Author Topic: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?  (Read 17617 times)

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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2010, 10:09:23 pm »
Hi GS,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_salad

A typical winter day (10% carbs)

- Around noon corn salad or chicory (I grow them myself organically) with a bit garlic and virgin olive oil or the veggies as they are in nature plus one or two avocados (organic if possible) or a handfull of wallnuts or a few apples from my own organically grown trees.
- Around 8 PM fatty mutton shoulder plus a bit liver or 12 oysters plus one hour later very fatty boar ribs or beef.

 In summer more fruit around noon, sometimes only my own cherries or berries in June and less fatty meat in the evening.

I buy occasionally some tropical fruits such as watermelon, papayas or durian (delicious)  

Oh wow, absolutely thrilled and honored with your long term experience.  I'd like to do a japanese bow... bow...

I have got to try corn salad.

Garlic?  I'm a little shy eating garlic, I'm thinking garlic may obliterate my good bacteria.  What's your idea about garlic?
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2010, 12:19:07 am »
As far as I know Iguana is above 50% and feels quite well over a period of more than 20 years....
Thanks for the example. I think a debate over carbs between Iguana at above 50% carbs vs. someone eating 0-20% carbs would be less a case of making mountains out of molehills than a debate between one of us who is doing 0-5% carbs and one who is doing 5-30% carbs, which seems to occur more often. Granted, I think the latter can be informative too and have participated in some, but to get angry and insult the opponent over these minor differences seems out of proportion.

...I'm at a mean of approximately 30% carbs (sometimes less than 10% in winter and more than 50% in summer) over a period of 11 years now and I feel quite well too and got rid of my kidney stones in this way...
Did you find any particular foods to be especially helpful in kidney stone prevention and what were you eating when you were getting them?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 12:47:11 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

alphagruis

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2010, 02:32:31 am »
Oh wow, absolutely thrilled and honored with your long term experience.  I'd like to do a japanese bow... bow...

I have got to try corn salad.

Garlic?  I'm a little shy eating garlic, I'm thinking garlic may obliterate my good bacteria.  What's your idea about garlic?


Garlic or onions, I eat them in tiny quantities only with olives or olive oil, impossible to eat large quantities anyway. In this traditional form I like it very much and I could not observe any evidence that it obliterates good bacteria. It probably rather impairs the growth of bad bacteria.

Did you find any particular foods to be especially helpful in kidney stone prevention and what were you eating when you were getting them?

I don't know actually. I guess that there is not just a specific food that helps but just raw paleo. A RP diet with much less or even more carbs might have worked as well. Apparently the culprit was my previous cooked neolithic diet such as bred or pasta and perhaps cooked fat and meat.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2010, 03:07:56 am »
I found that cutting out gluten was the single biggest factor in clearing up my chronic kidney stone issue, so I can well imagine that bred and pasta might have contributed to yours.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

alphagruis

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2010, 08:10:45 pm »
I found that cutting out gluten was the single biggest factor in clearing up my chronic kidney stone issue, so I can well imagine that bred and pasta might have contributed to yours.

Yes, apparently it turns out that gluten and perhaps other toxins and/or antinutrients in grains and legumes impair kidney function in this way in people with specific genetic backgrounds. Your experience as well as mine and one or two others I've heard of support this idea.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2010, 08:34:26 pm »
Yes, apparently it turns out that gluten and perhaps other toxins and/or antinutrients in grains and legumes impair kidney function in this way in people with specific genetic backgrounds. Your experience as well as mine and one or two others I've heard of support this idea.

Wheat / Gluten is the big bad wolf.

My friend, the best hands on healer I know, Vander Gaditano told me of a 7 year old girl he cured a few months ago.  She was in bad shape, her kidneys were shutting down.  She checked into his healing farm.

There he saw the parents were feeding the sick girl their poison crackers and bread.  He clamped down on the culprits and said he would do all the feeding himself.  In 1 week the girl recovered completely.

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alphagruis

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2010, 11:46:04 pm »
This girl's very rapid recovery is indeed most remarkable, thanks for sharing.

I hope wheat will never become a staple food in your country too, GS.

Rice in Asia or tubers in Africa also make people eventually overweight but seem much less harmful for kidneys and probably other organs.






Offline Nicola

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2010, 07:00:31 pm »
As I mentioned in Tylers journal I have been looking at Dr. Cordains blog and the way he sees things. This got me a little upset again - a new picture...not just meat and fat but plants, fruit, nuts and less fat!

Tyler has often mentioned the "need" for fruit and fruit is healthy as long at it is bio and raw...Goodsamaritan needs fruit for hydration (how can he make up for 3-4 liters of water as Lex seems to need by eating the amount of fruit he mentioned I do not know), energy plus for bowel movements!

