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Offline popeye

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popeye's journal
« on: November 03, 2009, 03:28:53 pm »
This is my journal, where I'll be logging my progress.  To provide context I'm dealing mainly with chronic fatigue syndrome, and for me the most significant symptom is neurological.  My short term memory comes and goes and concentrating on anything is quite a chore.  The best way to describe it is I feel as if there are cobwebs or cotton in my brain at all times.  There are some other cognitive effects--anxiety and depression, most notably.  Here is a fairly complete list of my symptoms:

* Difficulty concentrating
* Anxiety and depression
* Irritated bowels, alternation between constipation and diarrhea
* Pressure/throbbing sensation between ears, very pronounced pulse (although I checked my blood pressure and it was normal)
* Poor quality of sleep (although this has gotten significantly better)
* A slight hearing difficulty
* Warm flashes/burning sensation in parts of the body, mainly around the knees and legs
* Hands and feet often become cold
* Unusual amount of sweating in warm weather

As far as supplements go, I'm currently taking Dr. Ron's adrenal cortex (thanks TylerDurden), as well as a magnesium-potassium aspartate that has been shown to boost energy in some individuals.  I'm almost out of it, though.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 05:42:15 pm »
Well, it does seem as though you have much of the symptoms I had prerawpalaeodiet, the excessive sweating in warm weather, the CFS etc.

I would strongly suggets you drop raw dairy should you still be consuming it. It's really bad for those with adrenal burnout issues.

1 tip:- I would suggest a couple of other  supplements as well:- for improving concentration Dr Mercola's Krill oil for the omega-3s and "high-meat/aged raw meat" would be very useful.
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Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 05:53:52 pm »
Well, it does seem as though you have much of the symptoms I had prerawpalaeodiet, the excessive sweating in warm weather, the CFS etc.

I would strongly suggets you drop raw dairy should you still be consuming it. It's really bad for those with adrenal burnout issues.

1 tip:- I would suggest a couple of other  supplements as well:- for improving concentration Dr Mercola's Krill oil for the omega-3s and "high-meat/aged raw meat" would be very useful.

Yes, I agree.  I haven't eaten any dairy including butter for a few weeks.  I seem to be doing better.  A lot of people say dairy is fine to eat but I'm all about empiricism here--if I keep getting better I'll know it wasn't doing me any good.  If you have any other suggestions about eating more raw meat I'd be happy to hear it.  I haven't been very hungry lately and really have to spice my food up and get it hot to consume it in great quantity.  Thing is, I'm wondering if I should just stop eating and resume eating when I get genuinely hungry, even if I only eat a couple of times a week.  I went for a few days without eating at all and my depression lifted significantly.  I tested my body fat % today and it's at 15.4%.  At least if I don't each much I can still burn a lot of my stored fat and certainly won't starve.  Thanks for the suggestions, by the way.  I'll look into high meat.  I hear it lifts the spirits significantly.  This makes sense to me given a recent article I saw about how certain bacteria release chemicals that release endorphins in the brain--kinda of like alcohol but without a hangover, I guess.  Since I'm living by myself I can make it and eat it without catching hell from people telling me I'm killing myself!

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2009, 07:14:40 pm »
I have some bloodwork I'd like to share with you all.  Recently I had a series of tests which included a CBC, a metabolic panel, urinalysis and lipid panel.  The results are attached.  I was concerned I may have contracted a virus and/or had some kind of chronic immune condition.  Since the CBC appeared normal I now doubt this was the case.  The reason I suspected this is all the news about chronic fatigue maybe having something to do with a retrovirus called XMRV.  Just google that term with chronic fatigue and you'll see what I mean.

