Author Topic: Fukushima and California  (Read 24018 times)

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Offline LePatron7

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Fukushima and California
« on: November 09, 2013, 03:58:24 pm »
Has anyone been following how Fukashima is affecting other parts of the world? I've been reading that California is getting a big part of the radiation.

I started getting fruit from other areas.

The first thing I noticed was my apples tasted awful. They were usually crispy and flavorful, but started being soft and less appealing.

What are your views on the Fukushima nuclear power plant's accident and food?

http://topinfopost.com/2013/10/10/fukushima-is-here-all-bluefin-tuna-caught-in-california-are-radioactive

"Every bluefin tuna tested in the waters off California has shown to be contaminated with radiation that originated in Fukushima. Every single one."
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:10:31 pm by Iguana »
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 06:32:34 pm »
Look, this is all bullshit scaremongering. Radioactivity of the kind  at Fukushima would long ago have become diluted in the world's oceans to the point where it was quite harmless.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:10:47 pm by Iguana »
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Online Iguana

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 09:06:48 pm »
Yes, Tyler is right.

It doesn't mean that you can't find traces of radioactive elements from Fukushima's disaster in fish. Nothing to worry about anyway, at least as long as the disaster is more or less contained.
Quote
(from your link:) the levels of cesium found in the tuna in 2012 had levels 3 percent higher than is usual.

It would be a different story if the whole crumbling plant with it's hundreds tons of highly radioactive spent fuel is washed away by a typhoon or another tsunami.

As for the apples tasting different, that would be the first time I hear that small levels of radioactivity change the taste of something!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:13:11 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline jessica

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 09:36:54 pm »
I read some really great articles from the effective microorganism company Teraganix, about using the microorganisms in the soil to mitigate and remediate radioactivity in plants and animals that are in Japan and were immediately effected by Fukushima.  The are a very beneficent company(yes I know that seems like an oxymoron), its not hype or them even trying to sell anything.  Hopefully your food is coming from a source that has high quality soil with its own native or fostered EM's.

Where are you getting your fruit from now?  Isn't it persimmon season in California? Don't pass that up!  I am in southern Oregon and I haven't noticed a difference in quality of fruit, everything that I have had that is local has been outstanding.  I just harvested some of the best rose hips I think I have ever had.  I ate some chanterelles earlier this season but I am re-thinking eating any other mushrooms because they have the ability to uptake radiation, its one of their best qualities but something I don't want to ingest.   
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:43:15 pm by jessica »

Offline Eric

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 10:08:54 pm »
For what it's worth, I do fear radioactive contamination of Pacific-caught fish and fruits and vegetables raised on the west coast of the US. I have removed all of these things from my diet. Admittedly this wasn't hard though, as I ate little of them to begin with and have been moving towards a localized diet for years.

Offline van

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 12:40:35 am »
You might want  to ask the question, what's worse;  the possible radiation or the fear of it.   You'd have to include rejecting all foods grown in Ca.,, as in beef etc. for the rains are dowsing the grass that the cows eat.   I live in northern ca. and my home grown apples are crisp and juicy. 

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 02:35:42 am »
You'd have to include rejecting all foods grown in Ca.,, as in beef etc. for the rains are dowsing the grass that the cows eat.

I'm considering rejecting foods from animals fed food from California. Ie. Eggs fed feed from California. I'm considering giving Miller's a call and asking about their chicken feed.

It would be a different story if the whole crumbling plant with it's hundreds tons of highly radioactive spent fuel is washed away by a typhoon or another tsunami.

It's my understanding it's leaking over 100,000 tons of radioactive toxins annually.

"Then yesterday, the government estimated that some 300 tons of radioactive water are pouring into the ocean each day."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=210253942

Look, this is all bullshit scaremongering. Radioactivity of the kind  at Fukushima would long ago have become diluted in the world's oceans to the point where it was quite harmless.

To each their own. I'll be eliminating produce and animal foods from California. I personally don't think 300 tons of radioactive water pouring into the ocean daily is diluted so easily.

The meltdown happened in 2011.

"Now to Japan for an update on the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. It was heavily damaged by an earthquake and resulting tsunami in March 2011, leading to several meltdowns."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=210253942

While the Japanese government doesn't say it's been leaking 300 tons daily since the accident started. 300 tons even over the course of one year (300 tons x365 days/year = 109,500 tons) is a substantial amount.

TEPCO didn't admit it till much later, but potentially it's been leaking that much the whole time.

