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Messages - Hans89

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Hans' argument is not scientific but psychological. He was doing great on very low carb, and in fact, his body rewarded him by making him sick when he ate junk, i.e. carbs. But he WANTED to be "normal" and eat "normal" people food, which is of course, rubbish. Since he WANTED to eat these "normal" foods that make others look fat, skinny fat and gross, he justified a NEED for carbs. Thus he justified that he NEEDED carbs so that he could tolerate the junk when he ate it. That makes sense. If you want to eat junk and be mediocre, might as well eat that which makes you mediocre. You are, after all, what you eat.  :D

Think about these points:
Vegans feel crappy when they eat meat after abstaining from it for a long time - Is that their body rewarding them by making them sick from eating "junk", i.e. meat? Or maybe they lose the ability to digest wholesome food because they don't eat it for too long?
About fat, skinny fat and gross - look at durianrider... he eats nothing but carbs. Or look at the Kitavans.
About mediocrity - I fail to see how making carbs make anyone mediocre. Care to give an example?

Informative post as always, PaleoPhil.

I believe that the carnivore vs. omnivore discussion is in fact somewhat relevant to the topic, as a diet low in carbs will almost inevitably be a carnivorous one, while one high in carbs will be an omnivorous one. One of the benefits that are attributed to a LC/ZC which is mainly a diet of animal flesh is the lack of insulin spikes. If these insulin spikes do not contribute to the development of diabetis, then that benefit isn't actually one. At the same time, insulin spikes are an argument against carbohydrate in the diet, if insulin spikes are benign, though, we may well be supposed to eat a lot of carbs, i. e. be omnivorous rather than carnivorous.

Obviously low carb or zero carb diets make you feel better if you have problems with hypoglycemia / diabetis. That seems to be established. However, it does not remedy the problem. Matt Stone holds that it rather exacerbates it, which is also my experience. I thought if I just stay away from carbs, my body will recover and I will be able to tolerate them better. However, after abstaining from carbs, much lesser quantities of them made me feel bad, which led to my inability to digest any kind of "normal food", basically anything except animal flesh made me miserable.

Because of circumstances I will soon have to eat some "normal" meals, maybe for an extended time, so I got very interested when I read that Matt's HED could make that possible for me without feeling like shit. Trying to eat a diet high in (cooked) starches made me feel bad at first, but now my body seems to tolerate it much better. While previously an intake of any small amount of carbs made me feel off, I can now eat like 500g of carbs a day with diminishing and already minor discomfort. Obviously this makes me wonder if the low carb / carnivorous approach is the correct one.

I think the insulin spike issue might be THE reason why people come to believe that humans should eat animal flesh exclusively or almost exclusively in the first place. All the other explanations come with that and are somewhat stretching the facts in order to give the humans as pure animal flesh eaters theory more of a theoretical basis.

I was mentioning the maned wolf, because from his appearance, he is a carnivore (I'm not sure how he is classified normally.) But in spite of that, he eats up to 50% vegetable food! And he needs vegetable food to be healthy. Doesn't this somewhat fly into the face of meat being the only "real" food?

exactly, this discussion is preposterous. Like trying to differentiate a mule with a horse? I dont see how that has any relevance to this topic, nor a good analogy for the matter.

Is it that hard? You're comparing humans to herbivores and carnivores, which ignores the existence of another category, omnivores, which humans are considered to fall into.

Just like you're saying I "think" we're carnivores, I can turn that around and say you "think" we're omnivores but it doesnt change the facts one bit.

Yes, and the fact most everybody agrees on is that humans are omnivores. I haven't really seen anybody contest this, except for vegans and people talking about how humans are more like a wolf than a cow, conveniently leaving out that there is a third category. Both appear to considerably push the facts in order to make them fit their agenda.

