Author Topic: Feeling and looking a bit seedy  (Read 10707 times)

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Offline Josh

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Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« on: February 17, 2011, 08:18:04 pm »
Been doing raw paleo VLC for 5 weeks now and sticking to it. Longer than I've truly managed low carb before.

I eat up to a kilo of meat and fat a day, less if I don't feel like it. Top quality grass fed mince/ground beef as it comes, with occasional heart and tongue roughly the same proportion of fat.

Have had 4 oysters on the weekend twice in that time.

30g carb a day, mostly from butternut squash and a few times from fruit.

I went through about 3 weeks of feeling fantastic, high libido looking good. I am eating fairly high protein, and think this made it easier to stick to than 70-80% fat that I tried before.

To be honest now though I feel slightly under the weather. Not terrible, I can get through the day ok, but not very good.

The skin on my face also looks worrying. On higher fat diets, my skin always looked great. Now it looks a bit aged, and is quite porous.

So the question is, push through it or change something? And if so what?

No answers like, 'just change to my version of raw paleo' please! I know people can do well on what I'm eating or other diets, so trying to pin down what exactly could be the problem.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 08:33:07 pm »
Well, all I can suggest is doing an elimination diet to see if there's any food causing this issue, or adding or removing carbs/fats, or adding more variety perhaps. Or maybe it's a temporary detox of some sort, in which case things should improve within 2-3 weeks at the very most, probably much less. Since adding or removing carbs/fats seems the simplest approach, you could try those ideas for now, to see if that works.

Minor idea:- maybe you are having some sort of reaction to the raw, ground meats, in which case perhaps try some non-ground meats instead. Some RVAFers have complained that butchers routinely use meat-knives which are regularly washed with the help of some nasty chemicals, and these chemicals can get into raw, ground meats.
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Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2011, 08:38:06 pm »
Sounds like your digestion is really taxed. Pores are usually a really good representative if something is off with your digestion. Clogged pores, clogged digestion.

Try reducing the amount of meat you are eating.. 1kg is a lot. I only eat about 500-600 grams and I train 2 hours a day.

Instead add lots of raw eggs, raw cream and raw vegetable juice and a few fruits.

Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 04:40:20 am »
I agree with 4tH, 1 kg per day is a lot.  I typically eat about 500 grams, and like 4tH I am quite active, training in mixed martial arts and barefoot running nearly every other day. 

You might think about a short (1-3) day fast to let your digestive system clean itself out a bit, then ease back into a lower level of calorie consumption to see how you feel.  Even though I am very active, I probably only eat 1500 kcal per day.  That's enough to give me plenty of energy and keep my weight creeping upwards as I slowly add more muscle mass while keeping a solid layer of fat under my skin.

Offline Josh

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 06:03:03 am »
Thanks for the answers. I'll try changing one thing at a time.

I think it's likely to be the amount of meat so will try a fast and reducing it.

I was trying to avoid the starvation mode I had before, but I guess that's not all to do with amount you eat.

I think raw cod liver oil may have helped me get more energy from food somehow, but that's just a guess.

So I'll do that first, then try playing with the ratio of fat and carb if necessary, then look at other things.

I think variety could be worth doing, but I have a feeling it's a macro issue not nutrient deficiency...maybe variety could be the icing on the cake. So I'll stick to the beef and organs for now and see how it goes.

Offline miles

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 07:41:29 am »
How big are you Sitting Coyote?
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Offline Caveman

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 08:50:09 am »
All I can do is share what helped me. I am guessing you have low energy/fatigue and skin problems?

I'd been on Raw Paleo for about 2 months. I also had a period of time which was around 3 weeks long where almost all of my problems vanished but soon returned and seemed to get worse, even with experimenting with different ratios of meat and fat and such. Then, I realized basically all of my problems were related to my chronically low testosterone. When I started working on boosting my testosterone and minimizing any estrogen intake or exposure in any and every way possible besides using steroids, things went great once again (no more acne after years of suffering from severe, cystic acne and sometimes no fatigue at all). My hormones are still a bit shaken up and some days are much better than others, though. During this time I've also been doing lots of raw dairy and almost no meat as well (my meat order has been held back for at least 2 weeks due to being short of some things). Now, I don't know where your current testosterone levels are at, but I am sure they could use a good boost in any natural way possible..

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2011, 09:10:07 am »
How big are you Sitting Coyote?

Just hopped on the scale and it said 137 pounds.  I didn't eat today though (I only eat if I feel hungry, and today I never felt hungry so I didn't waste time eating).  I also just got home from MMA training, and earlier this afternoon went for my longest barefoot run so far (about a mile over snow, slush and ice).  If I had eaten today, or if I hadn't worked out, I suspect I'd be at least a few pounds heavier.  When I started RPD in December 2009 I weighed about 110-115 pounds, as a point of comparison.

Offline kurite

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2011, 09:41:45 am »
I just want to make sure. Your eating 70-80% cals from fat not by weight, right?
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Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 09:54:25 am »
I just want to make sure. Your eating 70-80% cals from fat not by weight, right?

You asking me, or someone else?

My typical meal is a pound of deer meat/tendon with some GF-GF cattle suet and a small dab of raw honey to make it palatable.  I'd guess 60-80% of my calories come from the fat, the rest from muscle/tendon and other foods I eat during the day like a piece of fruit.

Offline kurite

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2011, 11:09:55 am »
You asking me, or someone else?

My typical meal is a pound of deer meat/tendon with some GF-GF cattle suet and a small dab of raw honey to make it palatable.  I'd guess 60-80% of my calories come from the fat, the rest from muscle/tendon and other foods I eat during the day like a piece of fruit.
No sorry the q was directed to Josh. But I do have a question for you. Did you have trouble gaining weight before raw paleo? Also if its not to personal how tall are you?
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Offline Josh

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2011, 03:23:40 pm »
I am eating about 60% calories from fat.

Offline King Salmon

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2011, 04:11:00 pm »
All I can do is share what helped me. I am guessing you have low energy/fatigue and skin problems?

I'd been on Raw Paleo for about 2 months. I also had a period of time which was around 3 weeks long where almost all of my problems vanished but soon returned and seemed to get worse, even with experimenting with different ratios of meat and fat and such. Then, I realized basically all of my problems were related to my chronically low testosterone. When I started working on boosting my testosterone and minimizing any estrogen intake or exposure in any and every way possible besides using steroids, things went great once again (no more acne after years of suffering from severe, cystic acne and sometimes no fatigue at all). My hormones are still a bit shaken up and some days are much better than others, though. During this time I've also been doing lots of raw dairy and almost no meat as well (my meat order has been held back for at least 2 weeks due to being short of some things). Now, I don't know where your current testosterone levels are at, but I am sure they could use a good boost in any natural way possible..


Interesting, but how do you control hormone levels?Are you using supplements or herbs?
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Offline Josh

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2011, 04:28:14 pm »
I'm interested in this as well Caveman. I don't think it's my main problem, but could be useful in general. Do you want to share the things you do?

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2011, 09:01:39 pm »
Did you have trouble gaining weight before raw paleo? Also if its not to personal how tall are you?

I had a terrible time gaining weight before raw paleo, and an even more terrible time keeping my weight stable.  Before I started RPD, the most I'd ever weighed in was probably 120 and my weight often fluctuated between 100-120.  I'm 5' 8" tall, so you can imagine that fluctuating that much when already being so skinny was not remotely healthy.  Since starting RPD, weight started a very gentle upward trend and the fluctuation has stopped.

Offline Josh

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2011, 11:14:45 pm »
I didn't eat any meat yesterday, but I did have the feeling to eat some courgettes and drink water. I felt clogged up and eventually voided some stuff and felt a bit better.

So I think the problem was constipation. I hope that can be avoided by eating less and is not another issue.

I did some research on laxatives to clear me out, and decided to eat some fat; butter as I couldn't face munching suet for some reason.

I'll see how that goes. I might drink some coffee later as it seems more benign than some of the herbal laxatives. I'm trying to avoid fibre based ones, as I'm shifting to a lower fibre diet anyway so can't rely on roughage cleaning me out.

Offline Caveman

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2011, 12:02:51 am »
Interesting, but how do you control hormone levels?Are you using supplements or herbs?


You need to control your exposure to chemicals which mimic estrogens, such as plastics (especially water bottles, the water becomes toxic), many artificial fragrances and deodorant type products. Phyto-estrogens are present everywhere in plant food, but there are those which are much more abundant in these substances that should be avoided. Flax and soy have probably the highest levels in any foods, but  since we are here on the Raw Paleo forum, I don't think that should be much of a problem, unless you include many vegetables and possibly supplements in your diet.

Raw meats are automatically at least a little bit of a boost to your testosterone levels, especially because of the great mineral contents like zinc and magnesium which should help our health overall. So, I think most people who eat a mainly carnivorous diet on here feel better partially from a hormonal effect along with all of the other benefits.

Increasing fat and, especially, cholesterol intake is a very important part to boosting your testosterone levels. Of course, this is all as long as the foods come from healthy animals. Adding intense physical activity/training can really help as well, as long as it's not done too much, but that depends on the person. Something very critical, especially to me, is good sleep. When you sleep properly, your body is going to produce the most testosterone along with growth hormones. I've personally suffered from insomnia for years, as in, sometimes I would get no sleep at all. This had devastating effects on my health. Also, stress will stop your body from producing testosterone.

I did go on herbal supplements and am on my third week. I now know just how low my testosterone levels have been for years. I needed an extra boost. The herbal supplements I use should cause no problems in the future, like dependency, and I believe many of these herbs have been used around the world by various cultures for a long time for their benefits. These herbs just stimulate the production of testosterone, often indirectly. I cycle through 7 different supplements/herbs, taking a different one every day. This is the only way to make sure you keep getting benefits from them.

Some days are still better than others, and when I feel good, I feel good altogether. So, when I have more energy, I'll also have more sex drive, be in a much better mood and sleep very well. This is all about the hormones for me. Maybe it's not a primary thing you need to focus on, but if you have all of the symptoms of low testosterone or estrogen dominance, you should probably pay attention to everything that affects your hormones.

You did say you have skin problems, right? Do you have dry skin?

I had severe cystic acne for years and feared that boosting my testosterone would make things worse. Going on Raw Paleo already helped me tremendously, but didn't have a lasting effect because of the state of health my body was in. Once again, when I feel good overall, my acne completely clears up, completely due to the hormones. I would have severely dry, flaky skin. For me, more testosterone = more oil production = less acne. This all depends on what side of the hormonal imbalance you are on, though.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 04:58:18 am by TylerDurden »

Offline Coatue

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2011, 03:18:22 am »
You asking me, or someone else?

My typical meal is a pound of deer meat/tendon with some GF-GF cattle suet and a small dab of raw honey to make it palatable.  I'd guess 60-80% of my calories come from the fat, the rest from muscle/tendon and other foods I eat during the day like a piece of fruit.

How much fat in pounds do you eat daily Sitting Coyote?

Offline Josh

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2011, 03:40:46 am »
Caveman, which herb gives you the best effect?

If I was going to only try one once a week or so which would it be?

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2011, 07:15:34 am »
How much fat in pounds do you eat daily Sitting Coyote?

No where close to a pound.  Probably just a few ounces.  I don't weigh it, I've developed a sense for how much is "enough" and add that much to the lean deer meat/tendon mix. 

Fat is very calorie dense by wet weight, much more so than any other food because it is normally low in water content.  Fat is 9 calories per gram by dry weight and usually 10 percent or less water.  Muscle meat (protein) is 4-5 calories per gram by dry weight, and usually 70-80 percent water.  So a half pound of muscle meat doesn't give you very many calories if it is lean.  Heart, liver, kidney and other organs might be a different story though, as they are naturally higher in fat.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 03:10:33 am »
Heart, liver, kidney and other organs might be a different story though, as they are naturally higher in fat.

Heart and liver aren't higher in fat than muscle meat, but kidneys (with the fat attached) are.

Offline miles

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Re: Feeling and looking a bit seedy
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 04:03:31 am »
Heart and liver aren't higher in fat than muscle meat, but kidneys (with the fat attached) are.

He's probably talking about wild animals?
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