Author Topic: Josh's Newbie Journal  (Read 32275 times)

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Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2009, 12:12:15 am »
Basically crashes and cravings...if I try and meet my energy needs with fruit, I end up getting carb crashes and craving more and more.

Maybe it's cause of the seasonal nature of fruit - people hypothesise that we're programmed to feast on berries when they're around to store calories.

This is probably unhealthy all the time as it will cause insulin spikes, be pro aging and all that. I'm not sure which is the lesser of two evils, but I can function on slow digesting carbs but don't seem to on mainly fruit.

You probably can get away with a fair bit of carbs if you've got enough fat in the first place - maybe the body will still be geared up for fat as the primary fuel.

I dunno. I just feel that I need enough fat to do it properly...if I just have a few marrow bones here and there and a bit of tongue, my system isn't settled on one thing or the other if that makes sense.

Offline Ioanna

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2009, 12:31:45 am »
hey josh,

what about maybe a fatty ground meat and raw egg yolks?  i don't know if that works for you, but it would be easier to find an immediate source?

if eating starch/carbs works for you, that's one thing, but your writing sounds like you're making compromises.   

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2009, 05:19:04 am »
If you feel you don't have the resources to do the diet now then don't stress about it, but I would caution against the "I'll get to it when the stars and planets and moons align" syndrome that I see occasionally in others and myself as well. It is sooooooo much easier to plan something like this and not get to it than to give it a whirl.

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2009, 06:12:45 pm »
Thanks appeciate the replies gang. Yeh, I will make a plan and carry it out...basically stockpile fatty things in the freezer until I have enough to last for a while, then hopefully I will have picked up some regular contacts.

I didn't get on with the old mince meat and eggs plan when I tried it zero carb....I could give it a go with a bit of fruit, but think I will have the fat as a backup reserve first in case it doesn't work out.

It's too wrenching to try and go in and out of fat adaption every couple of days or whatever.

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2009, 09:38:43 pm »
Ok...I think I'm ready to give it another go from today. I've got some suet in my fridge and seem to have enough contacts for food :)

I was planning to do it at the weekend, but I had a big birthday and didn't manage it with the drinking. Myself and friends ate a fair amount of beef heart. My friends wife is Japanese and she had wasabi and soy sauce. I've bought some as it made eating raw strips of meat so enjoyable. I probably don't want to do it forever, but will make me look forward to meals which counts for a lot.

I'm going to have a bowl of raw oats and some olive oil for breakfast about 11, then raw meat and fat for dinner. I'll try gradually reducing the amount of oats. Again, not forever but I think it will help to have a slow digesting carb to keep energy stable.

Tongue for dinner tonight...

See you later.

J

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2009, 02:17:26 am »
Well I was sick as a dog last night. Not sure why...possible eating too much droewors - kind of dried jerky sausage - then eating raw at night.

Don't think it was food poisoning as that keeps going forever. I felt ok after I was sick.

This morning was ok though. I did a free weights workout. I didn't think I was going to get into that again, but it felt good to do it in moderation. Was great for the diet...I felt really hungry for meat after and had a big brunch of liver and ribeye steak.

The oats seem to work as a methodone to the carb heroin. 1 small bowl in the morning, and I can control the cravings all day. I still feel the burn which is probably good in terms of adapting. So today in terms of carbs I just had some oats am and a cup of blackberries in the afternoon.

Apart from that, eating marrow, suet, tongue hearts and steak without measuring. Trying to eat more and more fat and pushing myself a bit beyond the amount of meat I want to eat.

Looking forward to dinner!   :)

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2009, 04:33:31 am »
Reads like you're doing well.

Offline Josh

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Foodclash raw paleo vs kitava!!111!!
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2009, 07:39:51 pm »
Hi. Haven't updated for a while, as I've just been going through a cycle of sticking to strict low carb raw paleo then messing it up with junk food.

I managed to do raw paleo for 2 1/2 weeks. I felt great in some ways. My skin was very young looking and tight (I got id for a knife and I'm 30 ffs. I felt very strong, and feel my muscle density may have increased. Also, about 2 weeks in, I noticed my eyesight suddenly become extremely clear and sharp. I don't have any particular problems in that regard, but it was amazing. Could be to do with the eye muscles improving, retina function or something in the brain...probably never know.

