Author Topic: Shocking story  (Read 8996 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Shocking story
« on: December 03, 2009, 06:20:33 pm »
I've just read a news report about a British couple whose child was forced into foster-care because his parents weren't feeding him junk-food:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232611/Mother-boy-snatched-social-workers-refusing-doctors-advice-feed-chocolate-crisps.html?ITO=1490&referrer=yahoo
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 06:35:42 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline raw

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 08:17:04 am »
when i become a mother for the 1st time, i don't really understand very well that in this country those medical docs are completely screwed up for real. in my 1st visit with my little one for check up, i ask her why my child needs to get immunized, the so called doc freaked out hearing from me this. later on when she finds out that i consume raw dairy, she gets completely crazy. so, it is very funny experience. but this woman, so called doctor also forces me to give my child of huge dose of iron  supplement. i deny that and next thing i know she calls the social worker to take away my son from me (she claims that i'm crazy, eating so much raw foods, i don't want to immunize my son or i just ignore to give him iron supplements and bunch of many other things) . anyway, i get my lessons by than and stop going to medical doctor for god sake.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 09:12:16 am »
when i become a mother for the 1st time, i don't really understand very well that in this country those medical docs are completely screwed up for real. in my 1st visit with my little one for check ...

    I was young.  My son's father didn't come with me and my little one to the doctor.  We were so healthy.  Both me and his father were always very slim.  So my son was slim too.  He was so strong, and acquiring all the babies acquire, but much earlier.  Anyway, this slim thing, that's what almost got us.  First they tried to say I had a heart murmur.  But I didn't have one!  Then they realized it's just that they heard my heart more clear than other women's because I had less than 3% body fat.  Then they said "when are you going to quit breast feeding?  He wasn't even six months old, and I only breast fed at home.  I don't know why they asked me that.  Then they told me (without testing me or my milk) that all breast milk has no vitamins, no water, no nothing! 

    They said I had to change immediately to solid food mixed with formula, and measure every drop, and given so much!  They wanted him to gain several pounds in that one week right then, or they said they would shove a tube down his throat to feed him their food. 

    Long story short, I made him gain all the weight they wanted that week.  They were very happy with that, and did not shove a tube down his throat.  But he got allergies right away from that week's diet.  He never had a problem before.  They responded that that wasn't medical.  That allergies were lack of discipline!  For God's sake!  How do you discipline a less than six month old human out of allergies?  They weren't going to tell me.  US medical doctors, most of them are a danger to living beings, and that's it.   
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 10:32:31 am »
I think the laws in your countries are nuts.
Parents should be free to do as they see fit for their kids.

As for those western medical doctors... you got the really bad ones.

The pediatricians in our area are all breast milk supporters.

We have a law that pushes breast milk at birth in all hospitals.

All infant formula boxes and cans have big bold warnings that Breast milk is best for babies and that this is no substitute.. blah blah in 2 languages... and it is illegal to place any baby pictures on the infant formula.

I should take a picture so you can see and push your lawmakers to legislate such.

There is an industry selling malunggay pills, malunggay is a vegetable that enhances breast milk production.

This is all new in the last few years and we thank the lobbyists for doing a good job.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 11:45:18 am »
I've just read a news report about a British couple whose child was forced into foster-care because his parents weren't feeding him junk-food:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232611/Mother-boy-snatched-social-workers-refusing-doctors-advice-feed-chocolate-crisps.html?ITO=1490&referrer=yahoo
A physician also told someone I know to feed her son donuts and other junk food to help him gain weight. Unfortunately, she followed his advice and the boy is a junk food junkie with multiple chronic health problems now.

That mother in the Daily Mail article seems no wiser than her physician, however. She's clearly overweight and the child doesn't look very healthy, so her idea of "healthy food" is probably disastrous.

Raw, are there no naturopaths or functional medicine practitioners or chiropractors in your area? I don't agree with everything they do, but at least they would be able to monitor your health. Do you have any medical equipment at home, such as a blood pressure monitor?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
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Offline raw

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 12:53:30 pm »
dear PaleoPhil, that is so sweet to ask this question. thank you sooo much. after i face that horrible time with that nonsense doctor, i don't have that much choice at that moment. so without wasting any time, i contact a holistic dr. kelvin holder (NJ) and see him and tell him the whole situation. he helps me all the way to close this case. by the way, when those social workers come to my home, they just shock to see my little boy. they say that every home they go before, those kids live in such a misery, but seeing my son they can't believe that doctor's statement. anyway, dr. holder is not so good at the nutrition (he has a nutritionist and i find out that she doesn't posses that much knowledge as i do), but he and his treatment much better than those medical doctors out there. as a second choice, i want to take my son to dr. jeck (he's a monk), very good doctor. he practices ancient Chinese medicine. he never likes to give that much advice on nutrition, but his treatment is remarkably good. so far my little boy is in very good health. he is taking cold bath in this winter, he never has runny nose, eyes are perfectly ocean blue clear , he's eating raw meat twice a day. in his breakfast he consumes 6 raw yolks with some little green juice. he loves fruits, but he barely eat them now. i mean one fruit a week probably, he's learning 4/5 languages at this age 2 and 1/2 yrs.

i don't have any blood pressure monitor at home. i've never experience that nor my husband. but if you refer that, i'll consider to buy it. thanks. 
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Offline Sully

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2009, 07:05:48 am »
Whao! These are some crazy stories. There's no law saying you have to bring your child to the doctors office for checkups is there?

 I wouldn't take my kid (don't have one though) even if he/she had something like a deep cut. I would just stitch that thing myself. When i have a kid, he/she is going to be the most important thing to me in my life.
I will make sure the birth happens at home too.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2009, 08:12:10 am »
dear PaleoPhil, that is so sweet to ask this question. thank you sooo much. after i face that horrible time with that nonsense doctor, i don't have that much choice at that moment. so without wasting any time, i contact a holistic dr. kelvin holder (NJ) and see him and tell him the whole situation. he helps me all the way to close this case. by the way, when those social workers come to my home, they just shock to see my little boy. they say that every home they go before, those kids live in such a misery, but seeing my son they can't believe that doctor's statement. anyway, dr. holder is not so good at the nutrition (he has a nutritionist and i find out that she doesn't posses that much knowledge as i do), but he and his treatment much better than those medical doctors out there. as a second choice, i want to take my son to dr. jeck (he's a monk), very good doctor. he practices ancient Chinese medicine. he never likes to give that much advice on nutrition, but his treatment is remarkably good. so far my little boy is in very good health. he is taking cold bath in this winter, he never has runny nose, eyes are perfectly ocean blue clear , he's eating raw meat twice a day. in his breakfast he consumes 6 raw yolks with some little green juice. he loves fruits, but he barely eat them now. i mean one fruit a week probably, he's learning 4/5 languages at this age 2 and 1/2 yrs.

i don't have any blood pressure monitor at home. i've never experience that nor my husband. but if you refer that, i'll consider to buy it. thanks. 
It's good to hear that your son is doing so well. My favorite physician I've had so far also provided Chinese medicine at his practice, in addition to allopathic, though I never got it from him (I did try acupuncture later--it didn't do anything noticeable for me, but I do know a few people that it helped). I bought a wrist-type of blood pressure monitor in my local drugstore after my dental hygienist started using one and I was pretty impressed with it (my blood pressure had started to go up into the unhealthy range at the time). They are not as accurate as the bicep-type, but if I use it at properly and at different times of the day on multiple days I get a basic idea of where my blood pressure is at. Mine tends to give readings that are a bit higher than the bicep-type.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wodgina

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 11:42:22 am »
    I was young.  My son's father didn't come with me and my little one to the doctor.  We were so healthy.  Both me and his father were always very slim.  So my son was slim too.  He was so strong, and acquiring all the babies acquire, but much earlier.  Anyway, this slim thing, that's what almost got us.  First they tried to say I had a heart murmur.  But I didn't have one!  Then they realized it's just that they heard my heart more clear than other women's because I had less than 3% body fat.  Then they said "when are you going to quit breast feeding?  He wasn't even six months old, and I only breast fed at home.  I don't know why they asked me that.  Then they told me (without testing me or my milk) that all breast milk has no vitamins, no water, no nothing! 
 

We've had the same issue in our family with false heart readings owing to low body fat and being fit. The heart tilts to the right which can be a bad thing but is common in young people and athletes.

Whao! These are some crazy stories. There's no law saying you have to bring your child to the doctors office for checkups is there?

 I wouldn't take my kid (don't have one though) even if he/she had something like a deep cut. I would just stitch that thing myself. When i have a kid, he/she is going to be the most important thing to me in my life.
I will make sure the birth happens at home too.

It's scary that strangers have a say in how we bring up our kids. I would avoid all doctors/dentists/orthodontists/psychologists. I would  probably avoid schooling for the most part too, maybe send them to school part time so they know how to conform but still spend enough time away so they can grow into healthy people.

Sully, you could probably organize it so you could learn how to stitch and basic first aid or if you have a friend who is a nurse you could call them around without sending your kids through the system.

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Offline Sully

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 11:55:35 am »
Yeah when i become a parent I will make sure I'm prepared. i won't be sending my kid to Public schooling either.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 05:10:36 pm »
Whao! These are some crazy stories. There's no law saying you have to bring your child to the doctors office for checkups is there?
No, all I think they legally enforce is a few vaccinations during childhood.

