Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 737949 times)

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Offline van

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1975 on: February 25, 2014, 08:11:22 am »
Nice response Phil..   I think what would prove most valuable is to report back in some months.  This forum is replete  with anecdotal stories about how this food or supplement is the One,, but only time will tell.  Thus if it's still number one on your list ( and you Have had a few others)  let us know.  And I would imagine you might be able to encourage Lex to give it a try with a little more short/long term experience.   And again,  I do think you are on to something.  At least the field of gut bacteria is wide open for discovery.   When you think about how many different microbes early man swallowed; from varying water sources, to eating high meat off of dead carcasses, to the very fact they never washed anything, ate right off the ground, etc....   I'm still convincing myself to go out to wild areas and dig down a foot or two, grab a couple of pounds of dirt, and add water, and strain through a coffee filter.   I saw a doc. called 'Dirt'.  The scientist picked up a handful, and described how many millions if not billions of bacteria, fungi, etc. constituted dirt..   It might be a fascinating experiment to collect dirt/water/strainings from various locals and see what effects on one's gut bio they create.     Also let us know what form of RS you like best, that seems to work best for you.  For I'm probably not going to go out and buy a processed potato starch.   thanks,   Van

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1976 on: February 25, 2014, 03:28:10 pm »
I  recall one article in the Daily Telegraph magazine in which a pop-star mentioned that in his younger days, he was so dirt-poor that he chose to eat only raw potatoes(plus water) for a whole month. He said he nearly died from the experience, no doubt due to the high levels of antinutrients in those potatoes.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1977 on: February 25, 2014, 03:36:45 pm »
How could he do that? Raw potatoes are inedible - except sometimes in minute amounts!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1978 on: February 25, 2014, 09:20:23 pm »
Phil,
The battle of the diet gurus is, if nothing else, amusing to watch.  They all claim they've found the dietary Holy Grail.  The next thing you know, there's a stampede in another direction towards a different cliff, again labeled "the dietary Holy Grail". Years ago it was Ehret, Walker, Bragg, Tobe, Sheldon, and Carrington.  Then came Wigmore, Kulvinskas, and Pritikin.  Shortly followed up by Atkins, Sears, and Diamond.  Then there's the new crop Asprey, Kresser, Moore, Cordain, Taubes, Durant, Sisson, Hunt, Wolf, Jaminet, Devany, and Peat, et al. each with their own biases and agendas.

Ehret championed the mucusless diet, Walker- raw juices, Bragg-apple cider vinegar and fasting, for Sheldon it was cherries, and Carrington thought the perfect food was chocolate.

For Wigmore and Kulvinskas it was wheatgrass juice, rejuvilac, and sprouts.   Pritikin was all about ultra low fat, high carb, moderate protein.

The current crop seems to be all over the map as well, though they seem to have more of a herd mentality.  They all shift direction like a school of fish - almost in unison - but with the occasional straggler that peddles hard to catch up with the pack.

Today's hot topic seems to be "resistant starch" (last week it was "safe starch") and so the drama continues.  Just as all the gurus of the past discovered about their pet beliefs, RS will soon be eclipsed by the next Holy Grail, and relegated to the ash heap of history.  Stay tuned.

Life is short, and I have determined to waste as little of it as possible, for death will overtake each of us soon enough, regardless of what we choose eat.  Dietary wars were waged long before I was born, (even the Bible weighs in on the subject), and will still be raging long after I'm gone.  Diet gurus will come and go as sure and as regularly as Paris fashions.

If you think agonizing over resistant starch (used to be called fiber in the olden days) is a good use of your time, then by all means have at it.  For me, other things are more important.  I think I'll continue to do what works well for me, and spend little of my precious time worrying over the constant hysteria churned up by the gurus.  What time I have left on this earth is better spent in my shop and with family and friends doing the things I love to do. 

Rest assured, if what I'm doing stops working or problems arise, I'll change in a heartbeat. Until then I'm going to burry my head in the dietary sand and ignore all the clatter from the gurus.