"But certainly, it's not a good situation, and I think it's as much about public trust as anything else. It took TEPCO a long time to admit this leaking was happening."

I think the media is underestimating the true extent of the damage that will (and has been) be caused by it.

You might want  to ask the question, what's worse;  the possible radiation or the fear of it.

I think I'll feel better knowing I've eliminated the source of the radiation (at least the main source), giving me peace of mind knowing I don't need to worry about it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 03:04:33 am by DaBoss88 »
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline van

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 03:39:38 am »
Sounds like you're on it.  Keep us abreast on what you learn.  The 300 tons...  I wonder what that really means.  For instance, if one were to add one drop of radioactive water to an olympic size swimming pool, theoretically that pool would be considered radioactive waste....  do you get my meaning?   For me to stop eating food grown here in Ca.  someone would have to show scientific data revealing levels of radioactive material, in say a piece of cow, and how it related to any significant danger to my body.    Not to say I'm not interested.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2013, 04:15:19 am »
The 300 tons...  I wonder what that really means.  For instance, if one were to add one drop of radioactive water to an olympic size swimming pool, theoretically that pool would be considered radioactive waste....  do you get my meaning?

Yes. I'm not sure exactly to be honest.

For me to stop eating food grown here in Ca.  someone would have to show scientific data revealing levels of radioactive material, in say a piece of cow, and how it related to any significant danger to my body.    Not to say I'm not interested.

The articles are conflicting. Some say everything grown and raised in California are contaminated, while others say only certain things are contaminated, some say nothing is contaminated.

"Milk samples taken across the United States have shown radiation at levels 2000 percent higher than EPA maximums."

http://biontologyblogging.com/radiation-fukushima/

"Good News: It seems, as of August 2011 in California, many of the vegetables are not contaminated with radioactive isotopes.

    “8/16 (6:48pm): We just finished testing a sample of carrots and a sample of cherry tomatoes, both from a local organic farm that has supplied most of our strawberry samples. No radioactive isotopes from Japan were detected.”"

"Bad News: If you drink milk from California, there still seems to be detectible levels of radioactive Cesium.

    “9/27 (12:17pm): We have posted two new store-bought milk samples with Best By dates of 9/26 and 10/1. We continue to detect low levels of both Cs-134 and Cs-137.”

And from raw milk as well:

    “9/1 (4:22pm): Two raw milk samples were added to our raw milk page. Both samples come from a single dairy the Sacramento area, and one sample is cow milk and the other is goat milk. Both samples show detectable levels of Cs-134 and Cs-137.”"

http://geigercounter.com/fukushima-nuclear-california-dairy-products/

I'm eliminating them more on a precautionary basis. I can't say definitively that the food I've been getting from California is horribly contaminated. But I've seen so much info on food being tainted that I prefer to eliminate them and er on the side of safety. Especially considering my animal foods haven't been coming from California and they're the bulk of my diet. While plant foods make up a very small amount (maybe 5-6 pieces of fruit daily), so making sure my fruit (mainly bananas, lol) is from elsewhere is doable.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Online Iguana

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2013, 05:02:48 am »
Quote
"Bad News: If you drink milk from California, there still seems to be detectible levels of radioactive Cesium.

    “9/27 (12:17pm): We have posted two new store-bought milk samples with Best By dates of 9/26 and 10/1. We continue to detect low levels of both Cs-134 and Cs-137.”

And from raw milk as well:

    “9/1 (4:22pm): Two raw milk samples were added to our raw milk page. Both samples come from a single dairy the Sacramento area, and one sample is cow milk and the other is goat milk. Both samples show  detectable levels of Cs-134 and Cs-137.”"

Of course, there are detectable levels in milk, which concentrate radioactivity and pesticides alike (bioaccumulation in the food chain), unlike most plants. Currently, nothing to worry about, these levels remain extremely low. The radioactive water leaking into the Ocean is only slightly radioactive and 300 tons (12 tank trucks loads) are nothing compared to the total weight of the Pacific’s water.
Wikipedia:
Quote
The volume of the Pacific Ocean, representing about 50.1 percent of the world's oceanic water, has been estimated at some 714 million cubic kilometers.

1 m3 of water = 1 t (t = metric ton)
1 km3 of water = 1.000.000 t
714.000.000 km3 x 1.000.000 t = 714.000.000.000.000 t

 There are millions tons of natural uranium dissolved into the oceans.

Quote
(from your link:) the levels of cesium found in the tuna in 2012 had levels 3 percent higher than is usual.

