Author Topic: Frustration with my heart.  (Read 7042 times)

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Offline Aria320

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Frustration with my heart.
« on: February 28, 2012, 06:18:09 am »
So, i've mentioned in the past that i was diagnosed with a heart murmur before i started eating a high fat diet with grass fed meat and raw dairy. To make the story short, i paid the doctor a visit this morning and apparently my murmur has gotten way worse, and the obstruction is considerable. I may even have to get surgery to remove a part of the muscle. Of course, i was incredibly saddened by the news, but at the same time, ready to punch a brick wall. I called my mom to tell her and her response? "Maybe you shouldn't eat so much fat!".... like just what i needed to hear right. And here i was trying to persuade her and teach her that conventional medicine is all wrong and that saturated fats should not be feared. But who is to believe the guy who has heart problems? I'm only 20 years old and frankly, this sucks. I don't know what to do. Even though, i'm not fat, i think according to the bmi, i am overweight by like 10 pounds. I'm thinking the fact that i'm overweight and stocky might have something to do with this. If i lose some extra pounds, maybe i'll prevent this murmur from getting any worse. Thoughts and advice please?

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 07:21:18 am »
Firstly, I always get a second opinion before undergoing any relatively serious non-emergency procedure.

Low-carb, high-fat diets are known to induce heart "fluttering" and such in some people. You might want to consider trying adding back some raw Paleo carbs, though I don't know how you'll know if it has succeeded or not short of waiting until you see a physician again or buying a stethoscope (they're relatively cheap) and learning how to use it.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 07:34:41 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline raw-al

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 07:33:11 am »
Are you on a totally raw diet?

The Raw Cop.... (Just kidding)
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 07:35:49 am »
I would also be suspicious of the raw dairy, BTW. Some folks don't fare well on it, such as Tyler.

I tolerate dairy better than Tyler, but even I tolerate milk less well than cheese and butter and cow's-milk dairy foods much less well than sheep's-milk dairy foods like raw sheep's milk cheese.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Aria320

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 07:42:53 am »
I seem to fare well on raw dairy. One thing is i only consume about 2 quarts of kefir a week and i wouldn't see how dairy could effect your heart? at least i've never heard of such a thing.

Also, i am not low carb. I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. I enjoy persimmons, clementines, bananas and even melon. I also consume raw vegetables, even though many would argue against that, i don't see the harm. I consume sweet potatoes (cooked btw) So i am not 100% raw. Sometimes i even sear my grass fed meats a little bit, but the inside is still completely raw. (please don't tell me the reason my murmur got worse was because i heated my meat for a couple minutes)

Could it be possible the high fat diet just isn't for me and i'd be better off on something like the WAI diet?

Offline raw-al

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 07:56:31 am »
I seem to fare well on raw dairy. One thing is i only consume about 2 quarts of kefir a week and i wouldn't see how dairy could effect your heart? at least i've never heard of such a thing.

Also, i am not low carb. I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. I enjoy persimmons, clementines, bananas and even melon. I also consume raw vegetables, even though many would argue against that, i don't see the harm. I consume sweet potatoes (cooked btw) So i am not 100% raw. Sometimes i even sear my grass fed meats a little bit, but the inside is still completely raw. (please don't tell me the reason my murmur got worse was because i heated my meat for a couple minutes)

Could it be possible the high fat diet just isn't for me and i'd be better off on something like the WAI diet?
Personally I love raw dairy. However I realize that it has a potential for causing issues.

I would be inclined to try easing up or not eating the kefir for 1 month and seeing what happens.

Now having said that kefir and yogurt are pre-digested dairy which technically should make it easier to digest but according to Ayurveda, yogourt tends to clump up somewhat possibly making it hard to digest for some people.

So the suggestion is to make it into Lassi which is in one of two versions

1. sweet - mix yogurt or kefir 1 part to water 2 to 4 parts, then add some rose water (Get at an Indian store) cardamom

2.digestive - same as above, except no rose water or cardamom, but add cumin seed.

Whichever you make blend for 30 seconds to break up the clumps.