However, I experienced the very low energy and paranoia, bad brain function described in another thread and ended up eating junk.

Going to Oslo was one of the best things I've ever done, but it blew the diet out of the window. The jerky I made to take was spoiled and stinky for some reason. I took fat but it was hard to find any decent meat and had to make do with a savage exchange rate. It was mostly factory farmed mince. You can get frozen elk meat, but damn it's expensive.

I bought some frozen reindeer meat but it seemed partially cooked so I made a bolognese with it lol. Was very tasty anyway. The rest of the time, I ended up getting a breakfast buffet in the morning and ravaging it, loading up on cereal, bread n cheese n jam, crap salami and lots of coffee. Then more coffee and bolle (spiced fruit and choc buns)

It tasted good though :)

I was walking for 7 hours a day though so hopefully that helped limit the damage :) Interestingly, although I feel bad in some ways, my skin is reasonable (cheese fat?) and my minds working very quick and creatively - probably still full of caffeine lol.

Anyway, where I am now is that I've decided to do a hybrid of raw paleo and the diet I felt great on before all this. 'Rightly' or 'wrongly' I need to stabilise myself and have oomph for other things in my life for a while. May turn out to be a good way of transitioning as well.

So I will have raw meat, organs and fat for one meal a day. The other meal will be sweet potatoes, yam or oats if I'm in a hurry. I'll make a meal of it with some tinned tuna, fish curry etc, olive and coconut oil and some fruit. I will be taking a multimineral and vitamin d supplement and possibly a couple of others.

I will be aiming for about 60-70 grams of carb a day. Something like 21g from one cup of blueberries and less than a cup of sweet potato etc to make up the rest.

I just found out from wikipedia that you can dry sweet potato actually so I might stick it in the jerky maker. Anyone know if you can eat it raw?

I'll keep you posted how it goes.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2009, 10:06:28 pm »
I would not recommend eating dried fruits or veggies of any kind.  Dried fruit is the single worst food for health that I know of.  Sweet potatoes are full of sugar, so I would guess they have a similar effect.

William

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Re: Foodclash raw paleo vs kitava!!111!!
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2009, 10:32:13 pm »
The jerky I made to take was spoiled and stinky for some reason.

Probably too much water left in it.
I dry meat at 35C for at least 3 days, and render fat at >boiling temp of water for at least 24 hours; none of it has ever gone bad.

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2009, 02:35:37 am »
It was bad when I took it out the jerky maker. Dried it for 3 days. Maybe the temp dropped too low, but it is summer in the uk so seems strange. Have to look into it.

Re: dried sweet potatoes...why are they so bad in your opinion? I know with dried fruit it would be easy to eat a lot, but say if I ate the same amount I would have had cooked.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2009, 04:38:19 am »
If you are going to eat dried sweet potatoes, I would eat them very sparingly, and pay close attention to how they make you feel.  In general, carbs are not at all healthy when dried, unlike fat/meat.  I don't hold out much hope for sweet potatoes being healthy when dried.

William

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2009, 05:04:18 am »
It was bad when I took it out the jerky maker. Dried it for 3 days. Maybe the temp dropped too low, but it is summer in the uk so seems strange. Have to look into it.


Then I'd guess not enough airflow - happened once to me when the electric power failed - my usual dryer has a fan.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2009, 05:40:40 am »
If you are going to eat dried sweet potatoes, I would eat them very sparingly, and pay close attention to how they make you feel.  In general, carbs are not at all healthy when dried, unlike fat/meat.  I don't hold out much hope for sweet potatoes being healthy when dried.

    Dried fat is healthy?  I think aajonus says it's not.  Also, I don't think I can digest meat that has been dried.  I think this may depend of the individual's digestive process. 

    I did eat raw sweet potato the other day.  I had a headache before that, and the headache went away after.  The sweet potato may have helped me, but it was not dried.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2009, 08:27:53 pm »
Oats never appealed to me, except in cookies and granola, and appeal to me even less now. Bread was always more of a food holder to me than a tasty food in and of itself (except for the rare instances where I ate just-made homemade bread), though its convenience meant I ate a lot of it. I was always in search of a better tasting bread. I'd find one that seemed rather good, but then in a matter of months or so it would stop tasting good to me and just become a food holder again. It was quite easy for me to give up oats and bread. Never liked sweet potatoes.