Lex

I'm glad someone finally mentioned the peril of the diet gurus.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1979 on: February 25, 2014, 11:24:16 pm »
How could he do that? Raw potatoes are inedible - except sometimes in minute amounts!
He was obviously desperate at the time.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Celeste

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1980 on: February 26, 2014, 12:48:31 am »
I  recall one article in the Daily Telegraph magazine in which a pop-star mentioned that in his younger days, he was so dirt-poor that he chose to eat only raw potatoes(plus water) for a whole month. He said he nearly died from the experience, no doubt due to the high levels of antinutrients in those potatoes.
I remember when I was younger, about 18, I had destroyed my gut bacteria earlier going to a dermatologist who had given me antibiotics and accutane for my skin for awhile. Once off them, I came across a doctor (? can't remember his credentials) who wanted me to eat raw potatoes. He said they were alkalizing. They were awful! I did not try them long. I think they added to my flatulence at the time. My stomach was in knots back then.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1981 on: February 27, 2014, 09:34:00 am »
Thanks Van. I have been experimenting with RS-rich foods for months already and intentionally stayed low key about it until I had tried it for some months, in case the benefits were a temporary fluke or any harms developed. I felt compelled to start reporting about it more assertively once I learned about the increasing seriousness of health problems that chronic LCers have been reporting, sometimes while thinking they were doing well because they were feeling good and had what they thought were good numbers on standard health metrics, and also because I've continued to benefit from RS-rich foods and have been seeing increasingly amazing positive reports from VLC and Paleo dieters who have been expanding their diets to include more prebiotic-rich foods that surpass anything I've seen since Paleo first started becoming popular.

I'll forego responding to other questions and claims in Lex's thread, as he asked in the past that people not use his journal for debating. My intention here wasn't to debate, it was just to share a warning and an idea with Lex.

If anyone has any questions about RS, they can ask them at the VLC warning thread I created or my journal or PM me. I'm not looking to hard sell anyone, just try to answer questions from the truly interested, if I can make the time. I hope people will do some of their own digging before asking me, and it's people's curiosity and open mindedness that I'm hoping to inspire, rather than to become some sort of guru. Lex and Tyler have been warning about the perils of blindly following diet gurus for years (which is something I agree with them on), and I certainly wouldn't want others to blindly do something just because I'm doing it (and in my signature I warn folks not to do that). I selfishly also don't want to end up inundated with questions the way Richard Nikoley and Tatertot Tim have been. :) Richard has even had to stop answering emails, he has gotten so many on RS.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sunsetbreak

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1982 on: May 14, 2014, 03:02:53 pm »
Hi Lex. I am new to the forum and have been skimming this thread today.

A little about me. I'm 38 and generally free of any acute health issues. I'm 6'0 and 144. I haven't ever been to a doctor other than a naturopath about 12 years ago, whom I saw a few times over the course of a year.  I don't have any recent blood work so I can't say much in that regard. I've been doing some home blood sugar tests and blood sugar experiments lately and my blood sugar is remarkable stable, and hardly changes after meals, especially my first meal of the day. Blood sugar pretty much hovers around 92 when I wake up in the morning and one hour and  two hours after breakfast it is still around 92, which I find interesting.  Some times my second or third snack of the day will create a little 25 point spike, and then the rest of the day I hover around 92, even after evening snacks.

I've read that 75-85 is optimal, but I've also heard that people around those levels usually have 40 point spikes or more after eating meals....even after a piece of chocolate.  Seems to me I would rather be around 92 with 10 or 15 point spikes, than be at 82 and have 40 or 50 point spikes.  Your observations?

Also, I have one question about your current prostate challenge...  What is your take on water fasting as relates to acute pain, acute illness, etc? I have a great respect for Herbert Shelton's work and I find fasting to be quite 'efficient' in the treatment of disease(for lack of a better word).

Aloha, Mark

Offline sunsetbreak

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1983 on: May 16, 2014, 03:21:42 am »
FYI, my fasting glucose is 84 on average, but once I eat it rarely drops below 92 during the day. That's probably because I eat frequently.  My diet is 80% raw but it is fairly high in sweet tropical fruits, coconut water, and oranges. I do smoothies with raw grass fed cream. I do salads with raw sheep and goat cheeses and lots of olive oil. I do quinoa with egg yolks and raw butter. I try to eat fat when I have any carbs/sweets fruits. I only eat meat twice a week, usually sashimi or low temp processed buffalo jerky.  I get lots of sun exposure on my skin. I don't exercise formally, but I do spend alot of time in the yard playing with the kids, gardening, walking.

