Trouble in Paradise - leg cramps

[goodsamaritan]

The raypeat.com iron overload is for cooked meat where the iron is transformed from organic nutrient matter back to inorganic iron metal.  Iron supplements are inorganic.

With cramping I would look at dehydration / hydration.  And fantastic hydration is possible with water structure in hydrating fruit like watermelon or melons. (city water just doesn't work) Try a 1 day watermelon feast and see what that does to you.

Or just watermelon breakfast

Couple the dehydration with possible circulation problems.  Try cayenne tinctures temporarily.

You can try massages with ghee.

I would try mineral and energy drops on it like quantum minerals plus drops just to see if it is a mineral deficiency.

[RawZi]

Iron supplements are inorganic.

...

I would try mineral and energy drops on it like quantum minerals plus drops just to see if it is a mineral deficiency.

    What are

quantum minerals plus drops

? 

    Do you have a recipe how to make it?  I don't need it right now, but if I ever get stuck eating vegan style or other inferior food for me.  Soaking raisins and mixing the resultant water with a little unheated honey delivers iron, but I think raisin water is too sweet for me.  I know other herbs that can help with anemias, but no recipe.

   

[wodgina]

Your wheat grass drinking sounds like torture. The things we do to be healthy, I've drunk Hydrogen peroxide in the past, truly revolting. As was my coconut oil detox.

[RawZi]

@wodgina6722 I know, right?  Sixteen ounces is more than anyone I know.  I've eaten bowls of flax seeds ground with soaked prunes and papaya, and fell sick for months.  It was the prunes.  The same with just papaya and flax served some helpful purpose at least.  Beet juice burns me as it goes down.  I don't know how someone imagines plants are antiinflammatory and raw meat not.  They/we have to try it to know different. 

[RawZi]

The things we do to be healthy, I've drunk Hydrogen peroxide in the past, truly revolting. As was my coconut oil detox.

    Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes/ages, the opposite of oxygenating (any raw food I know).  You're lucky you didn't do too much. 

    I'm glad I never drank oil.  Unfortunately I listened to my cat's veterinarian and fed her oil.  She nearly died from it.  He didn't say it should be good quality, but I used only organic cold pressed on her.

[goodsamaritan]

I did not like wheat grass ever in my life.

But when my brother needed liver rebuilding, wheat grass juice worked for him for some time.

[raw]

I did not like wheat grass ever in my life.

But when my brother needed liver rebuilding, wheat grass juice worked for him for some time.

well, one thing is pretty true that anything grows on wealthy soil, that is completely different than anything you compare out there. it is just a miracle food for me. my entire household works i depend on wheat grass. i put the wheat grass into the water to give my toddler a healthy bath, i make for him the toothpaste out of the juice, i put that on my hair, skin. my body feels complete when i drink the pure juice and it is similar to when i eat raw beef. so, this is my best miracle green and i just can't deny it.

[Matt51]

Goodsamaritan,

Are you saying iron is made more, or less, bio-available when meat is cooked?

[Michael]

I'd say wheat grass is Gawd Awful rather than divine.  I did the wheat grass thing for many years and all I got for my trouble was light headed, bloating, and gas....There were no juicers and no wheat grass (wheat is a modern plant) in paleo times.  Something to think about.....

Lex

My experiences are the same.  Like Lex, I had my own full wheatgrass producing 'factory' and was consuming a fresh homemade tray of the stuff per day along with the body-breaking vegan diet.  In my experience, wheatgrass shots prove a useful 'hit' to the poorly fed but have no place in a paleo diet for a whole multitude of reasons.  But, as Andrew said, the things we do to be healthy?!     We're all on our own respective journeys.


Lex, whatever happened to those cramps?!  Did they resolve?  Did you pinpoint it to a particular deficiency or change your diet with beneficial results?

[lex_rooker]

Lex, whatever happened to those cramps?!  Did they resolve?  Did you pinpoint it to a particular deficiency or change your diet with beneficial results?

Nope, never did figure out what caused them.  They've just gone away on their own over time.  Could be that they were just part of my body's reaction as it adapted to my sudden and radical change in diet.  I have't had a cramp in months - can't even remember the last one.

Lex

[Michael]

Nope, never did figure out what caused them.  They've just gone away on their own over time.  Could be that they were just part of my body's reaction as it adapted to my sudden and radical change in diet.  I have't had a cramp in months - can't even remember the last one.

Lex

Glad to hear that!  Do you still use salt with your meals as you started to when the cramps appeared?  One would ordinarily suspect a mineral deficiency and I thought Tyler's point of a mineral deficiency in the soil/grass (perhaps Mg?) in the diet of the beef you regularly consume from Slankers was a valid one.  Did you begin to vary your source, include seafood or make any other changes? 

I've suffered on and off with leg cramps since beginning my RAF adventure in 2001.  The Primal Diet was the worst culprit which definitely makes me think that Ca/Mg are implicated  - particularly as those minerals are used in the contraction/relaxation of muscles.  There were points when consuming vast quantities of raw milk (bad Ca/Mg ratio food!) on the Primal Diet when I cramped so bad in my calves that I was entirely disabled and couldn't walk home (or at all!) when out in the City!

But, I think that your recent bone scan dismisses the possibility of a problem with Ca/Mg ratio or deficiency.

[goodsamaritan]

Goodsamaritan,

Are you saying iron is made more, or less, bio-available when meat is cooked?

It's not just iron, it is all minerals.
raw fruit, raw plant, raw meat have minerals in bio-absorbable form... cooking them turns them back to their inorganic form.

We can't eat iron filings you magnetize in the soil, you need the plants to convert them first so animals and humans can make use of the iron.

Lex, that is probably the best explanation, thanks for the update on this thread as the original poster.

[PaleoPhil]

well, one thing is pretty true that anything grows on wealthy soil, that is completely different than anything you compare out there. it is just a miracle food for me. my entire household works i depend on wheat grass. i put the wheat grass into the water to give my toddler a healthy bath, i make for him the toothpaste out of the juice, i put that on my hair, skin. my body feels complete when i drink the pure juice and it is similar to when i eat raw beef. so, this is my best miracle green and i just can't deny it.

To each their own I suppose. I know someone who drank wheat grass juice despite the fact that it usually made her vomit. When I asked her why she drank it if it made her sick and explained, like Lex did, that it's not Paleo (she was interested in Paleo nutrition), she agreed that it was a good question and stopped drinking it. Her health improved some after she eliminated the wheat grass juice and made some other minor dietary changes based on principles of biologically appropriate foods, and she no longer had to deal with wheat-grass induced vomiting.

[raw]

To each their own I suppose. I know someone who drank wheat grass juice despite the fact that it usually made her vomit. When I asked her why she drank it if it made her sick and explained, like Lex did, that it's not Paleo (she was interested in Paleo nutrition), she agreed that it was a good question and stopped drinking it. Her health improved some after she eliminated the wheat grass juice and made some other minor dietary changes based on principles of biologically appropriate foods, and she no longer had to deal with wheat-grass induced vomiting.

;)i herd  some people at the beginning like that but i never deal with this problem. it is just for medicinal purpose (not to drink more than 5 to 6 oz aday) and for the beginners, for couple of tsps. for me, i've a chronic urinary track  infection and wheat grass always acts like a magic with that. i stop drinking this last entire months and get that problem again. when i buy those wheatgrass from outside they are just disgusting. you can't deny the high brix factor of good soil product. for me i see it works, for my mother also it works, that she can sleep fairly when she continue drinks that. i also think that when cows graze this grass, she gets her full satisfaction of eating grass. i'm not a cow, but i think that if i can handle this taste, than i should take advantage of grazing this too. basically i smash into a stone and chew the grass. i just do n't agree to grow them artificially in the water. i work very hard to get the best product.

