whatever, I still think it's better to put a healthy cooked food eater firstly on fruits and vegeatbles and slowly progress to more and more meats rather than directly putting one on a carnivorous diet. It just makes more sense.

you might be right about that, it is subjective. like i said I don't think my raw veganism was completely a wash. But this will most likely be ones trajectory with RAF, as it makes more sense to people who have tried all other approaches. the other option would be transitioning from a cooked paleo/primal approach, which many find much healthier than raw vegan.

But, the OP was about teeth and your first response was about DR doing well, and the merits of fruit eating, which is what we have been discussing now.

ok, I apologize if my choice of words was confusing

when I said "internal issues and functioning"

I meant, just because I felt good didn't mean my health on a cellular level, and also health of internal organs (kidney, liver etc..) were not suffering in some way.

I dont think it matters how people look, but how they feel.

ok, I think that is pretty dangerous thinking, sure I felt great on fruits up until I didn't feel good on fruits, this seems to be common experience. Does this mean all my internal issues and functioning also went on my 'feel good' ride, definitely not. Either way, the physical principals I touched on holds true, there is a difference between not caring about being thin, and literally being unable to build muscle, regardless of food intake (if one is claiming the foods to be 'perfect' and only requirement for health). Not to mention the actual damage of massive fruit sugar, which is touched on by many vegans as well, having had lots of experience with many fruitarians prior to the recent 811 craze.

I've had manzo bananas at fruit and spice park in south tip of Florida. They are indeed huge but I don't know if they are much more close to the 'original' un-hybridized bananas. From the pic it looks somewhat plantain-like. was it at all starchy?

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Florida avos shipped up north tend to be picked prematurely (and seem to be affected by this much more so than normal fruit) I find them far less edible than hass. but a Florida avo eaten off the ground, ripened in the sun, is like eating a lush mango, only fatty instead of sweet.

I've heard some cali (hass type) avos can get quite big but never seen one myself.

counting from the first two front teeth as # 1, my number #3 tooth in on top and bottom is shaped like a primitive arrowhead, is that good?

My Tanglewood experience
http://rawfoodtalk.com/showpost.php?s=8f940ef0dd4e64206e33fafc7f194e9b&p=285940&postcount=13

Oh man this was quite a piece of entertainment, something about this guys writing style just cracks me up." Loren charges 10 cent for the computer, 50cent to get your clothes washed. "Loren has a small gift shop, he charges double the price of a shop just down the street." I've added my own Dave Chapel voice

Yeah, I've been to some farms that are doing things beyond organic and don't have organic certification.

I agree with organic labeling esp with eggs to be no sign of quality, but in a sense, I would be doing exactly the same with the 'fertile' label which is also from a store (not farm).

also, these eggs I'm thinking of are sold in a market that has no regulations of hormones etc.. like Whole Foods. So while eggs I get from whole foods might be 100% organic grain feed and might not even be free-range, at least I know there is no hormones.

my assumption is mainly that the hens are spending time with the rooster, and therefore probably outside eating some bugs and such as well, but perhaps this is not the case

When I first got into raw (vegan) foods, this had happened not too long ago and my mentor of sorts really tried to hammer home how dangerous these guys were. I ended up eventually following more or less a fruit based approach anyway unfortunately. He would say - of which I agree - that even these guys who have claimed to do all this water fasting, live in the tropics and grow there own foods etc... i.e. done everything RIGHT according to their own rules, there is still something not right about em' how they think/talk/look etc...often coming from more or less good/average health or minor health issues.

I was somewhat impressed with Trader for a time (heres some shots of him looking physically impressive) http://www.vegetarianusa.com/rawenergy/

but I've seen more current pics of him at talks and such and hear from others that he is looking terrible and is always caught sleeping all the time. same goes for Matthew Grace, who wasn't a low fatter but claimed he got his Schwarzenegger type build eating tons of fruit and avocado, and also is not holding up over the years.

Loren might have more tact then graham, and have some ideas that seem sound in comparison to 811 like not eating a million calories a day etc...but unfortunately its likely people will after poor results on 811 go to someone like Lockman, trying more dangerous fasts and limited calorie intake.

at the same time, I guess it is impressive for statistical reasons that people are even alive decades into some of these regimes, but you never know what is really going on. I mean, he isn't exactly exuding health in this video, but I can see him being pretty convincing to someone already convinced that fruit based diets are ideal.

Why would the animal take time to put the toxins in the bone marrow which would be much more essential to health?

I'm certainly no expert on RPD, but most of what I've read over the years suggests that marrow will be more contaminated than muscle meats. I don't think its a conscious choice on the part of the animal, nor would it need to be. For example, humans can have all sorts of issues with toxins or heavy metals in various organs and indeed have bone marrow issues. Is their flesh/muscle tissue also toxic? I'd assume to some degree but far less than fatty tissue or organs, some of which of course are designed to try to filter out some of these substances and cannot. Also as an educated guess, I imagine bone marrow to be something that accumulates over a lifetime, the cells in muscle tissue being more in flux/state of detox.

I've been confused about the fat-labeling as well. I used to be able to acquire suet that was indeed suet from local farms but it was always frozen. I've never seen anything labeled suet in conventional markets like WF, although usually displaying organs (other than perhaps chicken liver or maybe heart) is also quite rare. For people in the US, are you acquiring these directly from farms or do you have relationships with butchers that carry grass-fed? are fats and organs the kind of thing markets like WF separate on site or do all their muscle meats get shipped as it? I think in the past I've asked for various fats only to get blank stares.

It seems the majority of people here object to frozen in most cases but I also see alot of posts from people in the US ordering from sites farms like Slankers or US wellness. I personally had no problems with frozen suet but it wasn't the staple of my diet and thus not consumed in larger enough quantities to determine.

Great article

I've been doing full squats during elimination for years (in times of eating cooked food, this is usually harder even with good leg strength and often use a "stool" which is usually anything I can grab like a trash can)

as for exercise, theres another really great no-weight squat one can do which I think was popularized by Matt Fury called the "Hindu" squat. better to youtube it as its hard to sum up in text, but basically it is sorta like preparing to jump off of something but you keep it going up in down in a circular motion.

I tend to get lazy about doing these, but I try to make up for it when I do something with free weights like biceps or shoulders, I'll go down for a full squat while I'm lowering the weight then lifting the weight when on the the rise close to my waist. not sure if this is something others recommend but works for me.

I don't think you can deem someone healthy on the basis of their looks which can be deceiving (as commented on Bear etc..), the converse I think isn't as absurd -especially in person (but also from photographs) to bring criticism to their ideas. Although also as pointed out sometimes this can be a transition/healing period where people can not look so well, but with long term proponents and "experts" I don't think this is the issue

When people make claims about their diet using the words "ultimate" "diet meant for humans" "healing/detoxing" "most efficient use of fuel" "regenerative" it is perfectly natural for someone to expect that this will manifest physically in a positive way, not necessarily compared to various ideals of beauty but have a visible vitality.

also worth mentioning most people that eat conventional 'healthy' diets that happen to look well usually don't make these claims, and will tend to talk more about "moderation" "exercises" etc...

I can say from working in photo industry that while its very true that just about anything can be done with still photography and that virtually all print and web based media is retouched, it still remains that video can only distort via makeup and lighting. Minus the unlikely budget of Graham or Aajonus for CGI. Granted that webcams will not be the most flattering, but especially something shot outside in the sun is open game for commentary IMO.

If I'm not mistaken, another excuse (or sidenote) often responding to Grahams appearance is his claimed high level of fitness, and success (they claim) of increased fitness with aging athletes. It's fairly ironic that few of his disciples actually can create any muscle definition at all in comparison to his build, which is actually quite tiny in person. Another give away (which on top of pictures as I've said I do think can be a window into their program/success) Is that through his message boards etc.for a time he was just a completely irate intolerable son of a bitch. This seems to have improved (probably pointed out by an underling) and he tends to pull it together during interviews via my next point which is he's known to chomp down on bagles and such. Caught also by an intern at his fasting camps with Subway wrappers in his car. That said I think he does for the most part follow his low fat raw vegan regime, and the fact that being the most successful long term example of his ideas his actual results should have more of an impact on people than they do.

As for Aajonous I've never seen him personally, discounting pics I think he looked like a badass in the Ripley's episode on "high meat" which clearly tried to paint him as a creep. More recently on "The Doctors" I thought he was looking not so well (although for someone in his 60's definitely healthy enough) but perhaps due to the antiseptic and ignorant panel and audience he seemed a bit jittered in presence as well.

Right, I've read enough posts by now to know that raw dairy has not worked well for a number of folks here. I can't say if it was helpful or detrimental for me, but I have a hard time believing if I was just doing organs and other animal fats like suet ( which of both I was getting occasionally) instead of dairy (which  I was consuming in far less amounts then is recommend by AV) that the manic issues would have been avoided for that reason.


to me doing the raw dairy seems to be the most grounded (not saying what is healthiest or ideal for most people) esp integrating into a diet that is not all raw.

but sure, I'm always considering paleo, otherwise I probably wouldn't be here, just stating my experiences and thoughts, not my biases or beliefs