If you're really concerned, then eating 3% less tuna and replacing it with 3% more sardines (which are smaller and much lower in the food chain, thus bioaccumulating much less) would  do!  :) ;)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 03:06:39 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 05:12:21 am »
Iguana, as usual, has a point. The levels of radioactivity are nonexistent once one  realises that the dilution in the Pacific means that the radioactivity resulting is  microscopic and harmless. It is much worse to avoid raw seafood as a result, let alone  California  raw meats.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Eric

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 06:12:04 am »
The levels of radioactivity are nonexistent once one realises that the dilution in the Pacific means that the radioactivity resulting is  microscopic and harmless.

That would be true if the radioactive water being released disbursed evenly throughout the Pacific Ocean. It doesn't. Currents move through particular tracks, and while the water will eventually disperse this may take hundreds if not thousands of years. The image below shows the relevant currents operating in the North Pacific, and you can see that the Kuroshio current grabs water from the east coast of Japan and draws it straight to the west coast of North America. The radioactive water is diluted somewhat, but not to the degree that Iguana contends.



Further, ocean currents aren't the only transport mechanism to be concerned about. The other is air deposition of radioactive particles. The east coast of the US doesn't get as much deposition traceable to Fukushima because much of the radio-isotopes carried across the Pacific will have already decayed to daughter particles. For the west coast of the US, this is unfortunately not the case. Hence people getting 'hot' readings when testing various samples taken along the west coast of North America.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 09:10:00 am by Eric »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2013, 07:15:12 am »
Eric, until you can show references to tested radiation levels in West Coast fish or plants that, according to the WHO or a US government organization, are at or above safe levels, please let it go.  We have WAY more than enough pointless paranoid fear-mongering from the ACTUAL crazy people here, without the saner ones joining in. Thank you.

Offline Eric

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2013, 09:09:02 am »
CK, if you want to rely on government agencies for things like this, you're free to do so. And so is everyone else.

There are plenty of individuals and organizations out there who are perfectly capable of correctly using geiger counters and similar instruments who have demonstrated contamination of foods with radionuclides, particularly fatty foods like ocean fish and dairy, in excess of safe levels. I'm personally unwilling to wait for government agencies to get over their denial before making adjustments in my eating patterns.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 09:14:17 am by Eric »

Offline van

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2013, 10:01:27 am »
I agree with Eric, heard a rather intelligent sounding group on public radio, sounds like there are groups covering up the big picture.  But then extremist can blow things out of the water.   Eric, why don't you simply share what you learn that sounds like documented truth (what ever that means). 

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2013, 10:06:54 am »
 People have been scaremongering about radioactivity for years. The last example was Czernobyl where unscrupulous Irish farmers pretended that their sheep were dying from radiation and tried to get compensation from the EU. Simply put, the only dangerous area is the one right next door to the radioactive leak. Once the radioactivity is dispersed via air/water in vast amounts, there is no danger., Come to think of it, some studies on Czernobyl have actually shown that wildlife there benefitted hugely from the lack of humans and did not suffer from the radiation much.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Eric

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2013, 10:15:48 am »
Quote
...Eric, why don't you simply share what you learn that sounds like documented truth (what ever that means). 

I don't have links to resources handy. If I have time I'll try to find them again. In the meantime, if you care about this then you might consider doing your own homework...

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2013, 11:55:57 am »
If there really WERE such levels of radioactivity, the US would be demanding that the Japanese pay hundreds of billions in restitution.  You can't hide this sort of thing.  You'd have to murder/disappear everyone with a Geiger counter who decided to test seafood on the West Coast. 

That's not to say there aren't government conspiracies.  I just don't think that this happens to be one.  Why would the US government conspire to help the Japanese cover up the endangering of the US food supply?  Who are they to us?  All they've ever done is attack Pearl Harbor and put our domestic manufacturing in peril with their cars and electronics.  They'd have been happy to attack the US mainland in WWII, and there are plenty of them who still couldn't care less if every American just spontaneously died.  They are, generally speaking (with individual exceptions) one of the most racist, xenophobic countries on the planet.  It's an island mentality. There's no love lost between the two governments.  The only thing keeping the relationship civil is that they have a pitiful military and a semi-democratic-ish government.

Offline Spirit Bear

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2013, 12:22:39 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNRC_1Kx-eg

For what it's worth, Patrick Flanagan's perspective on Fukushima and his recommendations. This guy's an MD and PHD and recommends a raw diet.

