one other Q regarding vaccum sealed frozen stuff.

I think I was told at some point never to wash off meat or fish if they have slime or so forth. Is this true and does this also apply to sealed frozen meats? I've been trying to eat mostly fresh muscle meats and only frozen fats and so forth, but I've had some frozen stew meat and organs which are pretty gooey and dripping. If it is very juicy I just wipe the plate with a paper towel, is this enough?

right, but why would looking at or not eating? the skin have anything to do with it if the bird is dumped in boiling water?

yeah, I wasn't trying to dispute that, but still don't believe that the grain finished would be closer to the grain-fed 100% factory produced esp in regards to muscle meat.

grain-finished pastured organs I imagine would still be far healthier than factory farmed and still wouldn't be as completely toxic from a few months of grain feeding although they might both be similarly bad for the purposes of building health.

Ironically I think grains are more suited to the types of stomachs of cows then our own, and although humans would be considered to be universally toxic by our definitions, many peoples organs are considered at least healthy enough to transplant etc..

There has been some discussion re this with people stating that the nutrient-profile of grain-finished meat is not much different from meat raised on grains throughout life.  Mind you, animals fed on grains in the months prior to slaughter are so force-fed on grains that that's not surprising.

I find this almost impossible to believe in regards to muscle, not fat. If a human was raised 100% on its biological diet (lets say milk from a truly healthy mother followed by RPD or whatever else for its proper biology) and for the last few months of its life ate some kind of macrobiotic diet, based almost entirely in corn, would that person be in the same shape tissue-wise as someone eating a diet of mostly refined grains their entire life?

I can see the reasoning to avoid the fat from such animals, as that would largely be the accumulation of the grain finishing, other than that things like eggs that even when pastured often contain some kind of grain/corn feed are very different in obvious ways from regular organic eggs. I imagine for the same reasons above that although grain-fed organs should probably not be eaten at all, that grain-finished organs would probably be way closer to grass-fed in regards to any degeneration.

what method are you using to dry? I don't have a dehydrator.

Have you ever thought about dropping all vegetation or limiting it to just a few servings a week? Some people do notice a difference between vvlc and carnivore.

Honestly, my thoughts have been the reverse, esp regarding the hydration, but I'm aware of this phenomena. I dunno, energy wise there is improvement, mostly problems just in the dehydration and trouble sometimes getting enough to eat or assimilating. What were you thinking specifically this would shift?

I'm not really doing any whole vegetable matter at all, a handful of fruits in over 2months and some nuts or sauerkraut here and there.

well, sure there is some truth to that as my body has always been natural thin, and has taken some effort to manipulate my weight and put on muscle. At the same time there is some minimum I need to eat in order to stay stable, and even that - especially this week when not feeling great - takes effort. Last spring on RAF I continued to lose, probably getting down to around 145 or something. And recognize the bulk of the weight and muscle I've put on since this last experiment is toxic, even for the most part I was eating clean cooked foods. I've just gone through this up and down that its frustrating, although as I said somewhere here I think that I'd rather sacrifice my vanity and be thinner or less fit if that meant health and energy.

Energy wise, yeah I've been able to work long hard physical days without any food till evenings and getting up way earlier of course, which is considerable from just a few weeks ago and a huge step from where I was 6 months ago.


----


Other news I dug into that pastured pork suet. Its much different than the harder more crystalline suet (at least that I have gotten) from beef. This is more creamy - but a little stranger/less enjoyable taste - than muscle meat fat. Sill a littlr sketched by it, but eating butter and muscle meat is not even getting me over the 2000 mark these days and really need a cheaper animal fat source.

another frustrating shopping trip. no grass-fed cuts, so got a more expensive NZ cut than usual as the shanks are starting to make me wretch. I also got some buffalo which tastes great but is almost 3x the expense at $16/lb so just got enough for tonight.

I also had a little cut papaya from WF as an experiment, and I'm also trying to figure out what to do about this dehydration in addition to adding carbs somehow. The weight loss I gather might have to do with the ketosis in some fashion.

