Author Topic: Chocolate?  (Read 12294 times)

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Offline SoulJourner

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Chocolate?
« on: February 14, 2011, 05:24:28 am »
In the new products list I got in November, a source for raw cocoa beans is listed.  I understood AV didn't recommend any chocolate at all, instead carob is a substitute.  Does anyone know if he has changed his stance on that?

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2011, 06:33:35 am »
I doubt it to be honest.. As much as I wish chocolate was good for me  ;D
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline Caveman

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2011, 07:00:24 am »
I'm personally not so worried about what's truly paleo and not (even though I mostly stick to paleo, if I find some other raw foods in their natural state can be good for me, I will eat them). I like to focus on all raw and only the healthiest foods. However, some foods like chocolate/cacao, even in it's natural state, can cause problems for some people like me. It seems to affect my adrenals especially.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 01:41:29 am »
I am not a chocolate lover at all but I remember a recent thread about some 108 year olds, with links to videos on them. One guy gave a bunch of dietary recommendations and one was chocolate.

He doesn't specify quantity or form although I doubt he is talking about Laura Secord.

Check it out.
Cheers
Al

Offline RawZi

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 03:31:18 am »
    AFAIK he still does not recommend what might be called nerve irritants.  Try the fresh fruit, not the bean.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Ioanna

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 08:46:07 am »
here's my chocolate story...

before i started getting better (1.5 years ago now) i was getting so sick no matter what i seemed to eat.  full of self-pity, i thought 'f-it' and decided i would eat some chocolate.  i chose 100% (baking) chocolate bcz i knew sugar, milk, etc would absolutely kill me, so, expecting horrible consequence i ate some of this chocolate.  it worked wonders for me!!! turns out chocolate slows colon mobility (with ibs i am the complete opposite of constipated, everything would go right through me).   maybe that's why it worked? 

it was like a 'medicine' for me.  i'd a little raw meet, about an ounce of chocolate, and my bowels were so perfect!   the downside.. chocolate is so stimulating for me!, well i find food stimulating. after eating i am so ridiculously full of energy.  but chocolate is even more, and fake energy i'm sure.  also, i started getting headaches within a couple months, and i never get headaches, so i knew it was the chocolate and time to let go. 

so i'm not proud of it, but i feel like it did a good thing for me, though, in getting my digestion back on track and very quickly (initially, anyway). 

another thing is that i tried raw cacao too thinking it would be somewhat healthier.  (like if i couldn't be paleo, i could at least be raw?!?)  this was no good!!!!, the raw cacao caused all kinds of ibs-type inflammation.  so i stuck with an organic baking chocolate.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 11:00:00 pm »
here's my chocolate story...

before i started getting better (1.5 years ago now) i was getting so sick no matter what i seemed to eat.  full of self-pity, i thought 'f-it' and decided i would eat some chocolate.  i chose 100% (baking) chocolate bcz i knew sugar, milk, etc would absolutely kill me, so, expecting horrible consequence i ate some of this chocolate.  it worked wonders for me!!! turns out chocolate slows colon mobility (with ibs i am the complete opposite of constipated, everything would go right through me).   maybe that's why it worked?  

it was like a 'medicine' for me.  i'd a little raw meet, about an ounce of chocolate, and my bowels were so perfect!   the downside.. chocolate is so stimulating for me!, well i find food stimulating. after eating i am so ridiculously full of energy.  but chocolate is even more, and fake energy i'm sure.  also, i started getting headaches within a couple months, and i never get headaches, so i knew it was the chocolate and time to let go.  

so i'm not proud of it, but i feel like it did a good thing for me, though, in getting my digestion back on track and very quickly (initially, anyway).  

another thing is that i tried raw cacao too thinking it would be somewhat healthier.  (like if i couldn't be paleo, i could at least be raw?!?)  this was no good!!!!, the raw cacao caused all kinds of ibs-type inflammation.  so i stuck with an organic baking chocolate.
Hey, any port in a storm.
Ayurveda considers a huge number of things as an antidote. Tobacco believe it or not is prescribed as well as coffee etc. Naturally quantities may not be enormous but whatever works.

I think you should be proud that you figured out for yourself rather than to descending to pharmaceutical band-aids.

One girl's meat is another girls poison.
How are things nowadays?
Cheers
Al

Offline Ioanna

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 07:35:12 am »

I think you should be proud that you figured out for yourself rather than to descending to pharmaceutical band-aids.


thanks raw-al! 


How are things nowadays?

very well, but i want to be able to eat fruit and veg! :D  every time i 'experiment' it still doesn't work :P   

Offline raw-al

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2011, 09:20:38 am »
Sadly fruit and berries have a not so good effect on me. I basically rarely eat them.
Cheers
Al

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 12:15:11 am »
Why do some people give a fuck what AV said again?  >D

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2011, 03:28:15 am »
Why do some people give a fuck what AV said again?  >D

You mean the alternatives he mentioned in his book?

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2011, 10:10:12 pm »
No, in general.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2011, 11:00:40 pm »
Why do some people give a fuck what AV said again?  >D
Because, unlike with other dietary gurus, his advice has (sometimes though not all the time) proven very useful to people as regards improving their health.
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Offline achillezzz

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2011, 11:55:58 pm »
What is avs opinion on chocolate in general??

Offline RawZi

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 11:36:41 pm »
In the new products list I got in November, a source for raw cocoa beans is listed.  I understood AV didn't recommend any chocolate at all, ... 

    He doesn't usually recommend onions or garlic either or a number of other "foods", but every once in a while he recommends something unusual to someone.  I get this perspective from talking with many primal dieters who have personal diet plans from him, one at a time.  Maybe cocoa beans are on the list; because he has recommended cocoa as some type of treatment to a couple.

phenylethylamine, have a stimulating effect. However, the truth

    Are you taking the leptin pills you sell yourself?

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Offline Iguana

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 04:13:39 pm »
Yeah, chocolate is definitely both paleo and raw...  ;D
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline KD

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 11:43:12 pm »
In the new products list I got in November, a source for raw cocoa beans is listed.  I understood AV didn't recommend any chocolate at all, instead carob is a substitute.  Does anyone know if he has changed his stance on that?

   He doesn't usually recommend onions or garlic either or a number of other "foods", but every once in a while he recommends something unusual to someone.  I get this perspective from talking with many primal dieters who have personal diet plans from him, one at a time.  Maybe cocoa beans are on the list; because he has recommended cocoa as some type of treatment to a couple.




Right. There is a huge difference between promoting a product as health forming and saying something can function as a specific tool for particular conditions or just simply be a minor vice in moving along on a health path. If someone is bit by a snake, it makes very little reason to fuss over toxic properties of the antidote. Seems to me the essence of AV's teachings are less pressing versions of this concept..using foods and larger aspects of diet ( fat burning etc..) to heal problems and remove compounds that were non existent in nature and go beyond the scope of a traditional diet.
 
To my knowledge cacao is seen more or less as toxic by AV but so is any kind of cooking or most processing pretty much unilaterally as well, despite popping up here and there in recomendations. People dwell on Aajonuis mention of breads and cooked starches and some of these appear on those product lists. So what?
 
What it comes down to is certain things are ultimately not important in the context of doing the crucial steps for increased health, and part of the whole point of what makes Aajonus approach unique is its emphasis on tools and processes indifferent to what can be simplistically labeled as "natural" as these approaches did not work for either him or his clients over decades of practice.
 
By and large he is against powders, oils and almost all heating and processing, but the things that happen to be (in his opinion) exceptions from such things are based on objective analysis of what works for a modern person..and not about blanket theories of good or bad. Oils, juices, and blenderized things feature sometimes even prominently. The big truth is these things can work to balance or nurture in ways that other foods cannot and should not be defacto criticized without actual analysis of the results.

Because, unlike with other dietary gurus, his advice has (sometimes though not all the time) proven very useful to people as regards improving their health.

Mostly people seem to react unnecessarily negatively to what are basically specific suggestions for people with extreme conditions...so if they don't work or arn't necessary on the individual level people are always free to eat whole foods and disregard such things. Often times maybe these thigns do lack evidence or are just plan wrong, at least on their indiviodual level, but if it works for one person its worth having an open mind. In my analysis, what is more obvious is more often than not people ARE NOT honest about what level of health these 'purist' decisions bring and will for whatever reason hold on to theories about what should be best. Since there is no pretention of following a diet that is completely natural in Primal Diet, just that basic understanding and flexibility presents a far more healthful mindset while following the necessary steps to get well - steps which coincidentally can easily be skipped entirely on many interpretations of a raw whole foods diet..hence vegan interpretations etc...Of course any extreme diet -primal or purists - can also lead to obsessions over doing the 'right' thing, and AV is probably very responsible for that in some ways.
 
In a nutshell, people miss the whole point as to what factors and important process are for healing. A little even knowingly toxic (if that turns to be the case) chocolate is far more healthful than diets that don't specifically tackle disease, no matter how 'natural" or raw.
 

Yeah, chocolate is definitely both paleo and raw...  ;D

Was this bumped for some relevant reason? non-raw and non-paleo discussions are allowed on this board and in this sub-forum.

Its possible to process 100% raw cacao, its just rarely done as it is not profitable and its effortless to label most processing raw and get away with it. Certainly the cacao fruit/nut is far more ancient/paleo than a kiwi, broccoli etc..



Offline reyyzl

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Re: Chocolate?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 04:25:20 am »
Yes, it was bumped because a troll left an irrelevant message just before. I deleted the troll's comment only praising chocolate. Obviously by all their other comments on this forum they have never read that we might be paleo or raw.

Something on rare occasion aajonus recommends is vanilla, as organic vanilla.  On this item I have not seen him specify raw, although he does specify that on all other foods I've seen besides the ones mentioned here by KD for certain limited purposes and instances depending on what AV sees in their health.  I have not asked, but I would think the reason he has not put raw for vanilla could be that it being organic is more important for the specific healing purpose, than waiting to find a truly raw source in every way.  I saw this by my own other experiences I've had with herbs, healing and many ways edible plant products are treated with either chemicals and or other substances by man.
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