Author Topic: To Hearty Effect...  (Read 7155 times)

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Offline MrBBQ

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To Hearty Effect...
« on: August 26, 2009, 04:48:11 pm »
Hey all,

I've been away from the forum for some time, trying to go with my intuition and attempting to transition of low/zero carb RAF.

However, this last week, after eating mainly meat, fat and egg yolks (usually 60% fats - for last 2 weeks), I've noticed some aching in my upper left quadrant and often an almost hypertensive/tachycardic state. I've been using my training heart rate monitor to check my resting/walking pulse, which is generally between 85-105. My breathing also seems to be more pronounced/hyper when I'm conscious of it. I've also been drinking coconut water with a few drops of ConcenTrace (trace elements without the sodium) for extra minerals, as well as taking a few capsules of french clay + shilajit.

Is this a typical effect of transitioning to keto-adaptation and should i fall back to a certain weight of carbs again to gauge the effect? I know there are posts on here documenting various ill effects from immature transitioning to zero carb RAF but I don't recall when anyone/everyone posted now.

I've never known my heart/circulation to be this restless before, so I'm wondering if anyone has any insights.

Cheers,

MrBBQ
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 05:12:18 pm »
Well, when I did my abortive zero-carb trials(c.5-6 weeks), I ended up with much the same experience re rapid-beating heart and chest pains. Don't know what to suggest to end it, if that's possible. Perhaps up the fat-intake?

Interestingly, I also get the same experience often after eating cooked animal food dishes.
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William

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 06:25:29 pm »
I would suspect the coconut water with a few drops of ConcenTrace, as I can't see fat raw meat and water harming anyone.

Offline MrBBQ

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 06:50:34 pm »
Well, without some extra minerals on all meat/fat/yolks, I seem to be getting muscle cramping as if my calcium/magnesium or sodium/potassium ratio is messed up.

@Tyler: Did you fall back to low (instead of no) carb and it resolved itself, or what? How long did it take and what amount of carbs per day?

@william: I used this coconut water/concentrace formula long before zero carb RAF without any effect, which is why I'm suspecting zero carb RAF - that of course as we can see reconciles with Tyler's experience...Maybe it's the combo of coco+trace+zero carb...

My meat supply is almost out, so I think I'm going to hold for 1-2 weeks and monitor my heart rate.

Does anyone use one of those home vacuum packers to keep meat fresh at fridge temperature?
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

carnivore

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 06:57:24 pm »
The more I eat raw fat, the more my pulse increases and I get cramps. Others complain to the same symptoms. It is clearly caused by too much fat, and I don't think carbs will change anything unless it replaces the excess fat intake.

I believe one meal a day of meat/fat is generally enough on a raw carnivorous diet.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 07:09:14 pm by carnivore »

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 07:25:54 pm »
Maybe your transition to low carb should take a bit longer.
No sense rushing things.
I don't rush myself.
I go lower carb every month.
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Offline MrBBQ

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 08:18:43 pm »
Haha, thanks for the quick responses.

It was probably more experimentation than rushing, hehe. I'm a curious party...

Really, it's borne out of a will for those fat-soluble vitamins - the enamel on my teeth is diminished/weakened from my apple cider vinegar + citrus + burgeoning fruitarian days, so I'm just trying to avoid those fast sugars and acids in my locally available fruits. Without the concentrated carbs or abundance of fruits, I was seeking slow-burning, stable energy from fats (with those great vitamins).

I will definitely ease up on the fats/meats now and transition slowly. Does anyone have any hints about good energy sources without the fast moving sugars in hybrid fruits or concentrated grains/neolithic foods.

Did anyone use neolithic foods while transitioning like pure, raw gluten-free (although not avenin-free!) oats with milk kefir/yoghurt/miso? You get the idea...

I have noticed since eating more fats/meats that I have gained some healthy weight back, which I lost over a couple of years while raw vegan/fruitarian.

So does anyone have a good measure of fats/meats per day, which works for them or is it down to experimentation? Usually, I'm measuring out 200g fatty meat plus 150g suet/back fat twice per day, which I consume as meals with a couple of egg yolks. I tried having cooked egg whites as a transitional thing, but found they were difficult to pass out of the other end!
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 01:35:49 am »
Well, without some extra minerals on all meat/fat/yolks, I seem to be getting muscle cramping as if my calcium/magnesium or sodium/potassium ratio is messed up.

Some have mentioned cramps being an issue on zero carb, in the past.

Quote
@Tyler: Did you fall back to low (instead of no) carb and it resolved itself, or what? How long did it take and what amount of carbs per day?

It resolved itself completely as soon as I went back to eating raw carbs. Took a few days or so, as I recall.

"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

William

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 02:30:45 am »
Well, without some extra minerals on all meat/fat/yolks, I seem to be getting muscle cramping as if my calcium/magnesium or sodium/potassium ratio is messed up.



This is common in the early days/weeks of ZC. Some fix it with a potassium supplement - I used pure potassium gluconate powder, no longer needed.


Quote
So does anyone have a good measure of fats/meats per day,

Blake F. Donaldson MD had success prescribing a 3:1 ratio of meat to fat in the form of a six ounce porterhouse steak 3 times/day and water between meals. Coffee was allowed, nothing else.


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2009, 11:48:22 am »
How puzzling. I get just the opposite--potassium cramps from eating even small amounts of plant carbs that are resolved by raw red meat. Raw red meat is a known good source of minerals so I wonder what the mechanism for mineral deficiency from it would be?

Clay binds with minerals and thus depletes them from your body, so I don't think I would take clay every day if your potassium is low.

Most of the people who go cold turkey on carbs get heart palpitations and other problems, so it sounds like the main issue may be that you're transitioning faster than your body can adjust to. I haven't noticed anyone getting bad side effects who did a gradual transition to ZC or carnivore like me, but maybe I haven't read all the posts on this board, so I could have missed some cases of this.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

carnivore

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 04:05:30 pm »
Most of the people who go cold turkey on carbs get heart palpitations and other problems, so it sounds like the main issue may be that you're transitioning faster than your body can adjust to. I haven't noticed anyone getting bad side effects who did a gradual transition to ZC or carnivore like me, but maybe I haven't read all the posts on this board, so I could have missed some cases of this.

I never had heart palpitation going cold turkey on carbs.

I did a gradual transition to ZC and my heart palpitation is clearly caused by too much fat. I can gorge on lean meat and have no increased pulse.
My transition is probably still too fast.

William

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 09:39:32 pm »
I had a few incidents of heart palpitations when starting zero carb, and was delighted to have them, thinking that such a trivial thing is a sign of detox, and preferable to the terrifying heart arrhythmias that caused my search for a cure.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: To Hearty Effect...
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2009, 07:04:01 am »
OK, thanks guys. I created a poll to try to get a better handle on this: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/how-did-you-transition-to-zccarnivore/

If that doesn't show any correlation, maybe I can try fat levels next.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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