I'm thinking I might be a bit low in animal flesh, but I don't crave it much. Sometimes I start to feel an animal flesh craving coming on and then I eat some raw dulse, and the craving is gone. How does one gauge protein deficiency without relying on cravings alone? Cravings seem like the only accurate measure for me.   If I start to feel even a tiny bit anemic I boost my animal flesh and sometimes I add bone marrows.  I only sleep about 7 hours typically, but when I slightly boost the amount of animal foods in my diet, I sleep more like 8 hours.

Offline sunsetbreak

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1984 on: May 16, 2014, 04:24:54 am »
I think you speak wise words here Lex. We need the nature with all its aspects. I think it is a mistake to believe it is all about foods. It is about context though, seasons... the stuff you write about above.
I slept in a tent last 1,5 months... and I have never slept so well. Tells a lot to me.

I concur. No matter what I do I can't achieve the same sleep quality as when living in a tent.

Offline littleElefant

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1985 on: November 16, 2014, 12:27:37 am »
Hi Lex,

how are you? I wonder why you dont write  here any more. Are you  still on you raw beef diet? How is it going, is your health, everting ok with you? It would be very nice if you could  sheare your  experinces and  keep  us informed :)

Offline Satya

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1986 on: August 27, 2015, 09:21:51 pm »
We need many things in proper balance.

Hi Lex!  Long time.  I do hope you are doing well these days.  You are one of my all time favorite people whom I have yet to meet in person.  And as usual, your words are filled with wisdom and insight.  But never fear, I will not bow down at the altar of your greatness.  I will, however, hope to hear from you again someday.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1987 on: September 25, 2016, 11:49:31 pm »
I get an occasional email request for an update and this week I got three so I thought that it's been awhile since I posted and it's time to check-in and bring everyone up to date.

I'm really busy as I now have 2 wonderful granddaughters ages 3 and 5, still teaching antique clock repair several times a year, and very involved in helping aging neighbors (most in their late 80's and 90's) with their daily struggles.  I travel quite a bit and have converted a small diesel Ram Promaster van (136" wheel base, low roof) into a camper van much like the old Volkswagen Westy's.  Have taken two trips so far this year, one 5,000 mile and one 3,000 mile, to visit friends and relatives. Van is fitted with 600 watts of solar panels and Lithium batteries so have a fridge and freezer and prepare all my own food along the way.

I'm still pretty much eating just raw meat.  On occasion I do add a bit ( a couple of tablespoons) of diced onion or maybe some garlic, a dash of hot sauce now and again, and salt and pepper for flavor and variety, but other than that it is 95+% meat and fat. No grains, or starches, and veggies only when eating out, and then only if that's all that's acceptable on the menu.  Like when friends take me to one of those new-age lunch places where the only meat on the menu is Chicken Caesar Salad. I order the salad with double or triple meat (usually costs a fortune) sans croutons, and throw the salad away - not excited about the lettuce and don't want the soy oil based dressing either.

I changed my meat source a couple of years ago from Slanker's to Marine Sun Farms here in California.  They shipped for free as long as I picked up at the freight terminal which was only 5 miles from my house, so it was a pretty good deal. Unfortunately, sorry to say that Marin Sun Farms has stopped selling to me directly.  I now have to order through one of their local wholesale customers and pay a retail mark-up which adds about $2 per pound to the cost.  Because of this I now only order their "Patty Mix" which is about 25% organ meat for $6/lb (used to cost me $4/lb) because I can't purchase that at the local market.  Walmart now carries grass-fed meat for $6/lb so I purchase my normal ground meat there.  Marin Sun Farms wants $8/lb so no benefit ordering regular ground meat from them. Von's has it for $8 so I'll purchase there in an emergency.  Both Walmart and Von's only offer 15% fat so I have to add butter or other fat to bring the fat content up to snuff - usually about 4 tablespoons per pound. My favorite butter is Kerry Gold which I purchase by the case from Trader Joe's.  As an alternative I may mix a bit of Taco seasoning in the meat and slather with sour cream to raise the fat content when in the mood for a south of the border flavor.  I make sure any seasoning mix I use has no MSG or other badies.