Well, I seem to be running into the same issues as last time with RAF, mainly weight loss and dehydration. On the latter, I usually do consume alot less water doing the diet, but even when I increasing my water intake: mineral, filtered, lemon water etc...it doesn't seem to make much a difference. This has been exacerbated this week by lots of physical activity doing moving work where I having been going long periods without eating. I know in AV world that fats are supposed to be hydrating and eaten often, and other things like tomatoes and cucumbers and juices such which for me are way too expensive to use in such a fashion. I still do a regular 16 oz or so juice in the AM. my lips today are not chapped but are like bright red/inflamed which I think is probably worse?

ever since a week ago when I started doing seafood again and ran into some kind of digestive issues, whether it be detox or something else, I havn't been able to eat very much, and thats starting to get really troubling for me as this same pattern happened last year. I seem to be able to drop weight faster eating animal foods than any other low cal diet if I am not on top of my eating and not gaining unless I'm eating more than I care for. It hard to figure with water weight and any colon back up or whatever but I started at around 165, and with the diet in the original post within 2 weeks I was showing at around 170 and now its down to 160, and it definitely shows visibly.

I actually injured my abdominal muscle on sat after the digestive issues started, and since then still have pain in that area and its hard to tell what is what, I've had some foul smelling gas and occasional other digestive gurgles and such which are very rare for me to have on any diet. Doing the physical lifting the last few days has been a bitch.

My GF and I might plan some sort of trip next week and I have no idea how that could possibly go down, I'm getting really neurotic about this stuff and worried about reversing the progress I'm made re:candida protocol even though my prior diet was pretty limited as was. as far as travel goes.

I was talking to another RAFer about honey and how it gave me symptoms, and he pulled the whole "Candida is there because of the toxicity, it is beneficial" spiel which I'm aware of, but that still doesn't mean one can eat a bunch of sugar that feeds overgrowth. I've had major improvement regarding energy, that adding honey, fruits or cooked starches would seem to put me right back where I was only 10 lbs lighter :/ . So i'm pretty frustrated I suppose.

I think roots are common in some kimchi's

heres one I found quickly

http://weirdcombinations.com/2009/11/root-vegetable-kimchi/


perhaps one could use other roots as well. Carrots and beets for sure.

heres a few I spotted:

Daniel Lieberman, PhD, Harvard University, Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~skeleton/danlhome.html

Craig Stanford, PhD, USC, Professor of Anthropology, Director Jane Goodall Research Center
http://college.usc.edu/labs/stanford/home/index.cfm

not saying these programs would be best, but the individuals probably would know at least what you are talking about and if it would be plausible to make it work at a University which might not seem as accommodating, or know of more related programs. can't hurt :/

Its the reverse with anemia, but either way it is irrelevant, because even if his problems are "due to his diet" you nor I are in a position to diagnose his problems.

pc701
 I used to do paleo but quit
« on: August 26, 2009, 05:00:40 PM »


hello, just some comments

I went on the paleo diet (i was not overweight 5,11 155lbs) and found it hard sticking to it. My whole point here is that one should eat what one wants to eat ...and i KNOW that people hate being on this diet because they miss all the foods that they ate for most of their life that are the mainstay in multiple cultures/societies (corn,potaotes,dairy,sugar bread.etc).

What i would recommend to people is eat what you want ,your taste buds are an indication of what you need for your body i believe..If you dislike eating salads and eating meat everyday then DONT DO IT.

TRY THIS/HOW ABOUT THIS:...EAT ANY FOODS YOU LIKE BUT JUST EAT ONE MEAL A DAY AND AT NIGHT...along with...INTERMITTENT FASTING/FASTING ...say 2-3 days a week (for people who want to loose weight perhaps or just for those who want a change)

TIP: i believe paleo hunters only really did eat at night/past noon with the fire and meat roasting and 1 meal a day and not at least 3 meals a day like most people do. also, they intermittently fasted (they did not catch game/meat everyday right...)

Just my comments and opinion.

http://cavemanforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=f16f12944b4609a224273ee03a3e724d&topic=1517.0

Well, like many primal/paleo foods, its quite possible that it is still edible in a oxidized state. For me, I find eating butter to be quite a chore to begin with and am thinking about biting the expense and just tossing this half lb or so - as my stomach is very sensitive as is the last few days - and I guess quickly eating the rest I have, which most likely will have the same issue soon enough. In my limited knowledge, I suspect the freezing to be a huge culprit. I suspect it has little to do with the animal, but maybe I should tell the farm about the Tibetans

I don't see why your questions couldn't be asked here

but

http://cavemanforum.com/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/

might be additional places for asking people practicing or transitioning to traditional cooked paleo/primal approaches.