Author Topic: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb  (Read 20716 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« on: December 27, 2014, 07:38:30 am »
"F. Marlowe and his research group have demonstrated that the Hadza eat huge quantities of honey for months on end - something I've witnessed and participated in as well." - Jeff Leach, Founder of the Human Food Project, 12.23.14, https://www.facebook.com/humanfoodproject/posts/774527309299502

"In her ethnographic research on honey consumption, Crittenden discovered that human hunters have long targeted bee hives. The artists who painted Altamira cave in what is now Spain some 25,000 years ago, for example, left depictions of bees,  honeycombs, and—most amazing of all, in my opinion—honey collection ladders. And in Zimbabwe, archaeologists recorded a cave depiction of a human smoking out a beehive. San hunters and gatherers in the region told archaeologists that their ancestors had frequented the cave for nearly 10,000 years." - Heather Pringle, The Sweetness of Human Evolution, September 20, 2012, http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/2012/09/20/the-sweetness-of-human-evolution

"Upper Paleolithic rock art from Spain, India, Australia, and southern Africa all illustrate collecting honey. Altamira cave, in Cantabria, Spain, includes depictions of honeycombs, dated approximately 25,000 years ago. The Mesolithic Cueva de la Araña rock shelter, in Valencia Spain, contains depictions of honey collection, bee swarms, and men climbing ladders to get to the bees, at ~10,000 years ago.

Some scholars believe that collecting honey is much earlier than that, since our immediate cousins the primates regularly collect honey on their own. Crittendon has suggested that Lower Paleolithic Oldowan stone tools (2.5 mya) could have been used to split open beehives, and there's no reason that a self-respecting Australopithecine or early Homo could not have done that." - K. Kris Hirst, History of Honey Bees: The Human Management of Apis mellifera, http://archaeology.about.com/od/hterms/qt/Honey-Bees.htm

---*---

"hunting with the Hadza meant walking through brush, across savannahs, up hills and down escarpements from 7 am until 2 pm, which was a short day for them. We saw gazelles, wild boars and baboons, but didn’t catch anything. We’d be in the trail of gazelle, zebra, giraffe, ect., but our guides just kept getting sidetracked by honey! I guess its immediate and guaranteed food whereas the animals are much harder to catch." ("Living with the Hadzabe in Tanzania's Yaeda Valley," http://apvtravels.blogspot.com/2011/02/living-with-hadzabe-in-tanzanias-yaeda.html)

"Foragers in Latin America, Asia, Australia, and Africa include honey and bee larvae as major components of their diet. The Hadza hunter-gatherers of Tanzania, the population with whom I work, even list honey as their number one preferred food item!" - Dr. Elizabeth Gray, http://www.thehadzalastofthefirst.com/2012/07/30/alyssa-crittenden-how-honey-helped-to-make-us-human

From "Sex Differences in Food Preferences of Hadza Hunter-Gatherers" (2009. 7(4): 601-616, http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP07601616.pdf):
> “The most highly prized components of the Aboriginal hunter-gatherer diet were the relatively few energy-dense foods: depot fat, organ meats, fatty insects and honey” (O’Dea, Jewell, Whiten, Altmann, Strickland, and Oftedal, 1991, p. 238)
> Honey is the most energy dense food in nature (Skinner, 1991), and is highly prized by the Hadza. Honey combs often contain small amounts of bee larvae, which the Hadza consume along with the comb.
> Both males and females ranked honey first [in terms of preference]...
> ethnographers often claim that meat is the most preferred food among foragers (including the Hadza) (Bunn, 2001), yet our empirical data on individual preferences demonstrates that honey is more preferred than meat among the Hadza.

---*---

"The story of Beowulf includes a Mead-Hall called Heorot that was so big and had so much attendant laughter that the monster Grendel broke in and slaughtered the noisemakers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_hall

"This Estland [Estonia] is very large and has many fortified settlements, and in each of these there is a king. There is a great deal of honey and fishing." - Wulfstan, Two Voyagers at the court of King Alfred, trans. by Christine E. Fell (York, 1984). https://classesv2.yale.edu/access/content/user/haw6/Vikings/voyagers.html

---*---

Gurung honey hunter of Nepal with a load of honeycomb.

Raji nomad of Nepal gathering honeycomb.

