Author Topic: CLO + butter oil, fermentation  (Read 5530 times)

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Offline SoulJourner

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CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« on: October 18, 2011, 02:10:45 pm »
I had my sister, 50-ish and pretty vegetable-oriented (anti-raw) with recent weight-loss, fatigue and anxiety, convinced to try the Green Pastures CLO + butter oil, and then she had some testing done by some provider that showed she is "sensitive" to dairy and brewer's yeast and egg whites. She now believes it's best to avoid fermented foods, condiments, and food products containing dairy, baker's yeast, and brewer's yeast, hence the Green Pastures CLO + butter oil is also out. She wants to try the Nordic Naturals CLO. Can anyone share any reasoning that would alleviate the concerns about dairy and fermentation, also whether Nordic Naturals would be acceptable alternative to Green Pastures? I did suggest that pasteurization is more likely the problem than the dairy per se, and am also going to mention that AV suggests unheated honey can also cure the enzyme deficiency that causes some to have problems even with raw dairy.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 03:07:51 pm »
Some people do have problems with raw dairy, though, regardless of honey usage. Even Aajonus recommends using raw meats for rebuilding  rather than raw dairy per se, though he views raw dairy as being useful in other ways.

PP suggested Kriaxanthin krill oil as the best, least-processed form of krill-oil(krill-oil has far more omega-3s than CLO). I only have heard of Green Pastures as being raw, though.
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Offline jessica

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 08:33:52 pm »
i couldnt do egg white for a while, ESPECIALLY store bought, no matter now "organic" free range, pasture fed etc...........they are all lies when it comes to non-local sources. organic birds are caged and fed grains, free range birds like by the 100,000's in barns so tight they cant make it over the other birds to get to the small pasture they are promised.  buy from your neighbor if you can, or get your own birds.  perhaps she can eat raw egg yolks, thats where the majority of the nutrients lie anyhow, whites are mostly protein.
she may be really sensitive to yeast and if she feels that way i think that should be honored, yeast is a nasty and tenacious critter!
clo is good for healing regimines and temporarily but after ones health has improved, which should be given time for, its best to just eat raw liver and if she is still wary of dairy to add clarified butter, the milk solidys can be seperated. 
i think elimination is a good temporary idea, and then progress in the direction of less supplements and more whole foods
i thought i couldnt eat dairy for the longest time, and had to repair my body a bit before i got this HUGE craving for yogurt, now i can eat a quart a day some days, others i feel a little mucusy and honor that and dont eat yogurt that day, same with eggs......
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 08:41:33 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 09:48:51 am »
Quote
I only have heard of Green Pastures as being raw, though.
I have what some may regard as bad news on that, which I reported in another thread. I happened across this video in which the Healthy Home Economist says starting at 2:12 regarding Green Pastures Blue Ice raw fermently cod liver oil: "It's completely unheated. It's purified by centrifuge" -- Cod Liver Oil 101
So I looked into it and found other confirming reports:

"Butter oil is more controlled in what the cows eat, (speed of grass growth) and it is made without heat as Weston Price Made back in the 1930's with the centrifuge to consolidate the nutrients." http://www.greenpasture.org/fermented-cod-liver-oil-butter-oil-vitamin-d-vitamin-a/i-get-a-common-question-raw-butter-ghee-butter-oil-coconut-ghee/

"Dr. Price always gave cod liver oil along with high-vitamin butter oil, extracted by centrifuge from good quality spring or fall butter." http://www.marysgarden.com/colostrum/fermented_cod_liver_oil.htm

Aajonus reports that honey that is centrifuged is mildly heated. If true, then I expect that the same is true for the Green Pastures cod liver oil and butter oil. It's disappointing, though I'm not worried about it and will continue to use Green Pastures products for now, but I'm sharing this because others may be very bothered by it and it's useful to know that different people mean different things by "unheated".

I don't know for sure that the Kriaxanthin krill oil isn't also heated in some way, it's just the only one that I haven't found any evidence for it being heated. Since the Blue Ice is apparently mildly heated, my guess is that the krill oil is too.

Like KD, I wonder whether even the "hand-packed" honeys are really completely unheated, especially since learning that there are heated electric uncapping knives. Even the honeycombs in which the bees make the comb right in the container might get heated a bit during shipping. The only way to be absolutely sure about rawness would be to harvest/gather your own honey or oil, which isn't practical for most people, of course.

Electric (heated) uncapping knife. It would be quite a temptation to use one of these when processing jarred honey, as it makes uncapping a lot quicker and easier than using an unheated knife, though at least it only touches the surface of the honeycomb.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 09:59:34 am by PaleoPhil »
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Offline KD

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 10:32:25 am »
I think the difference with honey is that bees themselves keep honey at temps below 34 C which is below what is acceptable as even 'raw' temps. Also that sugars or the other elements in honey are more volatile than animal fats.

I guess one can contact Blue Ice to see what temp the centrifuge gets. It does appear there are temperature regulated models in existence, but I can't find out too much about it.  The centrifuged honeys are in many cases labeled to be 'raw' so perhaps under that special temp, it just the idea of whether they are truly 'unheated' which supposedly makes the difference with honey. My thoughts would be that the heat contributed by a centrifuge is largely insignificant generally but in the cases of honeys it might make far more difference than with fats (or proteins). I mean if someone rigs up Lex-box construction with a light bulb to dry meat and the ambient temp gets slightly and temporarily above the 104 or 109 F temp regulated raw...how much additional vitality would that subtract than stuff dried specifically at 103 deg? Just a general question of course.

Steaming temp is 212 F , and its generally difficult to cook things too hardcore below that. 131 F being I guess the lowest for low-temp long term cooking? Also taking into account rendering temps for fats and how they remain pretty stable (although of course not 'raw')

I guess worth mentioning is many of these products are geared more to WAPF folks than raw paleo or Primal dieters and those  who might have stricter demands.


Offline jessica

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 10:43:38 am »
just find someone who supplies honey in the comb
if not then just live without it
that seems pretty paleo

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: CLO + butter oil : DOSAGE ?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 06:37:05 am »
My order of Blue Ice combined CLO and Butter Oil just arrived.

How much of this should a non raw paleo adult take?

How much of this should a non raw paleo child take?
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Offline Waldpfad

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 10:31:12 am »
In Nutrition and Physical Degeneration Weston A Price writes that small amounts like half a teaspoon of cod liver oil with an equal amount of half a teaspoon of high vitamin butter oil  taken with each meal ( 3 meals a day) is sufficient to stop dental caries/decay and to make rickets and broken bones heal.

Offline SoulJourner

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 06:10:41 am »
Goodsamaritan, just wondering how it goes with the Blue Ice?

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 09:12:43 am »
I currently take the Green Pastures raw FCLO and butter oil meself, GS, and I have no idea how much to take, so I go buy the suggested serving sizes listed on the bottles, roughly.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Snamisolnsew

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Re: CLO + butter oil, fermentation
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 07:00:41 pm »
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