Author Topic: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility  (Read 9413 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline Haai

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 04:36:34 pm »
Fried bacon has a ridiculously high AGE content of 91,577 kU per 100g! 100 g of raw pork chop, on the other hand, has an AGE content of only 1,188 kU.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 05:43:04 pm »
Fried bacon has a ridiculously high AGE content of 91,577 kU per 100g! 100 g of raw pork chop, on the other hand, has an AGE content of only 1,188 kU.
You are forgetting that such "raw" pork is grainfed so will have a high level of AGEs in it anyway due to grains in the pigs` diet  causing inflammation etc.. Grassfed/wild sources should have much lower levels than 1,000 kU.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 06:00:42 pm »
Grains alone would be a lesser evil than all kinds of awful cooked garbage and industrial feedstuffs pigs are usually fed, isn't it? These pigs' industrial farms are stinking almost one km away and are polluting streams, rivers and bays; they are a big environmental disaster in Brittany, particularly.     
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Haai

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 06:35:02 pm »
You are forgetting that such "raw" pork is grainfed so will have a high level of AGEs in it anyway due to grains in the pigs` diet  causing inflammation etc.. Grassfed/wild sources should have much lower levels than 1,000 kU.

Don't AGEs cause inflammation, rather than the other way around? Though of course, if the grains are heated then the pigs would consume more AGEs, resulting in meat with a higher AGE content.

Grains alone would be a lesser evil than all kinds of awful cooked garbage and industrial feedstuffs pigs are usually fed, isn't it?   

I would think so yes, but I wouldn't eat either.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 08:51:49 pm »
I absolutely would not eat grainfed pork, unless it was a very small part of the pig's diet, and the rest of its diet was raw and high-quality.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Grains are not all the same
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 09:40:32 pm »
Sure, I would not either, specially if the grain is wheat or has been hot dried - as is most often the case.  But grains are not all the same, wheat being the worst.  Limited amounts of organic, never hot dried and soaked millet, rice, oats, barley, sorghum or rye are tolerable. 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 10:23:49 pm »
Don't AGEs cause inflammation, rather than the other way around? Though of course, if the grains are heated then the pigs would consume more AGEs, resulting in meat with a higher AGE content.
  AGEs cause inflammation but inflammation also generates AGEs. Even if the grains are not heated, AGEs would still appear in high quantities, though not as much.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Dr. D

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 12:20:09 am »
I understand that others have had wild boar and other pig species like that but I personally couldn't imagine touching a farmed pig cooked or raw, even from a great pasture with an "organic " diet.

Pigs inherently scavenge, like crows, and I don't imagine that leading to quality nutrition. In the wild, scavenging isn't a problem, but with our influence towards polluting the wild, and how much we change food before eating and feeding it to our pets, it scares me. I know scavengers have a different method of absorbing and excreting their food so I can't see how the meat would be clean.

A while back they were making all sorts of studies on pork consumption and diseases like Alzheimer's and heart disease. Correlation is not causation but I think their goal was to gain ground on getting people away from eating meat.


My personal opinion: someone eating a farmed bacon heavy diet vs. a wheat gmo heavy diet, Bacon diet is healthier. Not good, just less bad.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

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Offline Haai

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 12:48:29 am »
I understand that others have had wild boar and other pig species like that but I personally couldn't imagine touching a farmed pig cooked or raw, even from a great pasture with an "organic " diet.

Pigs inherently scavenge, like crows, and I don't imagine that leading to quality nutrition. In the wild, scavenging isn't a problem, but with our influence towards polluting the wild, and how much we change food before eating and feeding it to our pets, it scares me. I know scavengers have a different method of absorbing and excreting their food so I can't see how the meat would be clean.

A while back they were making all sorts of studies on pork consumption and diseases like Alzheimer's and heart disease. Correlation is not causation but I think their goal was to gain ground on getting people away from eating meat.


My personal opinion: someone eating a farmed bacon heavy diet vs. a wheat gmo heavy diet, Bacon diet is healthier. Not good, just less bad.

I see no reason not to eat a pig that has been raised organically and on a "great pasture", as long as it has had no access to foods that are not a part of the natural diet of pigs/wild boars in the wild.

I know scavengers have a different method of absorbing and excreting their food so I can't see how the meat would be clean.

What is this different method of absorption and excretion that you speak of?
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline Iguana

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 01:10:50 am »
Pork is one of the most tasty meats, with plenty of fat, much more fat than in a wild boar.

There’s no problem at all with an alternating consumption of pork from pigs fed by ourselves, according to our specifications. In the winter 2011-2012, we shared with two instincto born friends a  huge chunk of a big pig raised by their  father on his land and fed acorns by himself. It was delicious, with so much soft and good fat.

Hundreds of instinctos have regularly eaten such pork meat during 45 years AFAIK without problems, except once. The guy had eaten alone the whole half of a pig in a short time. Moreover, I suspect that pig came from an unscrupulous stockbreeder who cheated and didn’t respect our specifications, feeding his animals with a lot of not even organic barley and oats . They guy developed shortly afterwards a tumor - which was somehow subsequently healed.   
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 01:17:04 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Dr. D

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 02:55:50 am »

What is this different method of absorption and excretion that you speak of?

I'm not fully aware of EVERYTHING involved, so I'm willing to learn and admit I'm wrong, but I have heard of pigs having a sort of vein in their hooves that when pressed excretes waste. This is concerning farmed pigs, not pastured, I don't know if there's a difference, but biology seems like biology.

I have also read other things, I can't remember the clear details, it's been about 4-5 years, but stuff about their meat changing color based on the diet, how they will eat anything they can find, poo included if there are any bits of leftover food. More anatomy things that I simply can't remember but I remember being very grossed out. Probably mostly from farmed pigs.