Of course, we cannot assume with certainty that just because our Paleo-ancestors and other peoples ate a food that we can eat it without ill effects today. That would be blind Paleo re-enactment, which I reject. The evidence we have about the diets of our ancestors are clues, rough templates, starting points, rather than detailed prescriptions for optimal diets today.

Jeff Leach reported in a presentation I attended that the Hadza he shared honey feasts with did not suffer any signs of diabetes. He said most of them did clean their teeth often with the twigs of certain trees.

I have seen multiple reports from researchers in the field that obtaining honey from small trees normally requires no more expenditure of calories than hunting game. When the trees are not huge, my guess is that the calorie expenditure is actually less. Thus, it's no surprise that honey provides the highest net energy return of any food in the wild.

Quote
"Honey is the most energy dense food in nature. It is therefore notsurprising that, whereitexists, honey isan important food for almost all hunter-gatherers. Here we describe and analyze widespread honeycollecting among foragers and show that where it is absent, in arctic and subarctic habitats, honey beesare also rare to absent." https://www.academia.edu/9180464/Honey_hunters_and_gatherers_and_human_evolution
As Sabertooth perceptively noted: "Hunter-gather paleolithic man in [his] prime must have had a [superb] enzymatic capacity to devour and metabolize large portions of honey intermittently." And as Jeff Leach noted above, "intermittently" can mean nearly ever day for months at a time in season during plentiful years. For a HG to eat his fill, in season, of raw honeycomb and grubcomb, instead of just a smidgeon or two, would be quite "Instincto/Instinctive."
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 08:13:44 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2014, 08:31:35 am »
I used to be a big fan of honey until I realised I was getting a very nasty toxic reaction in my mouth after swallowing any liquid honey, however labelled "raw". Even eating raw honeycomb eventually brought on this reaction, albeit in a very delayed, reduced way.

Whatever the case, honey should never, imo, be eaten in liquid form, but only as raw honeycomb as the wax seemingly  reduces the sugary effect on the body. I am also sceptical as to the  daily amount of raw honey eaten without knowledge of apiculture, something likely only knowable by agricultural societies.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline jessica

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2014, 10:00:23 am »
It's probably also wrong to assume that just because they prefered honey over meat that if honey were to be more plentiful than meat that they would have been just as healthy or continue to uphold such preference.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 01:56:30 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2014, 10:02:57 am »
It's probably also wrong to assume that just because they prefered honey over meat that if honey were to be more plentiful than meat that they would have been just as healthy or continues to uphold such preference.
Which is why I wrote above:
Quote
Of course, we cannot assume with certainty that just because our Paleo-ancestors and other peoples ate a food that we can eat it without ill effects today. That would be blind Paleo re-enactment, which I reject. The evidence we have about the diets of our ancestors are clues, rough templates, starting points, rather than detailed prescriptions for optimal diets today.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2014, 12:11:56 pm »
hard to get diabetes like symptoms when you spend seven hours a day hiking up and down hills looking for food.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 12:43:18 am »
The assumption that hunter-gathers burn a lot more calories than sedentary Westerners is a common one made by many people, most often by critics of Paleo diets in general--claiming that Paleo diets were actually unhealthy and the only reason hunter gatherers are slim and generally free of diseases of civilization is because they exercise so much, and that eating a more modern diet is better. A recent study did not support that assumption. Instead, it found that while HG's like the Hadza are more physically active, they actually don't expend more energy than moderners, even if they climb trees to get honey, like the Hadza. (Why Aren't Hunter-Gatherers Obese? Wynne Parry, LiveScience Senior Writer, 09 August 2012 Time: 05:18 PM ET, http://www.livescience.com/22251-hunter-gatherers-calories-obesity.html)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 01:01:18 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 12:57:05 am »
I doubt that the Hadza are in any way representative of paleo HGs. I mean, there were other aspects in those days such as the megafauna and the limited wild  areas that the Hadza have today would have been much bigger in palaeo times, plus climate would have been harsher etc. etc. There is also one other thing:- I have noticed that once one becomes expert at a particular sport or  physical activity, one starts using much less energy than when one was a beginner. I see this, for example,  when I go skiing which is almost effortless compared to when I first started when I had to exert a lot of energy to get down the slopes.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2014, 01:02:39 am »
I can tell that you didn't read the article.
Quote
"While no living population is a perfect model of our species' past, the Hadza lifestyle is similar in critical ways to those of our Pleistocene ancestors," writes the team, referring to the epoch that spanned from 2.6 million to 11,700 years ago and saw the first emergence of our species.
http://www.livescience.com/22251-hunter-gatherers-calories-obesity.html
Besides, isn't it rather contradictory of you to cite the Hadza HGs to support your tuber arguments, and then claim that they are not representative when it comes to honey? You can't have it both ways.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 01:16:44 am »
I can tell that you didn't read the article.Besides, isn't it rather contradictory of you to cite the Hadza HGs to support your tuber arguments, and then claim that they are not representative when it comes to honey? You can't have it both ways.

