Author Topic: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?  (Read 10863 times)

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Offline pc701

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2010, 12:51:03 pm »
yes i have not touched any animal foods for the last 2 or 3 days, i am eating just a little fruits and vegetable juice, i have considered fasting and I experienced it as beneficial for me in the past.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2010, 01:34:03 pm »
I think  including animal protein in a diet worsens kidney problems, doesnt solve or help them.
Are you saying that any animal protein at all is bad for all people?

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Whatever, all i know is that if my dark eye circles(which are just barely visible)get completely removed by lessening or even removing animal protein from my diet, then we will all know now the possible dangers of excess animal food consumption.

...for you.

From what I can see RPD is not about one single, precise shoe fits all. It's about finding what works for you as an individual while using a rough Paleo metabolic template as a clue-provider rather than a final, absolute answer. Even if it turns out that we are all biologically just omnivores or just facultative carnivores, there is a wide range of possible diets within those categories.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 01:39:07 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline miles

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2010, 01:39:06 pm »
pc707, as we were under evolutionary pressure, animals were what we ate. There is no food were are better adapted to than raw animals.

However, this is a general statement to counter yours that: 'we will all know now the possible dangers of excess animal food consumption.' Based on the results of one observation of yours. If you are talking mass-wise, then excess consumption of animals could be negative. If you are talking proportions, then I don't see how that could be the case except in relation to water.
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Offline pc701

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2010, 02:21:15 pm »
No i am not saying any animal protein is bad for people. I say that if one has some kidney problems then your probably not going to cure the person using raw meat or high amounts of raw meat. rather, your probably going to heal it through a diet low in protein and most likely raw vegan/jucing. If i 100% remove my dark eye cirlces through limiting raw meat, well then i guess that can prove to some extent that excess animal protein  could be harmful to some.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2010, 09:37:42 pm »
Optimal Diet of Kwasniewski is quite low-protein, low-carb, but high-fat.
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Offline pc701

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2010, 03:26:18 am »
Is it possible that some people cannot digest the proteins from raw meat and therefore the undigested proteins can cause problems on the kidneys? This may very well be the case and a  good reason why all societies cook their meats. This could explain I think why more than a few have kidney related problems. I think Yuri may have a point regarding his last posts that the stomach acid denatures the proteins as does cooking raw meat so the proteins can be fully digested.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2010, 03:56:25 am »
This may very well be the case and a  good reason why all societies cook their meats. This could explain I think why more than a few have kidney related problems.  
A plethora of those people have got some kidney problems. Go to the hospital and ask a nephrologist.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline pc701

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2010, 04:07:49 am »
I am 100% sure that I have some kidney issues, i even had signs of it before i started raw paleo/raw meats. But i think there have been even more signs showing up  that i have gotten once eating raw meats/it has gotten worse. Can anyone suggest to me what will be helpful/what foods to eat? Right now i am only eating fruits honey and some veg juice. I know that some people have healed their kidney problems through a raw vegan diet. Any specific food that might help the most? thanks.

Offline miles

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2010, 04:16:30 am »
I don't know about the Kidneys, but sometimes if certain bacteria like e-coli survive the stomach and get in to the intestines they can damage the adjoining organs. I guess that's one reason to make sure you only eat when you've got plenty of stomach acid?
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2010, 04:58:26 am »
I am 100% sure that I have some kidney issues
If you think so than you've got to go to some good doctor and make thorough diagnostics.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
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Offline pc701

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2010, 05:15:56 am »
The doctors are only going to suscribe some pills, id rather heal it through foods. I believe I have all the symptoms of kidney related problems.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2010, 05:25:41 am »
The doctors are only going to suscribe some pills, id rather heal it through foods. I believe I have all the symptoms of kidney related problems.  
I didn't say about avarage doctor but about very good specialist, who would make complete diagnostics. Than you'll know for sure what is wrong with your kidneys.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2010, 07:20:31 am »
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to go to a doc and make sure you haven't got a urinary tract infection or kidney disease, to be on the safe side. When I was still eating wheat, dairy, etc., I put off going to the doc once, not knowing I had a UTI (probably with a small kidney stone--wheat was the food that really brought them on for me), and I became extremely ill and my temp went up to 104F. Luckily, my fever broke quickly after that, but I probably could have done some permanent damage if it had continued or worsened.

I don't think all people need to eat lots of plant foods or cook their meats to avoid kidney stones (the Stone Agers and traditional Inuit did not have high rates of kidney stones and no other traditional Arctic hunting peoples have been reported to have high kidney stone rates until AFTER they adopted a modern, more thoroughly processed diet). As I've reported many times now, I found loads of info pointing to the benefits of water (especially Mg-rich mineral water) and a magnesium-rich diet (seafood, seaweed, flesh and eggs from animals fed on magnesium-rich pastures, avoiding sugar, grains and linoleic oils, etc.) for preventing kidney stones (though it may not be enough to repair the damage done from years of a Mg-deficient diet, GI damage, etc.). Americans were ingesting around 500 mg of magnesium per day in 1900 and are now down below 300 mg and eating grain and milk products that deplete Mg levels in the body and/or contain too much poorly-absorbed calcium. (see http://www.naturalnews.com/023199.html, http://onlygrassfed.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=29, http://www.bestgrassfedbeef.com/health-benefits.html, etc.)

What one rarely sees mentioned when people write about ZCers getting kidney stones, is that Lex was intentionally restricting water before he got his, and he is probably especially prone to them (he has a family history of them) and many ZCers eat grainfed meats that are lower in Mg and avoid more Mg-rich flesh from pasture-fed organs and eggs. I have a history of Mg deficiency symptoms that improve with Mg replacements, so I continue to take some (stopping them cold turkey brought back some mild symptoms), though at a lower (and gradually decreasing) dose than before (my Mg-deficiency symptoms had been increasing while I had been eating significant plant carbs). I think the problem that ZCers and carnivores face is that we know very little about this WOE, so we aren't aware of things like that the traditional facultatively carnivorous Inuit diet was rich in Mg and included enormous quantities of water (be wary of water intoxication, however).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline kurite

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Re: Has anyone gone from raw paleo back to sad diets?
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2010, 07:50:09 am »
Read up on watermelons I read somewhere they're easy on the kidneys and some people eat nothing but watermelon (watermelon fast) for kidney problems.
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