Need a bunch of testimonials on high fruit/low fat

[cherimoya_kid]

I've been having a big argument over at the forums at rawfoodsupport.com.  DurianRider trolls like a motherfucker over there, half the members hate the shit out of him, but he has a few supporters.  Several members are eating 80/10/10 and claiming great results. 

One of the posters is asking me for testimonials about fruit-eating and 80/10/10.  Positive, negative, whatever.  Detailed is good, pictures are also good.

If you're like PaleoPhil and simply can't eat fruit, then give the symptoms that fruit causes.  (Yes, Phil, I know that fermented honey has allowed you to eat fruit again. )

So let's hear about your fruit-eating and what it has brought you.

[goodsamaritan]

I can pig out on durian.
In 2009 when my son was being treated of TB, he and I ate 50% durian and 50% raw beef.
We also ate a lot of fat from the beef.
I cannot claim success with low fat.
I get sugar highs and crashes with low fat.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Some pretty harsh discussions over there. I just read through the 80/10/10 topic on rawfoodsupport.com. Seems like its a no-win argument Cherimoya most posters there have already made up their mind. They just keep repeating veg mantra's.

I have a history of very strong emotion swings. I used to get very agressive very easily. When I ditched grains and went rpd this got a whole lot better. Last couple of months I upped my fat intake a lot and I'm very calm as a result. The more fat I eat the calmer/more relaxed I am. Last week I found a supply of raw butter (I used to eat marrow, suet and vco). As of this monday I've been experimenting with the primal diet and as a result my fat intake (especially butter) has increased once again. I've never felt so balanced calm and at the same time energetic!

Fat (especially butter) is a miracle for me. Wouldn't know what to do without it.

[achillezzz]

For me overconsumption of fruits leads to teeth sensitivity, and this constant feeling like I'm full of adrenalin..
Sometimes eating some fruit can help stimulating a bowel movement. Too much also makes me constipated if not balanced with higher fat meal later on that day.

There are some fruits that you can eat only little of it and feel satisfied like avocado?
And there also are fruits that no matter how much I eat of it I'm not satisfied I want more more pigout on 12 persimmons feel good for 5 minutes then feel like shit immdiately...

From what I know DurianRider doesn't eat his fruits whole he blends them and lives on shakes no??

[Wattlebird]

So let's hear about your fruit-eating and what it has brought you.

Hi CK,
Instinctively, fruit features strongly in my diet.
But I am also attracted to 'heavier' tastes and eat a good amount of nuts also. (And fish, shellfish, (tongue and other organmeat on occasion), etc)
For me, a diet of just fruit would just be part way satisfying.
Instinctively, a balance of contrasting foods strikes just the right blend.
For what its worth,
Kind wishes, J

[svrn]

Its funny how you mention the vegan mantras as I am currently engaged in several youtube arguments with vegans now. Whenever I clearly defeated their arguments they just revert to their brainwashed zombie vegan mantras and act like I didnt say anything. It is very reminiscent of my arguments with communists in which I clearly defeated them and their response is to simply start reciting some history they learned and act like they won the argument. The sad part is that they actually delude themselves into believing it. These kinds of people frustrate me to no end.

As far as fruit goes I've recently begun upping my fruit intake from around 10 percent to 15-30%. I did this because I don't notice any negative symptoms at all from fruit such as sugar rush or crashes. It is mostly just pineapple and papaya which I've been gorging on to improve my digestion and it has helped.

Maybe I'm not experiencing symptoms because I am very active and use up all the energy that the fruits provide me? Needless to say I consume lots and lots of raw fat (I've stopped eating fat and fruit at the same time as I don't find it necessary. except in shakes with eggs and butter  and honey.  Maybe all the fat I'm eating is keeping me from having symptoms also.

[TylerDurden]

Trying to convert people away from other diets doesn't really work. It just causes a backlash. Besides, why bother? Isn't it more fun to be one of the few around with any dietary sense? I will admit I get a bit of Schadenfreude when some old person insists that my diet is crap while they are obviously suffering from a number of otherwise solvable health-problems.