Haha love this paleophil. Thank you for sharing this article.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2014, 02:06:15 am »
I can tell that you didn't read the article.Besides, isn't it rather contradictory of you to cite the Hadza HGs to support your tuber arguments, and then claim that they are not representative when it comes to honey? You can't have it both ways.
I did indeed read the article and also read that absurd, spurious, unproven claim you quoted as well. I had already cited several factors which would have made Hadza lifestyles appear anything BUT palaeo.

I never suggested that the Hadzas'  preference for honey above other foods was necessarily palaeo, (though that did merely confirm my past comments re tubers not being considered ideal for modern HGs). Indeed, I had mentioned that, prior to agriculture/apiculture, getting hold of regular, sizeable  supplies of honeycomb must have been quite difficult.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 02:11:42 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline eveheart

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 04:16:32 am »
Quote
"If current models for obesity are correct, the Hadza, with their natural diet and lack of mechanization, should expend more energy than individuals living in market economies with comparatively sedentary lifestyles and highly-processed, sugar-rich diets," they write.

In the context of the current calories-in-vs-calories-out model of obesity, the article seems to prove the study team's conclusion. That model of obesity attributes calorie-expenditure as the only metabolic impact of exercise. That was echoed in the Editor's Note, which says "The results of the study indicate that the caloric intake in western countries, not a sedentary lifestyle, have lead to high rates of obesity."

Anybody who is successfully treating for metabolic syndrome can tell you that IF you don't exercise, your body cannot regulate storage of dietary carbohydrate as fat, even with good caloric balance.

Starting out with erroneous science as your premise is a good basis for politics, not science.

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Offline ciervo-chaman

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2014, 08:14:50 pm »
Is the wax from the honeycomb, when eaten whole with the honey and so, of some nutritional value? I have never swallowed it. (just in really small pieces, but not in purpose, when eating honeycomb)

Apart from energy (fructose, glucose, sucrose, etc) and water, are there in honey some nutrient in a significant amount? does honey have another benefits? I have seen that you must eat like 8-9 pound of honey to see some benefit from the mineral-vitamin content of it.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 09:30:43 pm »
Technically, I believe that the wax has no definite nutritional value, but it does seem to negate a nasty reaction I have to it. Ideally, one should eat the raw honeycomb plus any bee propolis, bee pollen or royal jelly.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline ciervo-chaman

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2014, 10:01:03 pm »
when i chew honeycomb, when the wax starts to desintegrate, I have the desire to swallow it as it is, with the wax. If I continue chewing (and separating the wax from the honey) i don't want to swallow it anymore.

Can I ask you, do you have any intestinal discomfort for swallowing the wax? have you ate little of it or sometime too much? i feel like i will be constipated from the wax (like blocked) but it is just an unjustified fear. I have never tried to.

what is the nasty reaction you are having from honey alone? i think i have like ache on my gum, somethimes in the theets. (i don't know if it is exactly cause of honey, but i suspect).

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2014, 04:58:00 am »
Would it be safe to assume eating honeycomb with the wax could lower honey's GI?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2014, 09:09:43 am »
when i chew honeycomb, when the wax starts to desintegrate, I have the desire to swallow it as it is, with the wax. If I continue chewing (and separating the wax from the honey) i don't want to swallow it anymore.

Can I ask you, do you have any intestinal discomfort for swallowing the wax? have you ate little of it or sometime too much? i feel like i will be constipated from the wax (like blocked) but it is just an unjustified fear. I have never tried to.

what is the nasty reaction you are having from honey alone? i think i have like ache on my gum, somethimes in the theets. (i don't know if it is exactly cause of honey, but i suspect).
No, I get no intestinal discomfort from swallowing the wax. It seems purely beneficial to me and I get the nasty reaction from it only if I have consumed a lot of raw honeycomb at one sitting, whereas so-called raw, liquid honey has a negative reaction immediately.

