Author Topic: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:  (Read 21465 times)

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Offline pioneer

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2010, 11:06:42 am »
LOL

I don't think it's estrogen, I think it's post-WWII (in USA at least). Now we have to be EVERYTHING!  -X

I think it is both excess estrogen and working two jobs, one at work and one at home. But that doesnt have me convinced. I know many women (including my two sisters) who do housework and work out of the home who dont bitch about it, so what explains that? I think it is all your personality along with estrogen.
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Offline pioneer

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2010, 11:13:55 am »

The men who get excess estrogen do undergo some type of wussification


Yeah, and its not always even just cause estrogen, its how they're brought up. Women, you can agree with me on this, doesnt it seem like men today dont accept any accountability or responsibility for their actions? To me that is like being the biggest pussy ever. I mean if a man cannot take care of their own young, or leaves a pregnant woman and runs away, they are just a bitch. But its not only that, that male drive to succeed and accomplish is diminishing, I think estrogen has alot to do with this, along with lack of parent influence. But again, I must say, a man is only a man if he can accept responsibility for his own actions and make things right, something many forget.
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Offline nicole

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2010, 11:19:18 am »
Yup, alot of the vegans are lesbians and gay and thats just a fact that I have noticed.
I actually prefer the authoritative type of man, they're hotter.
Give it to us raw, and wriggling. You keep nasty chips.

Offline Ioanna

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2010, 11:52:14 am »
I think it is both excess estrogen and working two jobs, one at work and one at home. But that doesnt have me convinced. I know many women (including my two sisters) who do housework and work out of the home who dont bitch about it, so what explains that?

ummmmm, probably some jackass husband!  but let's just keep blaming women and calling them bitches, I am sure they (we) all have attitude problems that come solely from within. good lord!

Offline wodgina

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2010, 12:00:23 pm »
Umm but your not a bitch?

How come women marry jackasses? there's plenty of nice (boring) good guys who will treat them like princess's.

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

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Offline Ioanna

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2010, 12:45:51 pm »
Umm but your not a bitch?


lol, is this a question or a statement?  I'm actually very sweet!, guys fall for me very fast, but I haven't found my Mr. Perfect. But I'm not a pushover either (and I so used to be!).


How come women marry jackasses? there's plenty of nice (boring) good guys who will treat them like princess's.


No idea, that's not for me.    I'm so dismissive of girls (as friends) and guys (as friends or more) who are into that.  I'm not trying to change anybody, so if he's not for me then I move on.  I guess the same reason some men marry ridiculous women. 

I don't think nice = boring at all!  I want to find my best friend (cliche?). That makes EVERYTHING so much funner! I want to find someone who will treat me like a princess.. I am not sure any know how to do that?.. they can't 'wine and dine' me and I'm not impressed with anything material.  If he'd only teach me how to surf!, lol :) 
 

Offline cliff

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2010, 01:05:45 pm »
male drive to succeed and accomplish is diminishing

I felt my male drive diminishing on a vegan diet after being on it for approximately 2 years.  I didn't know how to explain but I felt different wanting to do things but not having much drive and at the time I never connected the vegan aspect.  The first morning after I ate meat I literally jumped up out of bed ready to go for "the hunt". 

Good thing I got out before any serious deficiencies manifested :P

Offline pioneer

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2010, 01:42:56 pm »
but let's just keep blaming women and calling them bitches,

If you reread my post, I never called women bitches, I said, that there are so many women who dont complain about their workload so modern workload cannot explain the sole reason why women are more irritable. I basically meant to say it is both a factor of estrogen and more work load that causes depression and irritability in women. In essence I was agreeing with you so no need to get angry.
Another thing that explains the masculinity of females nowadays is the feminist movement. See, some extreme feminists want to believe that they can do anything men can do, so they act like men to the point where they just turn into bitches. Both women and men need to at least realize the physical differences between. Yeah, I know it sucks women, we men are stronger than you physically, but so what? You women can do what us men could never do- give life. That is the biggest honor of all, so why do so many women feel that they need to prove themselves?

As a matter of fact, I suspect that women were meant to actually be smarter than men. Im not positive about this, but from a paleo perspective, women were the ones doing all the thinking, being the gatherers, the fishers, the farmers. All that men had to do was hunt pretty much. To bring home the bacon paleo style. By the way, women are the best farmers ever. Back in the day, women did all the farming, and beautifully at that. Agriculture started to suck when men took over, probably because men give into greed easier.