Well again...are we all just in the dark, missing something...this is what "The Bear" has to say:

Did I tell you that one of the subjects I specialized in was Anthropology?

You should know the so called "Paleolithic diet" is bogus, as described by its various proponents, like Ray Audette. (He has a severe metabolic problem, by the way and is very underfat and undermuscled). This "paleo" diet is actually early neolithic, not Paleolithic, as there is no evidence whatsoever for any vegetable matter being brought into Paleolithic camps as food. Only animal remains have been found associated with Paleolithic camp digs. True, women most likely ate whatever berries etc., they found, on the spot, but he men and the tribe in general ate meat exclusively.

Paleo means "old"; neo, "new". The old stone age, or Paleolithic comprises most of man's history and evolution. It is characterized by tools made of chipped glass of volcanic origin, the best, and sharpest knives, spear and arrow heads known to science (unfortunately they are brittle). The are the tools of hunters. This period is four million years long. The Neolithic, (new stone age) is the age of the beginnings of agriculture, and it begins with the extensive gathering of plants, the breeding of strains with reduced toxins and the tools of this era were ground rather than chipped, and were very inferior.

Basically, there is a lot of bad food advice in this book (Ray Audette’s “Neanderthin”), and I advise you not to follow his recommendations, especially stay away from high carb foods like nuts and fruit (fruit is the absolutely most fattening of all the carb sources. It is high in fructose, an isomer of glucose which is instantly absorbed from the stomach, and makes your blood sugar skyrocket). The Atkins diet is also very flawed. A "fad" diet of the time, it doesn't work very well. Fat loss stops after a short period on it due to the carbs in it.

Man has NEVER (until the last 4000 years in the west) eaten a high carb diet, and I might point out that "berries", which were always gathered in season, are in very short availability periods.

For hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of years, the Eskimo have eaten no carbs in their diet, simply because there were none available. They lived to advanced ages near 100 years if they didn't die from accident or had been exposed to too many bouts of starvation, or developed too heavy an infestation of trichinosis, (common in the meat of arctic bears, wolves and foxes). There is NOTHING wrong with this diet. No matter what anyone says, they are quite simply wrong. Only the Eskimos raised with a zero-carb diet have no damage in those arteries.

I don't care what some idiot (friend or not) who wants to promote a vegetarian diet says, he cannot alter the facts. North American Indians were mostly exclusively meat eaters with only two or three groups cultivating some maize , and one group in Ca who were 50% veggie eaters (a weak tribe which was overrun and extinguished in the eighteenth century). The destruction of the bison herds nearly starved the plains Indians to extinction, as they had no other food.
Thoughts are needed
Nicola

Offline roony

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2010, 08:10:36 pm »
This girl's very rapid recovery is indeed most remarkable, thanks for sharing.

I hope wheat will never become a staple food in your country too, GS.

Rice in Asia or tubers in Africa also make people eventually overweight but seem much less harmful for kidneys and probably other organs.


Also from Cordain ...
Loren Cordain: Wheat, rye, barley, and perhaps oats are problematical for individuals with celiac disease. Wheat seems to be associated with many auto-immune diseases.

Ironically, whole grain cereals (which are thought to be more healthful than refined cereals because of their greater nutrient and fiber content) have a greater potential to disrupt mineral metabolism because of their higher phytate and anti-nutrient content.

Although high grain cereals intrinsically contain higher nutrient levels than do refined cereal grains, the biological availability of nutrients in whole grain cereals remains paradoxically low because of their high anti-nutrient content.

On the plus side, whole grain cereals, because of their high fiber content tend to have superior glycemic indices than do their refined counterparts. Obviously, low to moderate amounts of cereal grains in the diet presents little or no health problems to most people. The majority of the grain products consumed in this country are refined, and consequently many of the anti-nutrients are milled out.

Robert Crayhon: Such as the bran?

Loren Cordain: Yes, exactly. There's a tradeoff. Milling takes out the anti-nutrients, but it also lowers the levels of vitamins and minerals.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2010, 08:47:28 pm »
This girl's very rapid recovery is indeed most remarkable, thanks for sharing.

I hope wheat will never become a staple food in your country too, GS.

Rice in Asia or tubers in Africa also make people eventually overweight but seem much less harmful for kidneys and probably other organs.


Wheat is already a staple food in my country. Bread, noodles, pasta, crackers, etc.

My family is almost paleo diet save for white rice... which I hope will eventually fall as well.
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carnivore

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2010, 09:59:57 pm »
high carb foods like nuts and fruit (fruit is the absolutely most fattening of all the carb sources. It is high in fructose, an isomer of glucose which is instantly absorbed from the stomach, and makes your blood sugar skyrocket).

It is a well-known fact that frutarian are all obese  :P
Fructose does not exist alone in natural food. In fruits, fructose naturally form a good balance with glucose and each follows a different metabolic pathway. So it is a non sens to talk about fructose alone.
Carbs, like protein, can make your blood sugar skyrocket only if you overeat them.

