Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 737956 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1900 on: September 07, 2013, 09:35:37 pm »
Quote
Phil, I didn't find your post vague nor objectionable, I just didn't find the links useful.  They contained lots of observations that might be valid, but there is no clear way to use any of the information.
I think there may be additional real things one can do for prostate health--and for reducing chronic oxidative stress (which is a different concept than the external stressors that most folks think about when they think of stress), chronic inflammation, and chronic deficiencies--beyond the iodine protocol, your version of VLC raw Paleo diet, drugs, and surgery, but like I said, I don't wish to derail your journal with it. I may make a thread or two on it some day and I'll probably put bits and pieces relating to it in my journal from time to time.

For example, I think there may be ways to improve what the body does with zinc and other nutrients, but I'm too early in my own learning about and experimenting with it to post much on it and answer questions now.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 03:53:50 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1901 on: September 08, 2013, 06:40:23 am »
I took a look at your lab report and I see your RDW # improved, Lex, though it's still somewhat high. I wonder if the iodine helped? I found one case of anemia correcting with Lugol's: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7079684. Maybe it improves anemia by helping the thyroid? Danny Roddy thinks, based on Ray Peat, that your past TSH #'s were too high (he reported that around 0.5 is optimal http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/the-myth-of-male-pattern-baldnes) and your CO2 numbers too low. I would have been interested to see your TSH # with the Lugol's therapy.

High RDW with normal MCV is associated with mixed deficiency (Iron + B12 or folate) anemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_blood_cell_distribution_width) and possibly the early stages of deficiency in vitamin B12 plus folic acid (http://www.justanswer.com/medical/4395a-rdw-17-8-mcv-normal-b12-high-iron-saturation-iron-35.html). I noted before that the latter seemed more likely in your case, but your MCV was a touch low-normal in the past. High RDW with low MCV is associated with iron deficiency anemia, which is surprising in your case given the heavy read meat intake. I see the MCV rose in this test.

RDW is increasingly being regarded as an important measure:
Quote
"Higher RDW values (anisocytosis) indicate greater variation in size, and have typically been associated with anemias and nutritional deficiencies. ....

Potential Mechanisms: RDW may represent an integrative measure of multiple pathologic processes in heart failure (e.g., nutritional deficiencies, renal dysfunction, hepatic congestion, inflammatory stress) thus explaining its association with clinical outcomes. ....

In another study that examined a more representative community-based population, for every 1% increment in RDW, total mortality risk increased by 14%." http://www.trackyourplaque.com/forum/topics.aspx?ID=11972

"RDW is being recognized as a global marker of chronic inflammation and oxidative stress." (Impact of Red Blood Cell Distribution Width on Long-Term Mortality in Diabetic Patients After Percutaneous Coronary Intervention, 2013, https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/circj/77/2/77_CJ-12-0730/_pdf)
With your high RDW and low MVP, I wonder if you've noticed any easy-bruising (http://www.ask.com/question/low-mpv-count)? I think you said before that you haven't had any petechia.

Did you get a urinalysis? Given the elevated creatinine, low eGFR and history of kidney stones, that might be useful, though I doubt your physician is concerned by one poor instance for those numbers.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 06:46:52 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1902 on: September 09, 2013, 09:29:24 pm »
This might be a stupid question but I thought I would ask because of the current healing I am going through with this remedy.

How is your intake of bone broth?

I am on day 3 of nothing but bone broth and veggie juice (mainly greens, some carrot) and I have been experiencing quite a few benefit.

I've never done bone broth but used to drink a pint or more of fresh green juice daily for many years during my vegetarian/vegan days.  The long term results were not good.

I'm glad you are finding your bone broth and green juice helpful after 3 days.   The real question is how will you do over the long term of 5, 10, or 30 years.

Lex

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,049
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1903 on: September 09, 2013, 09:49:19 pm »
I'm glad you are finding your bone broth and green juice helpful after 3 days.   The real question is how will you do over the long term of 5, 10, or 30 years.

Well said, I couldn't agree more. I've been unceasingly repeating that short term effects can be very different than long term effects.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1904 on: September 09, 2013, 10:01:17 pm »
...short term effects can be very different than long term effects.

It certainly took me quite a few years of dietary experimenting before I understood this.

Offline paper_clips43

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1905 on: September 10, 2013, 01:45:20 am »
I completely agree that its going to take years to notice the effects of something diet related. Even though I consider myself more sensitive than most I am by no means and exception to this rule.