Cereal and cheese hold no appeal for me anymore, though I used to like extra sharp cheddar cheese quite a bit, but that was increasingly becoming less tasty to me too, interestingly. I would have to eat sharper and sharper cheese to get pleasure from it, and then even the sharpest cheese no longer satisfied me, though for some reason I couldn't stop eating it. I later tested as extremely intolerant of, and allergic to, whey, casein and lactose, so perhaps I was addicted. Ice cream still appeals to me, but my memory of it grows vaguer by the day. Plus, the last time I tried to eat ice cream I got violently ill, which is quite a disincentive.

The memory of the taste of jam still appeals to me, but none of the things it goes on appeal to me except homemade flaxseed meal pancakes that I no longer eat, and eating it alone doesn't appeal to me, so overall I don't crave that either, despite the fruity sweetness.

So if you avoid these foods for as long as I have (about 2 - 5 years, depending on the food), any cravings you might have for any of these foods may go away. I'd say my cravings became pretty minimal after just 2-3 months. At this point I even forget they exist until someone reminds me.

Admittedly, I do miss berries and nondairy chocolate, which were some of the last treats I gave up, so they are still fresh in my memory, but I rarely think about the foods I have given up until others bring them up. Maybe that's why I've managed to stick pretty well to what I thought was healthy foods, with the main problem being that I didn't realize that I should be avoiding even more foods than I was (particularly carbs).

In retrospect, I think these practices have been key:
> I keep the "bad" foods out of my house and office workspace
> When shopping, I learn where my good foods are and go straight to them--if I look at the really bad foods I think of them as not being food at all (for example, I note how bland, bleached, dry and unappealing most baked goods look); I think about the time I'm saving with my simplified shopping list (and I've never liked shopping much)--heck, I don't even need a list anymore  ;D
> If I have to share food storage space with someone, I keep my foods separate and easily accessible
> I try to keep plenty of my good foods on hand at all times at home and work
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

William

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2009, 10:03:07 pm »


Admittedly, I do miss berries and nondairy chocolate, which were some of the last treats I gave up, so they are still fresh in my memory, but I rarely think about the foods I have given up until others bring them up.

I was rid of the chocolate craving by eating 1/2 ounce of Bakers' unsweetened chocolate, whenever I felt like it.
This was about every six months. The stuff is high in magnesium, a common deficiency, so maybe our system becomes better at gettin the magnesium from raw meat over time.


Quote
> When shopping, I learn where my good foods are and go straight to them--if I look at the really bad foods I think of them as not being food at all (for example, I note how bland, bleached, dry and unappealing most baked goods look); I think about the time I'm saving with my simplified shopping list (and I've never liked shopping much)--heck, I don't even need a list anymore  ;D


I feel that there is no food fit for human consumption in food stores - I buy eggs there because there is no source of decent eggs locally. Lots of temptation there though, I usually buy a brace of bananas, once some ham. I eat this on the way home because there shall be no unfit food in my house.


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2009, 04:42:22 am »
...maybe our system becomes better at gettin the magnesium from raw meat over time.
Interesting observation. I never had a huge craving for chocolate, but I did feel a tug whenever I walked by the nondairy chocolate in the stores. Since I went ZC I feel less of a tug. I did have multiple symptoms of magnesium deficiency on SAD. Unfortunately, standard medical tests for measuring magnesium levels are notoriously inadequate, inaccurate and expensive, but these symptoms did improve when I took magnesium supplements for a time and when I went ZC and ate more raw meat. So I think you may be on to something there.

Strangely, straight dark chocolate upsets my stomach, but not so much dark chocolate with some mint or nuts added to it (although even they could if I ate too much of it). It doesn't make sense to me and I told myself it was just psychological, but that didn't work. At any rate, I'm not eating it anymore since I went ZC.

Quote
I feel that there is no food fit for human consumption in food stores - I buy eggs there because there is no source of decent eggs locally. Lots of temptation there though, I usually buy a brace of bananas, once some ham.
I envy you. Once I have a freezer and am more used to raw meats I hope to buy more from direct sources.

