even worse. I do therefore want to make it clear that RVLC is perfectly healthy - I did it for many years in the past and did fine on it.
So theoretically healthy but practically "impossible"?

In recent years I've seen more and more VLCers report problems and witnessed a dramatic dropoff of interest in VLC. As just one small example, I think Cheri recently shared that none of the current moderators are low carb.

I see resistant starch as probably one piece of a much larger puzzle (of which energy dissipation appears to be a huge factor) and maybe a potential tool to help some people improve their tolerance of whole carby foods. Serious intolerance of carbs is not a natural human state, so it's probably diagnostic of underlying problems in most cases.

The use of raw powdered sources of RS is relatively new, so I advised caution and my own goal is to try to get as much RS and other prebiotics from whole food sources as possible (which inevitably means eating more carbs than in my VLC past) and that I can handle relatively well (which involves a balancing act). There are some reported potential problems from overdoing it on resistant starch, as with anything, such as in what I shared here:

Raw potato starch is the most popular concentrated source of resistant starch, because it's cheap, convenient and simple, and thus it got most of the attention, especially in the early days of RS exploration, and I tried it for a while with some interesting benefits, but I'm not much of a fan of commercial brands, as I suspect they may contain large-particle starch, which raises the spectre of the persorption issue that Ray Peat discussed years ago It may be possible to get around that issue by using only other sources of RS or making one's own potato starch from small, young potatoes which presumably have mostly relatively small starch particles. Perhaps using small-particle sources of resistant starch is a sort of win-win solution, though much more research is needed.

As I often say, don't do something just because I or another forum member or gurus do it. Research, investigate and find what works best for you. Good luck!

All dates get pushed back as older evidence is found. It's highly unlikely that the first evidence found would be the absolute oldest. If the media wanted to be at all accurate, instead of saying "arrived 6000 years earlier," they would say "at least 6000 years earlier" and such.

General Discussion / Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« on: November 06, 2015, 12:08:41 pm »
Thanks. I should also note that I don't yet have access to the full study. So it could turn out to be bogus.

It's perfectly understandable to not want to experiment if something is working great for you and my posts are not meant to encourage people to experiment so much as to question and not assume that various gurus are right about everything.

General Discussion / Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« on: November 06, 2015, 10:39:44 am »
Sure, and like I've said all along, my goal is to find an approach in which I eventually don't need any supplements or foodlements, if possible. For me they are never themselves an end goal--ideally just temporary measures and maybe even a stepping stone to not needing any. Nonetheless, caution and skepticism are generally in order with new substances.

One of the things that helped me question VLC and vegan diets was seeing so many promoters of these diets say things along the lines of "Don't worry about ____ symptom" (like muscle cramps/twitches/tetany for VLCers and B12 deficiency in vegans), just take _____ supplement (ex: magnesium/electrolytes and iodine for VLCers and B12 for vegans)." If the diets are so great, why do so many veterans of the diets need high dose supplements?

In this case, it doesn't seem likely that I'm one of the 10% with the mutation (but I'm not going to assume that), and even whole foods could be an issue for those who have it, not just supplements or foodlements. Maybe a certain form of Specific Carbohydrate Diet or Peaty diet that doesn't generate a lot of SCFAs might make sense for them? It will be interesting to see analysis of this study by other scientists.

It's interesting that one of the SCFAs cited by the study authors as potentially problematic for people lacking functioning TLR5's is acetic acid, which some LC advocates have been recommending as an alternative--via vinegar consumption--to foods containing resistant starch.

General Discussion / Re: Fantastic Health Benefits of Butyrate
« on: November 05, 2015, 08:14:50 pm »
A concerning mouse study that suggests that too much SCFAs could lead to liver damage in some with "a genetic mutation in TLR5, resulting in a complete lack of its function." The authors "envision that our studies would drive the field towards 'personalized' cautioned dietary intake of plant-derived fiber in immunocompromised individuals." If there's a possibility of relevance for humans, then it would at least suggest some caution when considering things like high-dose intake of SCFA-generating prebiotics such as via prebiotic powders (ex: potato starch, inulin powder, etc.), which I already thought Satya was right to caution about. What works for one might be harmful for another. I've been trying to get as much as I can of what I need from whole foods and foods that benefit mitochondria and bioenergetics (the energy dissipation process). Could it be that even whole foods might contain too much prebiotic for people without this gene mutation? I don't know. It will be interesting to see analysis of this.