All that aside can you really deny the fact that the long living cultures around the world, Himalayans, Vilacabamba, and Georgia Russia all have bone broth as a main staple in their diet. It also provides the opposite side of the Amino Acid Spectrum that you can absolutely not get from muscle meat or organs. Collagen and Gelatin have been shown to very healing.
Gnawing on bones.

Offline van

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1906 on: September 10, 2013, 06:47:24 am »
I agree it's got a long successful track record.  I've made it a couple of times, but with each batch I couldn't get past eating a tablespoon before either my mind or my mouth said this stuff is dead.  Maybe if a girlfriend made it, I might get more down.

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1907 on: September 10, 2013, 10:38:40 am »
Danny Roddy thinks, based on Ray Peat, that your past TSH #'s were too high (he reported that around 0.5 is optimal http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/the-myth-of-male-pattern-baldnes) and your CO2 numbers too low. I would have been interested to see your TSH # with the Lugol's therapy.

Low/High as compared to what?  I don't know anyone who eats the way I do and I have no clue as to what the numbers should be based on my particular lifestyle choices.  I suppose I could manipulate the numbers by making different choices as Danny has done, but that defeats my methodology of making a choice and then letting the numbers fall where they may.  Last time I was in contact with Danny he was drinking lots of sugar water and consuming a good bit of caffeine in an effort to get specific numbers for TSH, CO2 and other lab results in line with Ray Peat's theory's.  That is Danny's current methodology and it's not what I'm about.

High RDW with normal MCV is associated with mixed deficiency (Iron + B12 or folate) anemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_blood_cell_distribution_width) and possibly the early stages of deficiency in vitamin B12 plus folic acid (http://www.justanswer.com/medical/4395a-rdw-17-8-mcv-normal-b12-high-iron-saturation-iron-35.html). I noted before that the latter seemed more likely in your case, but your MCV was a touch low-normal in the past. High RDW with low MCV is associated with iron deficiency anemia, which is surprising in your case given the heavy read meat intake. I see the MCV rose in this test.

RDW is increasingly being regarded as an important measure:With your high RDW and low MVP, I wonder if you've noticed any easy-bruising (http://www.ask.com/question/low-mpv-count)?

No easy bruising or any other indications that there are problems.  RDW has consistently been at the high end of the range with MCV at the lower end of the range but both are still within a range that is considered "normal".  Even when one of my lab numbers slips outside the range it is usually by a fraction of a point or two and not grossly one way or the other.  The numbers also move slowly over the years with no wild fluctuations - very different than when I was living a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle when my labs were always all over the map and when something was out of range it was WAY out.

I think you said before that you haven't had any petechia.

None that either my doctor or I am aware of....

Did you get a urinalysis? Given the elevated creatinine, low eGFR and history of kidney stones, that might be useful, though I doubt your physician is concerned by one poor instance for those numbers.

Again, all lab numbers for urinalysis are within acceptable range and there is no pathology that points to getting a more comprehensive analysis.  Kidney stones have not returned since the initial incidences of Nov 2009 and Feb 2010 (one stone each side).

Since the only pathology I'm currently aware of is an enlarging prostate, and that pathology started well before I changed to a paleo lifestyle, can you show where BPH is caused by low MCV, high RDW, low CO2, high creatinine, high TSH  or any of the other things you've mentioned.  I understand that some of these may be ASSOCIATED with BPH, but association is not cause and therefore controlling the lab value won't solve the core issue.  Also, none of my numbers are grossly out of "normal" range so just what numbers should I be shooting for and how do I know that these new numbers are truly any better than the current set of numbers accepted by the medical profession.

There are lots of things associated with pathologies, but few of the associations are core causes, but rather co-symptoms.  I'm not about chasing lots of individual symptoms unless forced to do so.  In the case of BPH I had to deal with the symptom of being unable to urinate by taking medication - this issue was forced.  I've done everything in my knowledge and power to identify the core issue that is causing my prostate to enlarge, so far unsuccessfully.  I'm now to the point where I'm forced to take slightly more drastic measures to deal with the symptoms of BPH. 

If you or anyone else has clear evidence as to the root cause of BPH and know of a specific lifestyle change or protocol that will effectively deal with it, I'd certainly be happy to give it a shot. 

