Author Topic: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions  (Read 30729 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2010, 10:03:52 am »
Actually there has been a vast food-poisoning epidemic caused by you. Since these people are dead they can not respond. Luckily this man survived long enough to ask the question: WTF??

By my calculations based on
  • The high toxin levels in your high meat recipe
  • The low immune system resistance to these types of toxins in newbies
  • Your supposed credibility as Global Moderator
  • The number of years you have been promoting this crazy idea
  • The traffic on this website
  • The gullibility of a lot of the newbies

The number of deaths is in the thousands. We will never know for sure because, of course, they are dead and can't tell us.

Have you no conscience Sir? Does a human life mean nothing to you?

Merry Christmas


I cannot believe that you could post such utterly psychotic, deluded nonsense. It is self-evident that if there really were such  epidemics with so many fatalities in the RVAF diet community, that they could not fail to be reported in the papers, with newspapers having a field-day, and TV reports all over the world on the subject., as most media despises such diets. Well, that is, unless you believe that little green aliens in their UFOs have been practising mind-control on all media outlets in order to suppress the information!

The way I see it, you are on your last warning. There is a certain level of integrity expected among members. While members can always make mistakes, or say something foolish in a fit of anger or whatever, the above is so clearly fraudulent a claim, and so deluded, that you clearly have no integrity whatsoever.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 10:25:53 am by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline yuli

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 781
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2010, 10:09:06 am »
That's why I asked earlier if the effects of high-meat are just a narcotic high, caused by the toxins. But then I don't know anything about toxins, just thinking outloud.

Not sure as I have never had high meat. I am not saying its like most narcotics, for example cocaine or getting drunk I obviously feel bad effects and would not recommend coke or heavy drinking to anyone unless they are ok with the toxic effects otherwise  :o
However with LSD (which is actually one of the least toxic things on earth) and shrooms, in SMALL amounts I definitely feel that its similar to what people say of high meat, except I know with those things I won't get poisoned as I have tried them numerous times without ill-effects (unless you eat a great amount of them with would be dumb anyway)....with the high meat I don't know yet.
I think I have to try some verified good high meat and compare the effect! Yay a new experiment to try  ;D Now can anyone spare me a piece of verified good high meat? heh heh....Tyler you wanna mail me a piece as you seem to know how to make it well  :P

...To me high meats can only compound things I propose because you are accelerating this paradigm and introducing something even more foreign. I stand by this 50%! :)

LOL, yeah thats the main reason I am wary to try it, as its so concentrated, and because of that I put it into similar group as LSD and shrooms, it seems like very potent stuff that needs to be taken with care as you never know how another person will react to it, and it should be prepared by someone who knows what they are doing. Just cause I handle it ok doesn't mean my friend will have the same experience.

Offline actup

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 857
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2010, 11:48:36 am »
I cannot believe that you could post such utterly psychotic, deluded nonsense. It is self-evident that if there really were such  epidemics with so many fatalities in the RVAF diet community, that they could not fail to be reported in the papers, with newspapers having a field-day, and TV reports all over the world on the subject., as most media despises such diets. Well, that is, unless you believe that little green aliens in their UFOs have been practising mind-control on all media outlets in order to suppress the information!
The way I see it, you are on your last warning. There is a certain level of integrity expected among members. While members can always make mistakes, or say something foolish in a fit of anger or whatever, the above is so clearly fraudulent a claim, and so deluded, that you clearly have no integrity whatsoever.

He has been pissing me off for a while...
I would not be surprised to see the regulatory agencies creating accounts to push their nonsense into this forum in an attempt to stop the growth of our numbers.
(anyone who cites the CDC obviously has their head in the clouds)
Donrad, you appear to either be an impostor or totally ignorant.

Actually there has been a vast food-poisoning epidemic caused by you. Since these people are dead they can not respond. Luckily this man survived long enough to ask the question: WTF??

By my calculations based on
  • The high toxin levels in your high meat recipe
  • The low immune system resistance to these types of toxins in newbies
  • Your supposed credibility as Global Moderator
  • The number of years you have been promoting this crazy idea
  • The traffic on this website
  • The gullibility of a lot of the newbies

The number of deaths is in the thousands. We will never know for sure because, of course, they are dead and can't tell us.

Have you no conscience Sir? Does a human life mean nothing to you?

Merry Christmas

You are full of shit.

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2010, 12:14:42 pm »
not that i'm one to talk, but lets not fight fire with fire.

Maybe a lid was flipped above, but based on other contributions, its seems more out of concern for others than some kind of participation in government conspiracy. doesn't validate it either way, just saying.

---

yuli, that analogy makes sense to me, once someone knows how it works in their body, and the right parameters and methods, it probably becomes exponentially 'safer'.

Offline miles

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,904
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 01:05:05 pm »
Actup you're the one with your head in the clouds. Paranoid, fantasising that everyone's conspiring against you. Did you say you used to smoke a lot of weed? Ahh I've become Jeremy Kyle!

Dima said his meat was in a jar, so the bits touching the side are not going to be exposed to air, and she said it was green which in my experience(including reading other's experiences) only happens if the meat isn't exposed to fresh air...

Tyler, Donrad's not on his 'last warning'. He only wrote that extreme 'possibility' to counter your complete dismissal of some things which are actually fact. If in defending high-meat you're going to dismiss facts(even the fact that something is a possibility, not only the fact that something is a fact), then he has to counter in the extreme opposite. You're right defending aged-meat, and he's right in attacking rotten meat. But he's not attacking what you're defending, and you're not defending what he's attacking. Responding without properly reading what each other have written is what has allowed this thread to descend into such a mess.

I think the advice about smelling and tasting is good. I'd not eat anything without smelling and tasting it first. What is 'foul' however might change with time. Something may smell strong and different, but if you can taste it, chew it in your mouth, and despite it tasting so different still feel it's ok to eat, then it probably is.

It's alright when people are arguing, and one person perhaps argues more extremely than what he really believes, and then the other person does so in the opposite direction, because they still balance each other out. But you can't do that and then threaten to ban someone, because that destroys the equilibrium. If you want to be in a position to make such threats reasonably, you need to first make sure you are completely balanced yourself.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 01:20:15 pm by miles »
5-10% off your first purchase at http://www.iherb.com/ with dicount code: KIS978

Offline michaelwh

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 01:12:16 pm »
I think the advice about smelling and tasting is good. I'd not eat anything without smelling and tasting it first. What is 'foul' however might change with time. Something may smell strong and different, but if you can taste it, chew it in your mouth, and despite it tasting so different still feel it's ok to eat, then it probably is.

One thing to keep in mind, is that our sense of taste and smell is highly influenced by our upbringing.

Stefansson described how the Eskimos loved rotten meat/fish, and compared it to a gourmet stinky cheese.

Although he is not the most credible source, Aajonus also described how Eskimo children loved high meat, and ate it like candy.

Therefore, it is plausible that we can not reliably use our sense of taste and smell to determine whether high meat is good for us.

It would be interesting to try out high meat on different pets/animals. I remember reading on forums, and also hearing from Aajonus, that in general, dogs, and poultry love high meat, but cat's don't like it.

I agree with Tyler and KD's responses to donrad.


More than 125, 000 people are hospitalized, and 3,000 die from food-borne illnesses each year, according to data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in December 2010....etc etc etc....
Donrad,
The fearmongering that you posted can be applied equally well to fresh raw meat, or fresh raw vegetables. Have you ever eaten raw meat? Have you ever tried making high meat? Have you ever thought about these issues on your own? Do you speak from experience? Or are you just parroting some public health agency?

Offline miles

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,904
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 01:35:08 pm »
Yeah Michaelw, I had some moist-aged meat just last night(kidney) that reminded me of the wet kind of blue cheese. I smelt it and tasted it like any meat, and I felt it was ok to eat, despite it tasting so different. It was enjoyable, as has been any meat I've eaten. If you can't smell something without recoiling, and chew it in your mouth without gagging, but still bolt it down, then it probably is going to cause you some (acutely)negative symptoms later.

Donrad,
The fearmongering that you posted can be applied equally well to fresh raw meat, or fresh raw vegetables. Have you ever eaten raw meat? Have you ever tried making high meat? Have you ever thought about these issues on your own? Do you speak from experience? Or are you just parroting some public health agency?

No, it couldn't apply. Donrad himself said that his nose warned him. The same wouldn't happen with fresh meat. Donrad is aware that all these bacteria are present everywhere, but also that in the wrong circumstances these bacteria can become out of control, which is when they can cause problems.

These bacteria are all over the place, but only in certain circumstances can they thrive and pose a threat(and even then that threat may be minor for healthy people). But it seems that the circumstances Dima created likely did facilitate the over-growth of bad-bacteria, but he was able to deal with it and recover fairly easily.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 01:43:08 pm by miles »
5-10% off your first purchase at http://www.iherb.com/ with dicount code: KIS978

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 05:17:07 pm »
Like was mentioned let your nose tell you if its good or not, I age my meats slightly but only eat them if they still taste and smell at least acceptable, I would just feel wrong eating something that was that rotten and decomposed that its slimy and moldy and the mold doesn't smell good. I don't eat fruit like that, I don't eat any food that is in that much of a state of rottenness, so why would I wanna eat meat, my favorite food, in such a way...

And is there really a need to eat meat that is that rotten unless you have some serious issues with your gut? Is the "euphoria" you get from it that good that its worth eating meat so nasty that you have to swallow it and try not to gag? That just seems wrong somehow even though its apparently good.
I mean if I really wanna be euphoric I will have lots of sex, or take a small hit of LSD, take a sprint, or a shot of vodka or a glass of good red wine, all these things to me seem more enjoyable then eating meat that dogs and cats won't even touch. And if I really want some bacteria in my gut aged meat is enough, or eat some rotten foods that are enjoyable like sauerkraut. I doubt humans are built so weak they have to drink a rotten meat concoction in order to keep their flora good, sounds like bullshit to me.
So I think why do it then unless you enjoy eating meat that has turned into shit. I'd rather have raw meat that I enjoy.
But I have never tried to eat really high meat so maybe it is worth it, just don't look down upon me taking some LSD, or smoking some pot when you eat that damn slimy rotten crap, lol  >D

I suspect people that go on RDP think they must make themselves try this crap and keep trying it....and they have to start with small pieces of this crap of course, you can train yourself to start eating cooked foods the same way, just keep taking tiny pieces of some deep fried shit and you'll have some weird effects too. I just don't know why its thought of so highly to eat high meat, I will try it once and if its not as good as sex or taking some LSD then I am right, its not fucking worth it.  -v


I think the advice about smelling and tasting is good. I'd not eat anything without smelling and tasting it first. What is 'foul' however might change with time. Something may smell strong and different, but if you can taste it, chew it in your mouth, and despite it tasting so different still feel it's ok to eat, then it probably is

If you can't smell something without recoiling, and chew it in your mouth without gagging, but still bolt it down, then it probably is going to cause you some (acutely)negative symptoms later.

I never made high meat the way advised by AV. I just age my meat hung on hooks in the fridge and/or in the airflow of a fan (even sometimes hung to the rear view mirror of my car when traveling!).

I entirely agree with the above excerpt s of Yuly and Miles and in general with what they wrote, which seems very wise to me.

But I also agree that Donrad’s post is an idiotic hyperbole.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 05:38:27 pm »
One thing to keep in mind, is that our sense of taste and smell is highly influenced by our upbringing.
Stefansson described how the Eskimos loved rotten meat/fish, and compared it to a gourmet stinky cheese.
Although he is not the most credible source, Aajonus also described how Eskimo children loved high meat, and ate it like candy.
Therefore, it is plausible that we can not reliably use our sense of taste and smell to determine whether high meat is good for us.

As you say, Eskimos ate rotten meat/fish and compared it to a gourmet stinky cheese. Eskimo children loved high meat, and ate it like candy.

It’s clear that if they eat it, that’s because it tastes good to them and if they put it in their mouth first, it’s because they liked the smell, even if it may be stinking for someone else. I would say that our sense of taste and smell is highly influenced by our body needs and condition rather than by our upbringing.

Some stuff (high meat, for example) can smell good to someone at a given moment and bad to someone else. The smell and taste perceptions of a food varies: it’s something dynamic, unlike the perception of colors which is in a steady state.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 05:46:48 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 06:46:58 pm »
Actup you're the one with your head in the clouds. Paranoid, fantasising that everyone's conspiring against you. Did you say you used to smoke a lot of weed? Ahh I've become Jeremy Kyle!

Dima said his meat was in a jar, so the bits touching the side are not going to be exposed to air, and she said it was green which in my experience(including reading other's experiences) only happens if the meat isn't exposed to fresh air...

Tyler, Donrad's not on his 'last warning'. He only wrote that extreme 'possibility' to counter your complete dismissal of some things which are actually fact. If in defending high-meat you're going to dismiss facts(even the fact that something is a possibility, not only the fact that something is a fact), then he has to counter in the extreme opposite. You're right defending aged-meat, and he's right in attacking rotten meat. But he's not attacking what you're defending, and you're not defending what he's attacking. Responding without properly reading what each other have written is what has allowed this thread to descend into such a mess.

I think the advice about smelling and tasting is good. I'd not eat anything without smelling and tasting it first. What is 'foul' however might change with time. Something may smell strong and different, but if you can taste it, chew it in your mouth, and despite it tasting so different still feel it's ok to eat, then it probably is.

It's alright when people are arguing, and one person perhaps argues more extremely than what he really believes, and then the other person does so in the opposite direction, because they still balance each other out. But you can't do that and then threaten to ban someone, because that destroys the equilibrium. If you want to be in a position to make such threats reasonably, you need to first make sure you are completely balanced yourself.

  You are being far too generous. Donrad has previously attacked all aged meats unless they were dehydrated like jerky. And accusing actup of paranoia when Donrad has, in this and previous posts, suggested that anyone eating high-meat will die horribly and has  accused me and others of a mythical "rawpalaeo conspiracy" involving supposedly mass-murder, is basically pure hypocrisy.

Actually, actup's comment makes some sense, in a way. I have actually, in the past, come across trolls who felt it was their life's mission to convert us all back to the " one true path of a standard, cooked diet", as espoused by the FDA. Now they were of course not agents of the FDA, as such, but they were members of the public who were pissed off at our unconventional way of life and wanted to use any odious means necessary to make raw diets look bad - of course, they would always start off pretending to be mostly rawpalaeo, before gradually and more frequently suggesting that cooked was better, that "high-meat" was "dangerous" etc.


Well, post moderation not being an option, I suppose we will have to leave it to a full ban if similiar horsesh*t is peddled by him in future re the high-meat issue. 


On a more neutral note, I will say this re food-poisoning issues, as I have done a lot of research on this issue:-

1) A considerable amount of food-poisoning comes from eating aged, cooked foods.Canned foods(which are commonly heavily preheated) figure prominently in food-poisoning cases.  It has also been recommended by government health agencies to never place cooked foods together with raw foods, or to let cooked foods age. This makes sense in a way. According to AV, it is not the so-called "pathogen" which is at fault, but the environment so if bacteria migrate from raw to cooked foods, that would cause problems.So, cooked foods plus bacteria equals toxic food, while raw foods plus bacteria are generally fine.

2) Judging from reports, most fatalities or serious food-poisoning occurrences happen to people who are particularly vulnerable already(ie very young infants, or very old people, with health-problems already present).

3) I think this is what KD was thinking of:- namely, if a particular person, say, had severe health-problems(eg:- chronic decades-long diabetes along with major heart-disease, strokes etc.) and then suddenly switched to a raw food diet, then, if, say, a sudden minor detox occurred(giving the usual common flu-like symptoms such as mild fatigue or headache or whatever), then the sudden, minor added stress to that sick body might give that very person a heart-attack or stroke, due to temporarily overloading the body's defences. Temporary detoxes do commonly occur when switching to a raw diet - these happen far more frequently if one is eating almost wholly raw, and are much less likely if one is loading the body with lots of cooked foods as well.This would not make "high-meat" "dangerous" as such, as many other things in foods or habits could cause such heart-attacks or whatnot to someone already in a dire state of ill-health.


Now, the way I see it, "high-meat" is, anyway, mostly only recommended for RVAFers who have been raw for at least a year. This means their bodies are already used to fresh, raw meats. Now, so far, I and others have routinely mentioned this 1-year wait as a caution. There have been a few exceptions where high-meat was recommended at an earlier date(with the caution added, though), but that was usually for people who appeared to have failed with all other approaches and had severely wrecked digestive systems which needed decent amounts of foreign bacteria to solve the problem. Donrad is a  retard for suggesting probiotics as an alternative to high-meats as the vast majority of  RVAFers have reported not benefitting from most probiotics, except perhaps for the high-quality EM products, and report doing far better with "high-meat".