Pork is one of the most tasty meats, with plenty of fat, much more fat than in a wild boar.

There’s no problem at all with an alternating consumption of pork from pigs fed by ourselves, according to our specifications. In the winter 2011-2012, we shared with two instincto born friends a  huge chunk of a big pig raised by their  father on his land and fed acorns by himself. It was delicious, with so much soft and good fat.

Hundreds of instinctos have regularly eaten such pork meat during 45 years AFAIK without problems, except once. The guy had eaten alone the whole half of a pig in a short time. Moreover, I suspect that pig came from an unscrupulous stockbreeder who cheated and didn’t respect our specifications, feeding his animals with a lot of not even organic barley and oats . They guy developed shortly afterwards a tumor - which was somehow subsequently healed.   


Isn't pork also amazingly unbalanced in omega 3:6 ratio? Probably dependent on the diet.

Crazy how he got a tumor then it went away haha.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 03:51:36 am »
So what? Elephant meat tastes great being wild  but elephants also regularly eat shit to get the extra bacteria they need.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Dr. D

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 05:19:00 am »
So what? Elephant meat tastes great being wild  but elephants also regularly eat shit to get the extra bacteria they need.

I am not really questioning wild. I'm sure if I were offered wild boar I would eat it raw. I'm just not sure if those same boars/pigs could get what they need on pasture. But farming has drastically changed for the better on those that are trying their best to maintain as close to natural as possible so, it comes down to trusting the source doesn't it?
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 10:59:06 am »
I am not really questioning wild. I'm sure if I were offered wild boar I would eat it raw. I'm just not sure if those same boars/pigs could get what they need on pasture. But farming has drastically changed for the better on those that are trying their best to maintain as close to natural as possible so, it comes down to trusting the source doesn't it?

When it comes to pork and chicken, it has nothing to do with trust.  You verify personally, or have someone whose judgement you have GREAT faith in do the verifying for you.  That's it.

Offline svrn

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2013, 12:48:04 pm »
nothing wrong with eating scavengers.

anti pork hysteria is religious nonsense. Eating pork is wrong but sucking blood from babies chewed off foreskin is aright? Give me a break....

nothing wrong with naturally raised pork.

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2013, 09:03:03 pm »
nothing wrong with eating scavengers.

anti pork hysteria is religious nonsense. Eating pork is wrong but sucking blood from babies chewed off foreskin is aright? Give me a break....

nothing wrong with naturally raised pork.



I have to agree. The anti-pork agenda is all ultimately from a bunch of outdated religious laws.

I've heard that the reason pigs were forbidden in the Middle East was because they literally ate the human and animal feces in the roadways in cities. That's how city streets were kept clean of fecal matter, by pigs.

Offline paper_clips43

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2013, 10:15:53 pm »
Well Im convinced. After over a year of Raw Paleo I think its time I try some raw pork. Anyone familiar with Miller Organics Pork? Is it good quality?
Gnawing on bones.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2013, 12:33:06 am »
I wouldn't eat Miller's. I've gotten some questionable pork liver from them before.  Personally, I'd look for a local farmer whose farm you have visited.  That's the only way to be sure.

Offline svrn

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2013, 12:40:17 am »
also might be better not to eat pork in the winter as they are probably fed more grains. Theres much more stuff for the pigs to scavenge the rest of the year making supplementation less necessary.

also nothing wrong with eating the poop of healthy animals. all animals do it.

shellfish, the most nutrient dense food on the planet, eat plenty of fecal matter. Youd be doing yourself a great disservice to exclude them because of that.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2013, 01:37:25 am »
also nothing wrong with eating the poop of healthy animals. all animals do it.

shellfish, the most nutrient dense food on the planet, eat plenty of fecal matter. Youd be doing yourself a great disservice to exclude them because of that.

If most of an animal's diet is poop, then that's a problem.  That would be a very nutrient-poor diet. In addition, the poop that a pig in an ancient city would have eaten would have included a lot of human poop, from cooked-food-eating humans.  Again, in larger amounts, that can be a problem.

You're right about shellfish, but they live in a VERY nutrient-rich environment, and the plankton, etc. that they eat are also VERY mineral-rich. 

Offline svrn

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2013, 01:54:55 am »
is an animals diet ever mostly poop? Dont they just accasionally eat it basically as an enzyme supplement?

iv never heard of a land animal ever subsisting on poop to a large degree.

clearly there would be many reasons not to eat the pigs of the ancient city including the eating of unhealthy human poop.
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Offline jessica

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2013, 07:44:51 am »
go visit the farm when you are buying pork.  make sure they are out on pasture with access to tons of land and plenty of sunshine. they should be getting shrubs and roots, this time of year they should be feasting on fallen tree nuts like acorns and whatever is in season in terms of supplemental vegetables, fruit, melons.  I think soaked and sprouted oats, barley, seeds are fine for them as long as its supplemental feed and not a huge part of their diet, they will eat plenty of that stuff if its offered to em fresh, i.e milky oats, sunflower heads that are in seed, so its a pretty decent but not perfect substitute.  some of the pigs I raised had worms in their livers and I suspect they might have caught something from eating all the chicken shit because the chickens loved to eat the flies that buzzed around the pig poop and fruit/veggie piles. I was on someone else's farm so my piggies had to be contained but damn.......they were some healthy tasty beasts came from that farm. 

Offline van

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2013, 10:06:20 am »
Pigs can carry a very dangerous brain parasite cysts (something that cows and sheep don't get) .  I didn't look farther into it when I read it once, because I don't eat them.  But you might want to investigate. 

Offline van

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Re: 1 rasher of bacon a day significantly harms mens` fertility
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2013, 10:07:17 am »
sorry that should have read, the parasite can easily end up in our brains.

 

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