For awhile I was unable to get an organ mix ground meat at all so I had to figure out an alternative.  After a bit of head scratching I came up with the idea of adding sardines packed in olive oil.  You get the whole fish including bones, (only the heads are missing) and they are very rich in Omega-3s so I figured they'd fit the bill.  To this end I add one 3.75 oz can of King Oscar "Tiny Tots" sardines packed in olive oil to one pound of grass-fed ground meat when my organ mix is not available. Kinda adds a Tuna taste to the mix but not bad at all. King Oscar says each tin has 2.4 grams of Omega-3 which is quite a lot.  I purchase these by the case at Walmart for $2.54 per tin which is the best price I've found.  Most markets price them at $3+. Their also very convenient when traveling.

Still only eat one main meal per day at around 2 or 3 in the afternoon. However, I have taken to having a cup of chicken broth in the morning which I enjoy immensely.  I make the chicken broth myself following Stephen Phinney's directions which you can find doing a Google search.  I make a couple of gallons at a time and store it in pint containers which I freeze and then thaw as needed.  To serve, I heat one cup broth with 3-4 tablespoons butter and then mix well with and immersion blender - wonderful.

I still eat between 1800 and 2500 calories per day at 75% to 85% fat. My protein intake is around 80 - 100 gm/day.  I haven't tallied it up, but I think my food costs are still around $10/day. However, it may be closer to $11 or $12 now since my cost for organ mix meat has gone up and sardines are not free either.

One thing I added to my menu this summer was sparking herbal tea.  Since I don't drink sodas and don't want to add artificial sweeteners, sugary fruit juices, or grain heavy beer to my diet, it's a bit of a struggle to find an acceptable alternative.  Enter Celestial Seasonings caffeine free herbal teas.  These things are amazing.  My favorites are Country Peach Passion, Raspberry Zinger, and True Blueberry.

I'll start by using one tea bag in a cup (8oz) of hot water as normal.  Let steep and cool for an hour or so.  Remove tea bag and refrigerate the tea.  When ready to serve, pour over ice, add a dash of lemon juice for tartness, and top off with 4-6 ounces of club soda or seltzer water to add a bit of tingle. Really hits the spot on a hot summer day.

Over the years my doctor became worried that my highly acidic urine would be a problem, especially since I've had a bout of kidney stones in my recent history (2009/2010).  He wanted me to do something to rise my urine ph from 4.5-5.5 to somewhere between 6.0 and 7.0.  I did a bit of research and decided the best paleo friendly approach to do this would be to add some bicarbonate of soda to offset the highly acidic metabolites of the ketogenic diet.  This kills two birds with one stone so to speak.  It adds sodium to my diet which is needed since a ketogenic diet flushes sodium (per Phinney et. al.) and puts me at risk of loosing magnesium and potassium to compensate, and the bicarbonate effectively lowers ph which keeps my doctor happy.  The body manufactures lots of bicarbonate in the pancreas and kidneys so all I'm doing is supplementing what it already creates - hopefully removing a bit of stress on the kidneys and pancreas in the process.

My protocol is to drink a pint (16oz) of water with 1/2 tsp of Arm & Hammer baking soda in the morning upon arising before my morning walk, and again about 12 hours later in the early evening well after my daily meal.  This seems to work like a charm, keeping urine at a ph between 6.0 and 7.0 and is really cheap at less than 2 cents a day.  A one pound box lasts about 2 1/2 months and costs about $1.30 at any supermarket - even cheaper if you purchase in bulk.

EDIT:  I forgot to add my exercise protocol.  I walk about 4-5 miles per day 6 days a week first thing in the early morning (6am).  When I return home (about 7:30am) I follow Paval's "Minimum Kettlebell Protocol" which is a short warm-up followed by 100 swings and 10 Turkish Get Ups.  I do this with a 20kg (44 lb) kettelbell which takes about 30 minutes.  I'm finished with all this foolishness by 8am and ready to face the day.

Hope you find this useful.  Will hang around awhile to answer any questions,

Lex
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 03:55:12 am by lex_rooker »

Offline Celeste

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1988 on: September 26, 2016, 02:24:08 am »
Lex, it is so good to see a post from you and hear what you are up to. :)  So you are pretty flexible, trying new things and changing resources. I myself had been getting meat and butter from a Pennsylvania Amish farmer for years, but that is expensive and have myself looked for more local and cheaper options. I'll have to check out Walmart. I've gotten off the grassfed butter for about a month, but find that it is so hard to get the fat levels needed from just grassfed meat. I tried using grassfed tallow too, that I would put into Puerh tea. I wanted to try just meat and water, so for the last two weeks have been using Costco ribeye. I know it is not grassfed. :-/  Does it really make a difference from what you've learned?

Sounds like you are really enjoying life. Your travels sound fun.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1989 on: September 26, 2016, 03:35:15 am »
HI Celeste!
Yup, flexible is my middle name, but I do try to stick with the foundational principles of a raw meat ketogenic diet, so I can't stray too far from home base.

I'm much less concerned with some of the minutiae than I used to be.  Grass-fed meat has a much better Omega-3/Omega-6/Omega-9 fatty acid profile than its grain-finished counterpart (so say the biochemists) which has almost no Omega-3.  I suppose the question becomes what "better" means.  From a practical standpoint I've just decided to try to cover all the bases.  My thought is that supplementing with sardines, (especially the King Oscar Tiny Tots that have such a high Omega-3 content), sort of mitigates the problem for me.  Maybe not optimal, but better than the alternative, and I do have to function in the real world.

The truth is that I can't tell the difference in my day-to-day health one way or the other when it comes to grass-fed vs grain-fed, from eating one type for a week or a month and then the other.  I'm sure it has a significant effect on long term health, think decades, and formative health, when a child is in the womb and its first dozen years of life, but as for its value at my stage in life, I have to take it on faith and some of the more recent research that says grass-fed does have some beneficial effect at the cellular level.

I think the key to your question is the very last phrase: "...from what you've learned".  The problem is that what we've all "learned" could be hogwash and nonsense. My life is replete with examples of modern medical knowledge that has been proven to be totally wrong.  In defense of the medical profession, the holistic naturopathic healing side hasn't fared any better.  Most of what they've taught for decades is totally wrong as well.  Much of the research is highly biased and most of us don't have the understanding to interpret studies properly anyway.  I do put some faith in Peter at his HyperLipid blog.  He seems a straight shooter and is much better qualified to comment on the efficacy of the various studies than I am.  Even so, you still have to decide if his interpretation is one you wish to put your faith in.

I don't use tallow much anymore except to make pemmican.  Just to much bother to render it.  Easier to purchase grass-fed butter.  Again, it's putting living life above agonizing over every detail of my diet.

I am having fun - probably more fun that I deserve.  Hope you are as well....

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1990 on: September 26, 2016, 06:56:09 am »
Good to hear that you're doing well, Lex. Thanks for the update.

Beef (and other meat and fish) prices have risen quite a bit in my local area in recent years, and organ meats are less abundant. Luckily I had been experimenting and found various plant foods that I handle rather well, so the impact was minor for me.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1991 on: September 26, 2016, 07:30:47 am »
Welcome back Lex, Ill try to not inundate you with too many questions, but there are so few people in this world who have lived for so long on a diet similar to my own, that I would like your take one some of these new theories I've been working on.

Wonder what you think about my quest to go beyond Grass Fed. Especially in the context of getting optimal fats?and overall optimal nutritional balance on a meat based diet? Limited pastures full of cultivated grass which is the bulk of natural beef production, in my view does not provide the best balance of nutrition.

Ive been dissatisfied with many of my local sources of beef which comes from younger cows raised on fescue heavy pasture. Most animals are slaughtered under two years of age and do not have time enough to fully mature. The taste of much of the hay supplemented overgrazed tripe being passed off as grass fed beef is not good. It takes a few years for animals to build up optimal CLA levels even on the best pasture, and I think that most animals brought to market, even if they are pasture raised, may not have the optimal stories of fats and other nutrients

The Sheep I've been eating work well when I can find older fatter animals, but lately Ive exhausted my local flocks of the choicest animals....Im actually Driving to Arizona next month to load up on Desert Range Jojoba fed beef suet and organs, from a ranch that raises the closest thing to wild cattle around. There isn't even any grass out there, just miles of open range desert forage, and the animals arent slaughtered until around ten years old. Its the beef Ive had.

Its too bad the Rancher is so gung ho about being local that he wont ship any out, but perhaps if I could get enough interest I would go down there regularly and buy in bulk and ship some out myself to cover the cost of the trip.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1992 on: September 26, 2016, 07:38:01 am »
I'd consider buying some of the beef from you Derek, if you're game to ship it up north. What do you expect the cost per pound to be? I'd primarily be interested in organs, but would consider buying muscle too of the price were reasonable.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1993 on: September 26, 2016, 07:39:55 am »
Hi PaleoPhil,
Thanks for checking in.  I'd recognize that avatar anywhere!  I've tried to add some plant foods now and again, but I'm so insulin resistant that eating a small salad and a piece of fruit every day will add 10 pounds in less than two weeks.  All those carbs get converted to fat immediately. I find I have to stay under 20-30 grams of carbs per day or the result isn't pretty.  Yes, I could add carbs back in, but I'd have to totally change my dietary protocol so that muscles and other tissues would start preferring glucose again over fatty acids. I'm doing so well where I am that I just keep doing it.

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1994 on: September 26, 2016, 07:46:52 am »
Yup, I didn't expect you to want to change anything. Just letting you know that I have also seen price increases in meats and did feel some of your economic pain for a while, :) especially early on when I was eating more meats. Looks like the increases haven't been bad for you, luckily.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1995 on: September 26, 2016, 08:08:45 am »
Sabertooth,
Hmmmmmmm.  The key to your post is "... getting optimal fats?and overall optimal nutritional balance on a meat based diet?"  I have no idea what "optimal" is for either fats or nutritional balance.  All I can tell you is that my protocol, eating 10%-15% mixed organ meats with the rest being regular ground muscle meats with 80% of calories from fat, seems to be working well for me.  No signs of deficiencies of any kind.  When organ meats aren't available I'm using sardines as described above, and again, no deficiencies have shown up.

As I stated to Celeste, I'm taking the idea that the fatty acid profile in Grass-fed is better than grain-finished meat as an article of faith as I have no direct experience that tells me that it is either correct or incorrect.  I have no way to directly measure what these are doing in my body, and I don't have time to observe the effects of these two profiles across multiple generations (ala Pottenger's Cats).  Enough for me that I feel great and can do the things I want to do, which is usually a great deal more than many of my peers.

As for CLA levels, Jojoba suet, and whether older animals are better than younger animals, unfortunately I'm clueless and have no way of doing any meaningful testing.  My remaining years are short and I choose to spend them on something other than agonizing over things I can do very little about.

Initially I had the same shipping problem as you have with Marin Sun Farms.  I had to drive 13-14 hours round trip to San Francisco and back to buy from them.  Then they decided they wanted to open up the Los Angeles market so they hired a sales/delivery guy down here and sent meat down via refrigerated freight and I got to purchase wholesale as long as I picked my meat up at the freight terminal when the delivery guy showed up.  Now they've gotten too big here and won't sell to me direct even though I order 120 lbs of meat at a time.  I have to go through one of their local wholesale customers who add's on a couple of bucks a pound to receive and hold my unopened boxes of meat for 2 or 3 hours.  Oh well, as I said, life's too short to worry about such things.  Change and adapt.

Lex

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1996 on: September 26, 2016, 09:26:27 am »
I hear you, no worries, hakuna matata,
We all may be dead in just a few short decades,

Its more of an obsession on my part, than anything that drives my curiosity...... being 33 years young, and an intrepid soul I still have the ambition of changing the world in meaningful ways and making a contribution to the advancement of human understanding...be it by tooth and nail, by any means possible. I really feel im onto something big with the beyond grass fed concept and wish to take some of the ground work that people such as yourself have laid out to the next level and onto the world stage.

I think what you have done could be further optimized, though I agree as the state of affairs as they are, such innovations are neither frugal or practical in most peoples circumstances... still if these ends are not pursued by at least a few pioneers, i fear that much of this knowledge will be lost, and future generations of Paleo dieters will be hopelessly lost, mindlessly eating sub optimal  GMO grass fed animals and never knowing their true potential!