Chris Kresser (@chriskresser)
11/4/15, 9:41 PM
New study confirms connection between gut bacteria and obesity: #obesity #guthealth #microbiome

Stephan Guyenet, PhD ?@whsource  9h9 hours ago
@chriskresser Wow, that finding is unexpected.  I'll have to take a closer look.

Gut bacteria could be blamed for obesity, diabetes
Date: October 29, 2015

Nice pun Cheri ;D

I remember Tyler claiming years ago that vegetarians live longer than avg. IIRC, when I looked into it, there were studies that supported Tyler's claim. Granted, people who call themselves vegetarian were also found to eat more fish than avg. lol

Good luck with the new blog, Eric. I don't have an active blog, just an old inactive one.

In addition to adding cooked animal foods like fish and eggs, it looks like that blogger also added cooked plant foods like quinoa, sweet potato, tempeh, tofu, ... basically shifting in the opposite direction, and she now thinks that her raw diet was "orthorexic" and claims her health improved dramatically with the cooked foods she added to her raw diet. Reminds me of another semi-famous bleach-blonde ex-raw vegan, Freelee, who also claims to be doing well after adding cooked plant foods to her diet. What are your thoughts?

Off Topic / Re: What are you listening to?
« on: November 04, 2015, 09:12:03 am »
This is another goodie by Yat-Kha. It's also relevant to this forum, as it warns against the way the hypermodern world is turning many into mankurts (basically zombie slaves):

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: November 04, 2015, 08:50:58 am »
Humans to our credit are adaptivores..... while the pandas, lower primates, and a multitude of other species seem to change very little and very slowly there seems to be a much higher aptitude for adaptation in humans (an adaptitude)
Well put, Sabertooth!

Aronia berries are not astringent and bitter, I have 4 bushes in my own yard. They are somewhat sweet and nice tasting, perhaps a little sour.
The ones in my fridge are astringent and slightly bitter, and also mildly sweet, and result in some mild dryness in my mouth after eating them. It's probably partly due to the fact that I only started eating them this year, plus I'll bet there wasn't a frost before they were picked. It was explained in these articles:

<<The name "chokeberry" comes from the astringency of the fruits, which create a sensation making one's mouth pucker.>>

<<Aronia berries have a distinctive, pleasant flavor. Astringency is the sensation that most people notice first. They will make your mouth pucker. This dry mouth feeling is caused by chemicals known as tannins. Tannins make dry wines dry. Many people like that dry, mouth puckering quality of dry wines and aronia berries. Freezing reduces the astringency of aronia berries.>> "Aronia - A New Crop for Iowa". March 4, 2009.

"The taste perception of aronia berries is also influenced by the age and experience of the person doing the tasting.  For example, younger people usually perceive aronia to be too astringent.  This is a natural, healthy reflex.  Children often spit out astringent and bitter plant parts.  That helps them to avoid eating anything poisonous.  (A large number of naturally astringent and bitter compounds are known to be toxic.)  Only in the course of becoming an adult do people realize that astringency and bitterness do not always indicate foods that are dangerous to eat.  Such foods can even be tasty.  This is also the reason why children usually dislike grapefruit, Brussels sprouts, coffee, and beer but later as adults they may enjoy them. ...  freezing ... reduces the astringency of aronia berries."
I like aronia berries and the clean, fresh feeling they leave in my mouth and the feelings of muscle relaxation and well being that follow consumption.