Quote
I eat this on the way home because there shall be no unfit food in my house.
Good policy.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2009, 07:29:43 pm »
I think for me at the moment having a 'healthy' cooked meal with carbs is the lesser of two evils vs having only paleo food in the house and then eating take away.

I just need to get my brain working for a while. Been trying paleo for at least 6 months...I'm capable of forcing myself to stick to it strictly, but the symptoms are too bad to handle when I need to interact with people, be out all day, build up my business etc.

Maybe this will turn out to be a gradual transition, or maybe at some point in the future I will need to try and go hardcore again. The way I look at it now, even if I ate a semi raw semi kitavan diet for the rest of my life, well that's not too shabby.

Re: jerky, thanks William I did put cloths on the edges of the box that time - trying to make a better seal. Maybe it needed the extra airflow from leaks! I'll try it with a bit of cheap steak.


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2009, 12:59:48 am »
I think for me at the moment having a 'healthy' cooked meal with carbs is the lesser of two evils vs having only paleo food in the house and then eating take away. ....
It's not necessary to go to quite those bad extremes when eating take away--at least not where I live. I become acquainted with what are the least bad options in my area and on the road so that I don't eat carby foods in those cases either. For fast foods this tends to be salads, plain pre-cooked burgers and chicken without buns, etc. Not ideal options, but better than carby cooked foods. For sit-down restaurants I try to go to sashimi, Brazilian, steak and seafood, and gourmet restaurants, if whomever I'm with will do so. I'm sure other people here who do more take away and eating out than I do will have better options.

One help for me is to always have jerky with tallow or pemmican on hand so I don't need take-away.

Quote
Re: jerky, thanks William I did put cloths on the edges of the box that time - trying to make a better seal. Maybe it needed the extra airflow from leaks! I'll try it with a bit of cheap steak.
I also find that the hot and humid weather of the summer causes mold to grow more quickly on my jerky, even when stored in paper bags, so I make somewhat smaller batches or eat them more quickly.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2009, 06:06:49 pm »
Appreciate the thoughts - there are also decent options for cooked 'paleo' near here - various kinds of ethnic grilled meats...tasty :), but that wasn't exactly what I meant. I was saying that if I only have meat and fruit in the house then when I feel that I must eat a cooked meal with starch to stabilise then I get take away.

I have the will to force myself, but the brain symptoms are too to carry out my life, and I just need to be able to function well for a while. Will probably try and cut out the starches when I can take a long holiday.

William

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2009, 09:06:59 pm »
I get the impression that you are still doing low fat, if true, then an occasional fix with starch/carbs is inevitable.

Been there, done that.  :(

A source of biologically acceptable animal fat is essential, and difficult for those of us who have no access to Slanker's tallow.

Offline Josh

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2009, 10:15:35 pm »
Nah...I was never low fat mate. I've been eating grass fed marrow, suet and tongue for a while and before that I always ate olive oil, coconut and fish.

When I was veggie back in the day, I used to eat tons of cheese and margarine!

William

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2009, 06:11:39 am »
The pemmican that some live on is either 70% or 80% fat by calorie; that's what I use for a standard.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2009, 01:10:54 pm »
.... I was saying that if I only have meat and fruit in the house then when I feel that I must eat a cooked meal with starch to stabilise then I get take away.
I don't know what you mean by "starch to stabilise"? Stabilise what? For me, I would do better with just meat & fat with some lower-sugar fruit than with adding starch. Starches are known craving inducers.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline JaredBond

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Re: Josh's Newbie Journal
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2009, 03:45:56 pm »
Josh, why the raw oats?  I know they taste good, but oats are notoriously hard to digest.  Don't they give you gas or bloating?

I know this forum is called "RAW Paleo Forum", but humans did not traditionally eat everything raw.  Most of the time, foods from plant sources need to be "processed", because we can't digest them easily and they also have anti-nutrients that impede absorption of minerals.  In the case for oats, that means soaking in an acidic solution for 24 hours and then possibly cooking.  (That is, if you're going to eat carbs.)  This is one of the first things I learned from the Weston A Price Foundation, and I've never heard anything to refute it.

It's true that the Gaelics did eat raw oats occasionally, rolled in butter, but they were aware of the risks.  If someone were to come down with an illness, they knew to cut out the raw oats and that would usually solve the problem.  Most of the time they would eat oats that had gone through several fermentation processes, and cooked.

 

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