Lex
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:45:39 am by lex_rooker »

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1908 on: September 10, 2013, 11:00:35 am »
All that aside can you really deny the fact that the long living cultures around the world, Himalayans, Vilacabamba, and Georgia Russia all have bone broth as a main staple in their diet.

I'm always skeptical of wonder elixirs like bone broth.  Outside of their native complex environments they seldom perform well.  This makes me ask the question "Can it be proven that it is bone broth alone that makes these cultures long lived and healthy?"  My experience makes me believe that it is the sum of many different parts of their total lifestyle that create the effect, not a single magic elixir like bone broth.

Collagen and Gelatin have been shown to very healing.
Healing what specifically? and has it been shown that these fractionated nutrients are better than the full nutrient complex gained from eating the parts of the animal that these processed nutrients are extracted from? (yes, making bone broth is a modern process unavailable to our paleo ancestors)  I don't make or drink bone broth, but I do eat lots of bone marrow, bone chips, gristle, and all the other offal that these nutrients are made from and is normally discarded by modern meat processors.

For me, making broth adds un-needed complexity to my lifestyle.  It is less time consuming to just to eat all the parts of the animal that contain Collagen and Gelatin raw, than to go to the trouble of boiling these parts to make a broth.  True, I can't eat whole bones for the most part, though I do get bone chips in my meat mix, but then if that were necessary, our species would not have made it this far.  There were no pots and pans in paleo times to boil water to make broth.  Come to think of it, no other animal finds it necessary to boil parts of its food and drink the broth for health.  Makes we wonder why this should be necessary for humans...

Lex
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 11:24:20 am by lex_rooker »

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1909 on: September 10, 2013, 11:21:17 am »
:D Yeah, I'm not a fan of the sugar water/Mexican Coke/OJ plus coffee therapy either (though who knows, I could be misguided about that). I did read somewhere where low CO2 is not good, but whether Danny's target is a good one, I don't know. I agree with you on not using any means necessary just to hit a number.

On the other hand, just because a number is within range or close to it doesn't necessarily mean it's optimal. Lab numbers are based on American averages, which are themselves probably suboptimal to begin with.

Low/High as compared to what?
That's an excellent question. What do you propose as the standard to measure ourselves against? Are American averages the best numbers to use, or should we consider the numbers of other populations?

Quote
I don't know anyone who eats the way I do and I have no clue as to what the numbers should be based on my particular lifestyle choices.
Yeah, Durianrider is a mostly-raw vegan with very different numbers than yours and he says the same sorts of things--that his diet is different, so his numbers are probably OK and just skewed because of his diet, which he claims is healthy. He also says he has no symptoms. It's an interesting contrast. With outlier diets it is indeed difficult to know what the numbers should be.

Congrats on the urinalysis numbers.

Quote
Since the only pathology I'm currently aware of is an enlarging prostate, and that pathology started well before I changed to a paleo lifestyle
Yes, I see it improved and then gradually got worse again, and now is improved again since the iodine. It will be interesting to see what the next number is.

Quote
can you show where BPH is caused by low MCV, high RDW, low CO2, high creatinine, high TSH  or any of the other things you've mentioned.
Nope, I'm not making any assumptions, just asking questions and learning. I'm just not certain that there's nothing else that can be learned or done.

Quote
There are lots of things associated with pathologies, but few of the associations are core causes, but rather co-symptoms.
Yup. I look at my test results more as clues to try to help get a sense of the overall picture than absolute indicators of underlying causes of multiple individual pathologies. Unfortunately, some physicians apparently freak out over individual numbers and want to prescribe drugs at the drop of a hat. Luckily, I only encountered mild pressure to use statins in my case some years ago, which I declined.