Aren't rowan berries and Swedish whitebeam berries normally red? Do they eventually turn black or are there black varieties? The berries I have are black. They look like these:

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Liquified Ketogenic Diet
« on: November 04, 2015, 08:30:54 am »
"Ray" reported developing esophageal gastric junction cancer 2 years after starting a ketogenic diet with vitamin D supplements:

Is a keto diet perhaps not a cancer cure-all?

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: November 01, 2015, 08:40:03 am »
Iona, beware that aronia berries are also called chokeberries for a reason--quite astringent and bitter. :P  I see that the polyphenol "values are among the highest measured in plants to date," as I expected.

Paleophil already pointed out, years ago,  a brilliant point, namely that pandas have not changed their diet since they were giant pandas some 5 million years before or so. So, length of time is NOT a sign of dietary adaptation.
Thanks. That's stated more strongly than I intended it. I meant that long periods of consumption do not guarantee optimal adaptation. Plus, humans do seem better adapted to carby plant foods than giant pandas, which is not surprising given the differences in evolutionary history and physiology. You are correct in the sense that we can't assume that we are fully adapted to a food just because we have been eating it for some thousands of years.

Also, Don Matesz sort of turned my thought on its head, using the giant pandas as an example of how even carnivores can adapt to eating nearly only plants by utilizing commensal bacteria. It was an interesting point highlighting the importance of the GI microbiome. BTW, bamboo is another source of resistant starch.  ;D

The only caveat is that the Inuit do indeed seem to be proected against ZC diets with lots of raw in them, due to having extra-large livers.So, perhaps  some ethnic populations can indeed switch quite quickly to different diets, due to survival?
Yes, the harsh Arctic conditions probably forced accelerated evolution among the Inuit, though it would have started earlier than their North American habitation--in Northeast Siberia, where they came to N America from. More physiological differences are being found among the Inuit and Siberians vis a vis Europeans, so emulating Artic peoples' diets may not make a lot of sense for Europeans.

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: November 01, 2015, 01:55:05 am »
Ionna, FWIW, I have found the best tolerated berries for me (to the point of actual benefits) are the more-wild / less-domesticated ones, such as wild Maine blueberries, elderberries and aronia berries. I think Inger mentioned something along these lines too, IIRC. The latter two are a bit bitter or bland, and not very sweet, like many wild berries I have sampled, but I feel good after eating them. I suspect that they counter negative effects of too much lactate in the blood, though it's just a hunch based on how I feel after eating them.

Cheri, My genes are 99% Western European, including some Neanderthal, per 23andme testing. Glucose seems to be one of the most problematic food elements for my system to handle, which may explain why quick-digesting glucose-rich foods have been more of a problem for me than slower-digesting starchy foods (such as from tubers and starchy fruits) and fructose-rich fruits. Diabetes runs in both sides of my family (T1 on one side and T2 on the other), so it's not surprising.

Paleo books, blogs and videos (such as Prof. Cordain's writings and Dr. Lustig's video on fructose) sent me in the wrong direction of focusing on cutting out starch and fructose when glucose was actually much more the issue for me. Paul Jaminet even wrote that rice syrup should be a safe sugar, whereas I found it one of the most damaging foods I've tried (someone told me that he has since become more cautious about rice syrup) and honeys higher in fructose to be the least problematic. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not down on glucose for those who can handle it well and I'm trying to improve my glucose metabolism. Don't know how successful I'll be. I think it has improved some. Healthy people, especially young ones, reportedly have no problem metabolizing glucose, which is thus the optimal situation.

I agree that minerals are helpful, so I've been pleased to see indicators of my mineral levels improve.

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: October 30, 2015, 07:37:34 pm »
I never had an issue with dorothy other than that her posts were somewhat   unnecessarily "over-long".
Yes, I didn't mean to imply that you two did have any issues, if that's how you took it. I just figured you two might end up disagreeing. The actual conflicts turned out to be with others, rather than you, as I recall. Not trying to blame anyone. There were just unfortunate misunderstandings.

General Discussion / Re: Fish
« on: October 30, 2015, 10:57:42 am »
Yes, a small family-owned market.

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: October 29, 2015, 07:22:07 pm »
Well, I don't see how people reporting teeth problem on the AV forum has to do with ATCP being aware that AV is dead or not?

I mean, people can still follow his main guidelines regardless of him being alive or dead.
He wrote "Aajonus's facebook forum." Aajonus's forum, on Facebook, not some separate Internet forum by someone else about Aajonus' guidelines. How would a fan of Aajonus not notice that he had died a while ago and thus doesn't have an active Facebook forum, if he ever had one? Seems more likely a vegetarian-oriented guy that is just parroting what he sees AV fans write. It's not proof of anything, just circumstantial evidence, but it also fits in with the reports from Cheri and Tyler. At any rate it sounds like he would have been happier elsewhere anyway.

So who is the current high carb hero at this forum to try to fill SkinnyDevil's shoes?  :D

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: October 29, 2015, 10:21:23 am »
Many people on Aajonus's facebook forum are reporting terrible teeth problems...
Aha, just noticed this and see that this suggests that this dude was indeed likely a troll, albeit an oddly long-lasting one, as he apparently didn't know that Aajonus is dead, and thus perhaps only pretended to have been a fan of him. What do you think, JeuneKoq?

Primal Diet / Re: AV diet
« on: October 29, 2015, 10:02:49 am »
I actually found that my dental health improved some by adding some dairy food back into my diet, though a particular mineral water seems to have been much more beneficial. I wonder if dairy food was especially helpful in the past for some people who didn't live in areas with mineral-rich water or soil? Just pondering.

Hot Topics / Re: What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD
« on: October 29, 2015, 09:32:48 am »
I explained that I invited Dorothy (and one other chap who posted here a few times, IIRC) here from the forum that SkinnyDevil invited me to, so she was not remotely a troll or ship-sinker and in her private messages to me she was surprised at the hostile reaction she received here after I had pointed out to her that we have pro-dairy subforums, and thus her homemade raw quark and kefir should be acceptable here. It was quite clear in her private communications that she didn't intend any harm whatsoever and was actually trying to be a helpful, constructive contributor. I guess I was wrong about the acceptability here of raw dairy and am to blame for giving her a false impression. :( I figured Tyler would argue a bit with her and I think I warned her about that, but didn't expect nearly the negativity that arose. I think my assurances inadvertently inspired her to discuss dairy here more than she had at the vegan forum.

I actually personally benefited from some info she shared about blood oxygen, which she reported had helped her and her mother, and I learned a few other interesting things from her, despite disagreeing with her on much (after all, I think I was a dairy-free carnivore at the time :P ). So raw quark was not quite the end-all and be-all for her and I've found that I can learn and benefit from people who have different opinions and approaches than my own.

Another fellow (whose handle I unfortunately forget) I invited here from Skinny's forum also did not seem to feel welcome. He didn't do dairy, but he was big on fruits and other plant foods. He occasionally ate raw fish and eggs, IIRC, and he was well liked by many at Skinny's forum, so I figured he would be another good and welcome addition, but he returned to the other forum. I suspect he was scared off by the response to Dorothy, whom he got along well with at the other forum, and some of the anti-carb and anti-plant rhetoric.

Re: ATCP, I already accepted the judgement on him and consider that case closed unless someone care's to come to his defense with new info. I trust your judgment, Eveheart, and don't have inside info to the contrary, so I doubt such info will be forthcoming.

Speaking of SkinnyDevil. Where is he and how is he doing these days? Seems like if he is going to be the model example of this forum's embrace of active plant-positive members that someone should be able to fill me in on this or at least point me to some of his recent comments. I don't read all the threads, so maybe I missed them. It was nice of him to have invited me to that vegan forum despite my carnivory at the time (needless to say, I was quite surprised :) ).


Re: the forum topic, I can't stand the sound of Michael Greger's voice, so I wasn't able to listen to him for long. :P I have heard from others that he's pretty smart, though, so maybe some day I'll check out some of his written stuff.

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