[TylerDurden]

I've suffered on and off with leg cramps since beginning my RAF adventure in 2001.  The Primal Diet was the worst culprit which definitely makes me think that Ca/Mg are implicated  - particularly as those minerals are used in the contraction/relaxation of muscles.  There were points when consuming vast quantities of raw milk (bad Ca/Mg ratio food!) on the Primal Diet when I cramped so bad in my calves that I was entirely disabled and couldn't walk home (or at all!) when out in the City!

Yes, I had similiar experiences with leg cramps while consuming vast amounts of raw dairy. Incidentally, if you still get them occasionally, it might be an idea to go in for more omega-3s(the blue ice cod liver oil or krill oil).

[Michael]

Yes, I had similiar experiences with leg cramps while consuming vast amounts of raw dairy. Incidentally, if you still get them occasionally, it might be an idea to go in for more omega-3s(the blue ice cod liver oil or krill oil).

I think the dairy did a real number on us both Tyler!  I can't believe that I fooled myself for so long that all of the extreme symptoms I had from diary consumption - similar to your own - were some kind of 'detox'!!

I'm pleased to say that I no longer suffer with cramps at all.  I do regularly take the Blue Ice fermented unflavoured CLO so perhaps this has been helping.  You use their Krill oil don't you Tyler?  How are you finding it?  I haven't really looked into it - how does it differ from CLO?  Is it just a good Omega 3 source?

[TylerDurden]

I think the dairy did a real number on us both Tyler!  I can't believe that I fooled myself for so long that all of the extreme symptoms I had from diary consumption - similar to your own - were some kind of 'detox'!!

I'm pleased to say that I no longer suffer with cramps at all.  I do regularly take the Blue Ice fermented unflavoured CLO so perhaps this has been helping.  You use their Krill oil don't you Tyler?  How are you finding it?  I haven't really looked into it - how does it differ from CLO?  Is it just a good Omega 3 source?

Well, the krill oil does seem to be more effective than the Blue Ice CLO re improving concentration etc.. I'm impressed as supplements have usually been useless for  me, but the krill oil is cold-extracted etc. , so is better than most.

[Neone]

My partner and I also had leg cramps when we started the diet. My wife grabbed some Mg suppliments for it but I didnt take them, both of our leg cramps went away after a little while, I think it just has something to do with something your body eventually adjusts to.. kind of like how your body will adapt to high/low salt.

They were usually in the morning, where when you wake up and do your yawn/stretch thing, when we would extend our legs down it was like *yaaaawwn---AAAHH!!! MY CALVES!!!" and then it would go away haha.

[van]

Tyler I would love to see where you learned that the Krill oil you take is cold extracted.  I contacted Mercola's Krill oil supplier in Canada and found out they do indeed use heat, but wouldn't tell me how much....

[Michael]

Tyler I would love to see where you learned that the Krill oil you take is cold extracted.  I contacted Mercola's Krill oil supplier in Canada and found out they do indeed use heat, but wouldn't tell me how much....

I'd assumed - without checking - that the krill oil was made by Green Pastures as is the trust worthy FCLO.  I wouldn't trust it now I see that it's a Mercola product, personally.  Have you looked into the production methods involved Tyler?

My partner and I also had leg cramps when we started the diet. My wife grabbed some Mg suppliments for it but I didnt take them, both of our leg cramps went away after a little while, I think it just has something to do with something your body eventually adjusts to.. kind of like how your body will adapt to high/low salt.

They were usually in the morning, where when you wake up and do your yawn/stretch thing, when we would extend our legs down it was like *yaaaawwn---AAAHH!!! MY CALVES!!!" and then it would go away haha.

I know that feeling Neone!    That's interesting to hear the outcome of your accidental experiment.  It's certainly not something I suffer from now either but I suspect dairy was involved for me.

[TylerDurden]

I'd assumed - without checking - that the krill oil was made by Green Pastures as is the trust worthy FCLO.  I wouldn't trust it now I see that it's a Mercola product, personally.  Have you looked into the production methods involved Tyler?