Clear evidence seems rare in medicine when it comes to chronic illnesses, unfortunately. And before the advent of modern medicine, people relied more on traditional heuristics than clear evidence. Sometimes both approaches fail. Good luck.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1910 on: September 10, 2013, 11:50:14 am »
On the other hand, just because a number is within range or close to it doesn't necessarily mean it's optimal. Lab numbers are based on American averages, which are themselves probably suboptimal to begin with.
Yup, I agree. 
That's an excellent question. What do you propose as the standard to measure ourselves against? Are American averages the best numbers to use, or should we consider the numbers of other populations?
I don't have a standard.  I just try to make informed and well thought out decisions and let the numbers fall where they may.
Yeah, Durianrider is a mostly-raw vegan with very different numbers than yours and he says the same sorts of things--that his diet is different, so his numbers are probably OK and just skewed because of his diet, which he claims is healthy. He also says he has no symptoms. It's an interesting contrast. With outlier diets it is indeed difficult to know what the numbers should be.
I have come to accept that I have no idea what is right or wrong, (only, what I hope are well reasoned theories) but what I firmly believe is that my body will do the best it can regardless of the choices I make, good or bad. It is my body's response to my choices that create the lab numbers. Since I have no idea what a good number should be, nor do I know if my choices are correct,  I let my body make its decision with out prejudice or intervention.
Yes, I see it improved and then gradually got worse again, and now is improved again since the iodine. It will be interesting to see what the next number is.
I'm not willing to make the leap that it is iodine that is affecting the numbers - even though the effect is small.  Remember I'm taking several supplements as part of the iodine protocol and any one or the combination of all of them could account for these small lab changes.  Or none of them.  Who knows. 
Yup. I look at my test results more as clues to try to help get a sense of the overall picture than absolute indicators of underlying causes of multiple individual pathologies. Unfortunately, some physicians apparently freak out over individual numbers and want to prescribe drugs at the drop of a hat. Luckily, I only encountered mild pressure to use statins in my case some years ago, which I declined.

My doctors push for meds but I'm up front with them and tell them that I will not take them even if they prescribe them.  I also give them my reasoning and of course my overall dietary results rather speak for themselves.

Lex

Offline paper_clips43

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1911 on: September 10, 2013, 11:29:04 pm »
I understand that bone broth is not considered paleo by this rawpaleodietforum standards. Although I have been pondering and I would bet that back in paleo times they would go without animal meat for awhile and resort to spending all day crushing bones into powder and eating that. They probably had much stronger teeth and could actually eat the whole bone. Also I bet wolves eat the whole bone or at least as much as they can.

Its possible that the first non paleo food consumed was bone broth. I bet when fire was discovered the first thing they used it for was bones.

An animal consists of %50 protein from meat and %50 protein from collagen. So potentially we should be consuming the same ratio...

Thats great to hear you you eat lots of bones and bone marrow. Have you ever gone long periods of time where you believe your collagen consumption was equal to your meat consumption?
Gnawing on bones.

Offline van

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1912 on: September 11, 2013, 05:43:13 am »
I used to think that grinding bones up and eating powder was needed.  I had the same argument that early man ground bones on stones etc...    but when you look at the composition of bones, they have very little mg. and mostly ca.  I think it's easy to get an overabundant amount of ca from doing such.  I have never really found the answer, but I suspect that the animals mg. is mostly in the blood.  I don't think there' much mineral concentration in marrow, but yes for the soft boney material at the ends of the bones which early man maybe ate.    I doubt Lex eats or gets that many bone chips in his pet mix,  although I could be wrong.  Maybe they do throw in a few ribs in the grinding process.  A beef rib will mess up most meat grinders, commercial or not. 

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1913 on: September 11, 2013, 07:10:09 am »
Quote
Phylameana lila Desy   
Holistic Healing Guide
http://healing.about.com/od/dietandfitness/a/magnesiumfacts.htm
"About half of your body's magnesium stores are found inside cells of body tissues and organs, and half are combined with calcium and phosphorus in bone. Only 1 percent of the magnesium in your body is found in blood. Your body works very hard to keep blood levels of magnesium constant."

Magnesium basics
http://ckj.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/Suppl_1/i3.full
"About 99% of total body magnesium is located in bone, muscles and non-muscular soft tissue [17] (see also Table 2)."

Bone composition isn’t set in stone. What the animal ate, how it lived, where it lived, the mineral content of whatever it ate, the nutrient density of whatever it ate – these all factor into the composition and content of the bones, joints, and cartilage. The nutrition facts of commercial bone meal marketed as a calcium supplement gives us a general idea of the mineral content (900 mg calcium, 360 mg phosphorus, 9 mg magnesium per serving) of bone stock. That stuff comes from powdered “cattle raised in the United States,” which undoubtedly means corn-fed, nutritionally-deficient cows.
Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cooking-with-bones/#ixzz2eX9vtNmx

Bone Marrow is full of nutrients such as an assortment of minerals (calcium, magnesium, potasium...), collagen, cartilage and fats.
 http://www.fitsyracuse.com/2011/06/bone-marrow-stock.html
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1914 on: September 11, 2013, 10:37:37 am »

    So, where's the mg. (beef) ?   The article does say marrow is 'loaded',  ,,  but how much.   The point was that if we're really looking to balance out our ca./mg.  levels,  how does one do it with eating animals?   I've looked online a couple of times, and never really came up with a part of an animal loaded with mg.  So I guess it's not in the blood after all.  At least, any where as concentrated as ca. is in the bones....

