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Messages - KD

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General Discussion / Re: Is it okay to eat re frozen meat
« on: March 22, 2010, 03:32:54 am »
one other Q regarding vaccum sealed frozen stuff.

I think I was told at some point never to wash off meat or fish if they have slime or so forth. Is this true and does this also apply to sealed frozen meats? I've been trying to eat mostly fresh muscle meats and only frozen fats and so forth, but I've had some frozen stew meat and organs which are pretty gooey and dripping. If it is very juicy I just wipe the plate with a paper towel, is this enough?

There was a comment in here about high meats from frozen meats.

It seems like alot of folks are eating frozen meats, and also speak about high meat, so are people finding they can make true high meat from their frozen stuff, or are they just talking about meat that has sat open in the fridge a bit?

edit: also, I have 2 small bell jars that I've been using, but also some glass jars with plastic top that I would also like to use, is the plastic problematic in any way?

General Discussion / Re: What if you just dont like red meat?
« on: March 21, 2010, 11:50:27 pm »
right, but why would looking at or not eating? the skin have anything to do with it if the bird is dumped in boiling water?

General Discussion / Re: What if you just dont like red meat?
« on: March 21, 2010, 11:18:35 pm »
What do you mean about the skin in regards to whether it has been heated or fed grain?


I think if you are getting chickens - unlike meats where this is pretty much impossible- you want to get the whole bird. The pieces for whatever reason don't seem to hold up well in packaging.

I find most Atlantic fishes basically to be survival food in comparison to meat, which is most fishes I can get except for imported tuna and salmon which are tasty treats. Swordfish has an interesting texture but also not the tastiest. Scallops which are one of my fav cooked foods are pretty funky raw for my taste. I saw on TV some folks eating a 'live' lobster sashimi, that looked good.

Hot Topics / Re: Fat from grassfed/corn finished beef - okay?
« on: March 21, 2010, 06:48:13 am »
yeah, I wasn't trying to dispute that, but still don't believe that the grain finished would be closer to the grain-fed 100% factory produced esp in regards to muscle meat.

grain-finished pastured organs I imagine would still be far healthier than factory farmed and still wouldn't be as completely toxic from a few months of grain feeding although they might both be similarly bad for the purposes of building health.

Ironically I think grains are more suited to the types of stomachs of cows then our own, and although humans would be considered to be universally toxic by our definitions, many peoples organs are considered at least healthy enough to transplant etc..

Off Topic / Re: Are you having trouble eating raw meat??
« on: March 21, 2010, 06:28:10 am »
This is my second time around doing RAF. I think the first time I was so deficient in fats and minerals that I found eating mostly meat (technically I started out eating mostly fish and chicken) to be enticing and enjoyable, and eating in an omni/primal style never really felt the need for more variety. Now, and even though I hadn't eaten SAD food in years (three years on raw-vegan with very few periods of simple cooked foods followed by the RAF then followed 6 mo later by clean cooked foods, mostly warrior style eating) I still don't find myself craving foods even when I prepare foods for others, but am honestly struggling with the banality/repetitiveness of how I eat this time around. One difference is I've only allowed myself a handful of fruits in over two months. I imagine eating the largest variety of animal and digestible veg foods is the secret to this.

As for the muscle meat itself I don't have any problems with/can enjoy alot depending on the cut, so I guess this is not at all helpful. Although personally ground is not one of them and find mixing with some egg and/or avocado to be more edible.

I can see how having a animal companion could be helpful, my standards for how I would need to feed one of my own are too high to realize currently as I can hardly afford to feed myself quality food.

Hot Topics / Re: Fat from grassfed/corn finished beef - okay?
« on: March 21, 2010, 06:11:30 am »

There has been some discussion re this with people stating that the nutrient-profile of grain-finished meat is not much different from meat raised on grains throughout life.  Mind you, animals fed on grains in the months prior to slaughter are so force-fed on grains that that's not surprising.

I find this almost impossible to believe in regards to muscle, not fat. If a human was raised 100% on its biological diet (lets say milk from a truly healthy mother followed by RPD or whatever else for its proper biology) and for the last few months of its life ate some kind of macrobiotic diet, based almost entirely in corn, would that person be in the same shape tissue-wise as someone eating a diet of mostly refined grains their entire life?

I can see the reasoning to avoid the fat from such animals, as that would largely be the accumulation of the grain finishing, other than that things like eggs that even when pastured often contain some kind of grain/corn feed are very different in obvious ways from regular organic eggs. I imagine for the same reasons above that although grain-fed organs should probably not be eaten at all, that grain-finished organs would probably be way closer to grass-fed in regards to any degeneration.