Offline roony

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2010, 10:22:02 pm »
It is a well-known fact that frutarian are all obese  :P
Fructose does not exist alone in natural food. In fruits, fructose naturally form a good balance with glucose and each follows a different metabolic pathway. So it is a non sens to talk about fructose alone.
Carbs, like protein, can make your blood sugar skyrocket only if you overeat them.

Non sens

Depends on your body chemistry make up, as Cordain points out, ALL fructose & carbs will raise your blood sugar levels, how high depends on how poor your immune system functions, ie your insulin response & your resistance


How effectively you dampen or absorb the results of those blood sugar levels, is down to the individual

Offline jessica

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2010, 10:22:56 pm »
are "anti nutrients' really something to worry about?
i know that in cereal grains, because they have so many other disturbing attributes, it is another clear reason to abstain.......
however, isnt calcium an inhibitor to iron absorbtion, thus kind of an "anti nutrient"?
should we be worried about calcium? should we be worried about iron?
i think a lot of our health problems and the idea that any diet may lead to "disorder" is that we questions and dissect until we only trust "xyz"-andrevonderpltaz.com to tell us how we should feel

William

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2010, 11:31:07 pm »
As I mentioned in Tylers journal I have been looking at Dr. Cordains blog and the way he sees things. This got me a little upset again - a new picture...not just meat and fat but plants, fruit, nuts and less fat!

 Thoughts are needed


L. Cordain is a troll, and his so-called paleolithic diet is neolithic, and designed to comfort those addicted to carbohydrates.
Bear has it far more right than wrong.

carnivore

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2010, 11:50:35 pm »
Depends on your body chemistry make up, as Cordain points out, ALL fructose & carbs will raise your blood sugar levels, how high depends on how poor your immune system functions, ie your insulin response & your resistance

and how much you eat of course.

carnivore

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2010, 12:07:12 am »
are "anti nutrients' really something to worry about?
i know that in cereal grains, because they have so many other disturbing attributes, it is another clear reason to abstain.......
however, isnt calcium an inhibitor to iron absorbtion, thus kind of an "anti nutrient"?
should we be worried about calcium? should we be worried about iron?
i think a lot of our health problems and the idea that any diet may lead to "disorder" is that we questions and dissect until we only trust "xyz"-andrevonderpltaz.com to tell us how we should feel

It depends on your health status. Some people can handle antinutrients better than others. People with compromised health do better avoiding them as much as possible (but they are everywhere, even in meat...)

alphagruis

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2010, 12:18:43 am »
Wheat is already a staple food in my country. Bread, noodles, pasta, crackers, etc.

My family is almost paleo diet save for white rice... which I hope will eventually fall as well.

Friends from Cameroun told me recently that wheat is also becoming a staple food in African cities, replacing progressively the traditional apparently less toxic tubers.

A very sad situation. Huge suffering ahead.


Offline roony

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2010, 12:33:20 am »
L. Cordain is a troll, and his so-called paleolithic diet is neolithic, and designed to comfort those addicted to carbohydrates.
Bear has it far more right than wrong.

Cordain promotes a high fat diet, he doesnt promote fruit & nuts or carbs ...

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2010, 02:47:27 am »
... Cordain: Wheat, rye, barley, and perhaps oats are problematical for individuals with celiac disease. Wheat seems to be associated with many auto-immune diseases.

Ironically, whole grain cereals (which are thought to be more healthful than refined cereals because of their greater nutrient and fiber content) have a greater potential to disrupt mineral metabolism because of their higher phytate and anti-nutrient content.

Although high grain cereals intrinsically contain higher nutrient levels than do refined cereal grains, the biological availability of nutrients in whole grain cereals remains paradoxically low because of their high anti-nutrient content.

... The majority of the grain products consumed in this country are refined, and consequently many of the anti-nutrients are milled out.

Robert Crayhon: Such as the bran?

Loren Cordain: Yes, exactly. ...

    Even my son who will not touch meat nor egg nor fish says that the only good whole grain fiber does is absorb fats, which is a good thing if the fats the people eat are of poor quality.  He eats high quality fat, so he pretty much avoids most fiber, especially grain fiber.  He's been on both sides of the coin, and the fat side heals.
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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2010, 06:35:07 am »
Cordain promotes a high fat diet, he doesnt promote fruit & nuts or carbs ...

Whaaat? The low fat guru has seen the light, and gone high fat?
He does push carbs.

You need a url for that whopper.

Offline roony

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Re: Paleo - just a nother eating disorder?
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2010, 11:14:41 am »
Whaaat? The low fat guru has seen the light, and gone high fat?
He does push carbs.

You need a url for that whopper.

All his interviews on Mercola, are low carb

 

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