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Offline walidn14

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Need help with the paleo diet
« on: August 22, 2013, 12:07:28 am »
Hello

It is my first post here. Have been on the paleo diet for some time now. Almost a year and a half. I really should of joined a forum sooner because I had a lot of questions. I will list them and if anyone can give advice on it then that would be great.

1. I feel great with the paleo diet, but better than how i felt on my standar diet. The problem is that a lot of diets have cheat days and on certain days i want to eat something other than paleo. Now a weird problem arises when i indulge in regular foods (like cake or chips or a sandwich). After consuming them I feel like absolute shit. Like my head starts hurting and i get headaches. My hands and knees get inflammation and I just feel plain sick and very unfocused. I feel very fatigued as well. I also get breakouts and a lot of acne when I eat bread and other grains. When i used to have coke or energy drinks on my cheat day then the little vein under one of my eyes was twitching lol.  I am just wondering is this a common experience for everyone? or can they just switch over with nothing changing?

2. How do I stay full on this diet. I am having a hard time grasping this. I feel constantly hungry all the time even after eating. I even tried this one recipe that contains coconut milk and casein protein powder and I still felt hungry after a while. This is the type of thing that really makes me go crazy cuz there is not enough paleo foods to eat and then you have to keep yourself full as well. Any help on this would be great

3. What are some quick and easy paleo meals? Also it would be great if they were inexpensive as well.

4. How do you make eating vegetables a better experience? I am just so unmotivated to eat plain salad. I dont even want to think about it lol.

5. This might be the wrong place to ask this but is chewing your food really going to help you stay full longer? I dont see the deal with that.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 02:23:04 am by TylerDurden »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 02:25:49 am »
Most of us  don't bother with chewing much, we just bolt the meat down like a dog.

I should mention that this is a RAW, palaeolithic diet. A cooked, palaeolithic diet can be useful but is nowhere near as effective or healthy as a raw, palaeolithic diet.

We do indeed experience nasty detox symptoms often if we go back to eating cooked or non-palaeo foods. It's just the body's way of getting rid of the toxins from such nasty foods.

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Offline eveheart

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 03:46:00 am »
1. ...Now a weird problem arises when i indulge in regular foods (like cake or chips or a sandwich). After consuming them I feel like absolute shit. Like my head starts hurting and i get headaches. My hands and knees get inflammation and I just feel plain sick and very unfocused. I feel very fatigued as well. I also get breakouts and a lot of acne when I eat bread and other grains. When i used to have coke or energy drinks on my cheat day then the little vein under one of my eyes was twitching lol.  I am just wondering is this a common experience for everyone? or can they just switch over with nothing changing?

I don't cheat on poison, which means that if a food makes me sick, I consider it a poison and I don't eat it. It helps me to label it as a poison, so I don't deceive myself that it is a treat.

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2. How do I stay full on this diet. I am having a hard time grasping this. I feel constantly hungry all the time even after eating. I even tried this one recipe that contains coconut milk and casein protein powder and I still felt hungry after a while. This is the type of thing that really makes me go crazy cuz there is not enough paleo foods to eat and then you have to keep yourself full as well. Any help on this would be great

I don't use recipes, I just eat foods that would have been available to our paleolithic ancestors. In my case, I limit carbohydrates because of insulin resistance. If you have insulin resistance, you will feel hungry after eating carbs because they do not get converted to usable energy. Perhaps you can share more about your health for more specific guidance, or experiment with some of the ideas you read on this forum.

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3. What are some quick and easy paleo meals? Also it would be great if they were inexpensive as well.

I just eat meat, fat, marrow, fish, berries, etc., as I imagine I would if I were a cavewoman.

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4. How do you make eating vegetables a better experience? I am just so unmotivated to eat plain salad. I dont even want to think about it lol.

Fermented vegetables are delicious. You can eat various leaves, or chew and spit (like juicing with your own teeth). As you get used to the flavors of real food, you begin a more subtle enjoyment of each flavor. If something doesn't taste appealing, do not eat it.

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5. This might be the wrong place to ask this but is chewing your food really going to help you stay full longer? I dont see the deal with that.

I like chewing my food. When I'm not in polite company, I gnaw my meat off a big hunk.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline bookittyrun

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 10:24:21 am »
Hello

It is my first post here. Have been on the paleo diet for some time now. Almost a year and a half. I really should of joined a forum sooner because I had a lot of questions. I will list them and if anyone can give advice on it then that would be great.

1. I feel great with the paleo diet, but better than how i felt on my standar diet. The problem is that a lot of diets have cheat days and on certain days i want to eat something other than paleo. Now a weird problem arises when i indulge in regular foods (like cake or chips or a sandwich). After consuming them I feel like absolute shit. Like my head starts hurting and i get headaches. My hands and knees get inflammation and I just feel plain sick and very unfocused. I feel very fatigued as well. I also get breakouts and a lot of acne when I eat bread and other grains. When i used to have coke or energy drinks on my cheat day then the little vein under one of my eyes was twitching lol.  I am just wondering is this a common experience for everyone? or can they just switch over with nothing changing?

ya, stop cheating.  if drinking bleach makes you feel like shit, don't drink it.  there are so many other foods and tidbits to enjoy, there's no need to cheat.  find paleo items that can be considered more of a "treat", instead of convincing yourself to "cheat"...

2. How do I stay full on this diet. I am having a hard time grasping this. I feel constantly hungry all the time even after eating. I even tried this one recipe that contains coconut milk and casein protein powder and I still felt hungry after a while. This is the type of thing that really makes me go crazy cuz there is not enough paleo foods to eat and then you have to keep yourself full as well. Any help on this would be great

many folks, including c_k, have suggested eating fats to help with this.  snack more often during the day, nuts and seeds may be a good alternative to fruits and veggies when looking to snack.

3. What are some quick and easy paleo meals? Also it would be great if they were inexpensive as well.

check out the recipe forum, sometimes good stuff gets posted there.  i occasionally post, and intend to continue as recipes become perfected.  it was (and is) my intention to mimic raw paleo dishes after the cooked, non paleo foods i used to enjoy.  btw...  i spend less money of foods now, than i did on a cooked diet.

4. How do you make eating vegetables a better experience? I am just so unmotivated to eat plain salad. I dont even want to think about it lol.

variety...  your taste for things will develop as time goes on, but the more you cheat, the less likely you are to become accustomed to foods.  last year, i never thought i would eat bananas, or avocados.  c_k convinced me to do both, and now i'm thankful.  they are quite delicious, and versatile.

5. This might be the wrong place to ask this but is chewing your food really going to help you stay full longer? I dont see the deal with that.

i choose to chew my foods thoroughly, whatever is on my plate...  i personally think it's beneficial, but my opinion is rarely regarded as "substantiated".  i was always told, "digestion starts in the mouth".  others will mention that the act of chewing kickstarts your gut into digestion mode, instead of being startled with a hunk of raw, unchewed food.  i feel the better your foods are digested and utilized, the less your body will look for more.  my foods and meats are usually prepared and served in bite size pieces, and eaten with chopsticks...  not to suggest i'm more "refined" and cultured than others, that's just how i enjoy eating.  do what seems right to you.
"it'll be just like a sleepover, only we'll be sweaty and covered with grease!"  spongebob squarepants

Offline Dr. D

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 02:04:08 pm »
 Welcome! As one of the younger healthier people on this forum (IMO, sorry guys I still love and appreciate you all) I thinks cheats need to be planned only. Prepare with high meat and other fermented foods, only cheat on a nearly full stomach, and sometimes alcohol can help digest that tough stuff.

The other thing about cheating that I decided: is the negative worth the short term joy? For me, bread or grains are not worth the sickness later. However once a week grandma's raspberry jam is fine and delicious. Very few adverse affects.

I still chew often. Don't think about it. Do what's natural. I notice it shortening but try not to bother with it. As everyone here says: what's works for you is probably right.

Wanna be full? Skip your next meal.

Wanna always be satisfied? Go zero Carb.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 04:19:59 pm »
Welcome to Walidn14!
As everyone here says: what's works for you is probably right.
Everyone ? Not me.