As for the negative reaction, it is difficult to describe as it is such an alien feeling. Basically, it feels like suddenly something very toxic is in my mouth and I feel a bit weak overall. I think it must have something to do with affecting the blood-sugar-levels or something.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline van

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2014, 09:18:58 am »
insulin is release  when eating sugar, even when not swallowed,, simply the body recognizing the immediate need of it from being in the mouth.  Or it might be a Palovian response, maybe even the sight of it..   

Offline van

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2014, 09:19:28 am »
should have been Pavlovian

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2014, 09:32:42 am »
insulin is release  when eating sugar, even when not swallowed,, simply the body recognizing the immediate need of it from being in the mouth.  Or it might be a Palovian response, maybe even the sight of it..   
The sight of the honey or honeycomb did not trigger the reaction, it just happened soon after it came into my mouth.  Maybe I was just extremely sugar-sensitive at the time. I had been eating RVLC for  quite some time then.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2015, 06:11:41 am »
You're welcome, Tribe. I hope it goes without saying that I'm not prescribing honey for anyone else. What works for me may not work for others, and what works short term may not work as well long term or at the same doses and frequencies. I don't eat a lot of honey myself, usually just a teaspoon or two now and then, sometimes more, of the few honeys that I do well with. I don't have the Hadza HG's abilities to metabolize honey and tolerate carbs and I doubt I ever will, though it is improved and who knows--as the saying goes, "anything's possible." I'm just trying to figure all this stuff out myself and share what I find and experience. It's heartening to see that you seem to have found some things that are helping you and I wish you good luck with your search for what will work for you.

raw honeycomb as the wax seemingly  reduces the sugary effect on the body.
Indeed, Tyler, the possibility of honeycomb having a prebiotic effect is something I hypothesized myself and discussed offline, and someone gave me a link supporting it, but I can't find it. Please let me know if you come across anything.

This is the closest thing I could find--interestingly, this study found that even liquid (eucalypt tree) honey has a prebiotic effect, which I doubt you'll care for, but maybe someone else may find it interesting:
Quote
“For the first time researchers engaged in this study have been able to show in human trials that Australian eucalypt honeys have prebiotic qualities at levels that could help improve gut health, which can have a couple of important flow on effects,” Dr Dall said.

...

“Prebiotic foods promote the growth of beneficial bacteria in the human intestine with a positive impact on health. In recent years awareness of the role of intestinal bacteria and their complex interactions in human health has increased markedly.

“There is increasing evidence that the gut microbiota is intrinsically linked to our metabolic health and a number of gastrointestinal diseases, such as inflammatory bowel disease, cancer, cardiovascular disease and obesity have been linked with a degradation of beneficial gut microbiota.”

Aussie honey good for gut health: new research uncovers prebiotic qualities, 08 May 2014
http://www.rirdc.gov.au/news/2014/05/08/aussie-honey-good-for-gut-health-new-research-uncovers-prebiotic-qualities
Of course, it's only one study and the Aussie gov't has the bias of wanting to help their honey industry. The results need to be reproduced by other studies before conclusions can be drawn. It appears to be another interesting clue, though.

Ideally, one would eat the honeycomb and the grubcomb along with the honey, and eat meat, fruits and veggies from purely wild, pristine sources, but we don't live in an ideal world and do the best we can in the context of what's available and affordable to us and fits our individual needs and choices.

One thing I have found is that my personal experience doesn't always match that of other folks or Internet theories. I tested various honeys, including the best honeycomb honeys I could find, and I actually found that I fared better with certain comb-less honeys. If they had the combs, I would certainly eat those too, and my experience won't necessarily  match anyone else's. It's just my n=1 experience, FWIW.

I did indeed read the article and also read that absurd, spurious, unproven claim you quoted as well. I had already cited several factors which would have made Hadza liefestyles appear anything BUT palaeo.
How do you square dismissing as "absurd, spurious, unproven" and "anything BUT palaeo" Hadza HG research on honey and their overall "lifestyles" despite having used Hadza HG research yourself re: tubers?

