Author Topic: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew  (Read 26329 times)

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Offline Muhammad.Sunshine

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Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« on: October 28, 2011, 08:11:12 pm »
There is a recent video interview featuring two popular leaders of the Paleo movement. For 15 minutes the interviewee extolled the benefits of the Paleo diet; you activate super genes, become ultra-strong and energetic etc.

While discussing fasting the Paleoman proudly stated that all he needed to get by until lunch was his dear cup of java. Although the interviewee is rather flexible in his approach, it was awkwardly hypocritical to give a 15 minute rhapsody of his Paleo diet only to candidly admit his self-imposed neurochemical dependence on mojo.

What are your views on coffee, tea, or caffeine?
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 08:33:33 pm »
In The Causes and Prevention of Cancer, Bruce N. Ames
(Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
Director of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences Center
University of California at Berkeley) states:
Quote
Cooking food also generates thousands of chemicals. There are over 1000 chemicals reported in a cup of coffee. Only 26 have been tested in animal cancer tests and more than half are rodent carcinogens; there are still a thousand chemicals left to test. The amount of potentially carcinogenic pesticide residues consumed in a year is less than the amount known of rodent carcinogens in a cup of coffee.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 09:03:04 pm »
Tea and coffee have appalling numbers of carcinogenic chemicals in them. Coffee is the worst. I myself tried coffee and tea and can testify that they both fouled up my glandular system, coffee in particular.
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Offline ys

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2011, 12:32:41 am »
i don't mind occasional coffee or tea.  i've heard some prefer coffee because tea has way too much tannins. 

Offline Muhammad.Sunshine

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2011, 02:09:06 am »
You are spot on concerning the carcinogens.

Burnt food leaves a blackened residue on cooking surfaces; when water is added, it becomes a dark liquid similar to coffee in appearance.

Is coffee simply the charred residue of burnt coffee beans. How can one subject their body to such acrid and appalling substances multiple times every day?

Coffee consumption is pervasive in society, and such a draconian neurological dependence upon coffee is what must be remedied. A person should enjoy a life free of substance-based tyranny.


« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 02:31:20 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 02:29:09 am »
I stopped drinking coffee back in 1964... and then I could fall asleep without sleeping pills ! I lost my habituation to it, so when I wanted to drive all night after a whole day on the road, I just had to make an exception and drink a small  single cup of coffee 8).

The very last cup I drank must have been around 1980 :).
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2011, 02:37:35 am »
I stopped drinking coffee back in 1964... and then I could fall asleep without sleeping pills ! I lost my habituation to it, so when I wanted to drive all night after a whole day on the road, I just had to make an exception and drink a small  single cup of coffee 8).

The very last cup I drank must have been around 1980 :).
Coffee must be something highly addictive to truck-drivers. I remember how, when I had appalling chronic fatigue, the only thing that restored me to a  vaguely normal, fake healthy-looking appearance was a cup of instant coffee. Unfortunately, this benefit only lasted c.30 minutes, so I spent most of the day on drinking cups of coffee, little realising that coffee was slowly ruining my glandular system all the time.
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Offline ys

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2011, 05:16:48 am »
also remember that back in time people had coffee in tiny maybe about 2-ounce cups.  today people gulp it in many 10-ounce cups.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2011, 06:33:54 am »
I occasionally will have a coffee. Small with half a shot. i feel high for about half an hour.

I can't believe how big some of those take away cups are!
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2011, 08:26:48 am »
I am currently reading "Uncommon Grounds The History of Coffee and How it Transformed our World". It's fascinating. So much slavery, repression of classes, murder and massive social unrest and outrageous intrigues tied up with those little beans!

Green tea and some black teas have cancer-fighting properties and can't be much compared to coffee in most ways. Herb teas are in another department entirely.

I often wondered if one could chew on the beans what they would taste like and what effect if any they would have. The mythical discovery of coffee was the story of a goat herder seeing his goats dance from eating the beans so he ate them too and then danced. I used to have lots of mock coffee plants at one home of mine, but you couldn't eat them. I often thought I'd ordered a coffee plant just to see the difference between the bean and what we make out of it. I think of doing this with cacao nuts one day too. I think I could grow both in a greenhouse. I'm just very curious.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2011, 08:34:28 am »
You can eat them. I've had ones which were sugared/flavoured and tasted like coffee and were really nice.

You will be high as a kite though.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2011, 09:07:11 am »
Coffee "beans" are fruit seeds that are coated by edible fruit. Fruit that is edible raw. Problem is, the fruit is only sold in the USA in the form of juices, AFAIK.
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Offline ys

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2011, 11:09:15 am »
Quote
Green tea and some black teas have cancer-fighting properties and can't be much compared to coffee in most ways.

that's only a hypothesis.  it hasn't been proven.  all those studies have a keyword 'may' which in reality means just a guess.

Offline Fermenter Zym

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 11:16:25 am »
What about herbal teas? I would think most traditional / tribal cultures would have brewed herbs as medicine.

Offline Inger

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2011, 02:00:06 pm »
I drink a lot of herbal teas (grown wild or organic) and it makes me feel great, or say, I do not recognize anything negative from them.
Coffee is another story. If I drink coffee, it has to be organic, very limited amount, and I have to sip it very very slowly otherwise I feel really bad somehow. So I think it is not really healthy.
I do manage to drink organic coffee with cardamom and coconutoil at times.. slowly sipping on it for hours... cause it just taste so delicious to me  :P and is a great aprodiziacum.. ;) BUT I can fairly sure tell, it is stressing the body, as herbal tea is not.
I seem to tolerate it well when I use it in minimal doses though. I would never tell anyone to drink coffee if they had not to begin with.
Coffee is clearly a drug to me.

Inger

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 05:44:31 pm »
I read that coffee has negative effect on gut flora so I personally try to avoid it at any cost.
because high quality probiotics are expensive  ;D
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 08:55:28 pm by achillezzz »

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 03:07:35 am »
that's only a hypothesis.  it hasn't been proven.  all those studies have a keyword 'may' which in reality means just a guess.

Well, there are proven substances that kill cancer cells in teas - but no studies per se on the teas in their whole form. Same thing with parts of many plants. You eat the plant to get the substance when ill. Whether or not eating or drinking any of these things generally or a lot is good is totally debatable. Often, when fighting a disease certain herbs can be very good but not at other times. Eating/drinking some of the food is often considered to be preventive. And of course, getting funding for any alternative treatment is very difficult. Often, one goes by the traditional uses which is in a way slow studies over millenia.

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 05:02:14 pm »
I read that coffee has negative effect on gut flora so I personally try to avoid it at any cost.
because high quality probiotics are expensive  ;D
High quality probiotics are dirt cheap. Just get some kefir grains and make your own high quality antibiotic. If you dont use dairy than use waterkefir, kombucha, fermented veggies, mead etc  Fermented food is always a better probiotic than anything sold in capsules(thus highly processed!)
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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 08:46:03 pm »
Giving up coffee did me a lot of good.
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Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2011, 09:40:50 pm »
Giving up coffee did me a lot of good.
What did improve specifically? I drink 1 cup a day. I gave that up for a while but didn't really noticed any difference so it sneaked back in again... I do notice hyperactivity and hyper emotionability when drinking several cups a day. So I try not to do that..
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 10:19:47 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline Max

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 11:27:08 pm »
I drink coffee about 3 times a week now.  I am cutting back.  I want to drink coffee zero times a week.  The strange thing is, the flavor of coffee objectively isn't that good.  It tastes burnt and unnatural.  But it is one of the last things I haven't been able to give up completely.  Probably because of the caffeine and the effect it has on the brain.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 11:41:55 pm »
Get the f**ck out! Coffee paleolithic. People like to justify things to themself. Milk is ok because they would have eaten from animals udders. Wholegrains, because you can hit grass and collect the grains in your hand. I think we all know the answer.

(Up at 1 am on coffee, not trying to say it's paleo)

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 12:00:37 am »
LOL Josh!  ;D

Up at 1 am for Jo, but not trying to say it's paleo - Ha!

That says it all doesn't it? It's not just the caffeine. You could drink just as much caffeine in teas and not be nearly as addicted. Coffee is highly addictive.

Coffee has it's uses. If you have to drive in the middle of the night against your will it will keep you from killing yourself or others. If you get poisoned it can stop or slow the affects. If you take a homeopathic remedy that wasn't right for you, coffee can delete it. If you are too shy to talk it will make you loquacious. If you want to start a revolution, it's value is great. If you want to make lots and lots of money as a legal drug dealer with a drug that is universally accepted and causes tremendous harm to the environment and socially you can wrap your greedy little fingers around java and ruin some rainforests, enslave nations and make yourself some cold, hard, karma-ridden cash.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 04:25:30 am »
What did improve specifically? I drink 1 cup a day. I gave that up for a while but didn't really noticed any difference so it sneaked back in again... I do notice hyperactivity and hyper emotionability when drinking several cups a day. So I try not to do that..
I’m flabbergasted by the number of people here who still drink coffee ! What is the point of talking about raw paleo diet while drinking coffee, which is neither raw nor paleo but on the contrary is well known as one of the most harmful foodstuff ?  :o

Do you think you will immediately notice a difference if you breath some asbestos fibers or commonly ingest a very small amount of dioxin ? Don’t be stupid, carcinogens taken at small but recurrent doses will only show an effect years or more likely decades latter. Didn’t you read the  posts linked below ?

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/coffee-a-splendid-paleolithic-brew/msg78629/#msg78629
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/response-delays/msg16926/#msg16926

Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Coffee: A Splendid Paleolithic Brew
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 04:33:16 am »
The trouble is that we mostly live in a modern world where it is awfully difficult to socialise with people unless one is willing to compromise a little. I know of certain people who I try to avoid like the plague partly because they only are willing to go out to eat at McDonald's and refuse to eat any high-quality cooked foods of any kind. With other more sensible people, I sometimes have to compromise, such as at dinners with various acquaintances - it's just considered really rude to ask the host to provide an alternative dish acceptable to me (and SAD-eaters) such as a raw salad. I take care to eat something raw before or after a dinner, usually, sometimes using "high-meat" to counter any ill-effects from the cooked foods. If I can, on those occasions, I will drink mineral water or tapwater, otherwise it's clear, transparent alcohol or tea.

All that said, I have personal experience of how coffee really helps damage one's adrenals. Sure, it makes one wide awake, but (herbal) tea is a better alternative, though not necessarily all that beneficial either.
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