Sell me on raw

[butters]

I've been on off considering trying raw for nearly half a year but its difficult to make such a change when I don't know much about the diet. Can anyone tell me in facts why I should go raw?

[yuli]

Sorry if this sounds mean but can't you READ? This forum and the internet are full of free information on this...
You have been considering raw diet for half a year yet you don't know much about it or why its considered good? Strange.
I even read about diets that I have no interest in actually trying never mind the ones I try...
If you have concrete questions about certain aspects ok but otherwise if you're this lazy you will never succeed with a raw diet.
You must want to learn and to work at it, no one can do this for you.
Go and read the forum (there is even a SEARCH function hint hint) and you will have most of the answers, then start working at it and you will formulate some concrete questions which can actually be answered by members.

[butters]

Sorry if this sounds mean but can't you READ? This forum and the internet are full of free information on this...
You have been considering raw diet for half a year yet you don't know much about it or why its considered good? Strange.
I even read about diets that I have no interest in actually trying never mind the ones I try...
If you have concrete questions about certain aspects ok but otherwise if you're this lazy you will never succeed with a raw diet.
You must want to learn and to work at it, no one can do this for you.
Go and read the forum (there is even a SEARCH function hint hint) and you will have most of the answers, then start working at it and you will formulate some concrete questions which can actually be answered by members.

Honesty is good. I have read topics on this forum and I see benefits but my point is the commitment is huge, especially where I live, where it is very difficult to get the foods needed to stay on a raw diet. Perhaps you can sell me on the diet......?

[Nation]

If you are in good health, keep doing what you're doing, whatever it is you're eating.

If you have health problems, then you shouldn't need any extra motivation.

[butters]

If you are in good health, keep doing what you're doing, whatever it is you're eating.

If you have health problems, then you shouldn't need any extra motivation.

Thanks. What you said suggests there isen't a huge difference between raw and cooked paleo

[miles]

Butters, if you're already eating cooked paleo, then by eating the foods which you're already eating, but raw, you would experience only benefit.

[yuli]

There is no single way to SELL it...perhaps because it will help you avoid painful degenerative disease when you get old.
But where do you live that its so difficult to buy raw foods?
You can't buy raw meat? Raw fish? Raw vegetables? Raw fruits? They must have those items in any supermarket.
Oh well maybe you can't get WILD meat or grass-fed, boohoo, guess what, if you eat grainfed meat cooked its still many times better raw. So go ahead, buy that juicy grainfed fillet mignon and dig in, grainfed meats are not as clean but they have none of the cooked toxins if you don't cook them anyway, not to mention they are absolutely delicious.
Oh and then, wait for it, this is very difficult, buy vegetables and make an UNCOOKED salad....lol....then later....eat an apple but don't fry it...lol
As you can see its no brain surgery, start with whatever you can buy and later on you can find sources of even better meats.
Hope that sort of sells it, its easy, you can eat food thats convenient to buy, and you don't have to spend time cooking.

Oh...and if you are already healthy then you will enjoy even greater health  
Other then that why don't you try doing what I call the "half-ass raw paleo", eat paleo but only have 30% of your food cooked, that works wonderfully if you're already healthy. I have been doing that (except having a few days all raw) and its wonderful way to eat AND enjoy everything.

[King Salmon]

Interesting.Maybe we should have a requirement to be already RPD before joining the forum?

[laterade]

Down pinky! I appreciate the flame, but you may scare away the guests.

Seriously butters just eat whole food and quit burning it.
It really is simple... when the food is about to be cooked... stop.. and just eat it.
Realize that you are only depreciating your food no matter what that food is.
If you have to burn it than you probably should not be eating it. Cooked is common but not natural in any way.
First we cooked to keep animals away, now we cook out of fear. It is not like cavemen realized they were "living longer" and decided to cook every single thing they ate from then on. The only reason people eat 100% cooked food is because they are ignorant and afraid of cooties.
Just try it for a month. Get the best food you can.
I personally would not touch typical food, but if I had to, I would not burn it before it went into my body. That is pointless.

Interesting.Maybe we should have a requirement to be already RPD before joining the forum?

I disagree KS, that would be gay. Lets not turn into a "click" please.
We should have a newcomers section.. oh wait I think there is
Maybe it should be at the top in bold letters.. wait..
butters... WTF? just try it. at the most you will only be wasting a month,
I am sure you will love all the time you will save not digesting dry bunk.

[MoonStalkeR]

Thanks. What you said suggests there isen't a huge difference between raw and cooked paleo

There is a huge difference between raw and cooked paleo. Start as soon as possible, even slight additions like raw meat several times a week will have a large impact on your health.

[yuli]

Down pinky! I appreciate the flame, but you may scare away the guests.

I didn't flame anyone, I told him to learn more about the diet, which is a good thing. We don't have to butter everything up to not scare the guests away, what would be the point. To "flame" is to insult someone or an entire group electronically, telling someone to read and ask questions that make sense is not an insult, maybe I could have wrote it in a pretty way but I don't talk like that.... and he did not sound like he got scared away, he even "appreciated the honesty" as he put it, I would have said the exact same thing in person. After all, we aren't here to SELL the diet we are here to help people make informed and healthy decisions right? And if he does a diet because someone sold him on it its not a good or informed decision IMO.

Interesting.Maybe we should have a requirement to be already RPD before joining the forum?

I also think this is a horrible idea, yes we want to RESTRICT more people interested in the diet to come to this forum. What if someone is not all raw paleo but they still enjoy eating raw meat and learning about it? What if someone is doing a presentation or project on this and they come here for information? What if someone needs to talk to some long time raw paleo people before diving in? This is what will scare the guests away.
Personally, when I see a "contract" in order to join a forum I am disgusted and will look elsewhere.

I wanted to join the ZIOH forum a while ago before because I was interested to talk to some of the ZCers there and get some info...but as soon as I saw that contract I know I will never come back to even look at that forum again.

Whats the point of that? I mean are they scared of people flaming their diet? Then if that happens the moderator can always ban the user or delete their posts anyway. If you have to "hide" other people like that it makes me think there is something weak about the forum or the people on that diet anyway.

Also how the hell do you prove it...if we had a contract like that I could just say "Yeah I have been raw paleo for a year", its soooo easy to lie, so all it will do is make people think badly of the forum.

There is a huge difference between raw and cooked paleo. Start as soon as possible, even slight additions like raw meat several times a week will have a large impact on your health.

I agree, exactly why I suggested doing the "half-ass raw paleo" 

[goodsamaritan]

The miracle disease cure stories happen on RAW paleo diet... not cooked.
Raw fruit vs cooked fruit.
Raw veggies vs cooked veggies
Raw meat vs cooked meat

Do I get paid for salesmanship?

Seems there is no funding mechanism for me to sell you on raw.

[Josh]

I have to agree with Yuli. Butters,  everyone will help you but you seem to show the classic signs of someone looking for some kind of answer but not listening or maybe digesting what people say.

For example you posted about social anxiety and people gave you full answers, then later you ask almost exactly the same thing.

Now it is a bit frustrating if you say 'sell me raw paleo'. One it's not our job to be rp salespeople, 2 it's just a big vague question that noone can answer.

It's the cleanest diet and provides the best nutrition so if you have problems I think it will give you the best chance..and as we start to age. Can't really say if it will make a big difference to your situation unless you try it. It won't erase all problems in your life or make you superhuman.

For me, it's the hardest diet out there to stick to..if cooked paleo meets your needs then there's no shame in that, it's your life you don't get more points for being raw.

[Iguana]

Go and read the forum (there is even a SEARCH function hint hint) and you will have most of the answers, then start working at it and you will formulate some concrete questions which can actually be answered by members.

I doubt that reading the forum is the best way to start with. Here everyone give very personal points of view and ideas, often contradicting each other and messing up the whole thing. Moreover, most of the posts are without any real interest and it's time consuming to find the relevant ones. It's good place for discussions and arguing, but to go straight to the scientific and rational basis, it's better to read first the books and texts freely available on line, for example here:
http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/
I still wait for a review of GC Burger’s book, which is in my view the foremost and most fundamental book about rawpaleo, so that everybody here should have read it before arguing: http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggindex.html
I could do it myself but I don’t have the time. I'm amazed that only another contributor and I seem to have read it:
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/instinctoanopsology/who-has-read-gc-burger%27s-first-book/
There’s also the book of Aajonus Vonderplanitz “We want to live”:
http://www.amazon.com/We-Want-Live-Aajonus-Vonderplanitz/dp/1889356778
but I don’t know if it’s freely available on line. Anyway, there are some text of his on the web, but I couldn’t read any further after having read his rather unbelievable  story about coyotes feeding him. Anyway,  I think he’s got valid points, except on dairy consumption which is clearly Neolithic.

