Author Topic: Fasting and zero carb diet  (Read 20090 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2010, 11:30:58 am »
OK, inferences then.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2010, 06:18:52 pm »

Tyler, why do you continue to repeat the favorite attack mantra of our critics? Quoting it repeatedly serves to undermine this forum more than just about anything anyone could do (talking about breastfeeding beyond a year or two or Weston Price doesn't come close and I've never seen anyone outside of you criticize Paleo dieters for those reasons) besides advocating tyranny or something else really extreme. This is truly bizarre. I've never seen a diet forum where one of it's leaders repeatedly quoted the favorite criticism used by its opponents.

I have a deep distrust of idealism, that's why. While I'm happy to accept that raw palaeolithic diets are healthy given mine and others' experiences, I also am prepared to accept that life in Palaeo times was not a paradise or necessarily even 100% ideal. One forgets that for much of the paleolithic era, hominids were still strongly subject to natural selection and related pressures. Stating that palaeo tribespeople were far more likely to die from simple injuries such as a broken leg is a fact, since their level of medical technology was somewhat lower than ours. Also, I fear that if there is too much of a rejection of modern technology because of RPD idealism, I think there might be consequences. I gave a recent example where an RPDer might go in for raw honey etc. to cure a rabies-infected bite instead of getting an anti-rabies injection.

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From that it looks like you were not claiming that food scarcity was the prime reason behind "nasty, brutish and short." Instead, you talked about high infant mortality and broken legs. Do you think food scarcity or diet were substantial factors in "nasty, brutish and short"? Do they indicate, like our critics suggest, that we should instead eat a neolithic diet?
I don't think diet was negative, but food-scarcity seems highly likely. The notion among some wide-eyed palaeo idealists on paleofood was that palaeo HGs lived in a land of plenty with never having to do much re obtaining food, and that doesn't fit in with my experience of wild animals and their struggles for survival. And the only reason aneolithic diet can be justified nowadays is the vast population increase. I'm sure that with careful management of domesticated animals etc. that c. 3 billion could be sustainably fed on a healthy rawpalaeodiet.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 06:36:39 pm by TylerDurden »
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William

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2010, 11:14:31 pm »
I have a deep distrust of idealism, that's why.

The bones of paleoman are ideal. That's why try to eat like them.

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One forgets that for much of the paleolithic era, hominids were still strongly subject to natural selection and related pressures.

That's evolution. The premise of this diet is the we did not evolve during the paleolithic. No need.

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Stating that palaeo tribespeople were far more likely to die from simple injuries such as a broken leg is a fact, since their level of medical technology was somewhat lower than ours.

It is a fiction.  You are making stuff up out of nothing to support the stupid caveman obsession.


 
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Also, I fear that if there is too much of a rejection of modern technology because of RPD idealism, I think there might be consequences. I gave a recent example where an RPDer might go in for raw honey etc. to cure a rabies-infected bite instead of getting an anti-rabies injection.

Fear mongering.
We reject modern medical technology because of actual personal in-your-face experience. Smarten up, TD, this is not idealism.

The bats presently hibernating in my attic all have rabies, according to  the government of Quebec, but it does not kill them, possibly because they eat raw zero carb (flying insects).
We don't know what would happen to a person who has been eating raw zero carb and gets rabies, but such people don't seem to get other diseases.


 
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I don't think diet was negative, but food-scarcity seems highly likely. The notion among some wide-eyed palaeo idealists on paleofood was that palaeo HGs lived in a land of plenty with never having to do much re obtaining food, and that doesn't fit in with my experience of wild animals and their struggles for survival.

Your experience is neolithic.
You are making the same mistake as those historians who foolishly impose their own modern cultural experience on ancient peoples.



Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2010, 11:43:07 pm »
Rubbish, of course. And besides if you do believe that paleo bones were "ideal" then you should also follow other palaeo "ideals" such as cannibalism/human sacrifice etc., if you wish to remain consistent. And given our evolution from homo erectus to homo sapiens during palaeo times re plentiful scientiic evidence, your claims re evolution are just absurdly anti-palaeo.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

William

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2010, 12:35:50 am »
Where do you get this stuff about paleo  "cannibalism/human sacrifice" etc.?
I've never seen it, or read any one else quote it. Do you have a (secret) source?

And evolution during paleo times?
For such a startling claim, you need to quote a source or lose all credibility.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2010, 02:55:45 am »
William, I'm not sure I understand your whole belief that we never evolved during the paleolithic era. When was the last time you think we stopped evolving? Our gene expression has surely changed quite a bit in the last 150k years since I don't anything like an Asian or African.


Maybe you could leave out bowls of honey or sugar or other sweets in your attic and see if the bats die??

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2010, 04:12:08 am »
Where do you get this stuff about paleo  "cannibalism/human sacrifice" etc.?
I've never seen it, or read any one else quote it. Do you have a (secret) source?

And evolution during paleo times?
For such a startling claim, you need to quote a source or lose all credibility.
None so blind as they who will not see - you know damn well that I've previously posted endless sources re the above subjects. For other members, here are 2 articles(there are many many others on the web)) detailing cannibalism in the Palaeolithic era and details about evolution :-

http://archaeology.about.com/od/caterms/qt/cannibalism.htm

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Human%20Nature%20S%201999/neanderthal_cannibalism_at_moula.htm

http://www.stonepages.com/news/archives/002399.html

As for human evolution, there is ample evidence from the fossil record showing evolution of hominids from homo erectus all the way to cro-magnon man. There are too many bones of neanderthals etc. to beable to convincingly  refute it .
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Ninacma

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2011, 11:27:18 pm »
When I asked advice of the master faster, Dr. Bernarr (healself.org),,he asked what I normally eat - I said pemmican, and he said nothing, so I guess that pemmican is good for that purpose as well.

Probably anything raw that supplies all nutrients, which is raw fat meat. Not so sure of honey, as there is a danger of high blood sugar there.

This Dr Bernarr seems like a real loon. Did you see his advice for Down's Syndrome?

However, I am quite interested in the same questions as you are, as I am considering doing the same thing myself.

As for our forefathers living shorter, that's quite obvious why. Human beings have always been extremely violent - which is why we eliminated all of our hominid competitors. The "Peaceful Savage" myth is just that, a myth. Tribal folks have much higher rates of murder than we do. Also, living from hand to mouth is a very risky strategy. One mistake, and you're out. Not to mention hospitals. How many of us wouldn't be already dead if we didn't have hospitals? I think that moving away from hunting gathering was the very foundation for civilization, but disastrous for our health. That's just the way it is.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:39:00 pm by Ninacma »

Offline Blueknight

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Re: Fasting and zero carb diet
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2011, 10:13:46 pm »
hello, I have experience with smalls fastings over all, thouth I also did a six days fasting once. It's very interesting how the body adapt to fasting in short times and feel full energy and in a long term (more than three days) feel so calm, in peace, but what I surprised was that my mind worked perfectly, in heavy ketosis. I think the best manner to break fasting is eating a medium heavy meal with a lot of protein but "digestion-friendly", low-average fat, zero carbs meal.

Excuse me if I make mistakes because English isn't my fist language.

 

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