Author Topic: Instincto Vegetables?  (Read 11350 times)

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Offline goodsamaritan

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Instincto Vegetables?
« on: April 02, 2011, 05:44:34 pm »
What are your favorite and recommended to try instincto vegetables?
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2011, 06:01:41 am »
Try all and don’t’ be afraid to spit if it tastes bad! You may like some that I don't like: we all have different needs, and moreover it may change with time and the quality of particular ones – one carrot can be bad while another one may be good.

I can tell you which ones I currently like best, but that's personal:
Peas, round cabbage, tomatoes, red pepper, a variety of sweet potatoes, celeriac, fennel, carrots, pursiane. Sometimes cauliflower, broccoli, spinach.

But most of these are hardly available in the tropical places I know. Okra is a tropical vegetable which is not bad.



Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline jessica

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 11:28:08 am »
use your instincts brother

i instinctively could eat romaine lettuce until i hallicinate(no joke, opiates!)
as well as green peas, jicama, fennel, purslane, dill, cilantro, parsley, radichio, endive, onions, leeks, okra(it grows very well in the southern united states, i have grown it) jerusalem artichokes, green beans, fresh harvested carrots(sometimes radish too, like RIGHT as they are picked, you can let the seed pods on radish mature into spicey peas, excellent) cucumber, zuchinni, winter squash(mostly heirlooms as they are not super sweet) ...totally a partial list, i really love green, bitter and not very starchy veggies though..i always forage berries, rose hips, currants and greens and roots when they are in season..fresh grape leaves are really tastey
veggies have different nutrients, health and medicinal benefits, definitely only in season makes the most sense...and local, wild harvested, self grown or organic if you can......
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 04:24:31 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 02:58:31 pm »
I'm now eating an orange sweet potato raw for the very first time.
And I must say it tastes pretty good.

This is all tied to my previous post about my body looking for raw starches I guess.  I need to venture out and try more raw vegetables!
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Offline Susan

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2011, 07:10:15 pm »
Try all vegetables you can get. But if it's possible try wild herbs, leaves and roots, too. The natural instinct works with wild plants much better than with cultivated vegetables.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 09:56:28 am »
This is a good question from GS, since GCB doesn't thoroughly discuss veggies in his English-language writings that I've seen and instead focuses much more on tropical fruits.

GCB has said in this forum and elsewhere that he recommends tropical fruits in part because he believes they are likely most like the fruits of what was humanity's "original" tropical-paradise habitat to which we would be genetically adapted. For example:

"The very concept of instinct is a genetic one. To sort out the matter required first defining what could be termed man's initial dietary bandwidth, i.e. the kind of foods that our ancestors came across in their primitive habitat in the far-removed times when our genetic background was evolved." --GCB, Anopsology

"This deficiency in the local array would also be a reason to think that our bodies are better adapted to tropical climates, where lacks neither cassia nor the fruit best suited to the human palate such as coconut, durian, jackfruit, cempedak, safu, papaya, mango, custard apple, longan, rambutan... the list is long and far more pleasant than the colder climate fruits range." --GCB, RPF

the wild fruits of the temperate land (apples, pears, corms) are often much more inedible than tropical fruits in the wild (cempedak, jackfruit, coconut, durian, avocado, etc.). This would be a reason to think that we are better adapted to tropics than to temperate regions

"we are no longer placed in an environment close to the one where our genome evolved, thus a series of precautions must be taken". --GCB, http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/instinctoanopsology/explain-instincto-diet-fully-2/70/?wap2 and
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instinctos-tropical-paradise/msg39888/#msg39888

(Translated from French)
"These comments were obviously reassuring: the original environment in which the instinctotherapy way of life was necessary was something real to which our genetics have adjusted. But why are these areas [full of edible wild tropical fruits] so rare on the planet? Simply because there are few apes left practicing [unconscious] permaculture. Like when they eat fruit or other natural food, they carry a certain amount with them or in their hands or in their gut, so that the seeds spread and they thus spread the plant species they prefer. They create and reproduce and, over time, create the food environment that suits them. As our tastes are very similar to theirs, then it is only in the regions where these primates [flourish] that we find edible wild fruits, ie suitable to our taste buds and the rest of our body." --GCB, Fruits sauvages au kilomètre, Instincto Magazine, 43-44, Juillet-Aout 1991, http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/IM43-fruitssauvages.html  [In other words, humans are much like frugivorous apes and our natural "original environment" was bountiful in fruits of the type that frugivorous apes prefer.]

Presumably therefore, he would recommend tropical veggies too, yes? Do you know which tropical veggies he recommends beyond okra?

He mentioned the following veggies in Anopsology:

tomatoes: "The tomato is native to South America. Genetic evidence shows the progenitors of tomatoes were herbaceous green plants with small green fruit and a center of diversity in the highlands of Peru" where the "climate is dry and temperate" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato and http://www.hotelessanagustin.com.pe/Peru_Travel_Guide.pdf
red cabbage: "It can be found in Northern Europe, throughout the Americas, and in China." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Cabbage
chicory:  "It lives as a wild plant on roadsides in its native Europe" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicory
carrots: "the wild carrot Daucus carota, native to Europe and southwestern Asia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrots
celery: probably Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celery
spinach: "native to central and southwestern Asia"
potatoes: Andes mountains (mostly temperate to cool climate)
sweet potatoes: native to the tropical parts of South America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_potato

The only veggie mentioned that appears to be native to a warm tropical environment is the sweet potato, and even that is a New World plant, rather than one originating from or related to a plant in the regions of Africa where most of the genetic material of homo sapiens sapiens is hypothesized to trace back to (along with a current estimate of 1-5% of matrilineal DNA tracing back to Eurasian Neanderthals, which could rise somewhat in the future as more evidence is acquired).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 04:50:40 am »
Presumably therefore, he would recommend tropical veggies too, yes? Do you know which tropical veggies he recommends beyond okra?

I don't think he would recommend to eat any particular foodstuff because it would be in contradiction with the very principle of instinctive nutrition. What he recommends is to smell and perhaps taste the widest possible range of stuff. Some people will find a vegetable tasty while the same veggie might be repulsive for someone else.

But it' true that there isn't a lot of known tropical veggies. I mentioned okra, there are perhaps a few others tropical edible plants beside some palm trees cores, sweet potatoes and yakon. I wrote elsewhere that I once ate raw manioc, which is said to be toxic raw but it didn't cause the slightest trouble to me.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 05:44:15 am »
I don't think he would recommend to eat any particular foodstuff because it would be in contradiction with the very principle of instinctive nutrition.
I don't mean a single food, I mean an assortment of foods from which to sniff and taste. He has provided an assortment of tropical fruits to choose from, I'm just asking if he has done the same thing anywhere re: tropical veggies.

Quote
But it' true that there isn't a lot of known tropical veggies. I mentioned okra, there are perhaps a few others tropical edible plants beside some palm trees cores, sweet potatoes and yakon. I wrote elsewhere that I once ate raw manioc, which is said to be toxic raw but it didn't cause the slightest trouble to me.
Thanks for the possible examples, Francois. Palm tree cores, aka heart of palm, look interesting:

Quote
> Heart of palm is often eaten in a salad, sometimes called the "millionaire's salad."
>  France is the largest importer of hearts of palm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_palm
I'd like to try that some day. I think I've seen it in canned form in a supermarket before. Presumably that would not be raw, however.

While yacón can grow in hot, tropical climates, it is actually reportedly a perennial plant native to the temperate Andes of Perú (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yac%C3%B3n, http://www.seedambassadors.org/Mainpages/still/kapulerfieldtrip/Yacon.htm), so according to GCB's writings, it would not necessarily match "man's initial dietary bandwidth" the shaped our "genetic background," which he has described as the foods of "tropical climates." GCB and GS have piqued my curiosity about what the native vegetables of tropical climates are, especially of Africa, reportedly the original habitat of our tropical ancestors (H. sapiens sapiens and earlier African ancestors--not Neanderthals, which reportedly inhabited Eurasia and the Middle East). One sees so little about this interesting topic. Maybe GCB or someone at Paleocru would know more examples?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Instincto Vegetables? Craving Singkamas... I never liked before!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 03:11:10 pm »
Thanks!

My starch cravings continue and it seems this time I've found favor with Singkamas.



http://www.stuartxchange.com/Sinkamas.html

Add some shrimp bagoong (fermented shrimp) and ta dah, starch cravings get fulfilled.

The funny thing is in the past, meaning, the WHOLE of my life, I NEVER EVER liked SINGKAMAS!!!

I need the great experienced instincto interpretation of this RPD evolution.

My cravings are now becoming specific.

It's no longer fat - protein - carb for me.

I now look for a certain quality in that specific food item.  I look for certain food items.

And I'm not happy until I find it.  

I noticed my starch cravings are also met with chico fruit.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Instincto Vegetables? Craving Singkamas... I never liked before!
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 01:55:22 pm »

The funny thing is in the past, meaning, the WHOLE of my life, I NEVER EVER liked SINGKAMAS!!!
I need the great experienced instincto interpretation of this RPD evolution.

Yeah, that's a quite common phenomena. Our needs change with time along with our body condition: we are not static objects. That's why we should never say "I don't like this or that" or conversely " I like this or that", but rather "I'm not currently on this or that" or conversely "I'm currently on this food or that one".

The second attitude leaves open the possibility for a change in our needs and therefore a change in our taste, so that we constantly experiment with the smell and perhaps taste of food that we didn't like before.

We are not in a static Universe: everything changes with time, including people and our perception of (and relation with) any individual may change as well - just like with food!  See what I mean?
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 12:09:14 pm »
I don't mean a single food, I mean an assortment of foods from which to sniff and taste. He has provided an assortment of tropical fruits to choose from, I'm just asking if he has done the same thing anywhere re: tropical veggies.
Thanks for the possible examples, Francois. Palm tree cores, aka heart of palm, look interesting:
I'd like to try that some day. I think I've seen it in canned form in a supermarket before. Presumably that would not be raw, however.

While yacón can grow in hot, tropical climates, it is actually reportedly a perennial plant native to the temperate Andes of Perú (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yac%C3%B3n, http://www.seedambassadors.org/Mainpages/still/kapulerfieldtrip/Yacon.htm), so according to GCB's writings, it would not necessarily match "man's initial dietary bandwidth" the shaped our "genetic background," which he has described as the foods of "tropical climates." GCB and GS have piqued my curiosity about what the native vegetables of tropical climates are, especially of Africa, reportedly the original habitat of our tropical ancestors (H. sapiens sapiens and earlier African ancestors--not Neanderthals, which reportedly inhabited Eurasia and the Middle East). One sees so little about this interesting topic. Maybe GCB or someone at Paleocru would know more examples?

I've went back and read over some of the older instincto threads and after reading this one I would just like to add that in the Tropics there are countless edible greens growing - it's just that they are not cultivated and sold. In the tropics there are more wild greens to eat than one could imagine. Many of them are known only to the few adepts. Going on a wild food walk in the tropics is overwhelming to say the least.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 06:26:49 am »
Given that, and GCB's praise of S/SE Asian tropical fruits and eating foods and his apparent belief that the foods of that area are like those of our ancestors ("The very concept of instinct is a genetic one. To sort out the matter required first defining what could be termed man's initial dietary bandwidth, i.e. the kind of foods that our ancestors came across in their primitive habitat in the far-removed times when our genetic background was evolved."), it's strange that he doesn't discuss tropical veggies more.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 11:35:13 am »
... it's strange that he doesn't discuss tropical veggies more.

Quite a few tropical plants have chemicals that can make you sick, even from just touching them.  You really have to know your stuff before eating tropical veggies.  Tropical fruits, not quite so much.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 08:44:49 pm »
So do you think that GCB therefore thinks that veggies weren't a big part of the ancestral diet, despite Dorothy's opinion on tropical greens?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 10:31:26 pm »
So do you think that GCB therefore thinks that veggies weren't a big part of the ancestral diet, despite Dorothy's opinion on tropical greens?

Humans don't have the kind of gut necessary to eat very large amounts of greens.  Small amounts, yes.  But we're not like gorillas, who have quite a bit more intestines that we do, per body height/weight. Greens have to be fermented to be digested, and our guts don't allow for that.

That's actually pretty standard science, there's not much disagreement on that even among orthodox nutritional researchers.

Believe me, greens are pretty difficult to digest in large amounts, I've tried it.  The antinutrients tend to be problematic too.  They tend to cause autoimmune skin problems in me, and I'm sure all kinds of problems in other people.

As far as other veggies, I don't think we really are very good at digesting them.  We're meat and fruit eaters, I think, although many people also do very well on seafood (I get most of my protein from wild-caught seafood).  Everything else should be eaten in small amounts, if at all.

Offline Hanna

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2011, 12:53:53 am »
I've went back and read over some of the older instincto threads and after reading this one I would just like to add that in the Tropics there are countless edible greens growing - it's just that they are not cultivated and sold. In the tropics there are more wild greens to eat than one could imagine. Many of them are known only to the few adepts. Going on a wild food walk in the tropics is overwhelming to say the least.

Hi Dorothy,
Interesting. But how do you know? Have you ever been in the tropics on a wild food walk? Did you eat only raw food in the tropics? And did you eat much vegetable there?

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 08:29:04 am »
Hi Dorothy,
Interesting. But how do you know? Have you ever been in the tropics on a wild food walk? Did you eat only raw food in the tropics? And did you eat much vegetable there?

Hi Hanna,

What Cherimoya said about having to be extremely careful is accurate. The only way to do it safely is to have someone with you that really knows their stuff. I did that and still made a mistake. I was never confident enough after that to get a great deal of my food from my natural world in the tropics like I was in the North East where I grew up and knew the plants generally well enough to feel confident. If you grow up in a place with the plants and people indigenous to that place show you which plants are safe and which ones not and which ones to use for healing it becomes second nature and is safe and a natural part of life. Up north I lived with those plants as a child and knew them on a level I never felt I would get to when staying in the tropics. I was a transplant and never really did take root. ;-) Maybe if I were to move to the tropics again, stay longer and find another teacher?

As far as how much greens, fruit, animal foods - when you are out and about and taking your food from nature in a place and with plants that you know well it becomes intuitive how much to eat and pretty easy. You know the plants, you know your body and how much feels good and at what times of year and which parts etc. The plants in a way tell you. It really is tremendously fun and there is no nutrition quite like it. Eating one leaf of wild plant for me packs more power than a whole bowl of agriculturally grown leaves. It can be transformative. My body just loves wild greens. The sad thing is that where I am living now there are almost none. As a matter of fact - there's not much green of any kind this year!

Hanna - are you in the tropics? I found someone that literally lived off the land and knew the plants inside and out. Try to find someone like that and stick to them like glue. And here is a BIG hint. Never eat more than one tiny leaf or flower etc. of any new plant and wait a day. I had an allergic reaction to a plant that was ok for others but ate too much as a novice. It was at the end of the day and I was tired too and was overfull with information so wasn't on my game. Only eat plants when you are aware, open, refreshed and strong. Double check always with your teacher at first that what you are about to eat is what you think it is. Only try 2 or 3 new plants at the most during one walk. One would be best. You can listen to what is being taught, but only eat one little leaf when you go out and learn about that plant entirely so you take home with you a deep knowledge of one plant. Even if a teacher talks about 50 plants - really get into your head just one and into your body just one. If you keep on doing this it will do you more good than you would imagine. I've been on many walks where I tried to take in everything just to come home with nothing. This goes for even if you have a private guide. They usually want to tell you everything that they see. When you come to one plant that speaks to try to stay with that plant longer, take a specimen if you can. Look it up in books and the internet. Try to plant some in your yard or a pot. This is the way to really make the plants your friends if you can do this. It's what I decided I will do in the future. For instance, here, I found a chili piquin plant (a native pepper that grows here) and planted it in my yard and cared for it over a few years. I now know what that plant, flower and fruit look like every time of year and at all stages of growth since it made babies. I feel confident with that plant.

Best of luck to you!

Offline Hanna

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2011, 02:18:56 pm »
Hi Dorothy,
No, unfortunately I do not live in the tropics (although I like hot temperatures and some tropical foods!). But I´m interested in the question whether paleolithic humans (who presumably originated in Africa) ate a rawfood diet and what their diet could have looked like...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 07:01:55 pm by Hanna »

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2011, 11:44:04 am »
Ah - you mean before the landscape turned to grassland - a tropical Africa?

Are there any hunter-gatherer societies located in the tropics that have been studied? I'd imagine the diet would be similar no?


Offline Iguana

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Re: Instincto Vegetables?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2011, 02:34:13 pm »
They all cook nowadays.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

 

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