Cheers
Francois

[Iguana]

For me, it's the hardest diet out there to stick to..if cooked paleo meets your needs then there's no shame in that, it's your life you don't get more points for being raw.

I agree with what you wrote, but not with that. For me being on instincto-nutrition is the easiest thing, as it's not really a diet. I could never stick to any kind of conventional diet because I would feel imprisoned into a closed system.  

[TylerDurden]

Couple of points:-

1) This whole business of "selling a diet" is ridiculous. We are not a cult, nor is there any real incentive for us to persuade people who are not all that interested in our diets. It is only in our(and their) interest to mention this diet mainly to those who are in genuine need due to having awful health-problems or who have a genuine interest in a raw diet so as to avoid future problems, but the way to do that is in a passive way, not an active way:- (ie just post accounts of our own experiences with this diet and let people read such posts in passing, plus mention relevant studies from time to time re raw or cooked diets, and so on).

2)   Actually, the best thing one can do is to read through the entire message-archives of rawpaleoforum and related RVAF diet forums. While many posts are not directly relevant to peoples' specific conditions, there will always be some posts, here and there which not only answer the queries one has, but will also provide very useful answers to questions one had never thought of before. Reading the entire message-archives of past RVAF diet forums, while a bit boring, provided me with far more data than I ever could have got from reading raw books like AV's.


That said, there are 3 excellent reasons for going rawpalaeo:-

First of all, it is the best way to get rid of most past health-problems.  Only surgery is better in some cases, and then only for things like car-accidents and the like. Secondly, it is a great way to slow down the rate of aging, as heat-created toxins, such as AGEs, help speed up aging by increasing the rate and severity of health-problems linked to old age.Thirdly, given the science of epigenetics which focuses on the impact of things like bad diet on one's DNA, going rawpalaeo means your child will be less likely to be afflicted with modern ailments like asthma etc.

[jennie]

Butters, did you ever try to eat any meat raw? It's a barrier to overcome. You just have to say to yourself that you are going to take the plunge. Go get the meat, sit down with a knife and fork. Tell yourself -here we go! And eat the damn thing

I'm currently "half-ass raw paleo"  , sometimes full raw paleo, keep the things you like to keep from the diet you have, just eat raw meat, liver, eggs, bonemarrow, fish in addition and see where it takes you.

[Iguana]

1) This whole business of "selling a diet" is ridiculous. We are not a cult, nor is there any real incentive for us to persuade people who are not all that interested in our diets. It is only in our(and their) interest to mention this diet mainly to those who are in genuine need due to having awful health-problems or who have a genuine interest in a raw diet so as to avoid future problems, but the way to do that is in a passive way, not an active way:- (ie just post accounts of our own experiences with this diet and let people read such posts in passing, plus mention relevant studies from time to time re raw or cooked diets, and so on).

Sure!

2)   Actually, the best thing one can do is to read through the entire message-archives of rawpaleoforum and related RVAF diet forums. While many posts are not directly relevant to peoples' specific conditions, there will always be some posts, here and there which not only answer the queries one has, but will also provide very useful answers to questions one had never thought of before. Reading the entire message-archives of past RVAF diet forums, while a bit boring, provided me with far more data than I ever could have got from reading raw books like AV's.

I can't even follow the constant stream of post on this single forum, I don't read every single one posted (especially avoiding the longest ones unless they are extremely interesting and well written), so I wonder how someone could ever read all this plus all in the related other forums, from the first ones till the last. You could do it when this forum was rather small, but would you be able to do it now? Sure, you can gather data, but to have a clear and rational idea of the fundamental principles, I maintain it's better to read first the relevant books and texts of pertinent, logical and knowledgeable authors.

EDIT : It's the same for every subject. For example, you don’t go straight to an automotive  engineers’ forum without having read some good books explaining the fundamentals about it. Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to understand what they’re talking about. Once you know at least the basics, then you can gather some extra practical and anecdotal data from forums while being able to assess the valid points or faults in the arguments exposed, and perhaps ask pertinent question or provide answers.  

[King Salmon]

Couple of points:-

1) This whole business of "selling a diet" is ridiculous. We are not a cult, nor is there any real incentive for us to persuade people who are not all that interested in our diets.

