Author Topic: food poisoning AGAIN  (Read 16257 times)

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Offline RawZi

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 11:50:34 pm »
I mean I get to believe the whole time that this is not healthy - not a balanced diet; no fiber (my Dad).

    You're not a little girl now, you are a sensitive and intelligent woman.  I'm sure he wants the best for you.  No disrespect to him.  You are very probably in a better position to know what foods are working and don't work for you.
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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2010, 12:14:03 am »
I recently began to have a nasty sweet aftertaste in the back of the mouth after drinking my organic Colombian coffee, also from the Maubesse (Timor). Tried a (proven safe) commercial coffee, there's less of that taste.
It lasts for hours.

I like the idea that the taste is caused by ketone bodies, but have no idea why coffee should do this, or what it means.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2010, 09:35:18 am »
I recently began to have a nasty sweet aftertaste in the back of the mouth after drinking my organic Colombian coffee, also from the Maubesse (Timor). Tried a (proven safe) commercial coffee, there's less of that taste.

I like the idea that the taste is caused by ketone bodies, but have no idea why coffee should do this, or what it means.
Yes, coffee tastes sweet to me now also. It used to taste bitter to me before I changed to carnivore. I think it's the combination of not being used to sugars and carbs plus some ketones.


Nicola, you could show your father the video "Fiber Menace" that is on this forum somewhere.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
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Offline invisible

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2010, 11:03:21 am »
Nicola, you could show your father the video "Fiber Menace" that is on this forum somewhere.

Nicola's father isn't the problem. From her posts it's clear even she isn't convinced that RPD is a healthy way of eating.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2010, 11:43:58 am »
She has healthy doubts.  I think that's fine.
I'm ready to change any time when the need arises.
So far omnivore meat + hydrating fruit is working great for me.
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Offline invisible

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2010, 12:16:44 pm »
Hey GS what do you classify as a hydrating fruit? just water content?

alphagruis

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2010, 07:17:39 pm »
She has healthy doubts.  I think that's fine.
I'm ready to change any time when the need arises.
So far omnivore meat + hydrating fruit is working great for me.

I agree. It's ridiculous, childish and pretty pretentious to claim that one of us has found out the optimal ideal diet just because it seems to work and improve our heath after a few months or even years on it.

Things are much much much more complex, unfortunately.

So far raw omnivore fatty meat+ fish+ shellfish+ eggs +  fruit + leafy veggies is working great for me too. Yet I would certainly not claim that this is the only healthy diet for homo sapiens....

Offline Nicola

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2010, 09:20:12 pm »
Nicola's father isn't the problem. From her posts it's clear even she isn't convinced that RPD is a healthy way of eating.

I need to have doubts; we always need to question life!

My father would never read a book on diet - he knows it all better and can live with it; most people can - my brother eats what he thinks is food, does his job (his got a good job) in the way he feels is ideal...they don't have an ED - that's only for people fishing around in the internet.

So let's be correct - we are all looking for peace of mind!

I have to learn to deal with my own thoughts - is raw paleo the answer? If I ask my father or brother; NO!

Nicola

Offline razmatazz

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2010, 04:55:26 am »
Just posting an update, went to the doc (different doc from the last one who diagnosed a UTI)  and explained all my symptoms, he said it could be kidney stones (you were right lex!). I've got a blood test and urine test next week, and getting an ultrasound scan. Still have to get the blood results from the other doc from the last time this happened.
Hopefully i will get to the bottom of this soon...my symptoms have eased alot, i can get by with day to day life though there is still dull pain on my left and back, and my stomach keeps making gurgling sounds, so still not 100% back on my feet :(. Eating seems to help a bit now as well (whereas before it seemed to worsen it). I've just been eating raw lamb chops and a bit of cooked vegetables (eg mushrooms and butternut squash)

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2010, 06:09:11 am »
I'm guessing that summer squash are less toxic than butternut squash, because summer squash can be eaten raw (though you can steam or saute them if you must).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2010, 08:28:50 am »
.... though there is still dull pain on my left and back, ...

Glad you went for a second opinion.  The statement above leads me to suspect that you might have a kidney infection as well.  Renal stones usually don't cause a dull ache unless you have a very large one (some get to the size of golf balls).  If you lightly hit your lower back with your fist you will feel pain on the side where there is infection.  My recommendation is not to fool around with this.  If you have an infection then take antibiotics.  A kidney infection, if it is not taken care of, could destroy the kidney.

Lex

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2010, 08:32:43 am »
Hey GS what do you classify as a hydrating fruit? just water content?

If it feels hydrating and quenches thirst for long periods of time, it is hydrating:

- watermelons
- melons
- coconuts
- papayas
- avocados

When nothing else is available, I get cold water and squeeze calamansi / lemon in it and wait for a minute or two then drink.
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Offline miles

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2010, 10:50:42 am »
One thing I find difficult here is that lots of people seem to go raw paleo, before just going paleo, so they seem to attribute the +'s to rawpaleo, when the things they notice they'd get on cooked meat paleo too(ofc, rawpaleo, if done right probably has the potential to be much better than cooked but most people probably wouldn't notice the differences attributed to the meat being raw unless they'd already been for a while on cooked meat). So either they think 'You win some you lose some' and accept the rough with the smooth, losing their problems from grain/legume/dairy/salt intolerances and replacing them with others.. Or they think to go back to their SMD... One reason why it's hard for me to take info from here.

People can't think, and give me balanced answers/responses about things to do with rawpaleo/raw meat, when they only have the SMD to compare it to. They'll come up with all sorts of reasons in their head as to why they have the negative effects, because surely it must be good with the positives they've also experienced... This will cause a sort of defensiveness too.

I am quite confident that rawpaleo, probably almost all meat, with VLC is much better than to have cooked meat. However, if someone doesn't take the step of first going with cooked meat(unless they are 'lucky' enough to get it right straight away) then they will not be able to identify what is due to raw and what is due to more generally 'paleo'. Severe problems being caused from eating the wrong raw animal food, they won't take note of, since to them it's minor compared to what they had with the SMD.

One of the key principles of paleo anyway, is to only eat food which in its' natural state, could be eaten raw. A cashew(nut), for example, although 'fine'(on the face of things) to eat raw in abundance from a plastic packet, would be virtually impossible to obtain edibly, in its' natural state(therefore it should not be assumed that we are suitably adapted to handle all its' constituents). Conversely, meat, in its' most natural state would be perfectly edible raw. However, if there are less-natural methods of raising, 'extracting', carving, storing, delivering etc of the meat, it may not be safe to eat raw; therefore you'd cook it to allow for anything that could've gone wrong. The closer you are to eating an animal which has grown up and lived in an environment which it evolved naturally over a lengthy period of time to exist in, and would've been available to humans as prey, and the closer your methods of killing it and eating it are to how a 'wild-human' would've done it, the less likely anything could go wrong, and the less need there may be for compensatory measures(e.g. cooking).

Is cooking bad? I would say almost certainly, yes. Can some meat be worse to have raw than cooked? Even that I do not know. However, are there things that many raw-meat eaters here do, regards to their consumption of raw meat, which, if they'd first tried cooked, they'd realise weren't right. Probably yes.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 11:26:50 am by miles »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2010, 12:10:23 pm »
Hmmm..... Miles,

I did raw Paleo for 4 or so months first.  (2008)

Then I experimented with cooked pork meat for a month.  

I had to end my experiment because I felt bad and started having pimples.  

So I returned to raw paleo.

Does this make sense?

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Offline lex_rooker

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2010, 12:11:38 pm »
Miles,
I went lightly cooked paleo first, then meat only (cooked med rare as that is the way I used to like my meat) as an experiment after reading Steffannson's articles in Harper's linked at the Yahoo RVAF Group, and finally stopped cooking the meat just on the principle that it shouldn't be necessary from an evolutionary point of view.

The honest truth is, I believe that I got 95%+ of the health benefits just by converting from SAD (high in grains and dairy), to lightly cooked Paleo (eating mostly meat but also a salad every day and occasionally a piece of fruit).  I now perfer my meat raw (or extra rare when it must be cooked as when eating out), so that is the way I will probably continue to eat it.  I may add a small salad or a bit of fruit to my diet in the future as I don't think there is any magic in being totally ZC.  I also don't think that there is a problem lightly cooking most foods as long as they are foods we evolved to eat.  Eating inappropriate foods is our bigest problem.  Get rid of those and you're likely to resolve a whole host of health issues.  Eating most foods raw would just be adding a bit of icing to the cake (so to speak ;)) - probably not critical for most people, but the crowning glory for the purists among us.

The bottom line is that lightly cooked paleo seems to be no better or worse than raw paleo (or ZC for that matter).  At least that has been my experience.

Lex


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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2010, 03:13:39 pm »
if there are less-natural methods of raising, 'extracting', carving, storing, delivering etc of the meat, it may not be safe to eat raw; therefore you'd cook it to allow for anything that could've gone wrong.

There is a long list on this website of toxins created when meat is cooked; it's also said that nutrients are damaged by cooking so as to be less bio-available which might eventually cause deficiency disease. Cooking is no remedy.

However, I can  imagine a subtle poison created by the new world order/evil creeps of your choice and added to meat  which can only be neutralized by cooking.
Maybe this is why raw meat dried for only three hours tastes so much better than fresh.