Alternatively just add water and blend for 30 seconds.
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 08:04:41 am »
I seem to fare well on raw dairy. One thing is i only consume about 2 quarts of kefir a week and i wouldn't see how dairy could effect your heart? at least i've never heard of such a thing.
Please recall that you're the one who's reporting poor results, it was just a thought in light of those results. I'm not trying to suggest that dairy is definitely at the root, I just know that some people report poor results from dairy products, some of which negatively effect me, though they don't give me heart murmurs. You know your body best, so what do you think is causing the worsening of symptoms?

Quote
Also, i am not low carb. I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. I enjoy persimmons, clementines, bananas and even melon.
So you're apparently not really that high-fat after all. What % of your calories is fat, do you estimate?

Quote
I consume sweet potatoes (cooked btw)
That's one thing that affects me negatively--cooked tubers. YMMV.

Quote
So i am not 100% raw. Sometimes i even sear my grass fed meats a little bit,
FWIW, I find I fare better the more raw I eat my meats, especially the fats and fatty meats. I didn't find this out until I tried it. YMMV

Quote
but the inside is still completely raw. (please don't tell me the reason my murmur got worse was because i heated my meat for a couple minutes)
I doubt it, but I can't know for sure, because I'm not you.

Quote
Could it be possible the high fat diet just isn't for me and i'd be better off on something like the WAI diet?
First let's clarify how high-fat you really are, and no, I'm not particularly impressed with the WAI diet, so you won't get advocacy of something like that from me.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Aria320

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 08:25:55 am »
When i listed those fruits i enjoyed, i didn't mean "in a day". I'll have 1 or 2 persimmons a day max. Same with bananas and melon. Lower calorie fruits like clementines, ill have maybe 4 or 5. To give you a better perspective as to what my diet (as a 150 pound 20 year old male) It is around 1800 calories a day. Today i consumed about 80-90 grams of fat, around 60-70 grams of carbs and i don't know how much protein, but it is probably pretty high (around 150-180) Of course, other days vary. Some days, fat content might be 70-80, while carbs are higher.

Offline Aria320

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 08:27:21 am »
i guess i consider it high fat compared to conventional healthy diets. idk.. All i know is that i consume a lot of fat, it isn't ALL that i consume, but i still consume it.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 08:55:19 am »
It is around 1800 calories a day. Today i consumed about 80-90 grams of fat, around 60-70 grams of carbs and i don't know how much protein, but it is probably pretty high (around 150-180) Of course, other days vary. Some days, fat content might be 70-80, while carbs are higher.
Based on the numbers you provided, it's not what I would consider a high fat diet. I'm guessing that your numbers are off, unless my calculations are off. If I take the avg of your fat and carb ranges and allocate the remainder of the 1800 calories to protein, the following is what I get:

  Fat = 8.7 calories per gram
  Carbohydrates = 3.8 calories per gram
  Protein contain 3.2 calories per gram
(source:  http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/2220)

 85g fat x 8.7 =  739.5 calories = 41% of calories
 65g carbs x 3.8 =  247 calories = 14%
 254.2g protein x 3.2 = 813.5 calories = 45%
Sum = 1800 calories

I doubt that you eat 45% of your calories as protein, so are these estimates correct, or can you provide us with better numers? It might be easier to speak in terms of percentages rather than grams. Thanks.

How tall are you? If you're the avg height for a 20-year-old American (5 ft 10 in), then your daily calorie intake to maintain weight would be 2335, according to http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 09:10:05 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Aria320

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 09:03:38 am »
Here's what i ate today with accurate calorie/fat/protein content

Chicken drumsticks seasoned with himalayan sea salt and organic herbs - 1080 cals/60 grams of fat/120 grams of protein/0 carbs

herbal tea with tbs of coconut oil, 2 scoops of undenatured grass fed whey protein, psyllum husk seeds - 430 calories/50 grams of protein/ 20 grams of fat / 25 grams of carbs

2 bananas - 200 cals/40 grams of carbs/0 g of fat or protein

1 cup of home brewed kombucha - 80-100 cals/20 grams of carbs/0 g of fat or protein

hope that helps.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 09:56:50 am »
Why don't you add it up yourself and learn to track your own data so you can continue to do so going forward (give a man a fish...)? Here's the macronutrient figures I used (or if you have more accurate ones, you can use those):

  Fat = 8.7 calories per gram
  Carbohydrates = 3.8 calories per gram
  Protein contain 3.2 calories per gram
(source:  http://fatnews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/2220)

Your calorie levels still seem low compared to mine, and I'm a skeleton,  ;D though I'm close to 6 ft tall and physically active.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline jessica

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 12:30:15 pm »
get some herbal teas for your heart?........hawthorne comes to mind, there are a ton more.....eat garlic, say fuck you to fruits, bananas, etc and eat more greens,   i think kombucha is kind of toxic unless brewed properly or used medicinally, why not eat some animal heart,how do you get fats? chicken hearts are amazing?

Offline jessica

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 12:32:54 pm »
also i second on getting a second and third opinion......do you feel your heart is compromised?  i have had a heart murmur since as long as they have been listening to my heart.  are you nervous when they are listening to the beating? even nerves at the doctors office can have an effect on heart rates/pressures etcetc........just sayin

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 02:20:57 pm »
I was going to mention eating raw heart but Jessica beat me to it. It will give your heart the raw materials to 'remember' what it's like to be healthy. If the heart itself is the issue. Maybe eat raw brain too in case it is some signal getting jived on the way to the heart. I don't know what is at the root of a heart murmur. Whatever that is, eat it's raw corollary from animals on their wild diets and kick this problem's ass! Also fuck doctors, they're arrogant, ignorant assholes who couldn't see the truth if it was fired at them point blank from a canon.

Also I fucked up my heart pretty bad high dosing with pharms, especially DXM via Coricidin and OTC cough suppressant. That was 17, so many years later at 25 I don't have heart problems any more. Also grassfed beef heart is a staple of mine, because it's easily available, rare to see my fridge without it.

Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2012, 05:19:05 pm »
I would totally ignore BMI as it is ridiculus. bf% says way more. 150pounds(68kg) is pretty light so unless your are shorter than 1,75m and have very little muscle. I myself am 1,78m and weigh 99kg thats a BMI of 31. So according to the ignorant fools that designed the bmi index i'm not just fat I'm obese. However my bf is 12%. Is that obese? Off course not its in fact rather lean. I happen to have 30lbs more muscle than avarage.

So forget BMI and eat at least 2200kcal a day. The body cannot repair itself on a calorie deficit diet. Get healthy first and lean later!
“A man should be able to build a house, butcher a hog, tan the hide,
preserve the meat, deliver a baby, nurture the sick and reassure the dying, fight a war … specialization is for insects.”

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 02:16:08 am »
..But who is to believe the guy who has heart problems?
..
Thoughts and advice please?

I got serious heart problems from beef and lamb fat several times in the last years, including sharp pain in my chest. That's one reason why I don't eat beef and lamb fat any more. A diet of lean wild meats, fish, seafood, fowl, raw coconut fat (cream), fruits and vegetables is much better for my body and soul..

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frustration with my heart.
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 11:21:16 pm »
Did you run the numbers or come up with any ideas, Aria? Based on your last menu, your macronutrient ratios don't seem outlandish. I probably eat somewhat more fat than you, based on that. Your goal is to lose 10 lbs, which perhaps you think will make the doc and your mother happy, right? One thing I've seen numerous people report is that liquid calories with flavor and sugar content (such as soda pop, fruit juices, sweet tea, etc.) tend to add weight, especially when combined with fatty foods. So maybe the kombucha is something to look at? Maybe replacing it with water or unsweetened tea might help you lose that small amount of weight? Another option is the Shangri-la approach, which you can read about at Seth Roberts' blog. Of course, you'd want to discuss things with your doc, because it sounds like your heart problem is serious.

What type of heart murmur is it and what is the surgery called?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

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