[PaleoPhil]

Don't waste your time on 811ers and militant fruit-heavy vegans. They are the most fanatical of all dieters that I've encountered. If you want to help someone, search for reasonable people like Dorothy, who was eating some eggs and raw fermented dairy (quark) when I encountered her posts, as I recall; and preferably people with sunny dispositions like hers (and Inger's and so on) too. I don't really want to attract overly negative grouches here, despite being a bit of a curmudgeon meself. LOL

Hmm, you're speaking my language now, Tyler. 

[van]

I agree you'll never win arguments.  But I think it's interesting that the mind when in a debate or argument has an agenda of "Now",  as I need to win or convince now.   So with that in mind, one Can plant seeds.  With 811, you can point things out to them that they may want to remember for themselves for the future to check back on.  Like; teeth sensitivity, weight or muscle loss, diminished concentration, diminished sexual function,  ability to stay warm in cold, ability to stay calm or deal with opposing beliefs, aging such as hair loss or wrinkles in their skin, and probably the most notable one is that of never being satisfied food wise for more than a few hours without gorging on sugars.  So I think it's enough to mention these ideas to 'them' and let it be.   We all have our own time frame to find our own truths.  I remember reading a web site where the author mentioned that raw vegans would rather die than change.  That shook me.  It wasn't but a week after that I dropped my WOE and started looking at the literature that included science for the first time.  I had altogether gone for many years on peoples' word,  like a Doug Graham.

[TylerDurden]

I think it's vital to rely on one's own experiences re diet, rather than trusting in others' accounts.

[svrn]

my goal in arguing on youtube is not to convince the person with whom I am arguing, who I am sure I will not convince, but to possibly catch a new vegan who isn't as set in their ways and make them think. Hopefully they will spot how bad the vegans arguments are (which in my opinion when I'm arguing with them becomes easily apparent) and realize that maybe they aren't doing the right thing.

[Joy2012]

Even though I have little interest in converting stubborn people away from their diets, I admire all you health evangelists who are motivated by genuine concern for the welfare of others. Do continue your good work, which may very well save our societies a huge amount of health care money.

[cherimoya_kid]

I have a history of very strong emotion swings. I used to get very agressive very easily. When I ditched grains and went rpd this got a whole lot better. Last couple of months I upped my fat intake a lot and I'm very calm as a result. The more fat I eat the calmer/more relaxed I am.

I have similar issues with anger/aggression.  Fat works very well for me.  Magnesium and calcium and mineral supplements in general work very well too.  Vitamin D also seems to really help.  Dark greens like spinach, and scallops are extremely helpful too. 

[cherimoya_kid]

Some pretty harsh discussions over there. I just read through the 80/10/10 topic on rawfoodsupport.com. Seems like its a no-win argument Cherimoya most posters there have already made up their mind. They just keep repeating veg mantra's.

Yeah, their minds are so full of the dogma that they can't absorb any new information.

Oh well.

[HIT_it_RAW]

I have similar issues with anger/aggression.  Fat works very well for me.  Magnesium and calcium and mineral supplements in general work very well too.  Vitamin D also seems to really help.  Dark greens like spinach, and scallops are extremely helpful too. 

yeah i noticed that about dark greens too. i drink green veggie juice daily and it keep me very well balanced especially with the large quantaties of butter. never noticed much improvment from vit D but i do recognise its importance. Either i dont take enough or i already have adequate levels from all the raw grass fed milk(plain and as kefir) i've been consuming last year. ought to have my blood levels checked one day.

i usually take a mineral sup ones a day with a green juice, some butter and my vit d. that way i have all the factors needed to utilize them together. I sometimes eat egg shell as well. oh and i make 1or2 bone broths a week. those really helped my teeth sensitivity clear away.

