Author Topic: New with a beginner challenge  (Read 7362 times)

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Offline alycia

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New with a beginner challenge
« on: April 20, 2011, 10:37:30 am »
Hello everyone!
I am new and have too many questions - so i have spent most of my time reading past posts  ;)  with a little activity in some threads  :)

Has anyone (I'm sure there has) come into this diet with success from a primarily raw vegan diet?  If so how did you transition in? 
What did your daily eating look like (brk, lunch, dinner or only 2 meals day etc...)?


I'm used to only eating raw vegan (fiber) foods. 
So i am not sure if it is best to keep doing what i am doing (adding egg yolks and 1 raw meat dinner a day - to a less veg diet) or is it better to just jump in and only have veg's juiced and eat raw meats and egg yolks?


Any idea's or tips on how you did this and made it work?

Thank you so much!!!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 10:39:26 am by TylerDurden »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 10:42:56 am »
Well I would not recommend juicing veggies as people seem to have far more problems with raw veggie juice than with raw solid vegetables.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline alycia

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 02:50:34 am »
Well I would not recommend juicing veggies as people seem to have far more problems with raw veggie juice than with raw solid vegetables.


Really ???
I thought plant fiber was bad, so juiced would be better?

I also thought veg's ("juiced" kale, collards etc..) would give me the calcium i need b/c i just cannot do dairy. 

Is there a good "animal" food source for calcium?


Offline klowcarb

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2011, 04:18:35 am »


Really ???
I thought plant fiber was bad, so juiced would be better?

I also thought veg's ("juiced" kale, collards etc..) would give me the calcium i need b/c i just cannot do dairy. 

Is there a good "animal" food source for calcium?



I  would not worry about calcium if you are not eating grains. The RDA is set artificially high because grains  take calcium from the bones. I would not bother with juice at all.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2011, 04:45:37 am »
Bone marrow, shellfish and egg yolks (http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Egg_Yolk.html) contain calcium.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2011, 05:47:51 am »


Really ???
I thought plant fiber was bad, so juiced would be better?

I also thought veg's ("juiced" kale, collards etc..) would give me the calcium i need b/c i just cannot do dairy. 

Is there a good "animal" food source for calcium?


No, the idea is that juicing the veg not only makes the nutrients more bioavailable but  the antinutrients as well, thus causing health-problems due to deficiencies.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline alycia

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 10:37:47 am »
Oh my I never thought of that Tyler  :o
Thank you for bringing that up!!

Thank you low carb and Phil about the calcium  :)

Phil - you know you are one i want to hear from on this.  What's your opinion based on your experience with a similar condition -  do you think it is better to just jump in full force and cut out the veggies and fruit and just go with raw meats, eggs, avocado's and other good fats?  Or do a gradual transition from a raw diet?
How did you start, is it in your journal?

Offline MoonStalkeR

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 10:42:34 am »
If you plan to consume raw veggies regularly, I suggest juicing them. Like you said, the fiber can be very tough and result in additional problems. As an example, raw celery should probably be avoided due to the tough cellulose strands that cause a multitude of intestinal problems. The solution would be to juice, or perhaps, cook the vegetables.

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2011, 10:59:25 am »
Hi Alycia,

That's cool you're coming from raw vegan diet. Normally I would suggest to people who are new to raw animal foods to definitely do the juices, and lots of them, heavy on the parsley and cilantro, but since you've been getting a lot of raw plant foods already there's a good chance that your system is pretty clean, that's where plants excel, cleaning you out. Raw animal foods do too, but in different ways than plants.

Also regardless of what anyone tells you, including myself, your foods for optimal health will be different than every other person on the plant, you're totally unique, your genes are, and so it will eventually boil down to just what works for you. With that said there is a lot of overlap, most people if not everyone, require plenty of raw animal fats, that's just the way it is. Most people do well with at least some supplementation of raw, non root veggies (root veggies are ok imo, but should be limited due to sugar content). Some people do well on dairy, but that is highly variable. You may also even though you don't think you do now, because your body, from the lack of quality pastured animal fats in your diet, will need some time to heal. You can retry foods that you have ruled out, as you progress through your journey of healing. I have raw dairy customers who can't drink anyone elses' milk, even raw and grass fed because they don't tolerate it, but our cows are 100% grass fed, heritage guernsey and brown swiss, in other words, they're relatively old school as far as cows go, this is a good thing!