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Offline RawZi

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 05:31:35 pm »
Yeah when i become a parent I will make sure I'm prepared. i won't be sending my kid to Public schooling either.

    I went to breastfeeding support meetings all through my pregnancy.  They warned me that in hospitals when you give birth, they give you "helpful supportive" advice and devices that make you fail at breast feeding.  Btw, although I was in college when I became a parent, I looked more like twelve years old.  So, when I gave birth, before they gave me my baby (they had strapped me down as they did every birthing woman at that hospital and not warned me), the nurse first told me she will show me how to breast feed.  I responded for her to give me privacy because I can nurse, I don't need help.  I felt a little slighted, as animals with much lower IQ's than humans don't have to be shown how to nurse.  If I did it again today, I think I'd let her show me and act like she taught me something.  Who knows?  She may have written down that I must be like an animal because I know how to nurse first time.

    My point is, as long as you aren't letting them inject toxins or what-have-you into your baby, maybe you should let them think they are geniuses.  I have found that doctors can have very dangerous ego problems, and I do act calm and respectful to them.  They like me, until I won't eat their pills.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 08:12:43 pm »
No, all I think they legally enforce is a few vaccinations during childhood.
In Poland it isn't obligatory to let your children be vaccinated. The Doctors usually tell parents that it is irresponsible not to give children vaccinations, but there is no legal enforcement.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2009, 07:33:24 am »
Some very concerning comments here and my thoughts to those who have suffered such bad experiences at the hands of the medical profession.  I'm glad to hear your son is doing well and that the Social Workers are not adding to any pressures, raw.

My own experiences with my 6 month old son may add a little balance to the argument, however.

I am very anti-establishment, anti-medicine, anti-state schooling etc.  I've been prepared for a fight all the way since the birth of my son - and there's certainly been times when I've had to fight already too!!  But, on the whole, I have been pleasantly surprised by the lack of state intervention.

During the initial weeks following his birth we reluctantly agreed to allow the home visits of the state 'health visitor' to check on our son's progress.  We did this purely because we're acutely aware that drawing attention to ourselves by refusing visits is only going to cause problems which could be avoided by using a different strategy.  Myself and my partner both work in the social sector and have had to work with GPs, medical staff, social workers etc so we have an understanding of how these things work.

The health visitor was a young girl who was very friendly and pleasant.  We were firm in our views but armed with knowledge.  We were welcoming and friendly in our approach.  I think these things can make a big difference.  When she enquired about arranging my son's vaccination program I explained to her quite clearly that we were not having him vaccinated and gave her credible and scientific reasons why. To my amazement, she accepted this entirely and we have not had to have a single visit since.  My partner takes my son to the clinic occasionally to be weighed which we do more for our benefit than anything else.  We've had to have no further contact during these 6 months with any health 'professionals' (and have no intention of doing so!).  We've had nobody on our case or monitoring us.  I'll be interested to see if this changes when it becomes apparent that he's been fed raw animal foods!

Similarly, during the pregnancy we were equally upfront with the nurse who my partner had to frequently visit for check-ups etc.  From the very beginning we've been adamant of doing things our way and, I think, if you arm yourself with knowledge and are firm but fair in your approach then trouble can be avoided.

We paid an extortionate amount of money to hire a private midwife to manage my partner throughout the pregnancy, birth and aftercare.  We're not rich by any means but we considered it important enough to invest in this area.  It was the best money I've ever spent!  Despite great efforts, we had complications during our home birth which eventually led to our private midwife calling an ambulance for an emergency visit to the hospital labour ward.  Myself and my partner were devastated as we knew exactly what would be in store there and suddenly our worst nightmare seemed to be coming true!  I was incredibly rude to the innocent ambulance men and annoyed with our lovely midwife as she'd accidentally broken the membrane during an inspection which had led to an excessive drop in my son's heart rate.  As soon as we arrived at the hospital, we were rushed into a clinical setting with my partner strapped to various monitoring machines and a gang of Drs and nurses surrounding her on the bed threatening all kinds of interventions if she hadn't achieved various points during the labour within a certain amount of time.  We were both absolutely deflated and, of course, she was in uncontrollable tears. Not surprisingly, her dilation which had been 9cm hours earlier was now only 5 or 6cm.  Anything to do with the stressful environment do you think?!  Doh?!

Eventually, I used my growing anger and frustration, thankfully, in a controlled manner and basically told the Dr exactly what WE'RE going to do and that SHE will not be dictating events!  I told her that she can forget her time limits.  If things haven't progressed in the next few hours and the baby is in clear distress then, fine, we'll have to go down her road.  Until then, we're doing it our way.  I told them no Dr's or nurses were to come in the room AT ALL.  I got them to bring us a fan and a lamp and we dimmed the lighting.  We put on some classical music and made the environment as conducive to calm and natural birth as possible.  Our private midwife was with us the entire time and with her we delivered my son with no further problems completely naturally with no drugs, no interventions and just hot towels! 

The hospital problems didn't end there unfortunately.  They virtually forced mother and baby to stay in overnight and were continuing to try to control everything.  My partner, of course, was too exhausted to fight but I had no trust in them whatsoever and questioned and argued every request.  It was clear that they absolutely hated me by the time we left!!   :)  Eventually, we escaped unscathed and haven't looked back since.

It's a crying shame that it has to be this way but it's critical that we arm ourselves with knowledge, stand our ground and be strong on all these matters.  We can have things how we want them but we have to be prepared to fight for it!

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2009, 10:15:57 pm »
These horror stories of hospital staff strapping down birthing mothers and creating stressful birth environments bring to mind once again how different the alternatives can be, as here: Orgasmic Birth, http://www.orgasmicbirth.com/
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2009, 10:47:50 pm »
Thanks for sharing Michael.

My brother's wife is giving birth this January so she has been sent to their far off home province where their home birthing and traditional care is superior.
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Offline raw

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2009, 11:42:11 pm »
Thanks for sharing Michael.

My brother's wife is giving birth this January so she has been sent to their far off home province where their home birthing and traditional care is superior.
GS, i also believe in home birthing is the best deal. for example, ancient time most of the women give birth in the jungle naturally,  and probably with least pain or no pain. my experience is completely different. my case was very severe that i get the warning of bleed to death if i give birth at home. so, i get the cesarean baby.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2009, 12:32:20 am »
... jungle naturally,  and probably with least pain or no pain. my experience is completely different. my case was very severe that i get the warning of bleed to death if i give birth at home. so, i get the cesarean baby.

    They were going to cesarean me, without warning.  A member of my obstetrician's staff went against his orders and told me the secret half a month before due date.  We promptly switched insurance to next to nothing, and switched to a hospital that statistically had less cesareans and I managed to avoid the cesarean.  For me too, one of the reasons I was even going to give to birth in a hospital is because after the doctors examined me and did tests, they said I would bleed to death if I gave birth at home.

    They were wrong.  I did bleed from their episiotomy quite a bit; I did not expect so much blood.  There was no other interventions really though, besides monitors and such, nothing they used was necessary and some apparently harmful, but not too bad.  I wasn't given anything for the episiotomy bleeding.  None of us even mentioned it.  Just a lot of bed sheets changed.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 12:38:26 am by RawZi »
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Offline raw

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2009, 06:53:58 am »
GS, i also believe in home birthing is the best deal. for example, ancient time most of the women give birth in the jungle naturally,  and probably with least pain or no pain. my experience is completely different. my case was very severe that i get the warning of bleed to death if i give birth at home. so, i get the cesarean baby.
i'd emergency c-section, my son's born a month earlier from due date. out of the blue, my severe bleeding started middle of the night. i was unconscious and rush to the hospital. before that, they found several complication on my   x-rays. so, for me it's a horrible moment.    :'(
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2009, 07:16:18 am »
i'd emergency c-section, my son's born a month earlier from due date. out of the blue, my severe bleeding started middle of the night. i was unconscious and rush to the hospital. before that, they found several complication on my   x-rays. so, for me it's a horrible moment.    :'(

    I was very lucky.  I never lost consciousness even once in any way.  I gave birth past the due date they calculated.  They were a mess, when I didn't give birth the day they thought, they assumed I was a month less pregnant.  So then, when I was trying to check into the hospital because the contractions were one minute apart, they all tried to force me to not enter the hospital; because I don't scream or cry.  They gave gave me radiography tests numerous times all through the last trimester.

    I'm so sorry for you.  Your husband must have been so scared too.  And your baby must have been skinny and delicate at first.  How was recovery from that ordeal?
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Offline raw

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2009, 10:14:56 am »
some times the truth carries  the great humor!!!  ;D
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Offline raw

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2009, 10:50:33 am »
to michael, in US, the whole system's messed up really bad. unfortunately, so far  i don't know anyone in US who gets lucky like you. take care.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Shocking story
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2009, 02:04:32 am »
to michael, in US, the whole system's messed up really bad. unfortunately, so far  i don't know anyone in US who gets lucky like you. take care.

That's a real shame, raw.  I hope the situation improves for you guys!  Sadly, we're all slowly and passively conceding our liberties.

Thanks for sharing Michael.
My brother's wife is giving birth this January so she has been sent to their far off home province where their home birthing and traditional care is superior.

Glad to hear it gs.  Preparation and self-knowledge is also key in addition to surrounding yourself with the right professionals.  If we hadn't read voraciously on the subject we, too, would've ended up helpless in the hands of the medical establishment.  I'd recommend your brother and his wife does the same.

1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

 

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