Either way though, both men and women must agree, excess estrogen sucks. They always call it a female hormone and I hate that. Hormones are hormones period. Women, you want high progesterone, and men you want high testosterone period... Keeping estrogen normalized is so important.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2010, 02:27:26 pm »
Hormones were designed by nature as a way to control and modulate all of the bodys' functions, They are omnipresent in all of animal life.

The balance of hormones are so delicate that effects of hormone disrupting chemicals can be measured in parts per billion.

IT is obvious that the average person is being completely besieged by not only plant estrogen's, but also hormone disrupting pesticides, plastics, detergents,birth control,antibiotics,etc.

So if the women become bitchy man haters I try to have compassion
And if the men run off to brokeback mountain then I hope they find love.

I went to a health and rejuvenation clinic and had my testosterone tested and it was about 500,
The man who runs the place said it was Ideal to keep it over 750. So I was in normal range according to the medical charts, but far from the optimal level.

I haven't been tested recently but I can feel such a great improvement in all aspects of libido,motivation to be a better father, ability to maintain jealous control over the woman.

 What exactly does 'authoritative' mean?  You're not being a jerk are you?? [/b]

I have been called a jackass more times than I can count[I consider it a badge of honor}
I have called My beloved one a bitch more times than I can count(I love my bitchy bitch)

Crazy is the price of admission for this wild ride


Authoritative may not be the best word, she calls it being a pompous ass, what ever it is I love it.

It seems to be a symptom of reaching full rut.
(yea Haw)

« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 04:56:42 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2010, 05:57:57 pm »
ummmmm, probably some jackass husband!  but let's just keep blaming women and calling them bitches, I am sure they (we) all have attitude problems that come solely from within. good lord!
You know, generally speaking, I have usually been always strongly in favour re male-related issues , but, having read that ghastly "women" thread etc.,  I have to admit that I now do have serious sympathies towards you and other female members as regards all this ridiculous  female-bashing on this board.
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Offline wodgina

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2010, 06:35:51 pm »
lol, is this a question or a statement?
 

ummm



I don't think nice = boring at all!  I want to find my best friend (cliche?). That makes EVERYTHING so much funner! I want to find someone who will treat me like a princess.. I am not sure any know how to do that?.. they can't 'wine and dine' me and I'm not impressed with anything material.  If he'd only teach me how to surf!, lol :)  
 

umm good luck with that... ;D

now back to reality















« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 06:46:18 pm by wodgina »
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Offline miles

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2010, 06:41:34 pm »
As a matter of fact, I suspect that women were meant to actually be smarter than men. Im not positive about this, but from a paleo perspective, women were the ones doing all the thinking, being the gatherers, the fishers, the farmers. All that men had to do was hunt pretty much. To bring home the bacon paleo style. By the way, women are the best farmers ever. Back in the day, women did all the farming, and beautifully at that. Agriculture started to suck when men took over, probably because men give into greed easier.

You sound like a bit of a woman to me.
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Offline wodgina

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2010, 06:54:50 pm »
Men are smarter more creative.

Think of all the art created by men, from poetry to love ballads, paintings, literature.

Name something that a woman has invented. 99% of all inventions are from men.

Women are better at somethings like nuturing and supporting their men so they can be successful.
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Offline kurite

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2010, 07:00:42 pm »
Men are smarter more creative.

Think of all the art created by men, from poetry to love ballads, paintings, literature.

Name something that a woman has invented. 99% of all inventions are from men.

Women are better at somethings like nuturing and supporting their men so they can be successful.
I cant really deny the truth about the 99% statistic but at the same time women have not had nearly as much time to be creative or as educated as men.
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Offline Nation

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2010, 07:30:49 pm »
Men are smarter more creative.

Think of all the art created by men, from poetry to love ballads, paintings, literature.

Name something that a woman has invented. 99% of all inventions are from men.

Women are better at somethings like nuturing and supporting their men so they can be successful.

That's not fair, women have been treated like dog shit since the dawn of time, until recently. Go to a medical school and check out the ratio of men/women, you're in a for a surprise. It is the same in many other fields, women are taking over!

Offline wodgina

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2010, 07:58:40 pm »
That's not fair, women have been treated like dog shit since the dawn of time, until recently. Go to a medical school and check out the ratio of men/women, you're in a for a surprise. It is the same in many other fields, women are taking over!

I think it's worse now than ever, women are expected to go to work fulltime so to pay off huge houses and SUV's  instead of chilling at home raising/enjoying their own kids. OK women are pretty close intellectually but not as driven or creative, I'm sure you can agree with me on that.

I cant really deny the truth about the 99% statistic but at the same time women have not had nearly as much time to be creative or as educated as men.

The 99% stat was a guess but you would of thought the since feminism women would of caught up just a little bit?

I'm being realistic. I love women to bits, I'm all for women's rights. I believe women should be able to spend as much time as possible raising their children instead of donning a business skirt and dealing with shitty insecure bosses and coffee breath.
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Offline djr_81

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2010, 07:59:34 pm »
umm good luck with that... ;D

now back to reality

So how badly did you do in love live when you played nice that you're so jaded to it now? :P

There are plenty of guys out there who can offer Ioanna what she's looking for while still being assertive & confident males. I personally do it every day with my wife.
In my experience someone who can be softer with his wife/girlfriend while being a powerful male with society at large is a more developed male. The women who can't appreciate a guy who isn't an asshole 24/7 aren't worth it IMO. To each his own though.

Ioanna, keep on looking. I'm sure you'll find your guy someday. ;)
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Offline Ioanna

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2010, 08:34:34 pm »
ouch wodg... I'm actually rather shy, quiet, and sensitive person... I don't fall down though. 

Women are better at somethings like nuturing and supporting their men so they can be successful.

Well, at least we can agree on one thing: Behind every successful man is a WOMAN. Behind every successful woman is usually just herself (that's with a kid or two and a husband to raise).


So how badly did you do in love live when you played nice that you're so jaded to it now? :P


I don't do badly at all, I attract the right men. I've been asked for marriage by several since high school graduation.  I never felt like I found someone I want to share life with. And I don't 'play nice'.. I believe in humanity, and treat everyone as best I can.

I'm not jaded, I'm cautious. :P  My dad was... a monster sometimes.


I probably won't post in this thread anymore. I'm not trying to be a man in this world, not equal to one. I love being a woman, and all that is feminine about me. There seems to be a double-standard going.. If we are less than a man we are dogs, if we are equal or outshine a man we are .. whatever.  That's okay, just reveals who the alpha's really are.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 08:40:47 pm by Ioanna »

Offline djr_81

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2010, 08:39:50 pm »
I don't do badly at all, I attract the right men. I've been asked for marriage by several since high school graduation.  I never felt like I found someone I want to share life with. And I don't 'play nice'.. I believe in humanity, and treat everyone as best I can.

I'm not jaded, I'm cautious. :P  My dad was... a monster sometimes.


I probably won't post in this thread anymore. I'm not trying to be a man in this world, not equal to one. I love being a woman, and all that is feminine about me. There seems to be a double-standard going.. If we are less than a man we are dogs, if we are equal or outshine a man we are .. whatever.  That's okay, just reveals who the alpha's really are.

I was talking to Wodgina Ioanna, hence his quote before my first response. I'm on your side. ;)
I was ribbing Wodgina as he sounds like he's gone the route a lot of guys do where they get nowhere with younger girls playing the nice guy so they turn into the hardass personality so many younger women gravitate to.
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Offline Ioanna

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2010, 08:46:50 pm »
ohhhhhh, I thought you were adding to wodg  -[

i was way too revealing, then  ;)


Offline wodgina

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2010, 10:46:19 pm »
Yep I'm a nice guy. I couldn't be a hard arse if I tried.

Yeah Djr probably I've had a few missed opportunities stuff like that, nothing bad.

I was being tongue in cheek to your post Ioanna :P  You can get any guy anyway.



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Offline pioneer

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2010, 10:58:46 pm »
Haha, Miles, I could see how you think that. I just like to stick up for both sexes is all. The main point Id like to make is that Men and women are not the same. I think what women and feminists strive for is to be viewed the same as men. It initially started with respect, but then it went off track to the point where women want to prove themselves physically, and other means. I feel that men and women are not equals, we are obviously different on many levels. However, we are equals in terms of respect. Each sex can do things that the other can not do, therefore each sex should respect each other the same. Women, you have nothing to prove to us men, other than you are not a selfish bitch. That is what Im looking for anyway. This thread is starting to get off track, what about the anti vegan and soy?
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2010, 02:56:00 am »
That's not fair, women have been treated like dog shit since the dawn of time, until recently. Go to a medical school and check out the ratio of men/women, you're in a for a surprise. It is the same in many other fields, women are taking over!
I don't think that can be supported by facts. If you get a chance check out: (by Christina Hoff Sommers)
http://www.amazon.com/War-Against-Boys-Misguided-Feminism/dp/0684849569

It's a book that tells the story of the misguided feminism of yesteryear and today and how it is being used by women (most of whom are in essence professional men haters) to further their own political aims and has nothing to do with reality. These women have managed to corrupt the school system to the degree that nowadays it has been turned into a girl's school system. This is partly due to the overwhelming amount of teachers that are female and no wonder. Boys should be taught by men and be in boys only classes. Like it or lump it that's the truth. If you put a boy in a room with girls the girls will do better because boys are distracted by girls in class whereas girls are not distracted in the same way. So then the guys marks fall. Marks get you into higher education. That is why the university are busting at the seams with girls.

Boys are being forced to act like girls in classrooms by being forced to learn like girls. Boys learn by being challenged and be hands on. Girls learn by cooperation. Nothing wrong with either approach, but you cannot mix the two. Boys when forced to learn by cooperation simply die on the vine. They learn to hate school because they cannot/will not flourish in that environment. Its against their inner core being plain and simple. You cannot force a boy to act like a girl or vice versa. Consequently they drop out in droves and indeed twice as many women go to post secondary school as boys. What this equates to is that boys (who are at risk) end up in dead end jobs, think they are worthless and in a lot of cases they turn to things that are not productive, like suicide, (check out the CDC, boys/men do it considerably more often) running through schools with guns, gang stuff, you name it. This does not mean that every boy or every girl is in this mold just the ones that at risk, who could go in either direction.

As far as women getting the rotten end of the stick, nonsense, my sisters all went to university, my ex's friend's mother was a doc, truth is women chose for the most part what they wanted in their lives. Despite the utter lying in the press girls are much more equal now then they ever were.

The victim talk by women's groups is starting to wane as the women who really wanted to have children are now risking Down Syndrome by having children when they are too old.
Cheers
Al

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2010, 03:39:09 am »

Boys are being forced to act like girls in classrooms by being forced to learn like girls. Boys learn by being challenged and be hands on. Girls learn by cooperation.

What is funny is that I was always the opposite in school. I HATE team work. I love working alone, independently, taking charge of my own project. I don't enjoy spreading work around and having to babysit the work of others.

As for older women having babies more likely to have Down's syndrome, I'm not sure how much we can attribute that to age instead of SAD.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Vegan/soy diet does cause androgeny:
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2010, 06:58:47 am »
Klowcarb,
I was having problems with that last post and I thought I had lost it so I did not know it posted. I was editing it to take out my obvious ranting  ;) when it disappeared.

Indeed not every child can be fit into a mold. My girlfriend is very feminine, but she enjoys most of the same things I do. She prefers to work alone like yourself. Not to be a loner or antisocial.

This is from a website, the first one I got when I Googled;
"Although no one knows for sure why DS occurs and there's no way to prevent the chromosomal error that causes it, scientists do know that women age 35 and older have a significantly higher risk of having a child with the condition. At age 30, for example, a woman has about a 1 in 900 chance of conceiving a child with DS. Those odds increase to about 1 in 350 by age 35. By 40 the risk rises to about 1 in 100."

As is mentioned the reasons could be anything.

At the risk of sounding like a raw-nut  ;D I am starting to believe that a raw diet holds hope for reversing this but if you think about it a woman over 40 will be over sixty by the time the child is 20 so would not be as capable of looking after a child from a strictly physical point of view. Depending of course on the woman.

The point of my rant was not that women nowadays are good, bad or indifferent, just that men and women have always had power. It comes from within. It has nothing to do with crying victim. That is a weakness. Nowadays it has become cool to say women are victims and society has to give them a booster seat just to keep up with men.
Cheers
Al

 

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