;)

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2010, 04:40:04 pm »
Maybe my fresh raw beef just killed at 12 midnight and eaten at 12 noon just tastes better than yours....  :D

I just had fresh market raw beef for lunch and it was deeelicious.

Seriously, it probably depends on the source, the way it was packed, the breed of the animal.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2010, 05:57:15 pm »
I tried cooked palaeo before trying rawpalaeo, and it was an absolute disaster. It turned out that I had severe reactions to any cooked animal foods but not their raw equivalent. I suspect that for most people it's the same, that they find the raw component to be more important than the palaeo component. For example, a lot of people have reported quickly becoming  fertile after years of infertility, simply by switching to raw dairy, one doesn't come across that kind of thing with cooked-palaeo to the same extent; conversely, while cooked-palaeodiets have  beneficial effects on a few auto-immune diseases of the modern age, those effects are often quite limited in scope.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 05:21:44 pm by TylerDurden »
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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2010, 12:21:08 am »
Maybe my fresh raw beef just killed at 12 midnight and eaten at 12 noon just tastes better than yours....  :D

I just had fresh market raw beef for lunch and it was deeelicious.

Seriously, it probably depends on the source, the way it was packed, the breed of the animal.

I have not seen a description of what happens between farm and freezer, but there have been stories about "processing", both nuclear and chemical. Depends on the law where one lives.

Offline djr_81

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2010, 02:31:12 am »
I spent a few weeks eating cooked paleo on my way to eating raw paleo. I did notice some of the benefits eating cooked paleo but I had a voracious appetite. Eating the meat raw I'll eat less than half the volume I needed to when it was cooked and I feel better for it (both lighter and healthier). This was enough to convince me that this is a healthier way for me to eat. Less impact on my digestion allows my body to heal as best it can.
FWIW I notice much the same difference in satiation between fresh raw meat/fat and previously frozen raw meat/fat. Something is damaged at the molecular level and if I want to gain the most I can from the food it needs to be fresh and raw. Fat is especially noticeable in this regard (some previously frozen fat is just nasty compared to the fresh equivalent).
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Offline ys

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2010, 06:50:43 am »
Quote
The symptoms are always the same - i wake up in the morning with a sharp pain on my right or left abdomen, extending round to my lower back.

Last night I woke up with nasty needle-like pain all around my stomach.  I suffered for 2 hours and then puked my guts out until there was nothing left to puke.

The meat I ate (Slankers) was thawed in the morning and I ate it about 6h later.  When I puked I saw chunks of meat pretty well chewed up but not well digested.  I ate the same meat in the morning while it was still half frozen and did not have any issues with it.

Usually I digest meat pretty quick but this time my stomach did not like it all.  I'm positive it was stomach related and not any kind of stones because stomach was growling pretty bad and pain slowly went away after I emptied my stomach.

I never had this before while eating raw meat.
So note to self - eat meat right away after it gets thawed or half-thawed.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2010, 10:57:16 am »
I did cooked Paleo for about 4 years, then VLC mostly-cooked Paleo and gradually moved to mostly-raw carnivore (just low-heating tallow to 130F now and sometimes eating the suet and marrow raw, trying to get more accustomed to it). My biggest benefits seemed to come from eliminating the following foods, roughly in order of importance, with the most important first:

gluten
carbs
dairy
legumes (soy, peanuts, etc.)
grain and legume fats
nightshades (peppers, tomatoes, etc.) and vegetables not edible raw
acidic foods
vegetables edible raw
seed and other plant fats
cooking and processing (canning, salting, preservatives, etc.)
nuts, seeds
berries
spring greens

I seem to get more benefit from raw than Lex but much less than Tyler, so between the three of us you get somewhat of a spectrum of experience. I would guess that not cooking adds another 6-10 percent health benefit for me. I don't get sick when I eat cooked meats/fish and I don't like the taste of raw more than lightly cooked except for ground red meat and I still prefer the taste of cooked fish to raw, but I notice that I don't get the same feeling of well being from cooked meats/fish/fat as I do from rare grassfed/wild. I also don't sleep quite as well or feel quite as perky and happy overall. It's not very scientific, but it's significant enough for me that it's very uplifting.

I also notice that I burp much more if I raise the heating temp on my tallow from 130 to 190 degrees Farenheit. At the Paleofood forum I think I told William, Tyler and everyone in general that I didn't see a need for me personally to eat raw, though I was openminded about it, but I eventually tried it and found that it did provide me with significant benefits.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 11:02:34 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Stephanie07

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Re: food poisoning AGAIN
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2010, 02:37:14 pm »
Food poisoning symptoms include vomiting right? as well as lose bowel movement well these are the symptoms my sister had when she had experienced food poison.
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