Quote
I never suggested that the Hadzas'  preference for honey above other foods was necessarily palaeo, (though that did merely confirm my past comments re tubers not being considered ideal for modern HGs). Indeed, I had mentioned that, prior to agriculture/apiculture, getting hold of regular, sizeable  supplies of honeycomb must have been quite difficult.
The research I shared from multiple sources and personally discussed with one researcher is about Hadza HGs gorging on WILD--not agrarian/apiculture--honeycomb/grubcomb in sizeable quantities for weeks and even months at a time, in season. If you disagree with the researchers, then I suggest that you discuss it with one of them, as I did. I don't want to debate your opinions on it. If you learn something new from one of the researchers or come across new additional scientific research, please let me know. I seek to learn, rather than debate.

I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone of anything who is set against it. The info I share is for folks like Tribe who are open to it and interested. If anyone is not interested, that's fine. To each his/her own.

In the context of the current calories-in-vs-calories-out model of obesity, the article seems to prove the study team's conclusion. That model of obesity attributes calorie-expenditure as the only metabolic impact of exercise. That was echoed in the Editor's Note, which says "The results of the study indicate that the caloric intake in western countries, not a sedentary lifestyle, have lead to high rates of obesity."

Anybody who is successfully treating for metabolic syndrome can tell you that IF you don't exercise, your body cannot regulate storage of dietary carbohydrate as fat, even with good caloric balance.

Starting out with erroneous science as your premise is a good basis for politics, not science.
Indeed, and the findings of the study were pretty much the opposite of what the food industry and public health authorities have been saying for years, and thus the  opposite of politics.

Here's the study, for anyone interested:
Hunter-Gatherer Energetics and Human Obesity
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0040503
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2015, 11:34:08 am »
Do you guys have any insight on Manuka honey? Does it live up to all the "hype"???

Is the really raw honey brand a safe buy?


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2015, 11:41:19 am »
I don't care much for the taste or effects of most of the Manuka honeys I tried, though I did like the Healing Honey brand, and other people swear by Manuka, so it all comes down to the particular Manuka honey and the individual.

I found what I liked and tolerated well by trying small containers of many different raw honeys, including nearly all the ones that were highly touted in this forum. I disliked some so much, or fared so badly, that I threw them out. I rank health and well being effects #1 when it comes to honey and other foods, with taste being secondary, yet also important. I find that the foods that have good health effects also tend to taste better over time, as I eat more of them. I find that there are two basic types that I do well with--tree honeys that aren't super sweet (such as wild harvested Neem tree honey and Spanish old growth forest honey - which means the honey comes mainly from the nectar of the blossoms of those trees) and fermented honey (which is not mead--I find I have to write that every time or someone will claim that it's mead  :( -- which is not to say that I don't like any mead, it's just a different thing).

Among the more ordinary honeys, such as clover honey, I found Wee Bee wild harvested honey to be pretty good. I tend to find wild harvested honeys to be better than average. Perhaps more wild-like bees are healthier and produce better honeys?

Among comb honeys, Tyler tipped us off to look for ones that have some dark bits in the combs, which is also more like wild honey. I find that the ones where the bees make the honey combs right in the round containers tend to be pretty good, such as Rabbit Mountain raw comb (clover) honey. Unfortunately, they are also somewhat more expensive than avg.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 12:00:46 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 09:06:13 pm »
I heard really raw honey and honey Pacifica feeds there bees sugar syrups/corn syrup! Does anyone know a few reputable brands that are not just labeled raw, but are unheated, organic/non Gmo? I need a brand that's safe to buy from?

Offline IronDog

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2015, 05:16:09 am »
HI all.

I too  noticed that I could eat raw honey on the comb without getting any high blood sugar reactions. When I could not get hold of any comb I tried the best raw liquid honey with very negative results - I wouldn't recommend any liquid honey . The comb defininitely makes a difference. And the best part of the comb is the darker more caramel looking part. It is a bit strange that when I see this my eyes want to feed on it and I get a little excited. So rich, so good - nothing can beat that in the world of rich sweetness.

I also feel that it cleans my teeth as I chew on it. I may swallow a tiny bit, removing most of it after sometime; maybe 10 minutes.

Are you aware that Manuka honey is pasteurized? Google airborne.co.nz for good NZ honey, though comb honey is out of stock at the moment.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 05:48:38 am by TylerDurden »

Offline Ablem1959

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Re: Raw Paleo Honey / Honeycomb / Grubcomb
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2015, 04:51:12 pm »
I have also witnessed the same thing as one of my diabetic friend often eat raw honey on the comb and his blood sugar levels remain stable. Raw honey is one of the healthiest thing you can eat and it will keep you safe from many diseases.

 

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