Author Topic: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...  (Read 19095 times)

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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2011, 09:52:52 am »
Aren't we digressing over to the pro-fruitarian / anti-fruitarian argument?

The original poster merely said that he/she didn't have problems eating fruit anymore.

I don't think the intent was to go overboard with tons of fruit or fruitarianism.

We're all here because fruitarianism didn't work for us.

Many of us here can't do animal food only / zero carb.
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Offline Modern Primate

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2011, 10:08:50 am »
well I can't comment to my existence but as for credibility on at least the theory and practice of fruitarianism I can say that I was on the vegsource board before the most recent fruitarian bible even came out and was practicing long before many of these neo gurus started.

I've met 5..possibly more people in the flesh that were listed as testimonials or otherwise proponents of the lifestyle in that book.

I was seen by many people as quite a success of such a diet actually..at least for a short time.

I've also read all of Arnold Eherets books and studied personally with many long term vegan rawfoodists..a few of which are quite off the map and some have a variety of 'seeing one part of the elephant' type knowledge which I have found to be somewhat useful.

Sounds good. I am reading a book about DNA by James Watson, who holds extremely contrairian views to mine (and probably the vast majority of people here). It makes me cringe inside, it upsets me. In fact I find Watson to be quite inaccurate at times so it is not very useful for learning new things about it. But I want to understand the enemy. For me Watson and his pro-GM stance is like Hitler. Actually you seem quite reasonable here, but I find your to my mind completely irrational suggestions about fruit, ie. such as the suggestions from your statements that you probably won't die from it, to be what I would call crazy if I believed in using that word.  

I also continued to eat a fair amount of fruit while eating raw animal foods and found that my experience lined up with the theories that both the LC and fruitarian folks were saying, that I could not eat a sufficient amount of animal fat per my healing progress that allowed me also to eat a large amount of carbohydrate from fruit. I also had most of the symptoms of vegan high fruit diets in terms of disposition, physique etc...despite 'feeling good' which is incredibly unreliable when it comes to simple sugars. Days of 0 fruit often remove those clouds.

Uhh.. I have to disagree hugely here. We don't like to eat stones or mud, no, we are attracted to fruit above all. It is NOT unreliable when it comes to natural foods, it is ONLY unreliable when it comes to artificial/processed foods. It is basically 100% reliable otherwise.

At this stage we are at a time that I would call: pre-GM Holocaust. Post GM holocaust hell, we won't be able to trust our instincts on even natural foods. This is what I am trying to mitigate or inhibit the damage of GM as much as possible.  

Despite the claims of yourself and others on the diet about such meeting requirements or not causing other issues with blood and tissue, I had medical issues coming out of the diet that were not there coming in particularly in terms of the very issues of carb sensitivity/fungal stuff which are seen as non issues when doing the diet 'right' or without fats etc...these themselves have taken years to resolve and i'm not alone on this board that has the same experiences.

I have never experienced anything like any of this ever. In fact, part of my motivation for eating as much fruit as possible is not to get into such a horrible state as others are in with these kinds of problems. I have been this way for ~ 4 years or so. I mean, I knew raw was best since before then and had periods of high or almost raw food but they were a bit fleeting and I might even have eaten things like bars again after that.

Much of the research and communication with individuals I've done makes it quite clear that even when cooked foodists (zero carb) or even raw vegans adopt a low sugar diet (including 0 fruit) that their health oft benefits. Now one can argue to some degree against the pitfalls and shortcommings there. It does not say that in the case of zero carb or low sugar vegans that the diet that they choose or works for them to restore health is in fact our natural diet..but I do think it conclusively shows that our natural diet cannot possibly be so highly composed of fruits. People would simply not do well on such approaches (even in periods of months nevermind years or decades) completely lacking something that is so much a part of what we need to thrive and if the requirements for fruit and carbohydrate were as high as some people would believe.

Yet while it is surprising to some that people can survive on all or mostly fruit in a sense this is not all that different than a Pritkin or MacDougal low fat diet but made up of simple instead of complex carbs. I personally would add there is so many obvious other detriments and pluses that factor in here. but suffice to say I think that even for a healthy person Its extremely unlike that are main staple is fruit and certainly that fruit is far less essential in health than other foods..and in particular raw animal based foods. I also think other foods that are somewhat crappy/less natural are also more conducive to health...and the examples for this are all around us...but thats another argument.

