Author Topic: New post on advanced glycation end products  (Read 45880 times)

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Offline Eric

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New post on advanced glycation end products
« on: September 15, 2014, 09:35:32 pm »
Just finished a post on Advanced Glycation End Products (AGEs), which are formed when sugar reacts with proteins and create cross-links in long-lived structural tissues like collagen and myelin. For those who aren't aware (and I know many on this forum already are) AGEs are also formed when we cook our food at high temperatures, particularly without moisture as in frying, grilling, roasting, etc.

While other heat created toxins like heterocyclic amines, acrylamide and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are known for carcinogenic and/or mutagenic effects, AGEs have a very different mode of action. Turns out the cross-links they form in our tissues are inflammatory, and seem to play an integral role in the progression of chronic degenerative diseases like diabetes, heart disease and perhaps neurodegenerative diseases too. Dietary consumption of AGEs adds significantly to our body burdens of these compounds, so choosing foods that don't contain as much might be a wise choice for those of us who want to avoid chronic inflammation.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 11:36:12 pm by Eric »
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Offline jessica

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 10:37:59 pm »
Hey Eric the first link doesn't work, perhaps remove the quotation marks?  Excellent blogs, thank you for compiling research and making it cohesive and understandable.

Offline Eric

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 11:36:56 pm »
Thanks Jessica, sorry about that. I should have tested them right after I posted. At any rate, they're all working now.
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Offline van

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2014, 12:46:17 am »
Eric, do you plan to explain in more detail about combining protein and sugars.   I have also thought that sugar and fats do the same. 

Offline Eric

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 01:32:14 am »
I might eventually. This particular series was on heat-created toxins, so I focused on those dietary toxins that are created by heat. Advanced lipoxidation end products (ALEs) are also produced in the body due to reactions between sugars (or their degradation products) and lipids, but I didn't find any references that claim they are created by cooking food. If you know if any, definitely point me to them.
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Offline van

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2014, 02:52:20 am »
neither have I regarding cooking.  but I think Rosedale mentions sugars sticking to fats.  That's where my interest comes from.   'Many' speak of eating fat with sugar to reduce the insulin spike.  But very well may come as a consequence. 

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2014, 04:01:53 am »
I think you're onto something there, and it's something I've thought about too. After several thousand years of agricultural revolution that provided easy access to starch (that our bodies very quickly turn into sugar) and now over 100 years of industrial revolution that's provided easy access to refined sugars and starches, we've developed something of a society-wide sugar addiction. Rather than addressing this sugar addiction, 'many' would rather find ways to continue eating high sugar/starch diets while mitigating the impacts by eating yet more food. Seems like a treadmill that doesn't lead anywhere useful, at least to me.

I'll certainly write about ALEs at some point, though not quite sure when. So much to write about now that I have my blog up and running!
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Offline fireflysea

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 12:54:37 pm »
Thanks for sharing!
Recently I've been eating wayyyy too much fruit and also lots of meat and avocados. I started to get this sensation that my blood is sticky. Ick

What would you recommend raw foodists eat to have low AGEs. I have a lot of inflammation whatever I eat unless I take food enzymes (and even then sometimes). I think non-fruit green lemon juice, cucumbers, and fermented vegetables and seaweeds probably feel best, if not an entirely liquid diet. But it's not really sustainable energetically. Anyway if Combos of fats and sugars / proteins and sugars are the issue do you think we need to choose either higher fat/protein OR higher sugar from fruits and starches? Again I'm talking raw here.

Offline Inger

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 04:08:25 pm »
I eat almost only raw animal food, go heavy on raw seafood and lots of oysters... but lots of raw grassfed heart too. I have very low AGE levels.
I have it cool in my home, use minimal clothing and swim/dip in cold waters.
Cold and seafood are the best for lowering inflammation IMHO.
Also, avoid non native EMF and fake lights.

Offline Eric

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2014, 07:37:49 pm »
Inger's diet seems to work very well for her. I can tolerate more carbs and even wild fruit in season, like wild blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, crab apples and less sugary fruit like ground cherries. Everyone's body is a little different, based partly on physiological differences as well as our past experiences and the deficiencies or excesses old junk food diets created. What works for Inger or me won't necessarily work for you, you'll have to experiment to figure out what fits your body best, at different times of the year.

I know you were probably hoping someone would tell you The Answer, but I don't think that's possible...
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 05:29:40 am »
I can tolerate more carbs and even wild fruit in season, like wild blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, crab apples and less sugary fruit like ground cherries.
Interesting; those are some of my best tolerated fruits too (though I don't like the taste of cherries much, so I don't normally eat them). I also find that good quality crab apples tend to taste better than the bigger ones, yet many people don't even know that they're edible and assume that they're only for cooking with.

Did I talk about elderberries yet? One day recently a local market had them, so I bought a container of them. Wow am I glad I did! Many people are unaware that they can be eaten raw, and most use them in cooking. Thanks to Green Deane, I knew that the black ones can be eaten raw, so I did. They tasted mediocre--bland and mildly bitter, though not awful, and rather like some wild berries I've sampled, which may contribute to people thinking they have to be cooked. So taste wasn't the interesting thing. What was interesting is that within minutes of eating some I started feeling remarkably good. I ate the entire container rather quickly, felt great and wished I had more. They digested quite well. A few days later when I looked for more to buy, they were all sold out.

I had read before that elderberries are supposed to be a particularly beneficial berry, and I can believe it. I checked out Green Deane's video again, and he reported that some people get ill effects from eating too many of even the ripe, black elderberries, but I experienced only positive effects. They now rank as one of my favorite foods I've ever tried--not at all for taste, but because of the benefits.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline eveheart

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2014, 10:05:33 am »
Eric, I've been wondering about the chart "kU AGE per 100 grams" http://i2.wp.com/www.howericlives.com/wp-content/uploads/AGEs.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=500%2C400 that you posted in your blog on Advanced Glycation Endproducts. Starting on the low end with rice, bananas, apples, and celery all under 50 kU, I see that raw fish and meats range around 500 - 1000 kU. It's the rice that's been on my mind.

The text above the chart says that "foods containing processed, cooked grains" are among the foods containing the highest AGE levels. That led me to believe that the entry for rice in the chart refers to raw rice, but I was not sure about that, so I looked up values on the chart at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3704564/table/T1/. There, the value of 9kU was for cooked rice.

Reducing inflammation is my primary goal, keeping low blood sugar levels is my secondary goal. I'm very happy with my health results eating raw, but this low-AGE rice information has me wondering... I'd welcome any comments except those based on "not paleo" or phytic acid/phytates because those are clear to me already. Is rice really an ideal low-AGE food?
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Offline Inger

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2014, 03:13:28 am »
 I would never eat rice, Eveheart. I have read about stuff in it that is no good for us... I just do not remember what it was right now. And anyways it is a unnatural food for me. I have never seen any around... in the wild....nothing close to it

I would be careful with believing, only because a food is low in AGE it is good for you.... big mistake.. we need to see a way bigger picture

Offline Inger

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2014, 03:16:58 am »
If you want to reduce inflammation effectively, I recommend lots of raw seafood.. lots of it. Preferably oysters... and keep it cold..
and keep it dark = avoid fake light and stress
you will get results, I am confident :)

Offline Eric

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2014, 07:16:51 am »
Hi Eve, regarding rice there are many different types of AGEs and most only form at higher temps, or when heat is dry. Rice tends to be cooked by steaming or boiling, methods that tend not to produce AGEs in high quantities.

Just because white rice is low in AGEs doesn't mean it isn't inflammatory. There can be other things in a food that make it inflammatory besides AGEs. That said, it's been my experience that small amounts of cooked white rice eaten occasionally aren't that bad. I wouldn't want to have to live on the stuff though...
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Offline eveheart

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2014, 08:07:16 am »
Thanks, Inger and Eric. I didn't want to sound like I was contemplating rice consumption. I was just reinforcing the depth of my meager scientific knowledge. I myself "encounter" rice from time to time when I peel the fish off the rice from a piece of sushi, but I don't actually eat it. I am sharing Eric's posts with my daughter (cooked "paleo"), so I have to be able to answer a few questions.
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Offline fireflysea

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2014, 01:45:26 pm »
Thanks Inger! I bet sticking to lots of seafood and no fruit really would help me! I'm going to liquid fast a bit because I've made myself sick on food the past three weeks. Wah. And the I'll try a high seafood diet! Seafood is so delicious, one of my favorites really. But I get sick of it easily unless I have a lot of variety (And I don't unless I were to go out to sushi restaurants all the time).

Can you give an example of a days food? I live in Florida USA

Offline Inger

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2014, 03:19:10 pm »
Fireflysea,
you need to listen to what your body needs, using your intellect simultaneously

I sometimes crave organs/meat/beef fat when I have been eating lots of seafood for days. Means my body craves saturated fat - so I eat it
You need to exercise your sensitivity - and you do that by living in tune with the nature! The more unnatural life you live (being much inside... fake lights... fake temps... fake foods... too little sun, too much clothes...etc) the less good your intuition will work about what is good for you.

This is what I often have for breakfast, oysters picked by me, and raw wild salmon (more often I do herring or mackerel) in ACV/lemon/limejuice and raw onions + a little sea salt, you can add grated ginger too / a little raw wild honey if you like
The greens are wild crispy salty things I have picked by the shore - so yummy!



so yummy oysters......



This is Galloway meat from a local farm... it is divine. Only pastured, get some hay in winter.. Galloway is my favorite so far. They grow very slowly, and they are an old kind of cattle from Scotland..



I usually eat 2 meals of seafood an 1 land animal, which mostly is raw heart, I also do raw liver once in a while.

I often do raw nuts for dessert, I love hazelnuts! I eat the a lot now in summer and fall. Almost every day. I love pistachios too.... and I sometimes eat coconut, in summer. I have some organic young coconuts in my fridge now.... they are not native to here but I do allow myself to eat them in summer... I love the juice and the meat!

Offline fireflysea

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2014, 11:47:52 am »
Wow Inger that all looks delicious!!!! Mmmm I love those greens, I've had them before, here they are often called "sea beans". Omg oysters are my favorites! Wonderful that you can harvest oysters and sea beans yourself!!!! You chose a wonderful place to live it seems!
I really want to fast for a bit but the bingeing initiated after I ate something I am intolerant to (which kills the villi in my intestines, which means lack of micronutrient absorption, which is the only thing that leads me to binge these days when my body is like wtf where are my nutrients).  So maybe if I focus on seafood and meat only (with maybe a but of raw fermented veg or acv/lemon juice and green juice) for a bit first my inflammation will go down and I'll be able to fast after. We'll see!

Unfortunately I'm intolerant to most nuts so those are off the menu for me, tho recently I had a handful of almonds and cashews to retest my sensitivity and wound up in the hospital! Agh.  I do love coconut tho and it's not te best for me but I do eat it!  I' really don't know how to stop the bingeing at this point. I keep thinking I'm so done and then wind up doing it again . Wah! But I just need to get myself together lol.  I know when I do have fish and no carbs and stuff I always feel better and less inflamed.

Thanks for the ideas and delicious photos inger!!! <3

Offline eveheart

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2014, 12:29:31 pm »
I really don't know how to stop the bingeing at this point. I keep thinking I'm so done and then wind up doing it again.

Fireflysea, I was told I had binge-eating disorder... and I had all the symptoms until I starting eating raw paleo. Seriously! I'm never out of control when I stick to raw foods in good proportions.

I try to eat as my paleolithic ancestors would have eaten - with the seasons. That really answers my questions about when, which food, and how much food to eat. I live in a temperate zone, so fruit would be some berries for a few weeks in the summer and stone fruits in the summer or fall. If you've ever had a stone fruit tree, you will know how short the harvest is for each variety.

Thinking about the food inhibition/food disinhibition cycles of binge-eating disorder, I would advise against fasting.
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Offline Joy2012

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2014, 01:05:33 pm »
I eat almost only raw animal food, go heavy on raw seafood and lots of oysters... but lots of raw grassfed heart too. I have very low AGE levels.
I have it cool in my home, use minimal clothing and swim/dip in cold waters.
Cold and seafood are the best for lowering inflammation IMHO.
Also, avoid non native EMF and fake lights.
Inger, you look very good in your photo.
One thing I don't understand: According to the charts mentioned in this thread, raw seafood is high in AGE (in the hundreds of units) compared with vegetables/cooked starches. So how come you have very low AGE levels?

Offline fireflysea

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2014, 02:44:12 pm »
Eveheart,
Thank you love! Such good points :). I've been raw for 8+ years so I actually don't even know how to eat "normal" foods anymore. I binge on raw foods, lately to the point of it being quite scary. I usually don't eat really anything processed, raw or not, but when in binge mode as I've been all month since I ate some almonds (I'm allergic/intolerant), I will sometimes eat more processed raw foods if they are around out of "desperation" (like coconut oil, coconut butter, raw macaroons, date-coconut balls, etc). I've gained 10 lbs of fat this month, it's a very high weight for me. but the part that actually bothers me is that I FEEL intensely swollen, achey, and fly like every day. Fasting really helps calm my inflammation but I know it can lead to bingeing again.

Offline Eric

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2014, 09:33:32 pm »
Figuring out what's causing the inflammation and not eating that anymore will also take care of your symptoms, and will do it more gently than a fast. Not that fasts aren't useful, they can be, I'm just not sure one would help all that much if you haven't cut the culprit food from your diet first.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2014, 11:41:46 pm »
...I've been raw for 8+ years so I actually don't even know how to eat "normal" foods anymore. I binge on raw foods, lately to the point of it being quite scary. I usually don't eat really anything processed, raw or not, but when in binge mode as I've been all month since I ate some almonds (I'm allergic/intolerant), I will sometimes eat more processed raw foods if they are around out of "desperation" (like coconut oil, coconut butter, raw macaroons, date-coconut balls, etc)....

The foods you mentioned are all processed foods. Paleolithic people wouldn't eat almonds that have been stored for months (so are available year-found), coconut butter that has been separated from the coconut meat, blended foods like macaroons and date-coconut balls, etc. Pretend you are a hunter-gatherer. Eat that way.
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Offline Inger

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Re: New post on advanced glycation end products
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2014, 03:16:42 am »
Inger, you look very good in your photo.
One thing I don't understand: According to the charts mentioned in this thread, raw seafood is high in AGE (in the hundreds of units) compared with vegetables/cooked starches. So how come you have very low AGE levels?


Because I do not eat any sugar / carbs. Except some green veggie here and there and wild herbs and wild berries and very little raw wild honey and I do eat raw nuts - I do carbs seasonally. I avoid carbs in winter. I eat a little bit in summer but also then have days where I am zero carb.

high sugar intake and stress (also exercise!) gives you higher AGE level in your body too

I eat around 3000 calories / day, high protein, high fat, do zero exercise, am 38 yo in a few days and 166 cm

I still have muscles, even if being that sedentary and eating so many calories
I feel very strong and healthy
(pic from a few weeks ago)



« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 03:24:52 am by Inger »

 

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