Once again, could you please elaborate on how we resemble omnivores more than carnivores. I.E. the best way to go about that would be to give me an example of an omnivore in nature and show me how we are closer to the omnivore than the carnivore.

carnivores have short bowels and round stomachs, herbivores have bigger stomachs or several of them and long bowels. Human stomach shape is in between, as is the length of the bowels. Human teeth are also a mixture. Incissors and molars look very much like the teeth of sheep, which are notably missing the canines humans have. Dogs (carnivore) have premolars which humans don't have and only a few molars far back. Obviously, the human digestive tract is between the two, as is that of other omnivores like pigs, mice etc.

Hans: So, a carnivore which can eat, and may sometimes eat vegetable matter, is not a carnivore but an omnivore, even though it's a carnivore?

No.... no idea where you got that from...

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 23, 2010, 12:55:58 am »
I am not saying that we are 100% carnivore, but ask yourself to pick between a herbivore and a carnivore and we are definitally closer to the carnivore.

That argument is just ridiculous though. Say your trying to classify a mule. You can classify it as a horse, a donkey or as a mule. Your argument is like saying "but it's more like a donkey" instead of saying "it's a mule." It doesn't matter if you think humans are closer to carnivores or to herbivores. Humans are omnivores, period.

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 22, 2010, 09:55:50 pm »
Yesterday I learned that African yams are often sun-dried and pulverized, then commonly eaten without cooking (though the mash can also be cooked and boiling yams is more common than sun-drying them). So fire-cooking tubers is not essential.

So interesting. Where did you find this?

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 22, 2010, 09:54:51 pm »
Really, you can't get a significant amount of carbs without cooking.  (And actually, agriculture as well, if you consider that there weren't that many carb-heavy fruits until we started selectively planting things, as I understand.)

There are wild tubers like sago or arrowroot that could have been used pre-farming afaik

For the bones thing-- well, they could've had fire but didn't cook meat (or, not that thoroughly).  And so on.

IMHO it would make a lot of sense that people cooked tubers first and ate their meat raw, as cooking improves tubers A LOT and does nothing to make meat more digestible or nutritious, the opposite is the case.

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 22, 2010, 09:51:43 pm »
It just all makes sense to me and I dont understand how some people cannot see it. We are closest related to carnivores.

Umm no... our digestive tract resembles that of an omnivore, not that of a carnivore.

Our digestive system was not meant do digest cellulose by fermentation like other animals such as cows do. Last time I checked, we only have one stomach like lions, wolves, and bears, not like herbivores. Think about it like this ya'll: SHit feeds microorganisms, fungus and humus, fungus and humus feed plants, plants feed herbivores, and herbivores feed omnivores and carnivores.

Yet there are animals such the maned wolf that doesn't do well on an all-meat diet even though he seems to be a carnivore. The distinction isn't as easy as you think - carnivore vs. herbivore. That's why the whole thing is so damn confusing.

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 20, 2010, 01:44:43 am »
And I believe, despite what the experts say, that cooking has probably been with us since pre-human days.

Can you elaborate on that?

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 18, 2010, 09:36:48 pm »
I think that actually Matt Stones' current recommendations are pretty mainstream: high carb, low fat, about 1g of protein per kg of bodyweight, maximize omega-3 vs. omega-6. Carbs mostly starches, but fruit are allowed, as are desserts in moderation. In what he differs is advocating (temporary!) overfeeding and abstaining from excercise, and his strong stance against calorie restriction.

I'm currently using his recommendations for reducing insulin resistance and food intolerances because I will have to eat some SAD food in the near future and my past reaction to it was devastating. Right now I seem to have improved at least somewhat, except dairy is still a no-no as it basically stops my digestion.

Hot Topics / Re: Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« on: July 17, 2010, 01:12:58 am »
I think when talking about the Inuit, the extreme living conditions they live under should be taken into account. Those might well speed up aging imho. Another example for low carb people would be some Native Americans WAP described - - It would be interesting to know if they showed signs of premature aging, too.

