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Messages - robbie1687

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General Discussion / Re: Sashimi knife for raw meat?
« on: October 30, 2009, 05:27:17 am »
Carnivorous mead!  :)    If there's a paleo alcoholic beverage, that's gotta be i!  :)

General Discussion / Re: pictures of grass fed meat and fat?
« on: October 30, 2009, 05:20:16 am »
It's white in real life too.  It wasn't just the camera.

General Discussion / Re: pictures of grass fed meat and fat?
« on: October 30, 2009, 01:38:57 am »
Now I'm wondering.  Do chuck roasts from Slankers have that much fat?

General Discussion / Re: pictures of grass fed meat and fat?
« on: October 30, 2009, 12:58:29 am »
Here's a slice of a grass-fed beef chuck roast from US Wellness that I just ate for lunch.   I don't know whether it's low or high quality, but as you can see, this particular roast has a lot of fat in it. It tastes very mild and fresh.   Not much taste at all.

By the way, in case anybody interprets this post as an endorsement of US Wellness, I think their whole cuts (like this chuck roast) are okay but I strongly recommend that you stay away from their "suet" (which is actually miscellaneous soft fat), tallow, and ground beef.   (Their ground bison is fine, it's made by another company, Northstar.)

General Discussion / Re: meat dehydrating
« on: October 30, 2009, 12:01:02 am »
A few weeks ago I was about to buy a dehydrator and asked for suggestions here.  But then it occurred to me that I sometimes dry socks in front of a fan and it takes only a couple of hours.  Then I happened to read somewhere that air movement has a greater drying effect than heat.

So I hung some strips in front of a window fan.  They  got dry enough to be chewy in about two or three hours and completely dry by the end of the day, maybe eight or twelve hours.  My strips are about 1/8" or 3/16" thick.

Once I saw how great this works, I bought a couple of "kebab racks" for $4.99 each.  These are teflon-covered mini grills that clamp together like long clamshells.  You can put strips of meat on them and clamp them shut.  I hang the racks in front of the fan.

I've done this on plates too, but it takes longer because water can evaporate from only one side of the meat.  I also tried paper plates (which wick water away from the underside of the meat) but bits of paper stick to the meat.

I can't remember if I've tried this on an extremely humid day, but it wasn't particularly dry when I did it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any need for a dehydrator for meat.

General Discussion / Re: Sashimi knife for raw meat?
« on: October 29, 2009, 11:46:29 pm »
Thanks for the answers!

I agree that slicing meat when it's partly frozen is a great tip -- I've noticed that too.

To the folks who use ceramic knives, a question.   Have any of you compared your ceramic knifes to well-sharpened carbon steel knives?  The reason I ask is that every time I read about ceramic knives on websites where knife fanatics hang out, people say they aren't as sharp as well-sharpened carbon steel knives.   They say the advantage of a ceramic knife is not that it's sharper than the best steel knives, but that it keeps its edge a long time.    However I have my own sharpening equipment and I don't mind resharpening my knives as frequently as necessary, so this isn't an advantage for me.

Quote from: phatdave
Perhaps consider that if you are spending that much on one knife to get something more all purpose. Of course if depends what you might use it for, and I am indeed heavily biased towards my cleaver because of its sheer quality!

My current knives work fine for everything else I cut.   I really only need this knife for raw meat.   Since you love your cleaver for its quality, I think probably you can appreciate why I want the Masamoto yaganabi.   Apparently white carbon steel can take a sharper edge than any other knife material.  (It also corrodes the fastest and requires the most maintenance.)

Quote from: RawZi
I put meat in unheated honey (actually it was just the cappings of the honey) the other day, and in less than a couple hours it drew so much liquid from it, that the meat got very hard. 

That sounds yummy, and it's interesting, maybe the same principle could be applied with other substances like salt.  Unfortunately for me, though, I don't eat sugar.

General Discussion / Sashimi knife for raw meat?
« on: October 27, 2009, 06:04:08 pm »
I buy a lot of  roasts and slice them into strips or bite-sized pieces.  I've been sharpening my knives fanatically but they don't do a good job, especially when trying to cut thin, long, uniform slices for drying.

It seems to me that a sashimi knife (the kind used by chefs in Japanese restaurants) would be the perfect tool.  Has anyone tried this, or does anyone have a different recommendation?

I'm thinking in particular of getting a Masamoto KS (white steel) 30 cm yanagiba.   They cost almost $400 with shipping but since it will be practically my only kitchen implement, what the hell.  :)

Journals / Re: Rob's journal
« on: September 28, 2009, 06:41:36 am »
I tried some more 87% raw and didn't like it so much.  Maybe I fooled myself the first time because it was new and I was excited.  :)

Any advice on a dehydrator?  Folks on Amazon seem to like the Nesco FD75-PR:

Journals / Re: Rob's journal
« on: September 28, 2009, 04:19:12 am »
I can't stand the taste of raw ground beef either.

It's just the 75% lean I don't like, and I think maybe it's because something yucky got ground into that one batch.  I never ordered it before so I don't know if this batch is different than usual.

I also bought 87% lean from the same place (US Wellness) and I like it raw.  It's not because of the fat content.  They taste very different.

I tried store-bought grainfed and it was awful. I later tried the chili meat grind from Slankers and I didn't like it either. I tried dehydrating it (at 95*F, well below the threshold to keep the good enzymes) and it came out great. I ate it fresh out of the dehydrator so it was warm and it was a welcome change from the texture of raw meat. It's still very fatty so you couldn't use the dehydrating to store the meat but it's a thought to consider if the meat in the freezer isn't so good. Better than tossing it out. :)

I'll try dehydrating some.  Thanks for the idea.  Do you spread it out in a thin layer or what?

Journals / Re: Rob's journal
« on: September 28, 2009, 03:18:38 am »
do you know the percentages of fat:protein:carbs you've tried for 'more ketogenic'?

not that i'm encouraging you to make a science out of your meals ;) ... just curious if you have an idea.

I used to weigh everything to the gram, mostly from curiosity, but I never aimed at a particular percentage.

When I want to be "more ketogenic" I just eat extremely low carbs (maybe two pieces of celery the whole day) and make sure there's a lot of fat mixed in with my protein.   Sometimes I eat saturated fat by itself, e.g. a piece of tallow.

I guess I never bothered to calculate because whenever I eat this way, my body pretty quickly shifts gears.  I can feel when it happens because the feeling of hunger changes and there's a sort of pleasant buzz to the body.  

Let me tell you about a friend, since her story is more interesting and sheds more light on this.   Her gall bladder was removed so she can't eat very much fat.  If she does, she gets sick.

She's been obese since infancy, and she's 5' 5".    

Last year she weighed 270 pounds.  I convinced her to try an ultra-low carb diet.  I was worried that it wouldn't work because she can't eat very much fat.  Her diet would have to be mostly protein, and the body can turn protein into glucose.

But within a few weeks her appetite plummeted, an indication that her body had started to rely largely on its stored supplies.

She's been doing this for almost 14 months now.  She eats as much as she wants, and that's very little, usually a single small meal or maybe two.  On a typical day she'll eat five chicken livers sauteed in two tablespoons of butter and some spinach.  That's her upper limit for fat; that amount sometimes makes her a little sick, but she puts up with it.  I'm picking this meal because it's probably the most fat she ever eats in one day.

I don't know if she's in ketosis physiologically but pretty clearly she's burning mostly fat since she's lost a lot of weight and she feels  stronger and healthier and more energetic than ever, indicating that she isn't sacrificing very much lean tissue.  (She's replaced her clothes about five times too!)

Here's how her intake breaks down on that day (again, that's a high-fat day for her):

Total kcal: 716 (she's eating as much as she wants!)

Protein: 79 grams = 44% of kcal
Fat: 42 grams = 53% of kcal
Carb: 22 grams = 3% of kcal

I conclude from this that it's possible (for her, at least) to be in ketosis (or at least burn lots of body fat) when eating as little as 53% of calories as fat.

Journals / Re: Rob's journal
« on: September 28, 2009, 01:09:27 am »
Yeah I thought soy sauce would be nice but it tends to give me migraines so I avoid it.  

Even though raw meat reminded me of sashimi I felt no desire to put wasabi on it.  But cilantro and onions and cucumber and salt and lemons came to mind immediately, even though I normally don't eat those things.  (Onions give me migraines too, even a small amount.)

I don't have any special complaints that I'm trying to solve with diet, except that I gained some abdominal fat over the summer because I ate tons of fruit.  But that's been going away because I made my diet more ketogenic (less carbs, less excess protein, more saturated fat).

Journals / Re: Rob's journal
« on: September 28, 2009, 12:23:53 am »
Thanks for the friendly encouragement, Ioanna.

This is the fifth day I've been eating raw meat and I haven't noticed any change or reaction.

Except that I realized I hate the taste of the US Wellness 75% ground beef that's stockpiled in my freezer.  I didn't particularly like it when it was cooked, but when I tried to eat it raw, I realized it's truly horrible.  I ended up throwing it away.   (I also bought some 87% packages and they're fine.  They taste completely different.)

Good thing I chose some other package of meat on my first day as a raw eater, otherwise I might have given up before I started.

If I notice anything, I'll let you know.

Journals / Rob's journal
« on: September 26, 2009, 12:04:47 am »
I dislike starting a public journal because it implies an obligation to keep going, and for all I know, I'll lose interest tomorrow.

But here goes.

A few days ago I stumbled across this forum and was impressed by the fact that lots of people eat raw meat without getting sick.

Reading about food made me hungry, and eventually I went to the refrigerator and took out a package of Northstar bison that had been defrosting overnight.   Without much thought, I cut off three narrow strips and put them on a plate.

The idea of eating these dense cold red strips didn't seem strange.  They reminded me of tuna sashima.  Raw fish has been one of my favorite foods since I was a small boy, when my father took me to a Japanese restaurant for the first time.   That was nearly a half century ago.

It's odd how certain old memories seem vivid and completely certain.  A half century later, I can still see the simple, elegant interior of the restaurant -- at least it seems as if I can.   I remember the waitresses in their obis and spangled kimonos smiling at me in the way that women do with children.

One of the waitresses put a tray with nigiri sushi before me.   I had never seen it before.  I couldn't believe how good it tasted.  The combination of raw fish, wasabi, soy sauce and (forgive me, I'm being honest) sugary vinegared rice -- it was like nothing I had ever tasted, but fantastically good.  As good as chocolate cake, but utterly unlike chocolate cake!

So here I was two nights ago, a half century later, long past the age when pretty young women dote on me for no particular reason, looking at three narrow strips of bright red buffalo muscle, thinking it looked like sashimi and not put off in the least.

I should mention that I only started eating grass fed meat about two weeks ago.  My first reaction to grass fed beef, when I ate it cooked,  was that it tastes a bit like fish.  Maybe that's my reaction to the higher omega 3 content.

I tasted one of the raw bison strips cautiously.  It tasted quite good.   I liked it.  In fact I liked it very much.   

The meat was very lean, though, and I'm trying to stay in ketosis as much as possible because I gained a bit of abdominal fat over the summer, so I added a few small pieces of grass fed butter to the plate and ate them with the other two strips.  They didn't go well together.

I waited a few hours to see I would get sick, but I felt fine.  Later that night I ate most of the rest of the bison together with some cucumber slices.  For some reason I felt like adding salt, although I rarely do, so I did.  It was a fine meal.

All together I ate about 14 ounces of raw meat on my first day.

Welcoming Committee / Re: Greetings and questions from Pittsburgh
« on: September 25, 2009, 10:35:47 pm »
-Brain fog is also personally very impairing--any advise on dealing with this?
I agree with what the others have said about omega 3 and low carbs.   My experience was the same, they made me mentally more clear.

I would just add that you might want to think about the extreme ketogenic diets that doctors use to treat epileptic children.    You can adapt the principles to a raw paleo diet.  The principles are consistent with the earlier advice.

The basic idea of these medical diets is that they force the brain to use ketones rather than glucose to the maximum extent possible.  The diets are complicated because they are used on children (who tend to be noncompliant and for whom inadequate protein has much worse consequences than it does in adults) but basically, you limit protein to what you absolutely need and maximize fat, particularly medium chain saturated fat which (for practical purposes) means you eat a lot of coconut oil.

I tried this sort of diet for about a month to see if it would help my migraines, and it did for a while.  It also seemed to increase mental clarity.

I would also add -- and I'm speculating here -- that the reason why most people benefit from omega 3 supplements is because they are eating a ton of industrial vegetable oils and grain-fed meats that contain whopping overdoses of omega 6.  But if most of your fatty acids come from grass fed meat, which has a healthy 3:6 ratio, then I'm not sure the supplements are beneficial.    I'm not an expert on this,  but since I've switched to grass-fed meat, I've stopped taking omega 3 supplements.  I've never liked the idea of of consuming artificially extracted polyunsaturated fat since it's very susceptible to oxidation.

... so what are the reasons FOR cooking?
Until a couple days ago I would have said the main reason is killing pathogens.   If that's not an issue, then I don't think there are any good reasons.

Another thing I've always disliked about cooking meat is that (in my kitchen at least, where the ventilation is poor) fat vaporizes and condenses on the walls and makes everything greasy.

I ate another six ounces of raw liver last night.  This time I was struck not by the slimy texture or unfamiliar taste or beautiful beet-like color but by the fact that I was nourishing myself by eating another living thing's body.  

Of course we do that all the time when we eat muscle, but I'm used to that.  This was the animal's liver, the vital center of its metabolism, one of the cornerstones of its life force.   It had a sort of spiritual impact.

And the liquid was so red, and looked so much like fresh blood.  It was on my hands and all over the plate.  I felt like a real carnivore, like a lion in a Youtube video with its face immersed in a zebra's flank.  

It was sobering.

How nice! So what are you planning on eating next?

The rest of the liver -- gotta finish it!  :)    I have a craving to try suet and marrow.

Quote from: Ioanna
I hope you'll keep a journal!!

Thanks for the welcome!    Maybe I will.

Until yesterday it had never occurred to me to eat raw meat.    I've always assumed it could be dangerous.  But yesterday I stumbled across this forum and read for several hours.  Lex's journal made a particularly big impression.

I noticed that there are a lot of people here eating raw meat -- even rotten raw meat -- and very little sickness.

Reading about food made me hungry, so after a while I went to the refrigerator and took out a package of Northstar ground bison which had been defrosting overnight.   I had been planning to cook it.  I sliced off three narrow strips and ate it standing at the counter.   It tasted good.   It tasted like a kind of sashimi.  Really, it tasted quite good.

A couple of hours went by and I didn't get sick, so I ate most of the rest of the package.   In all, I ate about 14 ounces of raw bison yesterday.   I ate half of it plain and the other half sandwiched on thin slices of cucumber with a little salt.  It was a nice meal.

Just now I read some more and decided to try something more adventurous, so I defrosted a package of grass-fed beef liver.  (I started buying this stuff from US Wellness two weeks ago.)

The thing is, I hate beef liver.   I bought this piece as an experiment, expecting to throw it out after I cooked it.

I sliced off a tiny piece and tasted it cautiously.   I tried to taste it as if for the first time.   It wasn't bad.   I ate the second piece.  Really, not bad at all.  But the liver was very cold, just barely defrosted, and that dulls the taste.  For a full experiment a sliced off a fairly large piece and kept it in my mouth till it warmed up and chewed thoroughly.   It really isn't bad.

I've been on a more-or-less paleo diet for about two years, but if I hadn't stumbled across this forum yesterday, I don't know if I would ever have tried raw meat.

Now I have, and I imagine I'll mostly eat it that way for the rest of my life.  It seems obvious to me that it's a good idea to try to eat foods that evolution designed us to eat, and clearly raw foods come closer to that ideal than cooked ones.

I'd like to thank everybody here and especially Lex.

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