Author Topic: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus  (Read 12291 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« on: January 24, 2010, 03:26:43 am »
Bee's have an insulin like substance, which converts the carbo hydrates & sugars into enzymes, helping digest fats & proteins, fruits dont have that

enzymes arent alive - no nucleus, no respiratory system


Anyone know what the insulin like substance is? he mentined inuline ...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 03:47:03 am by roony »

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 05:44:17 am »
I'll move this to the primal diet forum as it's more related to that subject. As for the above it's interesting but I've never read more data on this claim.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,338
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 06:37:20 am »
is it possible you have misinterpreted something??  there is nothing that turns a carbohydrate into a protein! possibly he was saying that honey contains enzymes that help in digestion of nutrients?

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,828
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 07:16:16 am »
Not just aajonus, but many hunter gatherer tribes think honey is good. 

A favourite drink we have at home is cold water + calamansi / lemon + raw honey

Cool  8)
Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 08:45:57 am »
Bee's have an insulin like substance, which converts the carbo hydrates & sugars into enzymes, helping digest fats & proteins, fruits dont have that

enzymes arent alive - no nucleus, no respiratory system


Anyone know what the insulin like substance is? he mentined inuline ...
I would be curious to know what this supposed bee-produced substance is myself. I've heard of inulin (soluble fiber), but not "inuline."
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2010, 12:33:23 am »
I would be curious to know what this supposed bee-produced substance is myself. I've heard of inulin (soluble fiber), but not "inuline."

It could well be inulin, but i think he was referring to insulin friendly vegetables like cucumbers or roots, with inulin

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 12:35:35 am »
is it possible you have misinterpreted something??  there is nothing that turns a carbohydrate into a protein! possibly he was saying that honey contains enzymes that help in digestion of nutrients?

Enzymes arent proteins? He simply stated enzymes arent alive ... "which converts the carbo hydrates & sugars into enzymes" which then help digest fats & proteins, when digested by humans ...

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,338
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 12:49:41 am »
Enzymes arent proteins? He simply stated enzymes arent alive ... "which converts the carbo hydrates & sugars into enzymes" which then help digest fats & proteins, when digested by humans ...

yes, they are, hence my comment

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 12:53:36 am »
You can listen to the interview here, its mentioned near the start

http://www.oneradionetwork2.com/mp3/health/diet/vonderplanitz_aajonus_raw_food_meat_primal_diet_oct_15_09_one.mp3

at 7:40

He makes it quite clear
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 01:04:09 am by roony »

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 01:07:12 am »
"Unheated honey contains and insulin-like substance that is produced by the bees when collecting nectar. That insulin-like substance converts90% of the carbohydrate in nectar into enzymes that help digest, assimilate and utilize protein......The insulin like substance begins detrimental alteration at 93 degrees F (33 C) and is destroyed at 100 degrees F (37 C). Diabetics, hypoglycemics and some infants cannot utilize honey if the insulin-like substance is destroyed. Honey that is heated above 104 degrees F (39 C) is radical sugar that often causes slow deterioration of membranes in the body. Honey heated above 104 degrees F (39 C) may cause toxicity in some infants."


Some hits i came across :

This study seems to support aajonus

Serum glucose levels after 2 hours and the area under the curve for glucose were significantly lower (P = .041) after royal jelly administration.

Substances originating from the pharyngeal glands of the honey bee with insulin-like activity are likely to have caused this effect and may thus be, at least partially, responsible for the lowering impact of honey on blood glucose levels.

The identification of the substances that seem to act even after passage through the human stomach could lead to the development of new concepts in diabetology.


“Honey is an ideal builder of glycogen stores because its sugar is composed of a 1:1 ratio of glucose to fructose. The fructose unlocks the proper enzymes in the liver to allow the glucose to store as glycogen. This can profoundly increase recovery time as well as provide an ideal pre race fuel. Furthermore there has been research done with athletes to ascertain if honey could be used as an ergogenic aid (athletic performance aid). The athletes who consumed protein shakes with honey had more stable blood sugar, glycogen restoration, faster recovery, and more sustained energy than the group who consumed sugar or maltodextrin with protein shakes.” Some good food for thought indeed.

I did a little more research online and found that athletes during the ancient Olympics, ate special foods, such as honey and dried figs, to enhance their performance. Further explanation how honey is able to provide a superior carbohydrate source while maintaining optimal blood sugar levels can be found here."


Another hit :

Honey contains mostly glucose and fructose i.e. sugars which can be metabolized with little insulin secretion, so that honey contains a low glycaemic index similar to fruit and vegetables. This means that the blood glucose level only rises slightly, but giving enough energy for the functioning of the organism. This even has positive effects on the fat metabolism. Surprisingly the acetylcholine contained in honey could be given a special meaning: as a physiological transmitter of the parasympathetic heart muscle cells it would be thought possible that a change in the heartbeat could lead to an economizing of the heart’s effort.

In recent times research for the causes of Alzheimer’s Disease have gained in importance. It is assumed that a deficiency in acetylcholine is the cause. This substance is of added importance for this condition.

In summary honey contains the following: vitamins of the B-group (B1 thiamin, B2 riboflavin, B3 nicotinamide, B5 pantothenic acid, B6 pyridoxine, B9 folic acid), and vitamin C, in addition many minerals such as iron and trace elements. It can understandably be speculated that an improved erythrocyte production may take place. Further minerals are calcium, potassium, chlorine, sodium, copper, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, silicon, sulphur and to a lesser degree, organic acids and an estrogen-like substance which has not yet been further characterized.



On Wounds ....

"One study in India compared the wound healing effects of honey to a conventional treatment (silver sulfadiazene) in 104 first-degree burn patients. After one week of treatment, 91 percent of honey treated burns were infection free compared with only 7 percent receiving the conventional treatment. Finally, a greater percentage of patients' burns were healed more readily in the honey treated group.

Another study examined the wound healing benefits of honey applied topically to patients following Caesarean section and hysterectomy. Compared to the group receiving the standard solution of iodine and alcohol, the honey treated group was infection free in fewer days, healed more cleanly and had a reduced hospital stay."


. One laboratory study of unpasteurized honey samples indicated the majority had antibacterial action against Staphylococcus aureus, a common bacteria found readily in our environment that can cause infections, especially in open wounds.

Other reports indicate honey is effective at inhibiting Escherichia coli and Candida albicans.

Darker honeys, specifically honey from buckwheat flowers, sage and tupelo, contain a greater amount of antioxidants than other honeys, and raw, unprocessed honey contains the widest variety of health-supportive substances.


Damn honey rocks ...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 01:37:29 am by roony »

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 02:58:12 am »
Yes, I've always been of the view that the darker honeycombs had the best/highest nutrients.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Raw Kyle

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,701
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 04:45:08 am »
I'm starting to come heavily on the "AV is a quack" side of things recently. I've read both of his books, and just don't get why he would make so many claims that seem bs when he could be just as successful and seem less quacky by sticking to basics. He says he's done lab research, but you only ever get his "results" in the form of postulates and laws and statistics he writes in his books and says in his lectures.

In order for a sugar to be "turned into" an enzyme, quite a few reactions need to take place. You would need some added nitrogen as well, the building blocks of sugars and enzymes aren't even the same.

Honey may be better on wounds then some other things people traditionally put on them, but what does that say about eating it? Also, going into glycogen stores quickly and easily isn't what many people want in a food.

I think the only reasonable thing to say about honey is that it's better then other sweeteners and sugar products because it's not processed (hopefully, if you get raw unheated stuff) and it has some other naturally occurring nutrients that may help with it's metabolism and maybe even provide some other benefit.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 05:39:21 am »
OK, so what I've got from this so far is that royal jelly and insect haemolynphs (hypopharyngeal glands in the heads of worker bees and other insects) contain insulin-like polypeptides that in the case of bees strangely don't seem to have been named yet. I'll call it ILP for short. In the silkworm Bombyx mori, ILP has been named bombyxin.

At least one study found that ILP lowers the "impact of honey on blood glucose levels" (Royal Jelly Reduces the Serum Glucose Levels in Healthy Subjects, by K Münstedt - 2009, www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/jmf.2008.0289). All of the info I found says that the ILP is in royal jelly, but none of it mentions it being in raw honey. Is there significant amounts of royal jelly in raw honey? None of the sources indicate that the ILP converts all honey glucose into enzymes, so I'm skeptical of that claim. Has anyone here measured their blood sugar before and after eating raw honey to see what the effect is?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Raw Kyle

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,701
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010, 06:34:37 am »
PaleoPhil, when I first went back to college in biology I was hoping to work towards a graduate degree doing research like what you're talking about. Ends up scientists aren't really doing that kind of stuff. Maybe if I was willing to relocate halfway around the world I might be able to do something kinda sorta like it.

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010, 06:45:08 am »
OK, so what I've got from this so far is that royal jelly and insect haemolynphs (hypopharyngeal glands in the heads of worker bees and other insects) contain insulin-like polypeptides that in the case of bees strangely don't seem to have been named yet. I'll call it ILP for short. In the silkworm Bombyx mori, ILP has been named bombyxin.

At least one study found that ILP lowers the "impact of honey on blood glucose levels" (Royal Jelly Reduces the Serum Glucose Levels in Healthy Subjects, by K Münstedt - 2009, www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/jmf.2008.0289). All of the info I found says that the ILP is in royal jelly, but none of it mentions it being in raw honey. Is there significant amounts of royal jelly in raw honey? None of the sources indicate that the ILP converts all honey glucose into enzymes, so I'm skeptical of that claim. Has anyone here measured their blood sugar before and after eating raw honey to see what the effect is?

Well the study i quoted states

"Substances originating from the pharyngeal glands of the honey bee with insulin-like activity are likely to have caused this effect and may thus be, at least partially, responsible for the lowering impact of honey on blood glucose levels."

so its not just royal jelly, but the honey also as a whole, responsible for the glucose lowering effect responsible

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2010, 08:47:51 am »
Well the study i quoted states

"Substances originating from the pharyngeal glands of the honey bee with insulin-like activity are likely to have caused this effect and may thus be, at least partially, responsible for the lowering impact of honey on blood glucose levels."

so its not just royal jelly, but the honey also as a whole, responsible for the glucose lowering effect responsible
Yes, I guess we can infer from that the ILP must be in the honey too, but that doesn't say it converts all the glucose to enzymes, as Aajonus says, though it does seem to suggest that honey has a net effect of lowering, rather than raising, blood glucose. Has anyone here tested this?

There's also this:

Al-Waili NS. Natural honey lowers plasma glucose, C-reactive protein, homocysteine, and blood lipids in healthy, diabetic, and hyperlipidemic subjects: comparison with dextrose and sucrose. J Med Food. 2004 Spring;7(1):100-7. 2004. PMID:15117561.

So what we've got so far is that royal jelly and worker bee heads contain insulin-like polypeptides (ILPs). An unknown amount of ILP-containing royal jelly is apparently in honey. The ILP is hypothesized to account for "the lowering impact of honey on blood glucose levels." Nothing so far about ILP converting honey glucose into enzymes, however.

I'm rooting for raw honey being healthy, because I do enjoy the taste. However, it has had negative effects on me, so assuming the cited studies are correct, then maybe I'm particularly carbohydrate intolerant or something and the ILP doesn't offset this enough in me.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2010, 09:15:16 am »
Unless he states the study he's citing, it can be a pain to find, if you're not familiar with the subject


He also doesnt state the optimum types of variety for the effect he talks about, which makes it even harder to test



I'm still trying to find different varieties of honey combs, which dont make me light headed & my blood sugars to rise

Basically once i've tested as many different types of honey i can get, i'll rule out honey then, im hoping theres some varieties, which work as well as the studies i've found

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2010, 09:30:57 am »
OK, thanks for the very helpful info, roony. I find honey to be one of the more puzzling and fascinating foods of the Paleo era. There are strong opinions about it, both pro and con, but not a lot of research or understanding re: this mysterious food (especially not re: raw honey). Thanks for pointing me to some of it.

I'm also curious as to what the effect of eating grubcomb with the honeycomb is, and whether this provides further benefits. There have been no honey studies at all that included grubcomb, AFAIK. For scientists to draw conclusions that honey is bad even for HGs without studying grubcomb seems premature to me, given that HGs appear to always eat the grubcomb with the honeycomb.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2010, 08:15:36 pm »
Yes, I've always been of the view that the darker honeycombs had the best/highest nutrients.
That's not true. Heather honeycomb isn't dark, but is very nutritious.
http://www.northernharvest.org.uk/produce/images/heather_comb2.jpg
Honey from forest wild fruits is quite light.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2010, 11:45:19 pm »
That's not true. Heather honeycomb isn't dark, but is very nutritious.
http://www.northernharvest.org.uk/produce/images/heather_comb2.jpg
Honey from forest wild fruits is quite light.
  Err I've bought heather honeycomb and it's always been darker-coloured than other honeycombs like borage. Perhaps by dark you mean black.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2010, 12:20:39 am »
Err I've bought heather honeycomb and it's always been darker-coloured than other honeycombs like borage. Perhaps by dark you mean black.
Heather honey is indeed lighter in colour than lime, maple or acacia honey.
It looks like this - http://photos05.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/894/30/42/894304200
Really dark-coloured are:
buckwheat honey - http://a.swistak.pl/000/117/117305_1024.jpg
fir or larch honey - http://www.miod.unl.pl/zdj/spadz_d.jpg
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Why Honey's Good For You - according to aajonus
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2010, 09:25:39 am »
My local apiary owner said he has no plans to sell raw honeycomb, so I'm thinking of buying some from this source...

http://homegrown-colorado.com/?p=91

...unless anyone has a better Internet source to suggest.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk