Author Topic: Journal of a carnivore  (Read 40917 times)

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carnivore

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Journal of a carnivore
« on: July 15, 2009, 07:50:47 pm »
OK : I need to start writing a journal if I want to improve my health. 

I began eating raw carnivorous 7 months ago, mainly raw beef and tallow and raw butter (because of a lack of beef fat). Sometimes pork, lamb and horse. I have already done a 4 months carnivorous experiment last year but I was forced to stop because of arrhythmia caused by an excess of fat intake.

Today, I suffer from these symptoms that are all related to an excess of food and maldigestion :

-High pulse (around 80pbm)
-Poor energy
-Cramps
-Abdominal pain when I press my stomach
-Flatulence
-Fugitive pain in my left thigh
-Blurred vision

My teeth are also very sensitive but it comes after taking some betain HCL (to try to improve my digestion). I think this should disappear with time.

My digestive ability is very weak : the meat should be very tender, ground or pulverised, and the fat should be melted, otherwise I don't digest them very well. Except for pork that I can digest more easily without “processing”.

I need to eat slowly, chew and insalivate well my food, in order to eat just what my body needs,  to improve my digestion, and eliminate all the unpleasant symptoms.

I know it will require some discipline for me, but I don't see any other path...

Following Lex advices, I am going to weight my food intake, simply eat ground beef+tallow (or sometimes pemmican).

I am not yet ready to do one meal a day, so my idea is to eat approximately the same amount of food per day according to my hunger (starting with 500g ground beef and 100g tallow) , in 2 (or more) meals.

I am afraid to loose weight and  starve! Let's see.

Next week, I won't have anymore grass-fed beef and fat until autumn. So I will buy some grain-fed beef. As for fat, I don't know what to choose between grain-fed fat (white) and  raw organic butter (yellow) from pastured cow. I will probably follow my taste, and eat butter, that I will clarified at low temp.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 08:02:56 pm by carnivore »

Offline Nicola

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 09:00:41 pm »
Following Lex advices, I am going to weight my food intake, simply eat ground beef+tallow (or sometimes pemmican).


Do I understand right - did Lex tell you to weigh your food intake? Thats not "simply" eating meat and fat to appetite!

Nicola

carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 10:28:29 pm »
Lex :

"Look carefully at how much fat you are eating.  If it is over 20% by weight (which
is 72% calories from fat), then this may be why you are having some issue with fat.
Try cutting the fat down and see what happens.  Don't worry, if you go to low,
you'll start to crave the fat well before you have any health issue.  Just follow
your cravings if this happens and you'll be fine."

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 12:18:37 am »
Carnivore,
The symptoms listed in your initial post sound very familiar.  I went through ALL of them.  I had arrhythmia/palpitations, pulse went from low 60's into the 80s, poor energy, leg cramps (especially at night), bouts of constipation followed by loose bowels, and on and on.  It just seems to be part of the body adjusting from burning carbs as its primary fuel to burning fatty acids as its primary fuel.  Some of these issues lasted for several months, others went away after several weeks.  As I remember, my heart rate took about 6 months before it was back down in the 60s and the palpitations went away.  Bowels and digestive issues cleared up in about 3-4 months.  Leg cramps took about a year.  Interesting that my energy was initially bad for many weeks and then overnight I suddenly felt great - like a swith flipped on.

Lex

carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 01:46:50 am »
Lex, it is seven months since I began this carnivore diet. It should be enough to see some improvements, don't you think ?

I have noticed that the symptoms are related to the amount of food I eat, especially fat.
I have also noticed that the more I masticate, the better it is.
Some food gives me more energy, like pork or pemmican.
I also like diversity, I am getting bored of beef.

So I believe I am doing something wrong : too much food, maybe too frequent eating, not enough mastication, not enough diversity, wrong food, etc...

Actually, the most important thing for me is to have enough energy. And I try to understand what causes these energy swings. Last year, I ate mainly pork during 4 months and I was full of energy. Now that I eat mainly beef, my energy is often too low.



William

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 06:38:40 am »
I started vlc or zero carb because I'd had severe occasional heart arrhythmia since 1995. They gradually decreased on increasingly strict raw paleo, and disappeared entirely when I started pemmican only, last September.

I still eat ground meat once in a while, but sear it for a few seconds per side, and always add some tallow, trying for 25% by eyeball, to make 80% by calorie.
My guess is that the low energy might be from eating too little tallow. Eat only when you are hungry, and if enough fat, that will probably be once/day. Excess meat becomes glucose.

"> The key -- and very few well-informed, well-meaning low carb paleo
> advocates get this -- is to LIMIT PROTEIN INTAKE to approximately 100g
> per day, making up the balance in quality fats.  For those starting out,
> it can be hard to do for the first few days.  But once over that hump,
> it becomes almost instinctive.