General Discussion / Re: Any problems with ground beef?
« on: March 21, 2010, 05:36:08 am »
When people use the term lard here are they always using it to speak of processed lard? the term basically just means pig fat no? I thought that was what people were using.

from wiki:

Lard is pig fat in both its rendered and unrendered forms.
Lard can be obtained from any part of the pig as long as there is a high concentration of fatty tissue. The highest grade of lard, known as leaf lard, is obtained from the "flare" visceral fat deposit surrounding the kidneys and inside the loin.

I've been eating unprocesed leaf lard/pig suet whatever you want to call it. great texture, kinda absent-but-strange taste.


limiting oneself to ground beef or even just beef muscle meat from the same source doesn't seem sound to me as a long term strategy, especially if it isn't out of some kind of necessity. Folks can have very positive results (espcially regarding energy at least) on very limited veg raw diets, for many years, and may continue feeling well for longer even in the presence of other symptoms. These are my personal opinions/observations.

General Discussion / Re: Is it okay to eat re frozen meat
« on: March 21, 2010, 04:20:56 am »
what method are you using to dry? I don't have a dehydrator.

General Discussion / Re: Is it okay to eat re frozen meat
« on: March 21, 2010, 02:43:00 am »
So I've gotten some heavy duty organs (tounge and heart) and wondering how to go about having it last a few weeks. Last time I got liver it was a race to finish the thing (1.5+ lb) within 4-5 days, and not really a big fan of eating that much liver.

Short of some kind of power tool, is there a way to thaw somewhat to cut it it into chunks and keep some frozen? The heart is like 3.6 lb.

Journals / Re: Journalistica
« on: March 19, 2010, 08:08:42 am »
Have you ever thought about dropping all vegetation or limiting it to just a few servings a week? Some people do notice a difference between vvlc and carnivore.

Honestly, my thoughts have been the reverse, esp regarding the hydration, but I'm aware of this phenomena. I dunno, energy wise there is improvement, mostly problems just in the dehydration and trouble sometimes getting enough to eat or assimilating. What were you thinking specifically this would shift?

I'm not really doing any whole vegetable matter at all, a handful of fruits in over 2months and some nuts or sauerkraut here and there.

I think by jerkys people might mean making your own? I know most jerky will have all kinds of addatives, perhaps not from grass fed beef suppliers. I know even health-food store bacon's seem to almost all have sugar in it, which is crazy.

I would call the whole foods maybe now to find out/form a strategy if they do not.

there are three by me, I think all carry grass-fed ground meat, but only one seems to regularly get grass-fed cuts that are affordable anyway. They all seem to carry New Zealand lamb, which is grass-fed at least to some degree.  Then there are wild caught fishes, which they are good at labeling whether they are frozen or not, although the good ones like tuna or salmon are almost always really pricey.

Journals / Re: Journalistica
« on: March 19, 2010, 07:21:34 am »
well, sure there is some truth to that as my body has always been natural thin, and has taken some effort to manipulate my weight and put on muscle. At the same time there is some minimum I need to eat in order to stay stable, and even that - especially this week when not feeling great - takes effort. Last spring on RAF I continued to lose, probably getting down to around 145 or something. And recognize the bulk of the weight and muscle I've put on since this last experiment is toxic, even for the most part I was eating clean cooked foods. I've just gone through this up and down that its frustrating, although as I said somewhere here I think that I'd rather sacrifice my vanity and be thinner or less fit if that meant health and energy.

Energy wise, yeah I've been able to work long hard physical days without any food till evenings and getting up way earlier of course, which is considerable from just a few weeks ago and a huge step from where I was 6 months ago.


Other news I dug into that pastured pork suet. Its much different than the harder more crystalline suet (at least that I have gotten) from beef. This is more creamy - but a little stranger/less enjoyable taste - than muscle meat fat. Sill a littlr sketched by it, but eating butter and muscle meat is not even getting me over the 2000 mark these days and really need a cheaper animal fat source.

another frustrating shopping trip. no grass-fed cuts, so got a more expensive NZ cut than usual as the shanks are starting to make me wretch. I also got some buffalo which tastes great but is almost 3x the expense at $16/lb so just got enough for tonight.

I also had a little cut papaya from WF as an experiment, and I'm also trying to figure out what to do about this dehydration in addition to adding carbs somehow. The weight loss I gather might have to do with the ketosis in some fashion.

Health / Re: Questions on digestion
« on: March 19, 2010, 06:59:13 am »
I eat entirely ground beef, raw, with raw egg yolks, ghee and/ or lard. Very easy to digest and gives me lots of energy.

is there a reason you stick to ground/beef/no organs or other fats? or is its an 'ain't broke don't fix it thing'?