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1915 on: September 11, 2013, 11:31:20 am »
I'll make some wild guesses. I don't have any supporting references, but since bones have the highest concentration of Mg in the body and since animals love to chew large bones, my guess is that the highest concentration of Mg in the bones (or perhaps the highest concentration of edible Mg) is near the surface where it can be gnawed off. Thus, bone chewing would be not just for pleasure, nor just for jaw exercise, but also for Mg nutrition. Also, canids are known to bury bones, where they ferment and become more easily chewed, so that perhaps more of the Mg can be obtained and absorbed. Of course, bones would have been more Mg-rich eons ago when soils were richer in Mg.

There are of course also other sources of Mg, such as green plants, seafoods, sea salts and anadromous fish like salmon, all of which has been mentioned before in the forum. Plus, sacred healing lakes/ponds/springs tended to be rich in Mg and/or sulfur (think epsom salts). Andadromous fish tend to be sacred also, especially the salmon.

In Irish pagan tradition, the salmon was a magical wise being that when consumed could bestow those who ate it with wisdom and the gift of prophecy (foresight). Thousands of years later, scientists rediscovered the brain-boosting powers of wild salmon.

I don't think it's just coincidence that if one reads about the old ways, old myths, etc., that everything seems to fall into place (or maybe I've got it completely wrong ;D ). Not everything old is superstition, foolish barbarity or made-up nonsense. Some of it is effective practices based on time-tested experience. One can also learn useful things by studying wild animals, which the ancients understood and many scientists that observe wild animals have found out.

The modern notion that some seem to have of chewing little or nothing and juicing, blenderizing, grinding or swallowing lots of foods forever, based on bizarre theories, makes the teeth into useless ornaments and makes no sense to me. I can see maybe doing such things when one is seriously ill or underweight or has very poor digestion, but not for the longer term, unless perhaps one is toothless, and even then there are dentures.

"One must attend in medical practice not primarily to plausible theories but to experience combined with reason." - Hippocrates, Precepts
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 12:20:37 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1916 on: September 11, 2013, 01:52:14 pm »
Ah,  I bet you're right, about the mg. being at the outside of the bone,  for it's often said that it's the mg. that gives strength to bones,, and structurally then it would be incorporated towards the outside of the bone.  Good thought.   I supplement with seaweeds,  ocean mins, occasional greens, sea food, pumpkins seeds.. so  tend to think I'm getting enough.  I have wondered how those on Zero carb forums ( Just meat and fat, no organs ) maintain. I have read where they almost all go through severe cramping.   I wonder if the body has the ability to simply hang onto or maybe even recycle it's own minerals when outside sources are severely lacking?  And if so,  I imagine this can happen easier when the body isn't burdened by sugar or insulin spiking carbs upsetting hormone balances. 

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1917 on: September 11, 2013, 10:12:35 pm »
Thats great to hear you you eat lots of bones and bone marrow. Have you ever gone long periods of time where you believe your collagen consumption was equal to your meat consumption?

I have no clue.  I have no way to measure how much collagen vs other protein sources I consume.  Because of the pet food my mix is rather chewy from fairly large amounts of connective tissue as compared to normal ground muscle meats.  Unlike fat, I don't have a way to measure collagen percentage, but it is certainly way higher in the pet food than in commercial ground beef.

Lex

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1918 on: September 11, 2013, 11:06:31 pm »
I still don't understand how collagen is supposed to help the prostate. Am I dumb?  ROFL

Offline paper_clips43

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1919 on: September 12, 2013, 09:50:34 pm »
That I can not answer.

The number one reason I brought this up is because after reading this forum for over a year I have to value the opinion and experience of Lex and a few others. I like to debate my beliefs with those I who respect in order to either strengthen them or disprove them and walk away learning something new.