[letsdoiteczema]

Hey Cherimoya, I'm a recovered 80 10 10 low fat high carb raw vegan. I'm copying and pasting a part of my testimony from my website here. For the full thing, go on my site at www.naturescureforeczemaallergies.weebly.com

Summary of diets tried:

Diets by far have had the most profound effects on my body, even though alternative treatment methods may have some benefits, they're usually very expensive, time-consuming and not worth it. Also, the power and satisfaction in taking control of your own health is elating, knowing that you are not dependent on other people for your own well-being.
~September 2010 to December 2010. Tried the "Candida diet", similar to cooked organic whole foods diet with meat but excluding all sugars including fruit. Rashes didn't improve and I had sweet cravings all the time. I first got into this because allergies, eczema and a lot of autoimmune diseases were said to be caused by "candida overgrowth" in many online communities.
~December 2010 to January 2011. Tried the high-fat raw vegan diet, similar to what Dr. Robert Young (author of The pH Miracle) - rashes improved by 20% but was constantly tired. Sweet cravings continued, and I couldn't control my bulimia (binge and overeating followed by self-induced vomiting). This disorder would happen once or twice a week. I was so ashamed of it. I would binge some store bought vegetarian food, pizza, curry etc. and go to the toilet and vomit it out. At first, I felt like it was "smart" thing to do - having the pleasure of eating good tasting food but not allowing the "unhealthy" food to be absorbed by my body. Then I discovered chewing and spitting (link), and I thought I cured my bulimia. Turns out it is another eating disorder. I was utterly disgusted at the spat out food in the toilet but I couldn't control myself. I would seem to get into a trance-like state while I chew and spat, then felt absolutely horrible and guilty after. I learned that food gets rapidly absorbed by the area under the tongue and around the mouth even if you're not swallowing anything. Your body will also excrete excess stomach acid to prepare digesting the food that you have spat out. Excess stomach acid will cause stomach problems such as ulcers (Source).
~February 2011 to May 2011. Tried "The Gerson Therapy" - rashes improved by ~10% but not as well as I'd hoped (thought cancer would be an easier thing to cure than eczema! I was dead wrong...) The chew-spit disorder continued, this time including any meat leftovers from dinner at home. I started to get massive meat cravings. I have kept the coffee enema in my daily routine as it has proven to be the best liver detox method I've tried.
~May 2011 to November 2011. Nearly raw fruitarian diet with 80 10 10 (or 811rv, raw vegan diet promoted by Dr. Doug Graham), worked for couple months with significant improvement, then health went downhill pretty rapidly with a full body rash and a host of other symptoms after around 6 months. Meat cravings were more intense than ever and chew spitting continued. I wanted to stop my disorder desperately and would picture the cruel factory farming techniques of animals, the toxic antibiotics/hormones injected to factory meat, to try and morally stop my behavior - didn't work a single time. It was mentally exhausting. It just sounded like the perfect diet in the world - no cruelty, peace and love to all animals. I felt so righteous. Some symptoms I had when my health went downhill in the last 2 months of eating 80/10/10 included:

Fingernail fungal infections (never had them in my life) that spread to 2-3 fingernails on each hand.
Insomnia
Extreme fatigue during the day even after 12 hours of sleep (I thought it was detox)
Depression
Extremely cold hands and feet. Toenails and feet turned purple very easily.
Wake up in the middle of the night with chills and feeling ice cold
Deeply cracked fingertips that wouldn't heal
Resurgence of eczema rashes on whole body
Extreme meat cravings, resulting in binge eating, self-induced vomiting, then chew-spitting disorder when I "discovered" it.
Anxiety, panic attacks
Diarrhea or very loose, liquid stools (bowel movements)
Eyebrows started falling out and thinning (left eyebrow has a chunk missing)
Rapidly receding gums, leading to tooth sensitivities

Nearly all symptoms gradually disappeared within a month on uropathy and raw paleo diet. Eyebrows and receding gums will probably take a while to recover.

5. ~November 2011 to present. Finally stumbled on uropathy and raw paleo diet and experienced 90-95% cure in a month. Absolutely phenomenal. After a few days of transitioning, all cravings disappeared and I finally freed myself from being a slave of food.

[jessica]

i would die of sugar loving thangs infesting my body....i get all kinda of nice rashes and zits and zoids and itches and smells, low energy, basically feel like a diabetic alcoholic, i think my iq drops considerably.....

[cherimoya_kid]

I think that whatever obessions or fixations you have, the sugar intensifies that.  Generally, 8/1/1 increases fear/dread/anxiety, and I think it increases avoidance of whatever you fear.  In my case, I feared other people, and so I started feeling more and more fear/anxiety in their presence.

[letsdoiteczema]

I think that whatever obessions or fixations you have, the sugar intensifies that.  Generally, 8/1/1 increases fear/dread/anxiety, and I think it increases avoidance of whatever you fear.  In my case, I feared other people, and so I started feeling more and more fear/anxiety in their presence.

I have the exact same experience... I was so full of anxiety and fear every single day it was mentally exhausting. I would be scared to see people I know....I thought I was going insane...

[cherimoya_kid]

I would be scared to see people I know....

Yeah, this really confused some people that I knew, when I would avoid them. 

[goodsamaritan]

I did my raw fruitarian thing for 2 months and I did not have mental issues.
I was just thin and cold.

[cherimoya_kid]

I did my raw fruitarian thing for 2 months and I did not have mental issues.
I was just thin and cold.

it takes longer than two months to develop the mental problems.

[Joy2012]

What exactly is the root cause of the problems associated with high fruit intake? Is it blood sugar imbalance?

What about those kinds of fruit that supposedly improve blood sugar balance?

"Benefits (of apples) for Blood Sugar Regulation

This area of research on apple benefits is relatively new, but it's already awakening the interest of an increasing number of food scientists. At many different levels, the polyphenols in apples are clearly capable of influencing our digestion and absorption of carbohydrates, and the overall impact of these changes is to improve regulation of our blood sugar. The impact of apple polyphenols on our carbohydrate processing includes:

Slowing down of carbohydrate digestion. Quercetin and other flavonoids found in apples act to inhibit carbohydrate-digesting enzymes like alpha-amylase and alpha-glucosidase. When these enzymes are inhibited, carbohydrates are broken down less readily into simple sugars, and less load is placed on our bloodstream to accommodate more sugar.
Reduction of glucose absorption. Polyphenols in apples clearly lower the rate of glucose absorption from our digestive tract. Once again, this change lessens the sugar load on our bloodstream.
Stimulation of the pancreas to put out more insulin. Getting sugar out of our bloodstream often requires the help of insulin, a hormone produced by the beta cells of our pancreas. By telling the beta cells of our pancreas to produce more insulin, the polyphenols found in apple can help us clear more sugar from our blood and keep our blood sugar level in better balance.
Stimulation of insulin receptors to latch on to more insulin and increase the flow of sugar out of our bloodstream and into our cells. In order for sugar to leave our bloodstream and enter our cells (especially our muscle cells), insulin receptors on those cells must bind together with the insulin hormone and create cell changes that will allow sugar to pass through the cell membrane and into the cell. (Muscle cells, for example, continuously need this uptake of sugar from the bloodstream in order to function.) Polyphenols in apples help to activate the muscle cell insulin receptors, and in this way, they help facilitate passage of sugar from our bloodstream up into our cells. Once again, the result is better blood sugar regulation in our body. "
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=15


"In terms of blood sugar regulation, not all fruits are created equal. Watermelon, for example, has a relatively high glycemic index (GI) value in the range of 70-75, and is not considered to be a food that can be freely eaten by persons having difficulty with blood sugar balance. Grapes, on the other hand, have long been classified as a low glycemic index (GI) food, with GI values ranging between 43-53. In the case of grapes, recent studies have also shown that the low GI value of grapes is a good indicator of this fruit's blood sugar benefits. Studies have now connected grape intake to better blood sugar balance, better insulin regulation, and increased insulin sensitivity. We suspect that the strong phytonutrient content of grapes plays a key role in providing these blood sugar-related benefits. "
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=40

[goodsamaritan]

it takes longer than two months to develop the mental problems.

I was probably still sane enough to say that fruitarian wasn't working for me and I had to add meat.

[LePatron7]

I don't buy into the glycemic index theory.

The fruits and veggies that tested low on the GI might just be high in fructose. Since it doesn't test for fructose absorption it might not be accurate.

The best theory I heard is from Elaine Gotschall. She says that foods that are low glycemic, might just be foods that are poorly broken down. Leaving the carbs to go to the colon and cause bacterial overgrowth.

Something I noticed when I tried a low glycemic diet (of grains and dairy, etc.) I felt awful. I think it was because of bacterial overgrowth. When I started the specific carbohydrate diet (dairy and bean free), I felt a lot better.