The crucial distinction with hygiene as opposed to 'natural eating' is that I do not believe that following such a thing (if it exists) necessarily creates health. sometimes it is not enough and it does not..and more often it likely is a great assumption on how natural the approach is to begin with. Also often enough people neglect various tools which might not be the seemingly more natural options...which on serious investigation really have an assumed presence and no real precedent in real humans.

I agree with you completely here, for example some idiots claim that "herp derp, you're using the internet, that isn't natural lololol"... but communication between animals and even tiny cells is natural.

But just because people make assumptions etc. about how natural something is does not make it a "crap concept" or make it not a useful word/concept. I think it's just about the most useful concept we have!!!
  
For example, I try and sit with my legs up high as much as I can, because this is the natural way of sitting. This is how indigenous populations, and un-Westernized countries such as in the middle-east/india sit, the way all primates and indeed all mammals that do sit sit. Your feet are on the same level with your ass. This almost completely prevents circulation problems, deep vein thrombosis, and in fact many people with these type of problems are medically advised to put their feet up at a higher level.  

Okay, I did not realize that was Jericho Sunfire. Breathanarianism is obvious nonsense that has nothing to do with fruitarianism and he is clearly a liar.

For a reliable and good example, look at this guy: 72 years old bodybuilder and look at what he eats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO0iKeQJpxQ

Note also that the life expectency for black people is significantly less than for white people, making his age all the more impressive.
  
I sincerely hope that the people here aren't foolish enough to consider the pictures and videos of very low carb RAFers constitute any actual evidence, they are openly 100% selective evidence. The only thing they are strong evidence for is that it's possible for a person to get like that on them, thinking they mean anything else would be crazy beyond belief.  

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2011, 10:42:34 am »
The man said so himself, he was naturally gifted with a good looking muscular physique.
If this black guy ate MEAT maybe he'd go STRAIGHT and be attracted to WOMEN.
It's just a hypothesis.  Doubt he will test it.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2011, 12:51:36 pm »
To Modern Primate--

You're about to get banned.  It has nothing to do with your posting style, you really seem like a nice person.  However, you either

1. really don't know enough about raw food diets to be preaching like you have been (versus me, Tyler Durden, Good Samaritan, and several others)

2. are a troll

and, since this site is about promoting, learning, and teaching unbiased dietary fact...you are going to either need to stop promoting fruitarianism, or get banned. I'd love to be more tolerant, generally speaking, but...you're nice without being particularly interesting and useful and informative, and we've had a lot of people promoting veganism here, and, like you, they weren't interesting.  You, at least, have been polite, but that's not enough. I'm sorry.

We're not here for you to practice on, whether you are practicing trolling, or practicing teaching about nutrition.  The first is unacceptable, and the second you don't have enough knowledge for yet.

Offline magnetic

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2011, 08:21:12 pm »
I don't know if he was raw, but 'Castle Grok' was a paleo LC/ZCer who went fruitarian as an experiment and decided he liked it better. http://castlegrok.com/

He wasn't raw, and in fact writes off raw as being dangerous and conferring no additional dietary benefits:
http://castlegrok.com/reader-questions-meat-exercise/

Offline magnetic

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2011, 08:33:08 pm »
Much of the research and communication with individuals I've done makes it quite clear that even when cooked foodists (zero carb) or even raw vegans adopt a low sugar diet (including 0 fruit) that their health oft benefits. Now one can argue to some degree against the pitfalls and shortcommings there. It does not say that in the case of zero carb or low sugar vegans that the diet that they choose or works for them to restore health is in fact our natural diet..

I didn't know there was such a thing as a low sugar vegan diet. It would have to be either calorie restricted or use tons of unnatural oils, like coconut oil or olive oil. Those are second-rate fats (even if they are better than corn and soybean oil). How is that at all comparable to a zero carb or low carb diet, raw or cooked?

Offline KD

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2011, 09:40:19 pm »
I don't know if he was raw, but 'Castle Grok' was a paleo LC/ZCer who went fruitarian as an experiment and decided he liked it better. http://castlegrok.com/

Well I did give 'virtually' as a caveat O0. I would say that on top of already mentioned that merely going to a raw fruit diet and seeing how one feels is not an acceptable yardstick for assessment - particularly coming from a cooked diet. In theory I do believe a cooked paleo/primal diet is superior, but there are many people on this site that would disagree based on their experience, particularly if they include some raw animal foods. In the high carb-paleo world, I tend to also give more creedence to people actually researching what and how individuals actually ate..rather than makes huge leaps and assumptions. Some are more satisfied with combining logic like that no animal cooks food so that anything that is suitable to be eaten can be done so without any problems despite how people actually were able to eat or thrived in eating. To me it just seems to rub obviously against what is actually working or not when looking at all kinds of dietary trends...that to me are often useful 'controls' like i mentioned.

In case you are interested, this guy actually was a heavy raw meat eater that now only eats raw meat occasionally and is geared more towards raw vegetarianism.

http://www.paullundkvist.com/36101.html

Not to be super critical..but I followed it a few years back and If one was to read the whole thing...it seems to stop making as much sense..be mired in personal dramas and then ends. I don't believe there really is any holy grail type solution in health that will apply to everyone, so while I think experimentation and not following any specific raw or LC or other dogma is good....I can only point to which things people with experience on both sides of things have found to actually have importance and which things are prone to more problems. Its by no means universal or can be seen clearly always.

Let me say then that I believe in the very high percentages (99%+) if you find someone on such a diet that one might assess as healthy..odds are they were already very athletic with athletic builds and really had minor problems coming into such a diet and certainly were not in their developing stages as humans when they started - which in addition to true healing and measurable physical changes - is really where one sees that gaps in terms of what is a natural diet....or which foods that are perhaps natural are working or not for modern people to regain health.

If we take someone that has managed to heal their body through various diets and methods...I do not believe a diet high in fruits is always going to be detrimental and I do believe people in nature at some point could very well have eaten what I might consider to be a large amount of fruit - at least seasonally. The main point I think is my observation and others that these diets are not suitable for healing and therefore also very suggestive that our natural diet is not one that is such a high percentage of fruits which by % at the very least discludes other foods which have actually proven to be completely health sustaining. On top of this lack it is also likely filled with excesses and ones particularly problematic for modern people consuming modern versions of such foods.


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2011, 07:22:06 am »
... Here is a website with a guy and with interviews from people who have been 100% fruitarian for years: http://mangodurian.blogspot.com/ Blood tests can be interpreted in many different ways, the indicators available in blood tests (such as triglycerides being suggestive of heart disease) are for people who are on SAD diets. On a fruitarian diet you don't need to get these blood tests, having said that I'm sure the blood profiles of people with diets very high in fruit are exceptionally good.
As usual, Padraig, you've been going on and on about the wonders of fruit, fruitarianism and the frugivorous nature of humans. The odd thing is, in the past you admitted that you're not a true fruitarian and eat foods that are generally forbidden on fruitarian and even broader vegan diets. Why do you promote a diet that you don't even follow yourself?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Do you have problems eating fruit? I did, but not any more...
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2011, 11:02:00 am »
As usual, Padraig, you've been going on and on about the wonders of fruit, fruitarianism and the frugivorous nature of humans. The odd thing is, in the past you admitted that you're not a true fruitarian and eat foods that are generally forbidden on fruitarian and even broader vegan diets. Why do you promote a diet that you don't even follow yourself?

I'll tell you why.  A vegan diet makes you flakey, indecisive, and fuzzy-headed, so, even if you know veganism is damaging your brain, and are trying to eat some animal products to fix that, you sometimes avoid animal products, because your brain is so messed up already.  You also do things like preach veganism.  Why? Because your brain is so messed up.

The sad/funny part is that it's the flakey types who are most likely to try veganism in the first place...and they're the ones who fall into the vicious cycle the easiest. The flakey types need lots of good-quality animal fats, and need to avoid simple sugars.  The worst situation is when they go low-fat fruitarian.  That's a really quick way to brain damage. 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 12:32:24 pm by TylerDurden »

 

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