"excerpt from Phinney's review "Ketogenic Diets and 
Physical Performance":

"The third dietary factor potentially affecting physical performance 
is adjusting protein intake to bring it within the optimum 
therapeutic window for human metabolism. The studies noted herein 
[13-15,20] demonstrate effective preservation of lean body mass and 
physical performance when protein is in the range of 1.2 – 1.7 g/kg 
reference body weight daily, provided in the context of adequate 
minerals. Picking the mid-range value of 1.5 g/kg-d, for adults with 
reference weights ranging from 60–80 kg, this translates into total 
daily protein intakes 90 to 120 g/d. This number is also consistent 
with the protein intake reported in the Bellevue study [9]"

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 05:16:53 pm »
William -
so how you'd explain carnivore animals that eat a lot of meat and are in very good condition?
The protein intake depends upon many factors, such as age, sex, weight, heitht, physical and mental activity, etc.
For me 100 g of protein is definitely not enough - I eat about 150-170 g with fat intake 300-400 g (my age is 25, my height 194 cm, weight 82 kg)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 05:38:11 pm »
So you eat mainly a pemmican diet ?
What ration of fat/protein do you use in your pemmican ?
And how much do you eat a day ?

My issue is that the more I eat fat, the more my pulse increases (among other symptoms), even after 7 months of carnivorism...
I have to limit my fat intake, but the drawback is I lack energy...
One large meal a day is also very heavy to digest for me for the moment.

I started vlc or zero carb because I'd had severe occasional heart arrhythmia since 1995. They gradually decreased on increasingly strict raw paleo, and disappeared entirely when I started pemmican only, last September.

I still eat ground meat once in a while, but sear it for a few seconds per side, and always add some tallow, trying for 25% by eyeball, to make 80% by calorie.
My guess is that the low energy might be from eating too little tallow. Eat only when you are hungry, and if enough fat, that will probably be once/day. Excess meat becomes glucose.

"> The key -- and very few well-informed, well-meaning low carb paleo
> advocates get this -- is to LIMIT PROTEIN INTAKE to approximately 100g
> per day, making up the balance in quality fats.  For those starting out,
> it can be hard to do for the first few days.  But once over that hump,
> it becomes almost instinctive.


"excerpt from Phinney's review "Ketogenic Diets and 
Physical Performance":

"The third dietary factor potentially affecting physical performance 
is adjusting protein intake to bring it within the optimum 
therapeutic window for human metabolism. The studies noted herein 
[13-15,20] demonstrate effective preservation of lean body mass and 
physical performance when protein is in the range of 1.2 – 1.7 g/kg 
reference body weight daily, provided in the context of adequate 
minerals. Picking the mid-range value of 1.5 g/kg-d, for adults with 
reference weights ranging from 60–80 kg, this translates into total 
daily protein intakes 90 to 120 g/d. This number is also consistent 
with the protein intake reported in the Bellevue study [9]"


carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 05:42:10 pm »
I think human don't have the same metabolism as true carnivore animals, because we are not!
We have a big brain, and a longer digestive system.
Do we know if true carnivores convert proteins into carbs as we do ?

William -
so how you'd explain carnivore animals that eat a lot of meat and are in very good condition?
The protein intake depends upon many factors, such as age, sex, weight, heitht, physical and mental activity, etc.
For me 100 g of protein is definitely not enough - I eat about 150-170 g with fat intake 300-400 g (my age is 25, my height 194 cm, weight 82 kg)

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 05:53:56 pm »
I think human don't have the same metabolism as true carnivore animals, because we are not!
We have a big brain, and a longer digestive system.
Do we know if true carnivores convert proteins into carbs as we do ?
the same - not, but we're quite similar to them
Some native Inuits could eat about 5 kg of meat per day (with some fat) - it was described in some Farley Mowat's book
Fore me 1 kg of muscle-meat and some fatty organ-meats is enough - I eat it once for several hours in the end of the day
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 06:13:15 pm »
For how long have you been eating like that ?
You personal experience just proves that it works for you. And I would be pleased that it works also for me...

But it is however clear that our ancestors were omnivores, not carnivores.

the same - not, but we're quite similar to them
Some native Inuits could eat about 5 kg of meat per day (with some fat) - it was described in some Farley Mowat's book
Fore me 1 kg of muscle-meat and some fatty organ-meats is enough - I eat it once for several hours in the end of the day

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 06:22:41 pm »
But it is however clear that our ancestors were omnivores, not carnivores.
I agree
Apart from meat and fat I also eat some fruits and honey
carnivorous animals such as coyots also eat some berries
For how long have you been eating like that ?
You personal experience just proves that it works for you. And I would be pleased that it works also for me...
I'm rawpaleoeater for over a 1,5 year; one big meal at the end of day I started about half of the year ago - the beginning was hard but after some time I get used to it
I eat quite a lot of fat and it works for me; some other people do better with leaner diet
You'll have to experiment and discover what will be best for you :)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 07:07:53 pm »
one big meal at the end of day I started about half of the year ago - the beginning was hard but after some time I get used to it

Can you elaborate ? What was hard ? Any symptoms at the beginning ?

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 07:30:19 pm »
Can you elaborate ? What was hard ? Any symptoms at the beginning ?
The feeling of hunger during a day was hard ;)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

carnivore

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 07:42:56 pm »
What about eating in the morning ?
No more hunger during the day.
According to Art Devany, going to be on an empty stomach increases GH production...


The feeling of hunger during a day was hard ;)

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 08:09:38 pm »
What about eating in the morning ?
No more hunger during the day.
According to Art Devany, going to be on an empty stomach increases GH production...
Eating in the morning has never been important for me, although I ate some breakfasts before IF.
Now I eat some fruits at 9 a.m. and then 1 large meat-and-fat meal at 5 to 9 p.m. - that is now in the summer, when there are good fresh berries to eat; when the season will end I'll probably return to not eating anything throughout the whole day till late afternoon - only ocassionally I'll eat my frozen berries (I've got already bilberries and black currents in my freezer)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

William

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 08:39:08 pm »
William -
so how you'd explain carnivore animals that eat a lot of meat and are in very good condition?
The protein intake depends upon many factors, such as age, sex, weight, heitht, physical and mental activity, etc.
For me 100 g of protein is definitely not enough - I eat about 150-170 g with fat intake 300-400 g (my age is 25, my height 194 cm, weight 82 kg)

Don't need to explain carnivore animals, note their short lifespan. It's as if they are running superchargers often.

Hypothetically, protein need should depend on how much repair one needs. This is a personal choice, and will vary a lot according to level of physical activity and level of health.
I think that on raw zero carb our bodies need do a lot more repair if we have been damaged by long illness.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2009, 08:44:14 pm »
Don't need to explain carnivore animals, note their short lifespan. It's as if they are running superchargers often.
Their short lifespan is due to the wild dangerous conditions in which they live - wolves in North Canada, for example, live in very harsh conditions, where there is shortage of food
the same applies to paleo people and their short lifespan
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

William

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2009, 08:49:40 pm »
So you eat mainly a pemmican diet ?
What ration of fat/protein do you use in your pemmican ?
And how much do you eat a day ?

My issue is that the more I eat fat, the more my pulse increases (among other symptoms), even after 7 months of carnivorism...
I have to limit my fat intake, but the drawback is I lack energy...
One large meal a day is also very heavy to digest for me for the moment.


Propation of fat/protein was whatever result from the 50/50 mix of tallow and jerky; I have more energy on more tallow but needs seem to vary with the kind of fat from which the tallow is made.

I noticed a faster pulse too for a few months, I'm guessing that this is a detox reaction.

I eat about 1/2 pound pemmican a day all in the evening, don't move much afterwards but I don't feel stuffed.

William

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2009, 09:08:08 pm »
Their short lifespan is due to the wild dangerous conditions in which they live - wolves in North Canada, for example, live in very harsh conditions, where there is shortage of food
the same applies to paleo people and their short lifespan

See the movie "Never Cry Wolf" - not a dangerous life, but very physically active, plenty of food.
The only historical record of paleo lifespan is 250,000 years; I would not call that short.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2009, 09:37:53 pm »
See the movie "Never Cry Wolf" - not a dangerous life, but very physically active, plenty of food.
I saw this movie, but I didn't see plenty of food
watch some documentary movies about wildlife of wolves - You'll see what it is look like
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline rafonly

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mindful physiology
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2009, 03:26:07 am »

carnivore:
you began your journal by stating
Today, I suffer from these symptoms that are all related to an excess of food and maldigestion :
-High pulse (around 80pbm)
-Poor energy
-Cramps
-Abdominal pain when I press my stomach
-Flatulence
-Fugitive pain in my left thigh
-Blurred vision

etc. etc.

i wonder,
have you familiarized yourself w/ all the materials offered at the mindful physiology site -- esp the 2 articles by lichtfield?

after all breathing is more fundamental or primary than food itself

http://www.bp.edu/

"time & gradient precede existence", me

William

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2009, 04:58:45 am »


But it is however clear that our ancestors were omnivores, not carnivores.


We learn that chemical analysis of the bones of paleolithic man is identical to the chemical analysis of wild African lions.

So yes, our ancestors were omnivores, but not in the paleolithic, and not in good health.
We have been proving this for ~12,000 years. Enough!

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Journal of a carnivore
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2009, 09:55:33 am »
We learn that chemical analysis of the bones of paleolithic man is identical to the chemical analysis of wild African lions.

I'm interested in how this works and if I can read about it.

carnivore

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Re: mindful physiology
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2009, 11:54:18 am »

i wonder,
have you familiarized yourself w/ all the materials offered at the mindful physiology site -- esp the 2 articles by lichtfield?

after all breathing is more fundamental or primary than food itself

http://www.bp.edu/



Thank you for the link that I have looked through, but I don't see how it can help me?

 

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