2)   Actually, the best thing one can do is to read through the entire message-archives of rawpaleoforum and related RVAF diet forums.

I agree,one should do their "research" first.Secondly,they might want to experiment with the diet for a while and see how they feel.

I remember when I joined a tennis club,nobody had to "sell" me on being interested in playing tennis

[raw-al]

Wow everybody, (almost) why so testy?

Iguana is the only one that actually answered the question.

I read people on this forum who are concerned about being a cult. You're only part of a cult if you talk like you are.

Butter,
Iguana suggested some good books/authors. They may not be perfect but they are a darned good start. I suspect that's where a lot of people started from. You can decide for yourself after reading these books.

Personally someone told me about Aajonus Vonderplanitz. I was/am very healthy, but the person that told me about the raw diet was a very sickly person who had a virtual miracle cure by going to a raw diet. Seems to be a lot of that on this site.

Being curious I got his book almost exactly one year ago and my GF and I have done his "Raw Primal Diet" ever since. Not everyone follows his diet advice such as milk and vege juice, but his explanations of the fundamentals are fascinating. I was completely blown away.

We have found similar results to other people ie; we eat considerably less, it's a lot more expensive (remember we were veges before) we eat organic as much as possible, with meat;

-beef try to get beef that is only pastured or eats hay, avoid grain finished beef and stay the heck away from the grocery store crap that's loaded with God only knows what.

-fish try to eat only wild caught

I don't get gas anymore and if I do it's not rotten like from cooked food, I don't feel stuffed all the time, you tend to become more solid without gaining weight, have more energy and better digestion generally.

Some people are raw vegetarians and I find that bookstores contain mainly their books. I was a vege for 23 years (cooked) and I can't imagine how anyone could survive on a raw vege diet...

Reading over this forum would take a lifetime of wading through an enormous amount of chatting.

[raw-al]

Butter,
Do you have health issues? Maybe that's a better start.
What do you eat now?
Why were you looking at the diet in the first place?

[achillezzz]

half cook your meat or go to resturant and get yourself medium rare steak or rare with salad and try it or try sashimi even better :d
I dont understand this people who like well done steaks it looks like pieace of carbon to me how can you do that to the meat rofl

[laterade]

half cook your meat or go to resturant and get yourself medium rare steak or rare with salad and try it or try sashimi even better :d
I dont understand this people who like well done steaks it looks like pieace of carbon to me how can you do that to the meat rofl

Great idea achillezzz,
1.Go to a restaurant and get some sashimi
2.Don't die
3.Realize it is all good and quit cooking food!

I am pretty sure everyone here was afraid of parasites at first, TV shows like monsters inside me are scary. The news is constantly talking about superbugs, germs, and all that bunk. We can not sell something as radical as this, you must try it and see for yourself.

[King Salmon]

We can not sell something as radical as this, you must try it and see for yourself.

Now,that's what I'm talkinabout !

[raw-al]

Personally speaking, the taste of meat at first was not pretty but once we got past that now we find it the opposite. We also had a bit of minor indigestion for a short period of time while our stomach got geared up for a different type of digestion but now we're settled. Took maybe a week.

We went to a friend's for a vege party last night. Felt not so good afterwards.

The stuff about bacteria and cooking breaking down food to make it more digestible is BS, plain and simple.

Cooking actually creates toxins of a few different varieties (I will spare you the details) that are discussed in other threads.

Cooking also destroys nutrients which is a well known fact.

Cooked food will turn rotten quicker and my impression is that when it goes bad the bacteria really are bad news.

My understanding is that the only bacteria that are really harmful are ones that grow in the absence of oxygen (anaerobic).

In fact a very old tradition from various parts of the world involves allowing meat to age in a bottle usually for a minimum of a month. This is called high meat and it is not only completely safe it is actually very beneficial to your health and mood. It is called "High meat" and there is few threads here describing how to make it. FOLLOW THE RULES.

Personally I say go full raw paleo. You will spend a brief time getting acclimatized and then your life will simplify. My GF has a couple of extra hours a day because of no cooking. Electric bill plummets. Indigestion, of various kinds tends to stop. Toss the pots and pans.

Restaurants have a few items which are raw such as Japanese Sushi places, and there is a raw ground beef recipe (I forget the name) you can get.