Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 640378 times)

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Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1200 on: October 15, 2010, 03:26:42 pm »
I referred to wild carnivores eating other wild animals in nature. Lions, for example, certainly eat lean meat in nature, but don´t starve because of that.

I referred to WILD animals, because hunters usually hunt native wild animals and not cows. These "obese cultures" in the tropics certainly eat neolithic food. Do you know any hunter-gatherer culture that is obese?

You wrote:

"...still feel that we should eat a wide variety of animal parts rather in the proportions that they exist in the animal."

If you eat in this way, you won´t meet your minimum need of fat when eating/hunting lean animals. Wild animals are usually lean, except some animals living in a cold climate.

Hanna,
I’m having trouble understanding the point of your posts.  The fat content of animals in Africa, or the fact that some modern Hunter Gatherer group eats nuts and plants, has nothing whatever to do with me and the lifestyle choices I’ve made.

If you are challenging what I’m doing, and want me to respond to the contrary opinions of others, I have no interest in doing so.  I don’t care if Wikipedia or the guru’s on other websites see things differently than I do.  That is their prerogative and I have no interest in either defending my point of view or criticizing theirs.  My journal is about what I’m doing and how well it is working for me. I’m driven by real results, not untested theories, and I have 5 years of lab tests to back me up.

If you have a specific question or comment about my personal experiences as related in my journal, feel free to post them and I’ll do my best to respond.  However, if you wish to discuss other subjects, they belong in another thread.

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1201 on: October 15, 2010, 03:34:21 pm »
So basically I wanted to thank you for expressing your thought and opinions in that journal! Thanks for reminding me that when I feel really good all the time (like on ZC) then I should probably simply go on doing what I do and stop obsessing over details...
Nicole

You are quite welcome.  Our modern world is so overloaded with information that sometimes it helps to have someone focus our attention on what's truly important.

Lex

Offline Nicole_German

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1202 on: October 15, 2010, 09:44:00 pm »
You are quite welcome.  Our modern world is so overloaded with information that sometimes it helps to have someone focus our attention on what's truly important.

Lex
True! I was so busy trying to figure out what % of fat I need to eat at some point during my journey becuase there was lots of talk about that on DCF and ZIOH (and also here) - I totally forgot that I have been feeling well, without knowing what % of fat I actually eat...So now your last posts have reminded me, to simply listen to my body again and let my mind be occupied with other things than food -and have a more joyful life again! ;)
Nicole

Offline Hanna

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1203 on: October 18, 2010, 04:01:11 am »

If you are challenging what I’m doing,

No, of course not. Your nutritional experiment is interesting and the results seem to be amazing. I just wondered at this statement you made above:

Quote
and all the research that I’ve been able to find seems to point to this being our paleo ancestor’s primary dietary protocol for several hundreds of thousands of years

This made me curious!

Offline KD

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1204 on: October 18, 2010, 09:25:46 pm »
Someone lent me their netflix acct, and I just randomly stumbled upon a BBC series on this very subject

http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Walking-with-Cavemen/60027006?strackid=1d0a36daa26780e1_7_srl&strkid=906376710_7_0&trkid=438381

[it is free on the watch now for those with an account.]

its a bit hard to watch at first, the special effects and costumes are bit of a mixed bag. The re-enactments being a bit Planet Of The Apes, but with some pretty cool traditional stop animations, and some neat renderings of prehistoric animals. Anyway it sort of surprised me over time with its information and charm.

It presents the argument that the first species that even remotely resembled humans came up in the African plains, period. Prior to the shifting the planet, and the creation of the Himalaya (cool animation) and so forth Africa was indeed tropical but there was no species apparently that had any human characteristics close enough to be considered according to this documentary. On the plain among the species already far removed were a variety of competing ape-man like creatures, some indeed eating almost entirely vegetation, and others that ate some meat and mostly meat. It discusses the corresponding differences in anatomy and stomach structure ( I have no idea how they know this stuff but whatever). It depicts some very sloth-like humanoids eating bamboo (remember it is the plains), and a variety of not-so-sharp gatherers (there is a great honeycomb scene here), then shifts to discussions of the species that would actually become our ancestors while the others died out.

apparently, it sees two defining traits of how we became more human. The first was the increase in brain size from mild scavenging of meat, as has been discussed elsewhere. What came of that was then an awareness that despite our natural lack of prowess or talent for hunting (pointed out by vegetarian and vegan amateur theorists) AS apes (no claws etc...) our increasing intelligence alone allowed us to do things like charge lions as a group of flailing screaming crazies so that it would give up its carcass. Also we became intelligent enough to look up and follow vultures to fallen prey, being of the first to understand these things intellectually and not just on instinct. The second development after that was of course how Lex points out, that the variety of things to be scavenged - like bone marrow - provided an excellent evolutionary feed-back loop for creating tools to do so, which then became tools for hunting.

four stars.


Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1205 on: October 18, 2010, 09:53:59 pm »
Actually, even chimps have been shown to be excellent hunters - they hunt monkeys in groups for example. And the out of africa hypothesis is just creationist hogwash, anyway. Evidence re intermixture with neanderthals  is already damning as it is.
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Offline KD

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1206 on: October 18, 2010, 10:11:32 pm »
Actually, even chimps have been shown to be excellent hunters - they hunt monkeys in groups for example. And the out of africa hypothesis is just creationist hogwash, anyway. Evidence re intermixture with neanderthals  is already damning as it is.

yeah, i'm aware of that. I think I posted a video on chimps hunting awhile back. I was just setting the stage for the critics, as obviously our innate hunting abilities are part of who we are, albeit less apparent than in lions and other such animals. I think maybe you should think about viewing the program, as the time periods given are in the millions of years. Since I was not there, I cannot confirm its accuracy, but I believe that whether these concepts are true or false they were illustrated quite well.  I've never seen such coverage particularly in a mainstream context, so its far from hogwash that many others believe at least.

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1207 on: October 18, 2010, 10:34:11 pm »
Lex, I'm experimenting with the primal diet now, so my diet is mainly meat and milk with a tablespoon of honey per day.

And so far I feel really great, but am constipated as hell since I've cut out fruit.

I can feel there is plenty of stuff down there, but it's not moving out. Mainly because there's no 'pushing agent', i.e. like fruit.

Did you ever experience this? Do you think the constipation is a transitional thing and will eventually go away?

thanks
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1208 on: October 19, 2010, 12:03:47 am »
It discusses the corresponding differences in anatomy and stomach structure ( I have no idea how they know this stuff but whatever).   

And therein lays the rub.  No one knows.  Most of this stuff is just a guess – some of it rather uneducated.  As such, the best we can do is research and evaluate the evidence for ourselves and make up our own minds as to what to believe and how best to live our lives.

My own belief is that we ate meat and fat as much as possible and resorted to other foods when meat was scarce.  Since we have a sweet tooth, and eating carbs causes huge insulin spikes and a resulting rapid weight gain, I believe that we ate whatever fruits were available in the late summer/early fall and the added body fat prepared us for the lean winter months.  Over the winter we would use this extra body fat and come spring we would have lost all the extra weight and the cycle would start over again.  The key here is that it was a cycle which we see in many other animals as well.  Carbs for us would have been limited by seasonal availability so our consumption would have naturally been limited, and the extra body fat taken care of by the next phase in the cycle.  Our problem today is that we eat carbs as our primary food all year around and then can’t understand why we get obese and have health problems.  Our modern food distribution systems have corrupted the natural seasonal cycles as well as providing an overabundance of food requiring no labor to procure it.  Grains, of course are another matter altogether.  We’d of had no way of consuming these at all.

Again, all this is pure speculation on my part, and just my person belief. It may have no relationship whatever to reality.  You get to make up your own mind.

And so far I feel really great, but am constipated as hell since I've cut out fruit. I can feel there is plenty of stuff down there, but it's not moving out. Mainly because there's no 'pushing agent', i.e. like fruit.  Did you ever experience this? Do you think the constipation is a transitional thing and will eventually go away? 

I did have a bit of constipation for the first several months but it slowly got better and then finally went away.  I handled the problem initially by using one of those squeeze type enema  syringes.  http://www.enemasupply.com/faulrecsyr8o.html   I’d use it when it just seemed nothing else would get things moving.  I found that only one squeeze was usually necessary.  This is not a full enema where you use a quart of water or more.  The syringe just adds about 6oz of water which seemed to be plenty to do the trick.  It did two things.  It provided an immediate expansion of the lower colon which triggered a bowel movement, and it loosened up anything that was hard and causing a blockage.

Over time my colon adapted to the smaller volume of fecal material.  I also started including more fat in my diet.  The additional fat kept things loose and pasty so that they could pass easily.  If you try to eat a low fiber diet with too little fat you’ll find that your stools will become hard and difficult to pass – especially if you are in the transition states and your intestinal bacteria have not changed – long before excess protein becomes a problem.

Part of the cause of this issue is that the intestinal flora must change completely and this takes time.  I’ve posted details of this elsewhere in my journal and won’t repeat it here.

Lex


Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1209 on: October 19, 2010, 01:07:28 am »
And therein lays the rub.  No one knows.  Most of this stuff is just a guess – some of it rather uneducated.  As such, the best we can do is research and evaluate the evidence for ourselves and make up our own minds as to what to believe and how best to live our lives.

My own belief is that we ate meat and fat as much as possible and resorted to other foods when meat was scarce.  Since we have a sweet tooth, and eating carbs causes huge insulin spikes and a resulting rapid weight gain, I believe that we ate whatever fruits were available in the late summer/early fall and the added body fat prepared us for the lean winter months.  Over the winter we would use this extra body fat and come spring we would have lost all the extra weight and the cycle would start over again.  The key here is that it was a cycle which we see in many other animals as well.  Carbs for us would have been limited by seasonal availability so our consumption would have naturally been limited, and the extra body fat taken care of by the next phase in the cycle.  Our problem today is that we eat carbs as our primary food all year around and then can’t understand why we get obese and have health problems.  Our modern food distribution systems have corrupted the natural seasonal cycles as well as providing an overabundance of food requiring no labor to procure it.  Grains, of course are another matter altogether.  We’d of had no way of consuming these at all.

Again, all this is pure speculation on my part, and just my person belief. It may have no relationship whatever to reality.  You get to make up your own mind.

I did have a bit of constipation for the first several months but it slowly got better and then finally went away.  I handled the problem initially by using one of those squeeze type enema  syringes.  http://www.enemasupply.com/faulrecsyr8o.html   I’d use it when it just seemed nothing else would get things moving.  I found that only one squeeze was usually necessary.  This is not a full enema where you use a quart of water or more.  The syringe just adds about 6oz of water which seemed to be plenty to do the trick.  It did two things.  It provided an immediate expansion of the lower colon which triggered a bowel movement, and it loosened up anything that was hard and causing a blockage.

Over time my colon adapted to the smaller volume of fecal material.  I also started including more fat in my diet.  The additional fat kept things loose and pasty so that they could pass easily.  If you try to eat a low fiber diet with too little fat you’ll find that your stools will become hard and difficult to pass – especially if you are in the transition states and your intestinal bacteria have not changed – long before excess protein becomes a problem.

Part of the cause of this issue is that the intestinal flora must change completely and this takes time.  I’ve posted details of this elsewhere in my journal and won’t repeat it here.

Lex



I understand, thanks very much.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 02:29:19 am by ForTheHunt »
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline Hanna

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1210 on: October 19, 2010, 02:14:04 am »
 :) Thanks KD for the summary.

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1211 on: October 19, 2010, 02:29:50 am »
One more thing Lex, could you share with me your experience with raw milk?

I'm drinking a lot of raw milk these days and it's going down quite nicely. But raw milk has a LOT of opposition on these boards so it has me slightly worried that I might wake up one day with problems.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline ezekiel

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1212 on: October 19, 2010, 03:36:29 am »
Wild animals are usually lean, except some animals living in a cold climate.

Fat animals in warm climates include
Hippo, Elephant, I am sure wild boar can be fatty, bears (India)

Grazing animals: zebra, water buffalo, etc. body fat varies with season. During certain times (rainy season I believe) of lush greens herbivores get very fat in warm climates.
Same with temperate climates like Wisconsin. During fall the animals are at their fattest from feasting all summer.


Sources of fat to seek out on animal, bone marrow, brain, suet, back fat (camel, bison etc.), muscle fat, tongue etc.

Perhaps excess fat from an animal could be stored much longer than excess flesh, and used in times when animals were lean. Who knows, even foxes bury food to eat later.


Offline Hannibal

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1213 on: October 19, 2010, 04:07:10 am »
Who knows, even foxes bury food to eat later.
Definitely. Foxes do like carrion very much. :)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1214 on: October 19, 2010, 10:17:00 am »
Hi Lex, since you've had fuller success than me, I'd like to try to experiment with coming as close to your mix as possible using grassfed ground beef and suet/lard. I also eat liver, lamb, pork and other foods, but for simplicity I'll restrict the figures to these two foods and assume the same total calories as what you eat. What would the grams of 100% grassfed beef and 100% grassfed suet come out to in order to achieve 80% of calories as fat? I misplaced my figures on how the % of calories as fat in 100% grassfed beef. Is it 60%? Thanks.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1215 on: October 19, 2010, 02:02:19 pm »
One more thing Lex, could you share with me your experience with raw milk?

I'm drinking a lot of raw milk these days and it's going down quite nicely. But raw milk has a LOT of opposition on these boards so it has me slightly worried that I might wake up one day with problems.

My experience with milk, raw or otherwise, has not been good.  I'm not lactose intollerant, but as a teenager I had cystic acne and it continued well into my late 20's.  The dermatologists insisted that diet had nothing whatever to do with it, and I was on antibotics for years trying to control it.  Then someone suggested that I quit consuming dairy, and within a few weeks the acne cleared up and never returned.  Then I noticed other improvements as well.  I had always suffered from a post nasel drip and that went away, and my constant sinus congestion disappeared as well.  The first thing I suggest to people having health problems of any kind is to quit consuming dairy products.  No other mamal consistently consumes milk after it is weaned.  Why would we expect humans be different?

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1216 on: October 19, 2010, 02:11:17 pm »
Hi Lex, since you've had fuller success than me, I'd like to try to experiment with coming as close to your mix as possible using grassfed ground beef and suet/lard. I also eat liver, lamb, pork and other foods, but for simplicity I'll restrict the figures to these two foods and assume the same total calories as what you eat. What would the grams of 100% grassfed beef and 100% grassfed suet come out to in order to achieve 80% of calories as fat? I misplaced my figures on how the % of calories as fat in 100% grassfed beef. Is it 60%? Thanks.

Depending on the type of fat the grams of pure fat in raw fat can vary anywhere from 60% at the low end to 85% at the high end.  I usually split the difference and just figure 70%-75%.  100 grams of raw fat would have around 70 - 75 grams of fat with the rest water and connective tissue.

I tend to think much of my success is from the pet food I mix into the ground meat.  The pet food contains a wide variety of organ meats as well as muscle cuts that can't be sold.  I'd guess that the total mixed organ content of my daily meal is only around 10-12% but it seems to be enough, and that is the only thing that I consistently do that is differnet than most other people.

Lex

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1217 on: October 19, 2010, 03:02:23 pm »
 100 grams of raw fat would have around 70 - 75 grams of fat with the rest water and connective tissue.
You mean suet?
It has 94% of fat - http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3478/2 (beef one)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1218 on: October 19, 2010, 08:39:15 pm »
My experience with milk, raw or otherwise, has not been good.  I'm not lactose intollerant, but as a teenager I had cystic acne and it continued well into my late 20's.  The dermatologists insisted that diet had nothing whatever to do with it, and I was on antibotics for years trying to control it.  Then someone suggested that I quit consuming dairy, and within a few weeks the acne cleared up and never returned.  Then I noticed other improvements as well.  I had always suffered from a post nasel drip and that went away, and my constant sinus congestion disappeared as well.  The first thing I suggest to people having health problems of any kind is to quit consuming dairy products.  No other mamal consistently consumes milk after it is weaned.  Why would we expect humans be different?

Lex

Thanks appreciate your input.

I was never a heavy consumer of dairy as a kid and as a teenager I stopped all together. So it was definitely not the cause of my problems.

But well, evolution. Man evolved to speak and think multidimensionally, unlike other mammals, aswell as evolved to eat meat, so I wouldn't be shocked that my lineage, evolved to eat dairy. Seeing as it was a bunch of herders.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1219 on: October 20, 2010, 11:36:37 am »
You mean suet?
It has 94% of fat - http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3478/2 (beef one)

My numbers come from actual measurements.  I've never achieved a yeild of 94% fat from suet.  85% is about the max I've ever gotten.  In the real world there is connective tissue and a good bit of water in the fat.  Often in the world of nutritional analysis the water content is disregarded as it contributes no calories.  However, a yeild of 94% fat vs connective tissue and protein sounds about right based on my measurements.

Lex
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 11:41:53 am by lex_rooker »

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1220 on: October 20, 2010, 11:54:54 am »
Man evolved to speak and think multidimensionally, unlike other mammals, aswell as evolved to eat meat, so I wouldn't be shocked that my lineage, evolved to eat dairy. Seeing as it was a bunch of herders.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the people of your lineage who were highly allergic to milk might have been selected out of your cultural population through a failure to thrive if milk became a significant food for them as they transitioned into the neolithic era.  They would not have "evolved" to eat dairy as there is not nearly enough time for such a major evolutionary step to have taken place. In other words, their basic DNA would not have changed.

I'm in a similar condition as you.  My culture consumed dairy and we tollerated it well enough to continue to procreate new generations, however, my grandfather, father, and I all suffered excess mucus and acne.  Tollerance of a food does not indicate that it should be a major part of your diet.  We tollerate modern processed foods to the point that we can still procreate, however, as we age we pay a high price for eating these inappropriate foods.

Lex
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 12:19:03 pm by lex_rooker »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1221 on: October 20, 2010, 05:31:59 pm »
That is the point. As long as one is able to grow old enough to father children, despite a dairy allergy,  one can pass on the inability to handle dairy continuously, especially after the Neolithic when natural selection became worthless in effect.

I do have deep suspicions re some peoples' assertions that because they come from some traditional dairy-eating population that they too must be adapted. Part of my ancestry is Scandinavian, for example, yet I and many of my relatives have varying degrees of allery towards dairy.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1222 on: October 25, 2010, 12:00:13 pm »
OK, so here's your numbers, as I understand them, Lex:

2500 total calories / day
80% calories as fat = 2000 cals (includes a small amount of carbs from liver)
20% calories as protein = 500 cals

Meat + organs mix 500 g, with organs representing around 12% of the mix by mass
Suet 175 g

Do you know what that would translate into in grams in terms of a mix of GF beef and suet?:

100% grassfed beef ? g
Suet ? g

Thanks
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1223 on: October 26, 2010, 10:33:07 am »
My last batch of suet was a bit overly damp and some of it didn't dry quite well enough, so I rendered it into tallow. I also rendered the local pastured marrow fat because it also wasn't great quality--frozen and not 100% grassfed. When I started eating the tallow I was quickly reminded of one of the top reasons I stopped eating tallow--it gives me unpleasant burps and the higher the temp I render the tallow at, the more burps I get. I rarely burp unless I consume tallow or other heated fats like lard, or coffee or acidic fruits.

Danny Roddy also mentioned that he was burping a lot when he was eating lots of pemmican. Do you get any burping from pemmican, Lex?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1224 on: October 27, 2010, 12:45:47 am »
Danny Roddy also mentioned that he was burping a lot when he was eating lots of pemmican. Do you get any burping from pemmican, Lex?

I don't eat much pemmican but can't remember that I've had any such problem when eating pemmican for a week or so during a vacation.

Do you know what that would translate into in grams in terms of a mix of GF beef and suet?:

100% grassfed beef ? g
Suet ? g 

I have a commercial fat analyzer for testing the fat content of ground meats.  I use this to find out exactly how much fat is in my daily meals when I’m doing an experiment.  When not doing an experiment, I just add fat until I find the meal is satisfying and call it good.  Once in a while I’ll pull out the analyzer and check to see what a meal actually measures, but for the most part I just let my body tell my what it wants.

Lex

 

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