Everything was normal which pleased me with the exception of a few things: I was producing ketones, which to me isn't a big deal since I eat a very low carb diet and that's just par for the course; I had calcium oxalate in my urine; and my cholesterol was elevated.  I was not at all surprised at the cholesterol and my interpretation of the number is that it is a sign my body is regenerating itself and nothing more.  I'm not very confident in the medical establishment's ideas about cholesterol re health and disease.  I'm also not so sure that "0-99" is a healthy range for LDL cholesterol.  I would be very concerned if the test had come back and I had zero LDL in my blood!  Any differing opinions are welcome, however.  I was a little surprised at the calcium oxalate, and I'm not sure what to make of it.  I've never had a kidney stone, but it made me consider not eating a lot of vegetables or nuts, which contain a lot of oxalate.  From what I have read it's not generally a cause for concern, however.  Under certain conditions like inflamed bowels (which I do have), oxalate can be hyper-absorbed through the gut.  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12474641) Maybe this is what is going on in that regard.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:27:31 pm by popeye »

Offline needs_and_wants

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 08:06:30 pm »
Those symptoms sound like they could be candida related aswell. It might be worth looking into. Theres some info here..
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php
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Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 12:17:26 am »
Those symptoms sound like they could be candida related aswell. It might be worth looking into. Theres some info here..
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php

Thanks.  I've considered that candida overgrowth could be contributing.  I took a lot of antifungal drugs (nystatin mainly) after reading a book about it.  Some symptoms may have improved a bit, but now I'm out of nystatin.  I do keep it in mind and try not to eat a lot of sugar or foods that yeasts are known to grow on.

Offline ys

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 01:37:15 am »
Your cholesterol numbers are great, do not do anything to change them.

I also have CF, poor sleep, and cold hands time to time.

What have you done to improve sleep lately?

I don't have depression and anxiety during the day, but suspect all sorts of worrying comes out subconsciously during sleep.

I just started listening Spa channel on XM radio to relax before sleep.  I'll report if it helps.

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 01:47:23 am »
Raw zero carb worked for me to fix all the problems you list, including the apparent candida that I didn't know I had.
The aspartate form of Mg and K supplements is the wrong kind - this after extensive experimentation by those with heart rhythm disturbances, but you won't need any supplements if you eat raw fat meat and no anti-nutrients (veg.).
Except for the krill oil - we suspect omega 3 deficiency in modern meat.

I have never dared fast for more than 2 days, as I thought that I must have a severe deficiency of something, and could not see how fasting could do much for that. So intermittent fasting, and I eat once a day. This gives the body time to detoxify gently, and seems to be successful, especially for mood.
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Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 02:18:28 am »
Raw zero carb worked for me to fix all the problems you list, including the apparent candida that I didn't know I had.
The aspartate form of Mg and K supplements is the wrong kind - this after extensive experimentation by those with heart rhythm disturbances, but you won't need any supplements if you eat raw fat meat and no anti-nutrients (veg.).
Except for the krill oil - we suspect omega 3 deficiency in modern meat.

I have never dared fast for more than 2 days, as I thought that I must have a severe deficiency of something, and could not see how fasting could do much for that. So intermittent fasting, and I eat once a day. This gives the body time to detoxify gently, and seems to be successful, especially for mood.
Life is a lot brighter.

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I eat a 100% grassfed meat diet thanks to Slankers (which has been just wonderful to me), but the krill oil sounds like a great idea for someone who was stuck with grain-fed meat.  Are you saying modern meat in general is suspect, or just grainfed meat?

I am delighted to hear you reversed your problems eating that way.  Was getting used to eating a lot of raw meat difficult?  That is probably the biggest stumbling block for me as I can only eat a little raw meat before I am quite full of it.  Raw meat sometimes disgusts me, too.  This is a psychological thing after being told how dangerous it is all my life.  In our house I was always being told as a child to handle raw meat like it was radioactive.  The longest I have fasted is almost 4 days and it didn't harm me in any way, but I am skeptical as to the benefits of deliberate prolonged fasts after reading Lex's and others' experiences with it.  But eating only when hungry might be a beneficial thing for me to do, even if it means eating every other day.

A few questions if I may.  Do you/did you use high meat, and if so did it help?  What sort of strategy do you suggest I use to start really enjoying the taste of raw meat?  Do you think that eating your meat raw was key with regards to solving your problems?  Thank you.

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 02:26:54 am »
Your cholesterol numbers are great, do not do anything to change them.

I also have CF, poor sleep, and cold hands time to time.

What have you done to improve sleep lately?

I don't have depression and anxiety during the day, but suspect all sorts of worrying comes out subconsciously during sleep.

I just started listening Spa channel on XM radio to relax before sleep.  I'll report if it helps.

Other than it just improving over time due to the body working its mojo, having a routine before bed has worked for me.  I do something relaxing that I enjoy, and I try not to do anything worrisome or emotion-provoking right before bed.  As I'm going to sleep I find something positive or constructive to think or "daydream" about, which seems to accelerate falling asleep.  I think about a problem but take a detached sort of view to it.  I don't try too hard to actually solve the problem, just think about it a bit.  Often I drift to sleep thinking about it, and wake up with new insight.  Hope this helps.

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 04:41:28 am »
Started some high meat today using fresh grass fed lean beef.

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 04:43:38 am »
Here's a photo.

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 06:41:06 am »
I eat a 100% grassfed meat diet thanks to Slankers (which has been just wonderful to me), but the krill oil sounds like a great idea for someone who was stuck with grain-fed meat.  Are you saying modern meat in general is suspect, or just grainfed meat?

Slanker's is OK, from experience of members here. I take the krill oil because I live on mostly pemmican, and don't know if the EFAs survive the heating of the fat.

Quote
I am delighted to hear you reversed your problems eating that way.  Was getting used to eating a lot of raw meat difficult?  That is probably the biggest stumbling block for me as I can only eat a little raw meat before I am quite full of it.

Never got used to wet raw meat. I react exactly the same as you to it.

 
Quote
A few questions if I may.  Do you/did you use high meat, and if so did it help?  What sort of strategy do you suggest I use to start really enjoying the taste of raw meat?  Do you think that eating your meat raw was key with regards to solving your problems?  Thank you.

Never tried high meat; I don't chill easily, and that is one reason for eating it. Depression is another one, not a problem for me.

I dry & powder raw meat and make jerky; it tastes OK (would be delicious if I could get pure/grassfed fat) and my stomach loves it. Some just partly dry it in moving air, like before a fan. Twisting in the wind, to coin a phrase.     ;)

Yes, raw is the key. There are two sides to using food for problem-solving; raw is one, the other is zero carbohydrate. I think "Bear" is right when he says carbs are poison.

Offline djr_81

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 07:12:32 am »
Be careful filling the jar that full. You're going to need to air it out most likely every day to make sure you don't run out of oxygen. I've personally had the best luck when the jar is half full by height of meat, not volume.
I've got 4 jars going in my fridge at the moment, the "highest" is two months old. So far the most noticeable effect I've found is a big increase in energy (most mental but some physical as well) within an hour or two of eating the high meat. My advice is to try it out early enough in the day that you'll burn the energy off. I found out the hard way and sat up and extra 2-3 hours before I could fall asleep. ;)
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Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 07:13:35 am »
Slanker's is OK, from experience of members here. I take the krill oil because I live on mostly pemmican, and don't know if the EFAs survive the heating of the fat.

Never got used to wet raw meat. I react exactly the same as you to it.

 
Never tried high meat; I don't chill easily, and that is one reason for eating it. Depression is another one, not a problem for me.

I dry & powder raw meat and make jerky; it tastes OK (would be delicious if I could get pure/grassfed fat) and my stomach loves it. Some just partly dry it in moving air, like before a fan. Twisting in the wind, to coin a phrase.     ;)

Yes, raw is the key. There are two sides to using food for problem-solving; raw is one, the other is zero carbohydrate. I think "Bear" is right when he says carbs are poison.

Thank you.  Let me see if I understand you correctly.  You heat the fat you eat, but the lean you do not cook and instead let dry and combine it with the fat to make pemmican.