Journals / Re: Journalistica
« on: March 18, 2010, 09:21:01 am »
Well, I seem to be running into the same issues as last time with RAF, mainly weight loss and dehydration. On the latter, I usually do consume alot less water doing the diet, but even when I increasing my water intake: mineral, filtered, lemon water doesn't seem to make much a difference. This has been exacerbated this week by lots of physical activity doing moving work where I having been going long periods without eating. I know in AV world that fats are supposed to be hydrating and eaten often, and other things like tomatoes and cucumbers and juices such which for me are way too expensive to use in such a fashion. I still do a regular 16 oz or so juice in the AM. my lips today are not chapped but are like bright red/inflamed which I think is probably worse?

ever since a week ago when I started doing seafood again and ran into some kind of digestive issues, whether it be detox or something else, I havn't been able to eat very much, and thats starting to get really troubling for me as this same pattern happened last year. I seem to be able to drop weight faster eating animal foods than any other low cal diet if I am not on top of my eating and not gaining unless I'm eating more than I care for. It hard to figure with water weight and any colon back up or whatever but I started at around 165, and with the diet in the original post within 2 weeks I was showing at around 170 and now its down to 160, and it definitely shows visibly.

I actually injured my abdominal muscle on sat after the digestive issues started, and since then still have pain in that area and its hard to tell what is what, I've had some foul smelling gas and occasional other digestive gurgles and such which are very rare for me to have on any diet. Doing the physical lifting the last few days has been a bitch.

My GF and I might plan some sort of trip next week and I have no idea how that could possibly go down, I'm getting really neurotic about this stuff and worried about reversing the progress I'm made re:candida protocol even though my prior diet was pretty limited as was. as far as travel goes.

I was talking to another RAFer about honey and how it gave me symptoms, and he pulled the whole "Candida is there because of the toxicity, it is beneficial" spiel which I'm aware of, but that still doesn't mean one can eat a bunch of sugar that feeds overgrowth. I've had major improvement regarding energy, that adding honey, fruits or cooked starches would seem to put me right back where I was only 10 lbs lighter :/ . So i'm pretty frustrated I suppose.

Journals / Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: March 16, 2010, 10:37:07 am »
I subscribe to the positive thinking camps, but since your symptoms very much mirror my own I'm going to personally weigh in on the physical side. I know my mood has increased drastically and negativity diminished in a period which my energy has tanked, and then shown improvement with raw diet to the point where I am already/finally experiencing more of a 'normal' sense of energy. for awhile it was like below-zero, then I had the energy to work out, but after that felt almost consistently like crap, extremely tired in the eyes esp and feeling like I hadn't slept in days all the time. But I have pretty existential struggles with whether I'm going to continue with raw again this time and other such things

I also attend a support group and know what you mean about the dynamic, and how even if the conversation is depressing it can still be uplifting in the end, especially if you have stuff to share for others. other then that have very little social interaction other then my relationship. One reason for this I now live in a totally different geographical area then most of my friends, but likely if I was feeling better, and def if I was eating "normally" I would have moved back by now. So I can say for sure that for me, rightfully or wrongfully, my diet actually makes me way more introverted then I usually am, and tend to assume people won't understand things and just avoid situations.

I also have the same issue with the clear blood tests/looking healthy thing. My GF for such reasons really has gotten on my case about doing 'extreme' stuff, because of course it seems unnecessary to her. Although she has noticed some recent improvement and trusts my judgment. I havn't taken this step myself, but perhaps you could get more extensive testing for things like candida which do not turn up in blood tests.

I think it makes sense to use whatever technogies to aid your self-esteem and mental stuff while doing the physical work of diet/cleansing. I think there are some that can just tackle the mental stuff with whole sucess, but I've tried that myself and ended up in the same crap place more than a few times.

Hot Topics / Re: Cooked Starches
« on: March 16, 2010, 09:32:20 am »
I think roots are common in some kimchi's

heres one I found quickly

perhaps one could use other roots as well. Carrots and beets for sure.

Journals / Re: Yuri recovery
« on: March 16, 2010, 09:24:13 am »
You proved nothing KD except that people change.

from the time-frame of 6 mo ago, your current dietary practice, and assuming that your raw experimentation came some time after this post, its means that it is pretty clear to all that your theories are composed of bits and pieces of misreading others, as opposed to any significant experiences of your own.

esp. in regards to long term effects raw protein consumption and kidney issues which seems to be your main trick of 'expertise'. based on what weeks of experimentation? I have no personal biases towards RPD being a one sized fits all miracle diet, but I've been on diet forums long enough to tell when people give non-experiential info like its the prophecy, which is tolerable to a point until they try to play expert on individuals trying to get well.  The idea that kidney damage exists within a vacuum of health in raw meat consumption in some individuals and not others is completely absurd. If there is damage, clearly its base is in some pre-existing issue. Whether raw meat and fat is the appropriate cure or exacerbated by such for yourself or Yuri is what is debatable, if done intelligently and with some actual science, or at the very least long-term personal experiences on various approaches.

Journals / Re: my so called journal
« on: March 16, 2010, 05:54:22 am »
heres a few I spotted:

Daniel Lieberman, PhD, Harvard University, Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology

Craig Stanford, PhD, USC, Professor of Anthropology, Director Jane Goodall Research Center

not saying these programs would be best, but the individuals probably would know at least what you are talking about and if it would be plausible to make it work at a University which might not seem as accommodating, or know of more related programs. can't hurt :/

Journals / Re: my so called journal
« on: March 16, 2010, 05:37:36 am »
advice as far as what? other programs? making yourself more attractive to UPenn? I think you are right towards the end about how biology depts. probably work in terms of phiosophy and incentives. Other than position in academia, it might not be the most fruitful career path in terms of $ for yourself and research if that is a deterrent, but I don't think your ideals will prevent you from landing yourself within a program that works for you.

There was a recent post on some Anthropological diet mega-seminar, showing a sign of more acceptance of evolutionary approaches within nutrition in Academia if not medicine.

perhaps there are people featured there you could contact or their respective universities about their experiences with less than popular research.

Journals / Re: Yuri recovery
« on: March 16, 2010, 02:14:08 am »
Its the reverse with anemia, but either way it is irrelevant, because even if his problems are "due to his diet" you nor I are in a position to diagnose his problems.


 I used to do paleo but quit
« on: August 26, 2009, 05:00:40 PM »

hello, just some comments

I went on the paleo diet (i was not overweight 5,11 155lbs) and found it hard sticking to it. My whole point here is that one should eat what one wants to eat ...and i KNOW that people hate being on this diet because they miss all the foods that they ate for most of their life that are the mainstay in multiple cultures/societies (corn,potaotes,dairy,sugar bread.etc).

What i would recommend to people is eat what you want ,your taste buds are an indication of what you need for your body i believe..If you dislike eating salads and eating meat everyday then DONT DO IT.

TRY THIS/HOW ABOUT THIS:...EAT ANY FOODS YOU LIKE BUT JUST EAT ONE MEAL A DAY AND AT NIGHT...along with...INTERMITTENT FASTING/FASTING ...say 2-3 days a week (for people who want to loose weight perhaps or just for those who want a change)

TIP: i believe paleo hunters only really did eat at night/past noon with the fire and meat roasting and 1 meal a day and not at least 3 meals a day like most people do. also, they intermittently fasted (they did not catch game/meat everyday right...)

Just my comments and opinion.

Journals / Re: Yuri recovery
« on: March 16, 2010, 01:44:10 am »
there is a difference between having skepticism and assuming other peoples issues prove your conclusions prior to actually engaging with the particulars of the issue. If you feeling strongly about the points you just brought up, bring them up in general discussions, and don't pretend to troubleshoot other peoples problems. If he said something like "I suspect there is something wrong with my kidneys", chime in with your anecdotes. but he said he was medically tested for pernicious anemia, which has nothing to do with kidney function, or raw meat eating unless one really believes that a 80+% sugar diet is the way to correct such things.

How do I know this, because I've in the past has the same diagnosis after years of raw veganism. Now, raw veganism might not even be the cause, but it is related to b-12 deficiency and other absorption issues such as candida. Are there other protocols other than just eating meat and fat that could resolve this for Yuri? Possibly, for me I did have I think 2 b-12 shots and took pills for awhile and that seemed to give a jump start to the situation that resolved itself (at least medically) with animal foods. I'm still dealing with the fungal aspects, but I think last time I checked my b-12 was fine. Even so, I have issues with myself being able to diagnose or troubleshoot such a problem without at least hearing what he thinks.

Primal Diet / Re: Butter
« on: March 16, 2010, 12:59:46 am »
Well, like many primal/paleo foods, its quite possible that it is still edible in a oxidized state. For me, I find eating butter to be quite a chore to begin with and am thinking about biting the expense and just tossing this half lb or so - as my stomach is very sensitive as is the last few days - and I guess quickly eating the rest I have, which most likely will have the same issue soon enough. In my limited knowledge, I suspect the freezing to be a huge culprit. I suspect it has little to do with the animal, but maybe I should tell the farm about the Tibetans :)

Journals / Re: Yuri recovery
« on: March 16, 2010, 12:46:00 am »
So your blaming all your troubles on your consumption of grain fed meats?

dude, can you not even follow a thread?

you are very quick to push whatever agenda it is that mirrors your limited experience.

maybe ask him what he thinks instead of some kind of know-it-all exclamation.

I don't see why your questions couldn't be asked here


might be additional places for asking people practicing or transitioning to traditional cooked paleo/primal approaches.

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