Off Topic / Re: Advice needed on relationship/honesty..
« on: July 16, 2010, 06:23:51 pm »
So basically, what im asking, is....should i be feeling this bad? Is that mistake something i should tell him, or should i leave it in the past because it dosen't matter anymore? Should absolutely everything be out in the open, even stuff thats not relevant anymore? was i being dishonest by not telling him? What should i do???

Don't tell him. He might get jealous about it or something. People can react in weird ways sometimes. You're young, so you think you should tell him everything, but you'll learn when you get older that it's not always the best thing to do.

Off Topic / Re: Advice needed on relationship/honesty..
« on: July 16, 2010, 06:21:31 pm »
The guy is full of shit. Do you really believe that if you offered him sex on the first date he would say OH NO I DON'T DO THAT? Come on.

I've done that so it's not impossible  :P

General Discussion / Re: Confused about meat storage...
« on: July 13, 2010, 04:27:25 am »
The trouble with refridgerators is that it's moist on the inside. An ideal storage place for meat would be a cool and dry environment where you could hang it up. I've had meat hanging in the kitchen for a while which worked out quite well in spite of it being warm there. The problem came with the flies... In the colder seasons it was ok, but in the summer it doesn't work out at all. I could imagine hanging up meat in an old cupboard with fly screen in the doors so the air can circulate. If there is some cool and dry place in the house, this could be a good way to store meat. It will become dry on the outside but otherwise it should stay fine.

General Discussion / Re: Where do you get your fat from?
« on: July 12, 2010, 03:08:30 pm »
GS, you live in paradise man...

General Discussion / Re: Preserving meat without freezing
« on: July 12, 2010, 03:05:16 pm »
To preserve the sausages, you have to hang them up and dry them, of course. So it's drying (again) but maybe the fact that the meat is inside the bowels may make a difference... I don't know about this, but it's the only somewhat different way of preservation I could think of. I could imagine that it was popular way back, as it keeps the flies away from your meat and therefore makes drying a lot easier.

General Discussion / Re: Preserving meat without freezing
« on: July 12, 2010, 03:44:34 am »
One way that could be preferable over simple drying could be making sausage. Just grind / chop the meat and fill it into the bowels. A lot of work but it might reduce oxidation / nutrient loss somewhat. I've made sausages that way, and they are quite good. You'd want to get a meat grinder for that that has a funnel for making sausage if you want to make any quantities. Grind the meat first, then put it through the grinder again, this time using the sausage funnel on which you've wrapped a piece of bowel, tied at the end. You can see how it's done here (of course I didn't use all those other ingredients, just plain meat):

No added water or coconut water (I mean the liquid that is naturally inside the nut)? Is it from mature coconuts? I couldn't do this with coconuts I find here. They are so dry... Maybe I could use the info when I go to Taiwan though, would be so helpful in providing the good fats.

Do you buy or make that coconut milk?

Welcoming Committee / Re: Hello from Germany
« on: July 11, 2010, 07:59:10 pm »
Willkommen  :D

Off Topic / Re: World Cup
« on: July 11, 2010, 07:56:02 pm »

Off Topic / Re: World Cup
« on: July 08, 2010, 05:37:20 am »
I'm gonna eat that squid...  :'(

Even if they have simptoms, even if they get sick, even if they know they will die from it. Most won't change. They just don't. I recently read on another forum about a couple who's child has celiac, and they won't change the diet because they find it too bothersome.
I think for most people it's not that it's too hard. A lot of people work hard every day. It's just that people don't want to be different. They'd rather die than be different.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Splain this to me Lucy
« on: July 03, 2010, 02:53:21 am »
If a cow eats only grass, leaves, herbs etc. it is eating a perfect diet for what it is, so its fat should have the highest quality possible. If you ate a perfect diet, the same would apply for you. Sadly, nobody knows what a perfect diet for humans would be. In that way, the cow has a definite advantage.

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