The second reason I brought this up is because after reading a lot of Lex’s history through his journal I noticed, bone broth, was something that was not mentioned that much, or at least I didn’t read it, and figured it was worth mentioning.

The third reason I brought this up is because it is currently a belief of mine that bone broth is good for me. I have been contemplating how cultures may have eaten nothing but bones for days until killing a fresh animal. The fact that it supplies high levels of gylcine, glutamine, proline, and hydroxyproline and none of which are in meat amazes me and inspires me to continue research it. I bet there is information out there connecting these amino acids to prostate health although I have yet to stumble upon it.
Gnawing on bones.

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1920 on: September 13, 2013, 03:34:33 am »
I had the TUMT procedure yesterday morning around 10am.  All went well.  There was some minor prep work where I was given a muscle relaxer and some ibuprofen as an anti-inflammatory.  They also inserted a catheter and inserted lidocaine into the bladder to numb it and much of the prostate area.  No needles were used for this, they just pushed the lidocaine into the bladder through the catheter.

I then waited about 20 minutes until the meds took affect before they took me into the treatment area.  This is an office procedure so no hospital surgery room was required.  They use the same room for the TUMT treatment that they use for cytoscope exams and other minor procedures.

When they felt I was ready, the urologist came in and did an ultrasound of the prostate through the rectum.  The normal prostate at age 25 has a volume of about 15 cubic centimeters.  The ultrasound showed my prostate to be 68 cubic centimeters – about 4 ½ times the size it was at age 25.  To give you a graphic that may help you understand the sizes, take a regular ¼ lb cube of butter.  Cut off about 1 1/2 tablespoons from one end.  The 1 1/2 tablespoons  represents the size of a normal prostate at age 25.  The remaining 6 1/2 tablespoons is the size of my prostate.

With the ultrasound guiding, the urologist injected (with needles this time) some lidocaine into the major nerves around the prostate and bladder, much as a dentist does in your mouth before drilling.  There was no pain and I didn’t even know he was doing this until he told me, so the lidocaine wash in the bladder did its job.

Once the nerves were numbed the urologist removed the ultrasound probe from the rectum and replaced it with about a 4 inch long temperature sensing probe.  I understand this probe has 5 sensors along its length.  It is also very flexible and maybe the size of your little finger so no discomfort here.

Next the TUMT catheter was inserted through the penis and up into the bladder where a small balloon at the end of the catheter was expanded with water to hold the catheter in position.  No pain but I certainly felt the catheter as it passed the valve into the bladder.  Sorta causes you to involuntarily curl your toes for an instant, then it’s over and you feel nothing.

The TUMT catheter looks like the tenticles of an octopus.  There’s one leg that goes into the bladder to do the work, 2 legs (input/output) that circulate the cooling fluid around the catheter to protect the urethra from excess heat, one that connects to the Urologix Coolwave Thermo Therapy machine, and I think one more but not sure what it’s for.
Finally they pressed some buttons to tell the machine what to do and the machine started clicking and humming as it went through a calibration cycle.  This took about 5 minutes.  Once the calibration cycle was over the machine started the 28 minute treatment cycle which is totally automatic. 

I must admit the treatment is a bit uncomfortable.  Not pain really, but very strong urges to urinate, bladder spasms, and other feelings that are annoying but you can do nothing about.  I was very glad when the 28 minutes was up.

When the treatment was completed, it took about 1 minute to remove the catheter and temperature sensor and I was then taken to a regular exam room.  Here I was given 24 oz of water to drink and container to catch urine.  They want to find out if you can pass urine after the procedure and the amount you are able to release determines if you must go home with a catheter for a few days.  The treatment causes trauma to the prostate and it often swells to the point that no urine can flow and this is what they test for.  The ibuprofen given at the start of the procedure helps some, but in my case it was not enough.  I was only able to pass one ounce of urine over a 1 hour period so in went a catheter.  Within 2 minutes 800ml of urine was drained from my bladder.

After that I was sent home with a prescription for antibiotics and ibuprofen to be taken for 2 weeks, and an appointment was made for next Monday morning to remove the catheter.

I arrived home about noon. The first 9 hours home was not fun.  Bladder spasms every half hour or so that were accompanied by a rather intense burning sensation.  I was ordered to drink lots of water and the resulting urine was pink showing some minor bleeding was going on, but I was warned that this would happen and not to worry unless it persisted for more than 3 days.

The spasms were so annoying that I couldn’t even concentrate on watching TV or working on the computer.  I finally gave up and went to bed around 9pm.  I was afraid that I probably wouldn’t sleep but this was not the case.  Since I was lying down and not moving, the spasms slowed way down and I went to sleep.  I woke up twice during the night with spasms but they passed quickly (maybe 1 or 2 minutes at most) and I fell right back to sleep.

I awoke at 6am with a 3rd mild spasm and decided to get up and start the antibiotic and ibuprofen for the day.  Overall I’m now very comfortable.  I get an occasional spasm but it is mild compared to the ones when I first got home and now they only happen every 3 to 4 hours if that often.

The catheter is left in for several days to allow the swelling in the prostate to reduce to the point that urine will flow reliably.  In my case I go back on Monday so I’ll have the catheter for 5 days.  I was told that 3 to 4 days was the norm, but the weekend gets in the way so I have to wait a couple of extra days.  As long as the spasms don’t return in force I’m fine with this.

I believe that they set the machine to kill about 30% of the tissue inside the prostate.  This dead tissue will be carried away and discarded taking the pressure off the urethra and allow urine to flow more freely.  The whole process takes about 6 months, but I’m told that I should start seeing improvement in 3 to 6 weeks and shortly after that I can discontinue the Doxasozin.  Results should last for 5 years or more after which the procedure can be repeated if necessary.  A friend of mine had this done and he went 10 years before he noticed things slowing down again.

Well that’s it for now.  Will answer questions and post as this adventure continues.

Lexa
   

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1921 on: September 13, 2013, 05:57:33 am »
I hope you heal up well. I hope we can find some better answers for you.

Offline van

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1922 on: September 13, 2013, 06:33:56 am »
wow, I just was going to ask what your favorite percentage mixture is when making pemican ( rendered fat and powdered meat)  I just figured out, well, perfected  a way of rendering at 100-105 f.  If you're interested, I can tell you about it.  I also have a meat grinder that I plan to pulverize the meat drying in the fridge hanging in strips.      And then I read your little office visit.  It's amazing what we can do when we need to.   Sounds like it went as planned and you should be seeing some relief.    Rest well.

Offline lex_rooker

  • Trailblazer
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,231
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1923 on: September 13, 2013, 09:10:39 am »
wow, I just was going to ask what your favorite percentage mixture is when making pemican ( rendered fat and powdered meat)  I just figured out, well, perfected  a way of rendering at 100-105 f.  If you're interested, I can tell you about it.  I also have a meat grinder that I plan to pulverize the meat drying in the fridge hanging in strips.      And then I read your little office visit.  It's amazing what we can do when we need to.   Sounds like it went as planned and you should be seeing some relief.    Rest well.

Van, thanks for your concern.

As for pemmican, I always make it 50-50 by weight. 

I'm surprised that you've found a method to successfully render suet at 100F to 105F.  I've never been able to do this.  First the more saturated fats won't render out as they won't melt at 105F.  Second the temperature is not high enough to remove the water from the fat so what tallow you do get will spoil without refrigeration or freezing.  A few years ago there was a guy on Charles' forum that said he was doing this but he never gave us a sample and he sort of went away after awhile.  I don't know anyone that has been able to successfully fully render beef fat at this low temperature.

Lex

Offline van

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1924 on: September 13, 2013, 09:41:14 am »
I'll let you know if it spoils, but I keep tubs or jars of it in the fridge now.   As far as water left in,,  I do know that any liquid that is apparent will  settle to the bottom of the jars or tub and can be poured out afterwards.  The 'trick' is to put it through a meat grinder with a small sieve.  The fat then comes out like spaghetti.  I then put it in a ss colander with a weight on top suspended over a bowl, in a large pan with either water that I keep at 100 f or whatever works.     Well, you may be right,  maybe only mono or poly fats are dripping out, but I'd bet that saturated is also coming out.   It does taste amazingly good, what ever fat it is.  I like shaving it like parmeson  or melting it and dipping meat in it.  The color is mostly golden yellow, like melted butter. 
    I think the guy on Charles' was me, I got banned for talking about organs and grass fed.  Other than the fact that the forum has about five active members, or so it seems,  I am surprised that Charles hasn't yet run into health problems.  It will be interesting to see in another ten years of eating just walmart meat. 
  Thanks for the 50/50 recommendation,  again, rest well.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk