Author Topic: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit  (Read 18632 times)

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Offline achillezzz

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Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« on: April 28, 2011, 08:44:29 pm »
Quote
"You want everybody, athletes especially, to be able to burn fat efficiently. So when they train, they are on a very low carbohydrate diet."

..... With athletes, let's think about that. What is the effect of carbohydrate loading before an event. What happens if you eat a bowl of pasta before you have to run a marathon. What does that bowl of pasta do? It raises your insulin. What is the instruction of insulin to your body?

To store energy and not burn it. I see a fair amount of athletes and this is what I tell them, you want everybody, athletes especially, to be able to burn fat efficiently. So when they train, they are on a very low carbohydrate diet. The night before their event, they can stock up on sugar and load their glycogen if they would like.

http://drbass.com/rosedale.html

Maybe this is why when athletes go on paleo diet (low carb) their workout capacity and performance and health increase!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 11:21:45 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline zbr5

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2011, 01:13:02 am »
Hmmm... so whats the optimal nutriton in terms of pre- and post-workout meals?

Working out on empty stomach in the morning and getting quality proteins afterwards sounds good.
What do you think?

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 01:21:14 am »
I say take BCAA before workout on empty stomach... afterwards bomb protein

Before sleep if you are a professional athlet bomb carbs..(in pro sports its not about health but performance)
Or bomb with lots of animal fats and proteins so it will still release amino acids during the morning workouts.


Its kinda Intermittent fasting protocol

You wake up, you do what you do in fasted mode afterwards before a workout you take some amino acids, go to workout after that eat 3 meals the first one should be the biggest in my opinion. then you fast 14-16 hours after your last meal. Repeat (sleep time is part of the fasting hours)

Add more calories and you will bulk up clean like ffff man  you will be ultra lean!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 01:29:27 am by achillezzz »

Offline zbr5

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 05:37:02 am »
I did not know what BCAA is but just checked it in google and seems that is is a form of an amino-acid. By "taking it before workout" you mean it is good to buy the supplement or derive this AA from certain kinds of foods? If the latter, what food is rich in this?

I am not a pro athlet, I am rather lean and sporty (lots of amateur soccer), so my first goal would be to gain mass (in the form of muscles, not fat of course).

Intermittent fasting is what I know and what I do (I eat only in 10am - 6pm window).

So basically the only thing I am confused about is this BCAA thing. Can this be eaten naturally and why exactly is this important?


I just reread your post and I think that you suggesst that I should supplement this BCAA or the natural way is to eat carbs or animal proteins as a last meal so amino acids could be realased naturally for the morning routine. Am i right?

Thanks.


Offline bharminder

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 06:43:18 am »
I read once in this book called Body mind and Fitness by John Douillard that eating that typical carb meal the day before before a marathon or other strenous event, is a good idea, but it's best done at lunch time instead of night time. If you eat it late at night it may make you sluggish the next day, but at lunch time there is enough of a gap where you can properly digest/store all that food.

It made sense to me and seemed to resonate with some of my experiences of feeling sluggish the day after carb loading at night (of course that was during SAD days)

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 05:12:38 pm »
I did not know what BCAA is but just checked it in google and seems that is is a form of an amino-acid. By "taking it before workout" you mean it is good to buy the supplement or derive this AA from certain kinds of foods? If the latter, what food is rich in this?

I am not a pro athlet, I am rather lean and sporty (lots of amateur soccer), so my first goal would be to gain mass (in the form of muscles, not fat of course).

Intermittent fasting is what I know and what I do (I eat only in 10am - 6pm window).

So basically the only thing I am confused about is this BCAA thing. Can this be eaten naturally and why exactly is this important?


I just reread your post and I think that you suggesst that I should supplement this BCAA or the natural way is to eat carbs or animal proteins as a last meal so amino acids could be realased naturally for the morning routine. Am i right?

Thanks.



If you 100% raw paleo and doing high fat protein and you digest fat very efficiently your last meal can be only lots of fat/protein no need for carbs.
In my case I eat cooked paleo most of the times and I do alot of cardio ALOT! so I eat alot of carbs and proteins before I go to sleep.

I need it because I will have to do cardio in fasted mode on the next day.
If your type of training is all about strength and not too much cardio you will do ok with fats and proteins only(I think this will be even better for you because fats and proteins digest slow and if you eat alot of them before sleep they will still release their nutrients untill morning and keep you more stable during the fasted mode).
But if do low carbs remember to eat alot of fats.. or you will have no energy or cravings.

as for supplementing with amino acids before a workout well I believe its crucial for minimizing muscles breakdown.
If its questionable from an economic standpoint, you could also make due with some whey protein. or just some raw piece of fish before
a workout But eat it raw because it digest fast..

Protein will help you in your workout so you know its better to take some amino acids before.
Its also will increase the "anabolic effect".

Hope this helped.


Offline zbr5

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2011, 09:50:03 pm »
Yeah, it helps a lot.

What I can see available in good price is BCAA supplement strenghtened with L-glutamyne. I can buy this. Then my day would look like this:

Wake up 7 am. I never have apetite at this time.
I drink BCAA+LG ~ 9:15, do 30-40 minutes workout.
I eat protein rich (raw eggs based) breakfast at 10am.
2 pm I eat mediocore meal.
6 pm I eat big meal (raw pork or fish usually).
I do not eat anything afterwards and just go to sleep 10 pm.

The only problem is that I have big craving for sweet things in the morning (from 10am).
But maybe this BCAA supplement will work it out.

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2011, 10:22:35 pm »
If you crave sweets you need more fat especially grassfed high quality fat alot of it in middle of the day or evening.
Remember you are low carb, you put aside one source of fuel you need another.

BCAA will do nothing for your sweets craving maybe the L-Glutamine in it will but not the BCAA, you need fat.
Take the BCAA+LG 10 minutes before your workout remember you take it to help your muscles go through hard HIGH INTESITY workout not a lifestyle workout or something taking the amino acids long before the workout is useless.

My meal after the workout is almost same like yours but I add some fruits to the mix I drink it in a shake form.
and the next 2 meals are high carb high protein high fat all together to get my calories in for the next day I play ball so I have to do sprints almost 40 minutes a day!

Offline zbr5

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2011, 12:09:10 am »
OK. This is inspiring. I will keep you updated.

Offline cliff

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 10:31:28 pm »
Eating a very high carbohydrate diet increases glycogen storage by double, vastly increasing performance for people who need lots of fuel.  Dr bass is a moron.

Offline KD

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 05:37:51 am »
if you surveyed all the top athletes surely most of these would be using carbohydrate as their primary fuel source. For our purposes since there are plenty of examples of people eating no or little dietary carbohydrate it is factually correct that such are unnecessary for either endurance or strength or any other athletic trait. In other words the anecdotal evidence as well as the labratory/medical requirements are what suggest this. When it comes down to what is optimal for such, you are going to get a wide range of opinions but even these won't correspond necessarily with what is healthy long term nor are there any definitive answers. The definitive is that people do not require carbohydrates for any athletic pursuits so the argument is then in the direction of if they are optimal or not for best health or performance.

Most people that take things to such extremes like a mostly pure animal fat diet arn't usually going to do so based on some edge in performance. The reason is these things can be achieved much easier through short burst toxic foods and supplements as well as illegal drugs and that doing so is incredibly arduous for most both physically and otherwise. Again for our purposes, many times people that do choose such would not be able to perform athletically at all on higher carb diets. For them eating excessive carbs would merely cause a wide spectrum of problems and most importantly primarily inhibit proper assimilation of necessary fatty acids for healing..never-mind the extra efficiency needed for athletics which can take months/years - the main reason why most people bail on such attempts (particularly athletes).

For those that are without many health problems a CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) is still seen by some as an optimal way to put on body mass and in a way similar to how meat/high carb eaters (if/when they existed) could have eaten in nature. So even if there is value to overfilling glycogen with dietary carbs there is still suggestion that primary adaptation to fatty acids is best for our makeup, overall health, AND best athletic performance.

The ideal may be some varying level of carbs for the activity level of the person. It might be an issue of glycogen OR it could just be avoiding heavy protein need as a replacement, or in the advantages of the nutrition in the carbs themselves, but having excessive dietary carbohydrate is simply not necessary for either basic endurance or strength training.

In regards to what to eat before or after or such things..I have no idea but here are some other folks who are low to no carb. If I was anything other than a total hack non-athlete..I would probably refer to a guy like this for micromanaging my intake:

Keith Norris

http://theorytopractice.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/what-to-eat-prior-to-a-workout/

As well as others who restrict all types of carbs to various levels:

Ultramarthoner Jonas Colting:

http://www.carbwire.com/2009/06/15/swedish-triathlete-jonas-colting-low-carb-high-fat-diet-extending-my-athletic-career

ZC Marathoner Charles Washington


Kieba (endurance swimmer, bodybuilder)


then other Primal Diet BB's like Randy Roach (50) and Josh Trentine





---

of course some of these are not technically low carb by the strict definitions, and many of these people might intentionally use some carbs for their performance (as opposed to just eating them or for other health, nutritional purposes, or addictions) but they are all extremely low compared to other athletes int heir respective fields.

Also worth noting is almost all Mark Sisson and co and cross-fit type folks are low carb-ish, and not dealing with excessive glycogen through dietary carbs. These folks generally have both cardio and strength than your average amateur runner or athlete in my experience and seem much happier and healthier.

Again as per the point about Bass's article, I can't vouch for the healthful of any of these peoples' programs..only that they can and will perform on lowish carb to VLC to ZC.

People can also look to whatever other examples are on this forum as there is at least a few endurance and strength folks on some level.

Personally so far I have yet to figure out if dietary carbs have any potential positive effect at all on performance, just the obvious that eating such inhibits my ability to properly uptake the fatty acids which would make eating the way I do fairly non productive.


Offline achillezzz

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 03:25:57 pm »
KD bro I have 2 workouts a day which I barely survive :( I am not even sure what to do now
I'm even considering taking growth hormone or something to maximize recovery and increase muscle mass
I heard that if you know how to cycle steroids the right way and not abuse them you can get tons of benefits.

Lately I eat less carbs and I feel my digestion is much better but because of the workouts I feel always like in over trained state fuck this I know its not healthy to workout like this but what can I do to make my body adapt to this levels of stress??

If I didn't like ball so much I would drop this shit and go on a raw high fat like you to build max health and get fat happy and healthy:(

But for now I need to gain 10kilograms of muscle mass for the next year and I don't see any way to do it without carbs or steroids 

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 03:48:11 pm »
@achillezzz
If your recovery system in inadequate for you r current workout frequency than you should reduce your workout volume and/or frequency, not fuck up your body with synthetic hormones. Pardon my language. There is no way to use them without abusing them. Also it’s not necessary.

Clearly exercises twice a day is overtaxing your recovery system and reducing your workout intensity as you’re in a state of constant over training. Measure you upper arm, write it down. Do no exercise at al for a week and measure your arm again I guarantee you your arm will be larger because you finally allowed enough rest for growth. After that 1 week rest start doing a very basic 8-10 exercises full body workout twice a week. Do only one set of each exercise to utter muscular failure. Move between exercises without rest. Do this and you will start gaining strength/mass very rapidly without any synthetic aid. Also you would have a lot more energy for every day life in between workouts.

Don’t do steroids man, ever. It’s not worth it. I’ve helped a lot of friends of my reaching their training goals. Most of them gained 30+ lbs in a matter of months. If you want to know more about planning an intelligent workout program pm me.

What are your current body stats?
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Offline cliff

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 08:46:05 pm »
excessive dietary carbohydrate is simply not necessary for either basic endurance or strength training.


Overfeeding on carbohydrates increases glycogen stores from around 400g to 800g.  It might not be necessary but having all that fuel definitely helps to keep pushing it.  It really depends what kinda sport you want to do imo, weightlifters don't necessarily need a lot of fuel but for most competitive sports that last anywhere from 30mins to a couple hours the extra carbohydrates are gonna be a lifesaver.

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 09:06:38 pm »
excessive dietary carbohydrate is simply not necessary for either basic endurance or strength training.


Overfeeding on carbohydrates increases glycogen stores from around 400g to 800g.  It might not be necessary but having all that fuel definitely helps to keep pushing it.  It really depends what kinda sport you want to do imo, weightlifters don't necessarily need a lot of fuel but for most competitive sports that last anywhere from 30mins to a couple hours the extra carbohydrates are gonna be a lifesaver.
I agree larger glycogen store can be a benefit. But actually its the other way round. Glycogen in muscles is the preferred fuel for fast twitch fibers in anaerobic work (less than 1 minute), like weightlifting. Those stores are depleted very quickly and therefore do not significantly contribute to endurance. Endurance activity can either use carb (keep them coming) or use free fatty acids from body/dietary fat. A lot of people have noticed a decline in short intensive exercise performance on low carb.

If muscle glycogen is low the body must start to replenish it very early on in the workout. During very intense (weightlifting) exercise the muscles uses the glycogen faster than the body(liver) can suply. This reduces maximum possible exercise intensity and therefore results.
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Offline KD

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2011, 09:25:00 pm »
I'm not really in a position to defend that a LC,VLC,or ZC diet will be the best for say a professional basketball player, I just don't really see a convincing argument for why it wouldn't be other just the general challenges of converting and staying on such a diet. Being a certain required size I imagine would be more of an issue.

I agree larger glycogen store can be a benefit. But actually its the other way round.

This my impression based on what i've read that its basically the reverse. There just happens to be a shortage of people doing endurance activities in the present on such a diet, but one can just extrapolate from traditional peoples that these things are not an issue for activities that would have required both. Now for really building serious strength and mass or amazing feats of modern athletics I can only guess carbs and 'neolithic' foods in particular are a huge bonus, and likely one of the reasons they 'caught on'. People have to decide for themselves what is most natural activity or goal, but surely if one has those goals they should pick what works.

I havn't had issues with either going anywhere but up, but of course there is always room for improvement or doing something differently if needed. My strength always goes up in some increment and the other late night I was forced to run through a bad neighborhood home from a bus stop over one mile, ran full speed and generally the only running I do is a 500 k warmup run every so often at cf and my box jumps, metacon stuff.


Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2011, 09:31:57 pm »
We shouldn't forget that world-class athletes are genetically gifted freaks that would outperform the rest of us on any type of diet.
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Offline achillezzz

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2011, 11:07:49 pm »
Hit it raw check your inbox bro.

Offline Haai

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2011, 12:30:42 am »

After that 1 week rest start doing a very basic 8-10 exercises full body workout twice a week. Do only one set of each exercise to utter muscular failure.


Is there a maximum number of reps you recommend for that one set?
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Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 12:43:22 am »
Is there a maximum number of reps you recommend for that one set?
Ideal rep ranges depend on muscular fibre type. Most people however should fail between the 8th -12th rep.
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Offline zbr5

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 08:53:28 pm »
OK it is been over a week since my lost post and I must say that this system works great for me. It is only 8 days so far but results are already amazing. I do only 3v20 pushups a day but with IF and eating much of raw meats and eggs, it makes wonders.

I will post a photo soon!

Offline hilton

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Re: Don't eat carbs before workout its all bullshit
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 08:17:19 pm »
I usually eat carbs at least 2 hours before, and protein within an hour later on,
 if that's relevant.
I'm 22, not overweight, and besides the foregoing workout sessions, I don't get much exercise at all.

 

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