Offline ys

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2013, 01:33:36 pm »
Quote
Simply put, the only dangerous area is the one right next door to the radioactive leak. Once the radioactivity is dispersed via air/water in vast amounts, there is no danger., Come to think of it, some studies on Czernobyl have actually shown that wildlife there benefitted hugely from the lack of humans and did not suffer from the radiation much.

Animal prosperity is inconclusive as animal life cycle could be too short to know long term effects.  There are heavily polluted areas north-east from the ground zero.  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Chernobyl_radiation_map_1996.svg  Reports of thyroid cancer are very high in red and pink areas.

I think granite countertops are more radioactive than any spot along west coast.

Milk example does not make much sense.  Cows do not drink sea water.  No one irrigates anything with sea water.  I totally not worried about it.


Offline Spirit Bear

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2013, 01:49:46 pm »
The sea water becomes rain. I don't think the mainstream medical establishment understands how tiny, bioactive particles can affect how the body functions. Think of the vaccine controversy, mercury in fillings etc. Our understanding of nanoparticles and nanotechnology is still in its infancy and we're not going to get to the bottom of anything here.

Distributing information that runs counter to what the AMA professes to believe is supremely difficult and essentially impossible for practicing scientists and doctors, which is why I'll always take whatever precautions seem reasonable to me no matter what they say. The mainstream medical establishment has compromised their integrity with their long history of deceit and failure to provide basic preventative care.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2013, 02:23:04 pm »
Two things:

1.  Our understanding of radiation poisoning is actually pretty good, thanks to the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan. There were all levels of radiation sickness after those bombs were dropped, for years and decades afterwards. We have a really good idea what specific levels of exposure are likely to do to people.

2. Most of us here eat a relatively healthy diet.  That means, if anything, we're probably LESS likely to have long-term problems from any low-level radiation poisoning.

Granted, different people will respond in different ways, depending on their genetics, but...I think mainstream science actually is probably pretty solid and trustworthy on this particular issue, given my first point. 

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2013, 03:33:05 pm »
  Who are they to us?  All they've ever done is attack Pearl Harbor and put our domestic manufacturing in peril with their cars and electronics.  They'd have been happy to attack the US mainland in WWII, and there are plenty of them who still couldn't care less if every American just spontaneously died.  They are, generally speaking (with individual exceptions) one of the most racist, xenophobic countries on the planet.  It's an island mentality. There's no love lost between the two governments.  The only thing keeping the relationship civil is that they have a pitiful military and a semi-democratic-ish government.
Err, the above is pretty racist and absurd. Not to mention wrong.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Online Iguana

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2013, 03:56:25 pm »
Don’t misunderstand me, I think any use of nuclear fire is a big mistake, even more dangerous and damaging than use of regular fire. This is one of the reasons I left France for nuclear free Portugal. It was probably a somewhat unreasonable and overly emotional reaction after the Fukushima disaster,  but that’s it! To say that I’ve been extremely concerned with the consequences of this catastrophe.

That said, up to now these consequences have not been as dramatic as they might have been. 

It is  quite funny that DaBoss initial post quotes articles and provides links showing the opposite of what he says! For example http://geigercounter.com/fukushima-nuclear-california-dairy-products/:

Quote
This direct comparison between Fukushima fallout and atmospheric weapons fallout in these soils shows that the fallout from Fukushima in Northern California is significantly less than the amount of Cs-137 that still remains from weapons testing, which has had nearly 50 years to disperse and decay.”

Basically, what this means is that in California, we should be more concerned about the fallout from nuclear testing over the last 50 years, than the fallout from Fukushima.

The vegetables tested – at least according to UC-Berkeley – have not shown detectable levels recently. This, like I said above, is good news. Our plant food appears safe.


Up to now, I’m more concerned with other oceanic pollutions, such as from plastic and noxious chemicals. I fear that seas such as the Baltic, the Gulf of Thailand, Malacca Straights, the Mediterranean and the Gulf of Mexico are getting so polluted that fish consumption from these areas is on the way to become hazardous.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 10:01:49 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Eric

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Re: Fukushima and California
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2013, 09:22:35 pm »
Quote
Why would the US government conspire to help the Japanese cover up the endangering of the US food supply? 

To prevent a mass panic. Many of the uprisings that are part of the 'Arab Spring' have at their roots food insecurity.

If people want to continue eating Pacific caught fish and all manner of foods from Japan and the west coast of the US, please feel free to do so. All I'm saying is that I'm no longer willing to do this myself.

Bon appétit...

 

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