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 07:21:01 am »
Be careful filling the jar that full. You're going to need to air it out most likely every day to make sure you don't run out of oxygen. I've personally had the best luck when the jar is half full by height of meat, not volume.
I've got 4 jars going in my fridge at the moment, the "highest" is two months old. So far the most noticeable effect I've found is a big increase in energy (most mental but some physical as well) within an hour or two of eating the high meat. My advice is to try it out early enough in the day that you'll burn the energy off. I found out the hard way and sat up and extra 2-3 hours before I could fall asleep. ;)

The effect you describe sounds very desirable.  I'll let you all know in a month or so when I try it what the effects are on me.  And thanks for the heads up about air, I'll make sure to open the jar frequently.

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 07:27:35 am »
This feedback has given me something to think about.  For the next month or so I am going to eat once a day of however much red meat and fat I want, cooked as little as I care for (which is never above medium rare anyway).  This is a departure from how I was eating a month ago, which was generally 3 meals a day and included things like bread and chocolate as part of my carb intake (minimal as it was), as well as significant amounts of dairy.  I know some people here have had issues with zero carb diets, but my experience so far has been the less carbs I eat the better I feel.  We'll see.  I'll get some krill oil too and see how that works.  Thank you guys.

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 06:49:38 pm »
Let me see if I understand you correctly.  You heat the fat you eat, but the lean you do not cook and instead let dry and combine it with the fat to make pemmican.

Yes, you got it.

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2009, 11:10:38 am »
... Here is a fairly complete list of my symptoms:

* Difficulty concentrating
* Anxiety and depression
* Irritated bowels, alternation between constipation and diarrhea
* Pressure/throbbing sensation between ears, very pronounced pulse (although I checked my blood pressure and it was normal)
* Poor quality of sleep (although this has gotten significantly better)
* A slight hearing difficulty
* Warm flashes/burning sensation in parts of the body, mainly around the knees and legs
* Hands and feet often become cold
* Unusual amount of sweating in warm weather

As far as supplements go, I'm currently taking Dr. Ron's adrenal cortex (thanks TylerDurden), as well as a magnesium-potassium aspartate that has been shown to boost energy in some individuals.  I'm almost out of it, though.
I had all those same symptoms on cooked carbs except hearing difficulty and excess sweating (although my feet used to sweat quite a bit when warm) and my intermittent sensations were more often numbness in the arms or buttocks rather than warm flashes (but sometimes I would suddenly feel warm or cold too and sometimes both at the same time, which I can't really explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it). All have improved on a raw carnivore diet.

Another coincidence is I found magnesium and potassium supplements to be helpful for me, but raw red meat worked even better. As long as I eat plenty of raw red meat every day my potassium deficiency cramps remain in remission. If I go too long without raw red meat, or if I cheat and eat significant carbs, they return.

In your labwork your cloudy urine and oxalate crystals are the only concerning things I see. Lex and I produce ketones with no noticeable side effects resulting. On grains and carbs I used to be prone to chronic kidney stones and urinary tract infections. My urine cleared up and my oxalate crystals went away when I eliminated gluten and went Paleo, so I'm hoping going RPD has the same effect for you, but your mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 11:21:52 am by PaleoPhil »
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Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2009, 05:29:11 pm »
Wow, I don't know if this is a coincidence or what, but I got the thyroid extract and have been taking it for a couple of days along with adrenal cortex and my energy and concentration are significantly better.  I had a thyroid and adrenal blood panel right before I started taking either, and when I get it I will post.  If this is due to hypothyroidism I would expect to see some kind of abnormal reading.

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2009, 05:45:42 pm »
Here are some interesting studies that may support this idea:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17276605?dopt=AbstractPlus
Enhanced feedback sensitivity to prednisolone in chronic fatigue syndrome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17596739?dopt=Abstract
evidence for a hypofunction of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis in a proportion of the patients with chronic fatigue syndrome

Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2009, 06:02:44 pm »
Here are some studies that might relate to why eating a very low carb /zero carb diet is good for this condition:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1867088/

Mitochondrial Biogenesis in the Anticonvulsant Mechanism of the Ketogenic Diet
These data show that a calorie-restricted KD enhances brain metabolism. We propose an anticonvulsant mechanism of the KD involving mitochondrial biogenesis leading to enhanced alternative energy stores.

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0304416509000026
The effects of a ketogenic diet on ATP concentrations and the number of hippocampal mitochondria in Aldh5a1?/? mice

http://www.mitochondrial.net/showabstract.php?pmid=19049599
"We found a coordinated up-regulation of transcripts encoding energy metabolism enzymes and a dramatic 46% increase in the density of mitochondria observed in neuronal processes."

http://www.mitochondrial.net/showabstract.php?pmid=15048898
The ketogenic diet increases mitochondrial uncoupling protein levels and activity.

This above is interesting considering one measure of CFS is a certain level of mitochondrial dysfunction:

http://www.ijcem.com/812001A.html
With the consent of each of 71 patients and 53 normal, healthy controls the 5 factors have been
collated and compared with the Bell Ability Scale. The individual numerical factors show that patients have different combinations of
biochemical lesions. When the factors are combined, a remarkable correlation is observed between the degree of mitochondrial
dysfunction and the severity of illness (P<0.001).


So, to me it would appear that two important areas of exploration for CFS/ME would be (1) enhancing the function of the HPA axis and thyroid gland through eating glands and/or finding ways to stimulate their activity and (2) eating a very high fat, low carb diet so as to increase the density and function of the mitochondria

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2009, 06:04:39 pm »
The trouble is that craig, a ZCer, did once suggest that adrenal-related issues might become a problem on ZC, as ZC might over-stress the glands.
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Offline popeye

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2009, 06:17:46 pm »
The trouble is that craig, a ZCer, did once suggest that adrenal-related issues might become a problem on ZC, as ZC might over-stress the glands.

I wonder what the threshold for carbohydrate intake is, that is high enough to avoid the problems associated with a totally zero carb diet, while not being so high that you lose the benefits of a low carb diet.  From what I've read, having 10-15% of calories from carbs (maybe 60-80 grams a day) is what people who write about low carb diets typically suggest.  Maybe more or less depending on the individual.  Anything under 100 grams is still a pretty low carb diet.

Edit: speaking of which, I know that you have had trouble with ZC yourself.  How many grams of CHO do you reckon you consume per day, on average?  Thanks.

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Re: popeye's journal
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2009, 07:55:42 pm »
I wonder what the threshold for carbohydrate intake is, that is high enough to avoid the problems associated with a totally zero carb diet, while not being so high that you lose the benefits of a low carb diet.  From what I've read, having 10-15% of calories from carbs (maybe 60-80 grams a day) is what people who write about low carb diets typically suggest.  Maybe more or less depending on the individual.  Anything under 100 grams is still a pretty low carb diet.

Edit: speaking of which, I know that you have had trouble with ZC yourself.  How many grams of CHO do you reckon you consume per day, on average?  Thanks.

Judging from accounts online, it seems likely that palaeo peoples had up to 25% of carbs in their diet(not sure if this was by calorie or by actual percentage).

In my own case, I can go for days without carbs and then, in 1 sole day, eat as much as a kilo of carbs. It's all arbitrary, really, and I don't rigidly count the details as I don't do badly on raw carbs as long as I (usually) have 1 large, main raw-meat-meal a day. There have been times when I went 100% raw fruitarian for 2-3 weeks at a time, due to total lack of supplies of raw grassfed/organic meats for various reasons, and that was not a problem , but I get the impression , from experience,that longer periods would be more of a problem.I should add that I simply cannot face raw, grainfed meats, these days(and, similiarly loathe cooked meats, however grassfed) - I've very rarely accepted some raw, partially-raw grainfed meats, in the past and have found them so tasteless that I'd much rather have raw, non-organic fruit, instead.
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