It’s not so simple : «Natural and human systems possess high dynamic complexity. (…) Effect is rarely proportional to cause. (…) Cause and effect are distant in space and time in complex systems while at the same time, there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained (…) the root-cause of the existence of the problem is not addressed (e.g. lack of upfront knowledge and resources, lack of understanding of system interactions and emergent systems properties). The complexity of systems overwhelms the ability to understand them. In many cases seemingly obvious solutions to problems fail or actually worsen a situation. (…) Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response.”
Ronald J. Ziegler, Complexity Reduction in Automotive Design and Development, University of Michigan, 2005, p. 34-36

Quote
Wanna always be satisfied? Go zero Carb.
Do you think our ancestors in the Paleolithic era knew what carbohydrates are? How could they avoid them in view to be satisfied if they didn’t know what it is? 

Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline walidn14

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 08:12:03 am »
Wow I am surprised at how helpful the community here is. I was thinking I would get a max of one reply lol.

TD: yes i was thinking this is not a regular paleo forum. So what exactly is a raw paleo diet? What can and cant you eat?

eveheart: what you said about poison makes sense. It is more clear to me to avoid bread/grains but I am trying to understand why I am sensitive to a food like grains/sweets while other people my age would be fine with it? I was wondering if a normal persons response going from paleo back to the SAD diet produces any pain/harmful symptoms.

As for more information about myself that I can do. I am 20. Up around 16 my health started to spiral downward for some reason. Sleep became a serious issue and I was not getting enough of it. All of these health problems started popping up like arthritis in my knee, inflammation in many parts of my body and headaches as well. I went on a primal blueprint/paleo diet when I was 19. I saw a lot of inflammation go away and sleep improved but energy actually decreased a lot. Like I really had no energy throughout the day. One reason was that I did not keep myself regularly hydrated and another was that I was simply not eating enough food. Now I am eating food and drinking water more regularly but the tired/low energy feeling is still there. That is basically a summary of me. I am pretty sure I don't have insulin resistance.

When you say fat and marrow what do you mean? It makes sense about what you said about not eating something that does not taste good.

bookitty: I eat different kinds of fats but still remain hungry. Like I feel like I can waste up to an hour just eating to make myself full.

Dr.d: how will skipping my next meal make me more full? wont it make me more hungrier?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:21:35 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline eveheart

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 09:15:51 am »
Fat and marrow - the best part of the animal - has long been favored over muscle meat as a food. I'm reading from the journals of Meriwether Lewis (explorer, circa 1803 - 1806), and he describes obtaining the fattiest foods from hunting, including beaver tails, bison humps and tongues, and marrow bones. Fatty fish, such as salmon and euchalon, are also mentioned as delicacies.

As far as "finding out what's wrong" based on a set of symptoms, I find that it is easier said than done because the medical explanations for the cause of disease refuse to acknowledge the massive stress of eating cooked foods day in and day out. My strategy has been to optimize my diet with high-quality raw foods. If you noticed a reduction of inflammation with cooked paleo, raw paleo should bring you even more relief. Your symptoms may improve quickly or gradually, but rest assured that when you stop cooking foods, you stop dosing yourself with foods that make you sicker. It makes good sense.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline bookittyrun

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 09:56:47 am »
maybe you'll find some suggestions here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/omnivorous-raw-paleo/very-hungry-about-1-hour-after-eating/

introduce yourself in the welcoming committee, talk a little about yourself, and your goals.  other members who may not peruse this particular "general discussion" board often, may take note of your situation, and offer help, guidance and suggestions.  there are a few diet styles accepted here for discussion, take some time to browse around, and investigate what makes the most sense to you...  there are some members who keep to the specific boards that apply to their diet choice, and may never have a chance to offer help because they have no idea you're here...  for example, i know mr rooker exists, but i've have had very limited exchanges with him, mainly because i have little personal interest in the zc board (or where ever he resides) so i don't go there...  there is a ton of wonderful information at hand, and plenty of willing members who can help get you where you need to be...  some members are smart - ass twerps (actually, it's just myself, i'm the only one     ;)    ), but others are very well versed in the rpd lifestyle.

i hope you find the help you need to eat clean, and live healthy!
"it'll be just like a sleepover, only we'll be sweaty and covered with grease!"  spongebob squarepants

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 11:15:19 am »
I like chewing my food. When I'm not in polite company, I gnaw my meat off a big hunk.
Yeah, and even dogs chew bones. I like the sensation I get from chewing sone of the softer, smaller bones too. I see why dogs enjoy it.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Dr. D

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 01:06:09 pm »
I am a 23 year old man also. I have nearly the same experience as you. I could barely stay awake for most of the day. I thought I had narcolepsy or something. I thought I was fine with bread and grains because my friends ate them and we all were in the same boat, tired, but you push through. They are just as sick. I feel blessed to have become more sensitive to the damage I do to my body.

Re: taking an hour to eat to feel full. I often am that way. I take the period from 4-8 pm every day to consume my days worth of food, to make sure im completely satisfied.

Re: skipping meals. The body does a few things here. Physically, you obviously crave food more dearly. Have you ever watched fight club? The part where Tyler holds a gun to that store clerks head and tells him he's going to kill him unless he continues becoming a biologist. "Tomorrow his breakfast will taste sweeter than anything he's ever eaten in his life" That's the psychological aspect. The food tastes better, but also, by comparison you reach your "stop" point sooner. Your stomach also slightly shrinks to compensate and as long as you don't gorge yourself future meals become easier to stop and carry on.

As eveheart said about fat, it satiates better than anything. Raw fat won't give you that bloated full feeling, but you also can have a set amount, and stop. If you're expecting to feel full like you do on carbs/grains, you'll keep searching. If you just think, am I not hungry enough to wait? That's the feeling I get from eating the right amount of fat.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 03:55:11 pm »
So what exactly is a raw paleo diet? What can and cant you eat?

We try to mimic the diet of our pre-fire ancestors. After all, it’s been a very short period since the first hominid regularly ate cooked food : 300’000 years are almost nothing on an evolutionary scale. We can eat everything except kinds of stuffs that weren’t available during the lower Paleolithic era, before the mastery of fire, before the advent of agriculture and domestication of animals.

It means avoiding : wheat, milk and dairy, anything processed, cooked or heated over 40°C. In that time, there were no dietitians nor any chemist / biochemist to tell people what to eat or what a stuff contains, what’s good and what’s bad for your health. So, just like all wild mammals, hominids were relying on their senses of smell and taste to know what and how much to eat, as well as training from parents and pairs.  8)

As you will find out by reading into this forum, I practice the instinctive nutrition (in short “instincto”). Our extended experience in Europe shows that it’s important to strictly avoid anything cooked, because there is no proportionality between cause and effect. A mostly raw diet (for example 90% raw) with a small proportion of cooked food could be almost as dangerous as a mostly cooked, standard diet.

A 100 axles train with only 1 axle derailed won’t be able to reach 99% of its top speed!  ;)

Your reactions to junkfood are explained by GCB’s tolerance theory. When regularly eating food containing certain toxins, the immune system finally enters on strike against it, allowing these toxins to slowly accumulate in the body where they may latter cause any kind of  disease such as cancer. So it’s better to get out of tolerance, as what seems to have happened to you for the most noxious stuff.

BTW, eating instinctively 100% raw, unmixed and unseasoned (as a temporary experiment, which can be extended at will)  is much easier than eating mostly raw with some cooked exceptions.  :)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:01:56 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Need help with the paleo diet
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 04:27:53 pm »
TD: yes i was thinking this is not a regular paleo forum. So what exactly is a raw paleo diet? What can and cant you eat?
  It consists mainly of raw 100% grassfed or wild meats, raw organ-meats, raw eggs, raw fruit, raw wildcaught fish/shellfish. Raw vegetables, raw nuts and raw mushrooms are also consumed, but more usually in smaller quantities due to antinutrients present in them.

Some people may also consume raw dairy, but this is not palaeo and a number of people do badly, healthwise, on raw dairy.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

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