So, keep doing what you're doing, read and study lots, I would also recommend Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A Price. He traveled during the early 1900's around the world studying tribes living on traditional, nutrient dense foods and their kin who moved in to the city and/or adopted modern diets of white flour and refined sugar, these latter would then develop all the diseases of civilization while the former would maintain excellent health, with straight, strong,  usually white teeth and no degenerative diseases like cancer. Furthermore the WAPF website is a wealth of info on why animal foods from PASTURED animals is so important and how they differ ecologically and nutritionally from their modern factory counterparts.

Do not let anyone tell you this or that food is not right for you, you can see the proof for yourself by experimenting. It will take a long time, but it should be an enjoyable ride when you see yourself making progress. Milestones to look for are improved mood, more energy, better life outlook, and you should be getting sick less and less (or experience less maladies) as you heal. If you're not making progress, then it's time to switch something up and question what you think you know. Good luck!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 12:53:34 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2011, 07:44:46 pm »
... do you think it is better to just jump in full force and cut out the veggies and fruit and just go with raw meats, eggs, avocado's and other good fats?
Why do you want to cut out all other fruits and veg? I also eat berries, parsnips and occasional greens and other raw veg, BTW. I tried pineapple today and seemed to handle it better than in the past, though not perfectly well. I speculate that nutrient-rich animal foods like raw marrow, egg yolks, liver, fermented CLO, wild salmon and fermented honey may be upping my levels of important nutrients like K2, enzymes and probiotics and enabling me to handle more fruits and veg.

Quote
Or do a gradual transition from a raw diet?
Every individual is different, as mentioned.

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How did you start, is it in your journal?
I think so. I gradually went lower and lower in carbs and gradually ate more of my animal foods raw, then I did a sudden big dip in remaining plant foods and then a sudden big dip in cooked foods, then I gradually added some plant foods back and then added a few heated/rendered foods. I tend to make changes in ones or twos to better determine what effects the changes have.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 03:45:51 pm »


Really ???
I thought plant fiber was bad, so juiced would be better?

I also thought veg's ("juiced" kale, collards etc..) would give me the calcium i need b/c i just cannot do dairy.  

Is there a good "animal" food source for calcium?
If fearing calcium shortage ground up some organic egg shells in a morter till absolutely powdered then desolse 1/2 teaspoon in a glass of water/juice. Contains plenty magnesium too.
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline alycia

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2011, 12:56:54 am »
Why do you want tregularlyo cut out all other fruits and veg?


I so don't want to unless it would help my elimination -\

based on what i have read from those who practice RAF (on this board) - the best "completed" digestion happens on LC diet of raw meat, eggs, and other fats. I have had a really hard time making "meals" out of this  :'(
And definitely not digesting this diet with comfort and ease.
I did "dive in" to the LC RAF for 1/2 week then really felt the need to have a nice steamed sweet potato tossed into a raw zucchini, apple, ginger salad topped with egg yolks  :)
I felt great afterwards and did not wake up the next day feeling ugh like lately with all the meats  ???

**If i could only find a food combining method to keep plant foods & animal foods in each meal i would be where i want to be and i bet feel a lot better after the meal. 

According to AV's book he only recommends raw veg. juice and a rare low fiber salad all based on it inhibiting digestion

Is it really going to be a disaster to regularly have raw meats in a raw low fiber salad? 

I am supposing Phil you eat your meats alone away from the parsnips etc...?

Thank you for sharing your experience  ;D





Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2011, 04:42:35 am »
Why do you want tregularlyo cut out all other fruits and veg?
Hey, I didn't write "tregularlyo"! LOL

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based on what i have read from those who practice RAF (on this board) - the best "completed" digestion happens on LC diet of raw meat, eggs, and other fats.
For some; I find that too much meat and fish constipates me, even ground meats, surprisingly, so there are differences between individuals and you may be well served to find out what foods constipate you, if any, rather than go only by other people's experience.

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I felt great afterwards and did not wake up the next day feeling ugh like lately with all the meats  ???
If you feel better with that approach, then why not lean towards it? You could even try eliminating the sweet potatoes to see if they're really necessary or not. I don't think it's as much of a certainty as some think that cooked tubers are not Paleo or benign. I lean that way, yes, but then I'm biased because I don't do well on them, nor does Tyler, nor Robb Wolf. Others, such as Don Matesz and Matt Stone, report thriving on them. On the other hand, Matt has lately been recommending wheat, which is ridiculously bogus (it's one thing to say someone may be able to tolerate a little wheat if processed a certain way or if of an heirloom variety, but it's quite another to recommend it as a healthy food l) ).

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**If i could only find a food combining method to keep plant foods & animal foods in each meal i would be where i want to be and i bet feel a lot better after the meal.  

According to AV's book he only recommends raw veg. juice and a rare low fiber salad all based on it inhibiting digestion.
I've found value in AV's recommendations of easily-digestible foods, but I'm skeptical of his magical food combination claims.

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Is it really going to be a disaster to regularly have raw meats in a raw low fiber salad?
It appears to depend on the individual.

Quote
I am supposing Phil you eat your meats alone away from the parsnips etc...?
It's somewhat random for me, but I generally do something like down a couple raw eggs, then chow down on a raw parsnip, then eat ground beef with marrow or lard or an egg yolk and sometimes some raw honey spread on top or mixed in. Sometimes I'll have some greens like watercress on the side or eat them right with the beef, the way wild chimpanzees do. ;D Sometimes I'll have mashed avocado with a couple egg yolks and a couple tsps raw honey. Avocado still make me burp, though, so they may be a suboptimal food for me. The more honey I add to avocado, the less I burp (but the more that probably contributes to my dental plaque). Lately I've also been trying bone broth, once with parsnips in it.

Quote
Thank you for sharing your experience  ;D
You're welcome. It may not turn out to match yours very well, but at least it shows there's a wide range of experiences.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 05:26:03 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline alycia

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2011, 09:43:14 am »
Hey, I didn't write "tregularlyo"! LOL


How funny  :)
don't know how i did that! 

If you feel better with that approach, then why not lean towards it?

Ya, I need to stop reading some and listen to my own bodies book  l)


I've found value in AV's recommendations of easily-digestible foods, but I'm skeptical of his magical food combination claims.
It appears to depend on the individual.


okay good - it's not like scripture - so i will take it for what it is.  Also given our bodies are unique, as you have proven here along with some others.  Even though i am a girl i still find myself having similar results that you have with food.   

It's somewhat random for me, but I generally do something like down a couple raw eggs, then chow down on a raw parsnip, then eat ground beef with marrow or lard or an egg yolk and sometimes some raw honey spread on top or mixed in. Sometimes I'll have some greens like watercress on the side or eat them right with the beef, the way wild chimpanzees do. ;D Sometimes I'll have mashed avocado with a couple egg yolks and a couple tsps raw honey. Avocado still make me burp, though, so they may be a suboptimal food for me. The more honey I add to avocado, the less I burp (but the more that probably contributes to my dental plaque). Lately I've also been trying bone broth, once with parsnips in it.

Phil this is really helpful!  I am glad to see you are not dogmatic and it works for you to play around some.  I was getting the feeling that in order to get my digestion where i needed it I was going to have to cut out everything but animal foods.  Animal food has helped, i just can't over do the quantity like i was trying.  Seeing how you are "combining" foods without tragic results is refreshing! 
I have found red meats to digest much better than raw fish, i think it's the fat content. 
Pineapple is also very good, i am glad you are handling that better.   


Offline Ioanna

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Re: New with a beginner challenge
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2011, 11:27:03 am »
alycia, if i could digest meat with salad, avocado, all other stuff, then i totally would be eating this way!  i love salads!.. i really like kimchee!!  if it works for you, then enjoy your paleo feast :D 

i think skinnydevil has veg and fruit days separate from meat days.  some eat fruit all day, then meat at night. 

whatever gives you the most energy and happiness!

 

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