A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1997 on: September 26, 2016, 12:30:01 pm »
Sabertooth don't let me dampen your enthusiasm.  I was passionate about my life's work and it served me well for over 40 years.  I'm passionate about the things I do now.  I advise everyone to follow their passion.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "beyond grass-fed". 

I truly have no idea what you mean by optimal fats.  How are they different from the fats in grass-fed meats? (from your wish to go beyond grass-fed you must be referring to something different than fat from grass-fed animals?).

I'm also very suspicious when people talk about "optimal nutritional balance on a meat based diet" since by definition a meat based diet such as I follow is anything but balanced as the term is normally used in nutritional circles.  Again, not sure what you mean here.

I suppose I want to know how what you are working on would be valuable to me. Make my life simpler, fuller, healthier, better.

Thoughts?

Lex

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1998 on: September 28, 2016, 10:34:36 am »
Sabertooth don't let me dampen your enthusiasm.  I was passionate about my life's work and it served me well for over 40 years.  I'm passionate about the things I do now.  I advise everyone to follow their passion.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "beyond grass-fed". 



There has been flashes of insight into this concept over the years which I have not been quite able to fully articulate.

First one must understand that a Protein is not a Protein, a Fat is not a Fat, and a Carb is not a Carb. Not all nutrients are created equal, and there are very important differences between the quality of the proteins and fats generated by Grass fed animals, compared to those fed processed and artificial foods....but lets not stop there..why not go beyond the notion of grass fed...to a place where the animal is entirely emerged in its natural element and given total free right to seek out its own optimal substances, in accord to its innate biological needs.

There is a biological symphony at work in which the micro RNA of the various organisms work their way up the food chain and culminate within the higher evolution of apex organisms within a particular environment.

If the environment is strictly limited to just a few spices of cultivated forage then diversity of elements which provide for the "optimal balance" will not be present, and the essence of life which is dispersed up the food chain will not attain full potential.

Totally wild foraging animals, on open ranges of unadulterated land, in my opinion offer the potential for the optimal nourishment. The animals whom have access to the Garden of Eden quality pastures will assimilate the various elements of that healthy ecosystem into its own tissues, so the actual quality of the total environment gets transferred up the food chain.

Even if it would appear that a meat based diet lacks what "nutritional Science" calls "optimal balance" I claim that if those animals which the meat is sourced are derived from a totally balanced and open ecosystem then their bodies if eaten entirely raw, will transfer those optimal qualities which manifest into being a more optimal synchronicity with the living environment, on multiple levels (Mind Body and Spirit).

By going beyond grassfed I am taking the ideal to the extreme, in order to point out to others interested in attempting this way of life, that all Grass fed is not created equal. Perhaps for the average person your standard grass fed green pasture, offers something that is responsibly balanced and wholesome when compared to the commercial factory farm....but for people who commit themselves to such a diet as ours, perhaps in order to optimally thrive it would be better to go beyond.

This of course is only a hypothesis? Though its based on a profound intuition that is backed up by a common sense view, that the freest and happiest animals from the most pristine and untouched ecosystems ,would be most Ideal sustenance for someone seeking to incorporate those qualities into their being.

In recognition of your own experience, I am not entirely sure if this information would make much difference to you personally, considering you have already been living for years on decent quality animals, and perhaps in a way you have already been going beyond grass fed, by sourcing much of your meat from open range cattle.

My thoughts here are primary to be viewed as food for thought to those who read your journal and may want to experiment with a meat based diet....For it is a strong conviction of mine that if those people dont learn to recon that there are differences in quality, they may simply start eating whatever is at their local market without a clue to the true health of the ecosystem from which the animal came, to their own determent.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 10:53:36 am by sabertooth »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1999 on: September 28, 2016, 05:23:47 pm »
Basically, beyond grassfed is part of the beyond organic movement where domesticated animals are fed on  the foods which they would normally eat in the wild. So grassfed cattle, for example, often do not have much acccess to a wide variety of herbs. Similiarly, chickens on beyond organic farms would have plentiful access to insects, worms and carrion just like wild jungle fowl have etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

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