As for me, I have only had very occasional instances of so-called food-poisoning before and after going rawpalaeo. Previous to rawpalaeo, it was always cooked foods, mostly cooked shellfish, which gave me serious food-poisoning issues. Since going rawpalaeo I have had only very, very few, mostly minor, food-poisoning issues in the last 9 years. 2 minor ones came from buying raw fish from 2 very dodgy supermarket-chain-stores - these had a nasty, unusual repellent taste in them, not found in any other raw fish I've had, so obviously had had chemicals added to them, and I clearly reacted to the chemicals as I have never had issues with aged, raw fish.  I also got a 2-day diarrhea experience after eating some so-called "organic" fruit from the odious local Tesco's supermarket store, and am reasonably certain that they had used some preservatives/chemicals on them, given Tesco's dire reputation re organic foods etc.. My only other  food-poisoning issue came about after foolishly eating a so-called organic christmas pudding, which I had foolishly not cooked beforehand, thus resulting in 2-3 days of stomach-aches.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 07:12:36 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,070
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 07:18:07 pm »
I opened 5 different highmeat jars today and ate a small piece from each, and had a fairly Mary Christmas, My dreams were extremely weird and I was dancing on some loft balcony at some inchanted resort over an ocean of sea demons, a couple of nights ago I went on an Arctic journey to hunt the ice dragon, Besides that kind of weirdness I haven't had any issues with high meat. If I don't eat enough fresh meat with my high meat I will get extremely hungry. I went to Christmas dinner without eatting anything before, besides a couple of eggs and high meat and by the time I got home I was starving.

I have noticed differences between the different jars of high meat I have. If it grows allot of the green mold on it I usually throw it out, and some of it has a fruity taste that gives me good energy but makes me feel a little weird. I now have a jar that I have been using for the last 11 months, once its about empty I will just throw some more meat in and let it quick rot on the counter for a couple of weeks, It produces the best tasting and most positive effects so I try to keep that strain alive.

I do often wonder about aberrations of highmeat that contains an imbalance of mold toxins, but from my experience you do build a quick tolerance to it and it has immune stimulating benefits that outway the risk, at least in my personal experience. I haven't had food poisoning and have not been sickend by high meat, in fact I don't get sick like I used to at all, everyone else in my family gets the winter colds and viruses, and  when everyone is all stuffed up and run down for a week straight I will only experience a day of felling a little down, I know its the same bug that is making some people bed ridden , but I am not effected by it as I would have been prior to this diet, This is the first Christmas season in years that I have not been ill with something and I give thanks to both the raw diet and high meat.

The mild poisoning caused by eatting high meat that is a little unbalanced could still provide a positive overall effect and perhaps the experience could leave one more able to handle and purge toxins in general. when I first started eatting high meat IT gave me loose stools , but after about the 4th time my digestion was so much improved that I wasn't bothered by it, especially because I felt so good. I think I had such a poor gut ecology and was so overrun  with pathogenic organisms that I needed high meat to prime my guts immune system and purge out the harmful organisms. I can only claim this from my own experience, but from testimony's from others and even seeing Av himself use high meat for years without killing himself should provide proof that its reasonably safe to try.

Did Dima start out by eating only a pea sized amount and then slowly inceasing the amount, I first started by using a marble sized amount and after I didn't feel anything for a day I ate about a teaspoon and that was enough to trigger the high effect as well as loose stools at first.

I have limited experience with narcotics but I am sure that high meats work in a completely different way, the fungal, mold, and bacterial, toxins, trigger the release of serotonin, which helps elevate mood, well being and immune function. While narcotics just numb the nerve centers with opiates that cause a release of dopamine and is overall detrimental. I think because the serotonin release is triggered by eating organisms that are naturally present in decayed flesh, it may have been something that evolved with us at the time our ancestors were the most primal and were eatting large amounts of animal flesh, the boost in serotonin does strengthen the immune system and is beneficial to the nerves in the gut. Artificial serotonin re-uptake drugs seem to damage the bodies capacity to make and use serotonin, were as high meat seems to increase the bodies capability to make and utilize serotonin.

 I call my high meat primordial soup, because I let it age until liquid and scoop off the slime and eat it while the solids are left to mature. Like the kimodo dragon with its mouth full of flesh eating bacteria, I too have a gut primed with flesh eating organisms. I can tell after I eat high meat my stomach can empty itself of a large meal in no time, while as if I don't use high meat for a few days I can feel full for hours. Also I will get a thick saliva after eatting high meat and it thoroughly cleans my mouth and I can feel an overall increase in the production of digestive juices. For some one who is more carnivorous like myself high meat does seem almost necessary for me to be able to digest completely the 2.5 to 3 pounds of fresh meat I eat every day. I may be able to get the same digestive benefits by just aging my fresh meat until it gets a little high but I have found that eatting a small bit of high meat before a large meal is so convenient and effective.  
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 12:18:17 am by sabertooth »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline quietmule

  • Scavenger
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
    • The Crumbs of Society
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 09:56:50 pm »
you know, when Homeland Security shuts down this site, their excuse is going to be "danger to human health" or something, using our high meat arguments as evidence. hahaha.

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,070
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 10:32:30 pm »
We are still years away from them shutting down free expression over the web, but I agree that there are some really powerfull forces that have an interest in shutting people like us up, but the genie is too far out of the bottle, so until internet two is established, and everything is run directly through some government control panel,( possibly within the next few years) we are relatively free here to rave about rotten meat here, thank God
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2010, 12:56:17 am »
as per usual, this is the precise unmoderated bullshit I am referring to coming from Igunna and now Miles on taste/sense dogma into high meat discussion which has 0 relevance and comes from 0 experience with the issue at hand.

causing maximum judgment on what amounts to a MEDICINE, not something with requirements or precedents in nature among perfectly healthy people.

the ONLY 'high' meats that are to be considered relevant are those long fermented in traditional ways by traditional peoples and then co-oped modern versions by Aajonous in his jars/airing process.

There is absolutely no way that meats prepared this way will smell good to any westerner or taste nice to anyone who has not been ingrained with such health and taste perception because it is all about internal bacteria reflecting those conditions. The very concept includes producing foreign medicinal bacteria to basically go to war within that system thus indeed changing it. The high meats I had didn't so much as taste bad but instantly destroyed the bacteria in my mouth creating some kind of burning and gagging response after they got in the 3 month range. This of course contrary to all religious ideas around doing what is pleasurable instead of what is necessary, results in good health, like all the other uncomfortable cleansing and such procedures that go against our senses, desires, and even intellect about what seems right sometimes - often not needed by people millions of years ago.

Waiting towards implementing such a medicine 'prematurely' towards the desire of taste or smell, is always going to be defacto useless and assumes falsely that other approaches achieve this otherwise, which clearly is not the case if people will continuously find it revolting on every attemt prior to this changeover and traditional peoples do not.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2010, 01:09:33 am »
There's only one N and two A in my name, thanks.  ;D

You forgot Yuli.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2010, 01:18:16 am »
There's only one N and two A in my name, thanks.  ;D

You forgot Yuli.

yuli actually thinks for herself, and made a compelling argument you can't trace back to any textbook hygiene book about the 'complexity' of the issue not its default problem with tasting bad.

also doesn't to my knowledge follow such things unilaterally. 'caution' isn't the issue here as being irresponsible.

---
apparently my spelling is all you have to say regarding medicines and the like.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2010, 01:23:02 am »
As far as Donrad and his "dead men don't tell tales", that's nonsense. if someone cacked from this stuff it would be all over the papers as someone would find the jar of rotten meat in the fridge.

My neighbour from Tibet told me that they enjoyed their meat especially when it turned blue. Same with butter, they would save some for 10 20 years and it was a delicacy.

Don I have to wonder what you think our not too distant ancestors did. We have only had fridges and freeze dried packaging for a incredibly brief period of time in history. Salting was not an option everywhere, bottling is also a relatively recent invention.

Do you believe that we all lived on air or killed a cow once a week. Humans have eaten rotten food successfully for who knows how long.

The CDC only tracks what it's masters ask it to track. The data that goes into the Centre is what it is fed. If somebody eats food that was laced with so much antibiotics that it makes them sick, then the CDC doesn't record that someone got sick from eating a dose of antibiotics. The lazy bum who records what happened to the dead person wants to get home at 5 PM so if someone ate meat so long before they died, guesses are made.

If you read "The Untold Story Of Milk" you are confronted with lots of tales like that. Medical history is laced with people who drew conclusions based on their level of knowledge at the time in history that they lived.

In Pasteur's day the church crowd and the best medical minds had everybody believe that infections were due to "Spontaneous Generation".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation.

We laugh at it nowadays, but back then it was serious stuff.

There was a very large mountain to move in making people of the time believe that infections were bacteria based. Now that whole paradyme has shifted too far the other way.

I wonder if the stink of high meat wouldn't be changed if the meat were kept in sheep's guts as they were in days gone by?
Cheers
Al

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2010, 01:35:40 am »
also doesn't to my knowledge follow such things unilaterally. 'caution' isn't the issue here as being irresponsible.

Please proof read your posts, this is incomprehensible.

Quote
apparently my spelling is all you have to say regarding medicines and the like.

I would have a lot to say, but I've got no time to waste in arguing again with you. You should calm down and be civil instead of aggressively  insulting your fellows raw dieters again.  
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,070
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2010, 01:35:46 am »
The carnivorous ancestors who ate rotten left overs or even the Eskimo children who ate rotten fish had no need to use the concentrated version of AV style high meat, they would of acquired the benefits of earth microbs early in life and would have not had their digestion destroyed by antibiotics.

I will state again, that I was dosed with poisonous antibiotic drugs at least 50 times before I was 18 years old, starting at the tender age of 6 months, and for someone like me drastic steps had to be taken to correct the imbalances I had. I am willing to deal with the strong taste of highmeat if it means that soon after I feel its benefits.

 So I am recommending high meat as a dietary medicine that could in some people be able to strengthen the immune system to a level where they can heal and live without the need of harmful drugs, and I am claiming that it improves digestion for those who want to adapt to eating large amounts of raw meat. Revolting to the taste bud or not I stand by my experience with high meat and endorse it.  As long as people follow the basic safety protocol and start slow there is no danger of being poisoned to death.

 If you try small amounts and cant live with the taste or get some weird side effect then you can throw the rest out and give up on it. The choice is up to the individual. I may be reckless in recommending it to newbees, but I do so based on my personal experience in which I went directly into eating 2 pounds or more of meat a day and completely eliminated all non paleo foods from the diet, and even avoid most carbs. I often wonder if someone has issues with high meat it could be from some wrong combinations of foods, or there may be differences that cant be accounted for based on limited information.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline ys

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,323
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2010, 01:39:38 am »
Quote
Humans have eaten rotten food successfully for who knows how long.

that's just your personal guess since no one has any proof of it whatsoever.  but i do know that fishermen at some areas go to sea every single day just to have something to eat that day.  why can't you go hunting every day?

just for mental exercise, let's say there is a tribe 30-40 people.  a group of hunters brings back medium size prey let's say wild boar.  there would be nothing left of that boar in 3-5 days.  

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2010, 01:41:57 am »
Please proof read your posts, this sentence is incomprehensible.

I would have a lot to say, but I've got no time to waste in arguing again with you. You should calm down and be civil instead of aggressively  insulting your fellows raw dieters again.  

English is not even your native language. There is nothing wrong with my sentence. You cannot admit your 0 experience with high meat disqualifies parroting your dogma about food tasting nice, and it to the detriment of people that actually want to do things to improve their health and not be exposed to such closed minded talk that doesn't take into account shifting variables and needs in modern times - like sabertooth is pointing out.

You shouldn't be mentioning this crap ever outside of the instincto forum, and if the other moderators don't want to mention anything about it because of whatever desire to placate the elders, so be it, but that is obviously the case. The fact that you couldn't' wait 1 day without spewing the same inexperienced judgmental crap is so telling that you learned absolutely nothing, and can't even see that my above claim has any residue of truth to it about the changing circumstances of contemporary peoples to blanket ideals.

calm? your posts reak of emotional ruin man and defensive attacks towards me. meanwhile it takes me 5 seconds to collect an argument that actually has content in it beyond our disputes.

My answer is here. Iguana
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 01:37:46 am by Iguana »

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2010, 01:44:12 am »

Waiting towards implementing such a medicine 'prematurely' towards the desire of taste or smell, is always going to be defacto useless and assumes falsely that other approaches achieve this otherwise, which clearly is not the case if people will continuously find it revolting on every attemt prior to this changeover and traditional peoples do not.
  I'm afraid that the above shows considerable bias! For one thing I recall in the past being able to differentiate taste-wise between "good" "high-meat" made in partially aerated conditions and those "bad""high-meats" which I had very occasionally left in an entirely unaerated environment(ie "vacuum-packed) - and which had a different, toxic taste. Also, I quickly got used to (if only specific) types of "high-meats". For example, I find that "high-meat" made from raw, 100 percent grassfed ox heart tastes very much like a delightful, very smelly raw cheese, once matured. I even remember my own father who, despite being on a SAD diet, absolutely adored the taste of the very smelliest raw cheeses in France.

Also, in palaeo times, it would have been impossible to avoid eating a great deal of aged raw meats in the diet given the lack of refrigeration(even some "high-meat" during times of famine), so their instincts would have been less twisted by the presence of modern processed foods.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2010, 01:46:32 am »
 I'm afraid that the above shows considerable bias! For one thing I recall in the past being able to differentiate taste-wise between "good" "high-meat" made in partially aerated conditions and those "bad""high-meats" which I had very occasionally left in an entirely unaerated environment(ie "vacuum-packed). Also, I quickly got used to specific types of "high-meats". For example, I find that "high-meat" made from raw, 100 percent grassfed ox heart tastes very much like a delightful, very smelly raw cheese, once matured. I even remember my own father who, despite being on a SAD diet, absolutely adored the taste of the very smelliest raw cheeses in France.

Also, in palaeo times, it would have been impossible to avoid eating a great deal of aged raw meats in the diet given the lack of refrigeration(even some "high-meat" during times of famine), so their instincts would have been less twisted by the presence of modern processed foods.

sheesh. how can you miss the general point again here, of course one should discern between good and bad, but at the end of the day you can't discount whole practices just because they seem not the most pleasurable between doing something and doing nothing.

my whole point was saying that the acquire taste is reflected in the changeover of bacteria, and prior to that it will likely taste bad. so lacking any experience it will likely taste bad, and not overcoming that intellectually will avoid that change.

So basically when I said 'defacto', the state of waiting till high meat tasted good  - and not overriding through intellect - would generally for most people remove them from the process entirely. Most people here would say to their detriment, but even if that cannot be proven, the issue is the scorning of the abilities of the brain over the senses here is obviously incorrect. This is not unique to high meats, or general nutrition, but certainly never to medicine for unwell contemporary peoples when even animals seek out such things in lieu of their most pleasurable foods.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 02:09:44 am by KD »

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2010, 01:51:07 am »
that's just your personal guess since no one has any proof of it whatsoever.  but i do know that fishermen at some areas go to sea every single day just to have something to eat that day.  why can't you go hunting every day?

just for mental exercise, let's say there is a tribe 30-40 people.  a group of hunters brings back medium size prey let's say wild boar.  there would be nothing left of that boar in 3-5 days. 
I'm afraid you are making a false assumption. For one thing, extreme local weather would prevent daily hunting, at times, especially during winter, and there was an Ice-Age for much of the Palaeolithic era - plus, palaeo peoples routinely had to follow migrating herds etc., and were routinely faced with times when food was plentiful as well as times when food was scarcely available, given changing seasons etc.. So, it would have been logical from a survival point-of-view for them to store some raw meats(make them into jerky or eat them in "high-meat" form etc.) during times when hunting was successful.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Possible high-meat poisoning/questions
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2010, 02:27:43 am »
that's just your personal guess since no one has any proof of it whatsoever.  but i do know that fishermen at some areas go to sea every single day just to have something to eat that day.  why can't you go hunting every day?

just for mental exercise, let's say there is a tribe 30-40 people.  a group of hunters brings back medium size prey let's say wild boar.  there would be nothing left of that boar in 3-5 days.  
You obviously live a city. So you are saying that you can go out every 3 - 5 days and get a boar. Get a grip. Hunters don't head out to a barn and shoot a cow inside. They have to go looking, and that is why it is called hunting. Sometimes animals are found only once in a while. You can't just go looking for an anthill in the middle of winter in Canada. This life is in your face. It's the real thing, no mental game.

My friends have airplanes and rifles and motorboats to find animals because it's difficult to find them. That's why aboriginals ate every part of the animal.

Are you suggesting that all groups of humans were 30 -40 people?

One guy I flew with grew up in a family in a remote area where fishing was a way of life. They had motor boats and fishing rope and lines. Those were all a recent addition to the arsenal of humans. Even so you do not go out fishing every day especially in the fall and spring or in winter gales unless you have rocks in your head or a death wish. Sometimes storms last for weeks. Witness the storms this year in eastern Canada.

What do you think haggis, sauerkrout, beer, wine alcohol, rotten whale meat (that someone from Iceland posted on one thread) my friend's yak meat, rotten butter, the list goes on. That's just what I dreamed up in a one minute post.

If you were to extricate yourself from the cozy apartment or house in suburbia and actually take your hide out to the countryside where no one else lives and away from Walmart and Starbucks you would discover that first you'd have to make some tools to kill with (remember no knives and rifles) then you would be incessantly trying to find food so therefore moving to different hunting areas with the seasons, hauling the "missus" and the "younguns" from hunting areas to hunting areas means you have to eat food that you have stored. If you eat old rotten food you can't just dart down to the "Emerge" ward to have your guts pumped.
Cheers
Al

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk