examples of raw animal fat

[Joy2012]

Dorothy, WF Downtown told me that if their beef is labeled “grass-fed” then it is grass-finished. Their grass-fed beef comes from a number of ranches near Austin.
I actually rarely went to WF. I get my fresh produce from Wheatsville mostly. But as I am brand new to raw meats, I think the easiest/safest way for me right now is to start with WF as their food quality is supposedly high.

Thank you for telling me Mr. Slanker is extreme in some views. Do you know his credentials?

I am not likely to purchase extracted macadamia oil from Slanker’s. I was just happy to know whole macadamia nuts might serve as one source of oil/fat while I continue to explore the animal food world.

WF does not carry grass-fed organs. I guess I have to order from Slanker’s eventually.  What organs would you recommend to me as a newbie?
I actually like most of the cooked versions of organs. I like cooked cow’s tongue and pig’s kidney/liver a lot. Cooked chicken heart/liver is OK. But I do not like cooked cow’s liver.  But raw organs should be quite different in taste, I guess?

I see this forum emphasizes raw organs. What nutrients do organs contain which raw meats do not offer? Are these nutrients obtainable from vegetarian source? (Maybe I should ask this question in another forum than ZC.)

[TylerDurden]

Raw organ meats contain far higher levels of nutrients than raw muscle-meats. They also contain trace nutrients like coenzyme q10 which are wholly absent in raw muscle-meats.

[sabertooth]

Most vegetable oils are suspect among the Raw food community
I have serious Doubts about flax oil being healthy.(it is supposedly full of hormone descriptors)

I use to get grass fed beef from whole foods , before I started to get whole lambs from the farm. It was good for a while, but then for some reason it started to taste funky and I lost my appetite for it. That beef came from Georgia.

Sometimes, early into this diet, when I was desperate for fat, I would ask the butchers at WF to set back some fat trimmings. They had large amounts of trimmings from their Ohio signature beef. It was grass-fed, but finished on grain for 14 days. It usually tasted good ,and I didn't have any problems with it. I got them to sell it for a dollar a pound. The wholefoods often sells marrow bones,which are also a good source of fat.

 I have adopted the whole animal approach. It just seems logical that if you consume the whole animal you will get the optimal balance of all the different nutrients stored in the different tissues.

[Dorothy]

I have to stop recommending Slankers as all the times I have ordered so far they have been back-ordered. I'm starting to wonder if they will be a good consistent dependable source. I'm going to have to explore new options.

Joy, I am not the person to make recommendations on organ meats as I despise them all.  I didn't eat any ever growing up and at this late stage in the game the only way for me to get myself to eat any is to hide them as best I can. Others I'm sure can give you detailed recommendations on organs and the best way to eat them individually. It makes great sense to me how important they are though especially on a mostly meat diet and I don't doubt for second that they contain all sorts of trace nutrients and the law of signatures (eat liver to help the liver) has been used by many to heal particular organs.

Thanks for the info on WFs grass-fed being really all the way grass-fed. Have you bought their ground yet? Does it look good to you? Maybe it would be worth giving them another try one day. The fact that they use local farmers is very good.

[Joy2012]

Tyler, sabertooth, Dorothy,  thank you for taking time to respond to my email.

I purchased some grass-fed, grain finished veal liver and a small package of organic chicken organs (a heart, a gizzard,  and a liver) from WF.  Their taste (after I marinated them and warmed them up in my dehydrator)  is acceptable to me. So I am hopeful that  I am really on my way to raw paleo diet.

Tyler, do you recall which organs contain Q-10? I am very interested in getting this nutrient through diet.


Sabertooth,  will you point me to some scientific articles that disapprove  whole raw flax seeds (soaked and dehydrated at low temperature)? I do  not mean extracted flax oil.
“I have adopted the whole animal approach. It just seems logical that if you consume the whole animal you will get the optimal balance of all the different nutrients stored in the different tissues.” Logical apparently.  On the other hand, in your practical experience, have you noticed specific health benefits as you adopt this approach?