I can see why you might mistrust Mercola's excessive promotions of supplements, but Mercola has built his reputation on providing reasonably high-quality products which is partly why I trust him re this.

As for the krill oil, there are only 2 methods that are ever described as being used:- cold-extraction(used by most) and something called a"2-stage process". I've double-checked by e-mailing the relevant company that produces most of the cold-extracted krill oil. We'll see. I certainly would find it odd if they did use heat, as there's plenty of evidence to show that cold-extraction of oils/fats can be done without the need for any heat. And using the term "cold-extraction" when still using heat would be very dangerous a term, leading to damages in court.

[Michael]

As for the krill oil, there are only 2 methods that are ever described as being used:- cold-extraction(used by most) and something called a"2-stage process". I've double-checked by e-mailing the relevant company that produces most of the cold-extracted krill oil. We'll see. I certainly would find it odd if they did use heat, as there's plenty of evidence to show that cold-extraction of oils/fats can be done without the need for any heat. And using the term "cold-extraction" when still using heat would be very dangerous a term, leading to damages in court.

I hope you get a positive email response from the company Tyler.  Keep us posted.  I am always wary when the term "cold-extraction" is used.  From what I've read before, this is just a marketing term and falls under no appropriate legislation for ensuring the food is produced without heat.  At least, that was my understanding when I looked into the matter previously with regard to olive oils.  The only olive oil i buy specifically states on the tin that it is never heated above 27 C (not that I consume olive oil anymore).  The term "raw" is used in a similar manner and for which there exists no legal definition with regard to food - AFAIK.

[TylerDurden]

I hope you get a positive email response from the company Tyler.  Keep us posted.  I am always wary when the term "cold-extraction" is used.  From what I've read before, this is just a marketing term and falls under no appropriate legislation for ensuring the food is produced without heat.  At least, that was my understanding when I looked into the matter previously with regard to olive oils.  The only olive oil i buy specifically states on the tin that it is never heated above 27 C (not that I consume olive oil anymore).  The term "raw" is used in a similar manner and for which there exists no legal definition with regard to food - AFAIK.

I see what you mean. For example, in UK law, it is legal to call honey raw as long as it's heated "only" to a maximum of 80 degrees Celsius for a very short while. Of course, heating it that far destroys enzymes which rather defeats the purpose. As a result, I've stuck to eating raw honeycomb(in cartons) instead as it's the only way to guarantee rawness 100%(all the liquid so-called raw honeys in the shops would give me  massive hikes in blood-sugar levels unlike with the honeycomb).

[RawZi]

For example, in UK law, it is legal to call honey raw as long as it's heated "only" to a maximum of 80 degrees Celsius for a very short while. Of course, heating it that far destroys enzymes which rather defeats the purpose. As a result, I've stuck to eating raw honeycomb(in cartons) instead as it's the only way to guarantee rawness 100%(all the liquid so-called raw honeys in the shops would give me  massive hikes ...

    We're lucky in the US.  If the honey jar is labeled both unheated, unfiltered and unprocessed, it's almost always good.  I am very sensitive to honey and always hated the taste of it all my life until I tried such labeled honey, which tasted enticing (and usually still does).  There's a brand called Honey Pacifica.  It's stocked at Rawsome in California and also HP can mail order.  If you buy from them ask for the hand packed cold packed honey: http://honeypacifica.com/coldpacked.htm  The others are good too, but this is better.  Even so, I think they may get none of the honey from hives in trees (I love hives naturally occurring in trees), but rather from boxes they must keep. 

http://revver.com/video/211447/raw-honey-that-is-really-raw-not-heated-honey/

    I have bought unheated Amish honey.  Most of the purchases it is excellent quality.  One time it looked heated to me, and made me stink (IMO).  Another time it seemed so much like sugar to me in flavor, smell and even in texture to a degree, that I doubted that ones quality. 

    As far as leg cramps or other foot cramps, I think I got them when I stopped drinking celery juice.  Also, I had started getting them at a time I think I was hyperthyroid.  This was about eighteen years ago.  They are not occurring at any time more recently.