Dorothy, I have not tried WF’s ground beef. I am content with my minced beef patties produced by my food processor.
As to Slanker’s, I would think many farms are running out of grass-fed meats because of the draught.  A few months ago,  a cattle farmer told me that grass-fed beef would be scarce in 2012 because many farmers were selling their grass-fed cattle due to the draught. Now that we are getting some rains lately, hopefully his prediction will not come true.

This is from yesterday’s Austin American-Statesman:
“drought…has put a number of grass-fed cattle ranchers out of business or forced them to supplement or finish raising the animals with grain.”

[TylerDurden]

Raw liver and raw heart contain the highest amounts of q10.

[Dorothy]

Slankers says they are ok because of the recent rains - but they just can't keep up the demand in terms of process. They seem to not store any backup meat even though it is frozen.... they seem to be just behind the 8 ball with every order I've placed ... with cows at the processor but dependent on when the processor can get to it or when they themselves can pick up the order. It's all a matter of calculating needs and having the production on time and target - which seems to be a big problem for them since I've started ordering at least. They say they have the cows - I just can't buy any from them!

I can't imagine having to depend on them for food supply. My poor dogs are suffering terribly changing their diets so suddenly and not having anything lined up for them that is anywhere good enough. It's very frustrating. If I were dependent totally for our food supply from them I would be even more frantic right now. I'm trying to buy a whole animal - but like you mentioned - because there are so few farmers left from the drought - it sure is hard going. I wish I had bought a few cows when I knew of people selling out their whole stock last summer. 3 months over 100 degrees every day with not one day of rain - it wiped out sooooo many farms.

I'm instead ---  buying more chickens and ducks to at least have good raw eggs because then I can raise bugs myself to feed them properly and have a dependable food source. I might even try feeding the bugs to my dogs if they will eat them. Unless one has a farm and/or hunts things feel tenuous. The prices are so very high - but it's not only that - even with just a few more people wanting the product, and like you said with the drought here, a supply problem is occurring.  I hate being so dependent on an unreliable source. There is not one other source for ground up whole animal. I talked to one farmer that might start processing their miniature herefords - but I won't know about that for awhile either. It feels strange to buy over 300 pounds of frozen meat because if there is ever an electrical outage - bad news.

I do have a good food processor. I thought I'd have to buy a meat grinder. I'm wondering if I might be able to make up something myself for the dogs from different sources. How does the processing work for you Joy? What consistency do you get and is it difficult?  What do you grind up?

[Joy2012]

Tyler,  many thanks for the CoQ-10 info. 

Dorothy,  sorry about your frustration in getting foodstuff from suppliers. So far I am mainly getting my beef from WF and they have plenty of beef. I guess I may meet obstacles when I try to purchase other food items.

My 11-cup food processor works beautifully for my needs. I place into it 3 pounds of sliced beef, spices (in powdered form), raw sesame butter (I will try raw coconut butter next time), and blend everything up for one or two minutes.  What comes out is finely-ground paste. I warm up “meat patties” in my dehydrator at 115 degree F and I like the patties well.  The meat paste keeps well in the fridge for a few days until it is all consumed. I  turn the meat paste around everyday to expose it to air.

I also place veal liver and spices in my food processor and blend it up  for a few second till the liver becomes paste.  The warmed-up liver pattie tastes just like cooked liver.   I know you despise liver, but maybe your pets don't.

[aLptHW4k4y]

The warmed-up liver pattie tastes just like cooked liver.   I know you despise liver, but maybe your pets don't.

If it tastes like cooked liver doesn't it mean it's cooked?

[Dorothy]

Joy - thanks for the description. I like paste, chickens would love paste, dogs would prefer something chewier - but they would live - and every single one of my pets go BONKERS for liver. They're smarter than me. 

The chickens don't have teeth, and neither do some of my dogs (rescues), that's why consistency is important - I can't just throw them a steak or a liver etc. I was hoping to avoid grinding meat and like items, but if I have to, I have to. What cuts of beef do you make into a paste from WF?

The reason I want to get a whole animal is because I feed my dogs ONLY meat - which means they need ALL the organs - the whole animal. If I don't give them a whole animal then I'm going to have to start fussing with supplements and other kinds of foods added - which I prefer not to. My dogs were totally ketogenically adapted, but now with having to change their diets back and forth it messes them up. I have to figure out something that can be consistent for them. I bet it must be even harder for the humans here if they suddenly couldn't get the food they need to keep them healthy in their complete animal ketogenic diets. All those trace substances in the whole animal's various organs I think are pivotal. I think it's why most dog foods have to include all sorts of things - and human foods too.

I like how you add your seasonings and use your dehydrator. I think that might be a real nice thing to try for hubbie who seems to really enjoy seasoned meat and likes it still slightly cooked. I prefer mine not seasoned though and totally raw - even cold. Maybe dehydration would be a good thing to try for him.

[Joy2012]

aL,   food warmed up at 115 degree F is not cooked. Well, maybe it does not taste “exactly” like cooked. I am just very proud that I could make raw liver/meat palatable to me, a newbie in the animal food community.

Dorothy, I buy chuck steak or rump roast from WH, just because they are the least expensive cuts ($7 a pound).

[sabertooth]

Raw liver and raw heart contain the highest amounts of q10.

I was looking around for info regarding q10 loss due to cooking

Not a whole lot of info.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9129255
 

How do cooking, storage or processing affect coenzyme Q?

[Joy2012]

"Boiled food retains CQ10, while food prepared by frying may lose some of its CQ10."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/545390-nutrients-that-create-cq10/


"...frying vegetables reduces CoQ10 by approximately 14 to 32 percent, the vegetable's CoQ10 content did not change when boiled...
Although the amount of CoQ10 obtainable from food seems small, research indicates that the body's ability to create CoQ10 combined with a healthy diet ensures that most people do not have a deficiency."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/256149-what-foods-are-rich-in-coq10/


"Beef has the highest amount of coQ10 of any food source. A 3-ounce serving of fried beef has 2.6 milligrams of coQ10, according to a study in the 1986 International Journal for Vitamin and Nutrition Research.  The liver, muscle and heart of the cow have the greatest amounts."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/326159-foods-that-are-high-in-coq10/



 
"CoQ10 is necessary for the production of energy in all of your cells, and its antioxidant effects are important to protecting your cells from free-radical damage... CoQ10 inhibits blood clot formation and can help treat heart disease, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. A deficiency of CoQ10 can manifest as high blood pressure, fatigue that is not relieved by adequate rest, periodontal disease and weight gain.

Your body is able to produce a small amount of CoQ10 on its own, and you generally obtain the rest from your diet. Meats are a high source of CoQ10. Beef liver and pork liver are rich in CoQ10. Beef, chicken and venison are high in CoQ10. There are 2.6 mg. of CoQ10 in 3 oz. of beef and 1.4 mg. in 3 oz. of chicken.

Herring, mackerel and rainbow trout are healthy sources of CoQ10. There 2.3 mg of CoQ10 in herring, 1.2 mg in mackerel and 0.9 in rainbow trout.

Spinach and broccoli represent healthy vegetable sources of CoQ10, along with cauliflower. One ounce of sesame seeds contains 0.7 mg of CoQ10, while pistachio nuts contain 0.6 mg. Soybean oil and canola oil, both contain about 1 mg of CoQ10. One medium orange contains 0.3 mg of CoQ10, and 1 cup of strawberries has 0.2 mg.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/409792-what-foods-have-coenzyme-q10/

I cannot find info. on the Co Q10 amount in beef liver/heart.