Author Topic: Frothy and bubbly urine  (Read 29370 times)

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Offline carnivorous

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Frothy and bubbly urine
« on: April 29, 2010, 06:53:25 am »
Any thoughts on what this means?  The common explanation online is mild to complete kidney failure leading to whole proteins being excreted.  I assumed this was true, but experienced extremely frothy urine 2 weeks into a fat fast.

I've seen this reported by several on carnivore diets, though it is not exclusive to them...

Offline djr_81

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 07:43:22 am »
I notice a dramatic increase in froth/bubbles in the urine following meals with large amounts of meat (the most recent occurrence was yesterday where I had 2 1/2 pounds of brisket throughout the day with my dinner consisting of over a pound and a half) but it generally lasts two days at the most.
FWIW I do not have the same issues on days I'm eating high fat and moderate protein.
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Offline ys

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 09:28:43 am »
the only way to know for sure is to take it to the lab.

otherwise we can all speculate until infinity.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 09:37:52 am »
I can tell you that I have never noticed frothy or bubbly urine eating a diet largely made up of raw meat.

Offline KD

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 09:59:30 am »
I can tell you that I have never noticed frothy or bubbly urine eating a diet largely made up of raw meat.


hmm, you mean its totally clear or do you mean especially so?

---


I've noticed mine has cleared up quite a bit, without much net change in quantity/percentage other than the few days of fasting followed by light eating. I guess we'll see in a few weeks if it comes back full force at this percentage.

I got labs done on my kidneys and my BUN was fairly low, esp for a 'high protein' diet and the mild dehydration I was experiencing at the time. The increased hydration has helped with the bubbles also of course, but are still present.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 04:23:35 pm »
I can tell you that I have never noticed frothy or bubbly urine eating a diet largely made up of raw meat.
  Same here.
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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 06:27:07 pm »
I noticed frothy and bubbly urine when I did that crazy high raw protein experiment.
I was gunning for 1kg of meat a day.
Too much.
I settled for 600 grams of meat a day and no more bubbly urine.

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Offline RawZi

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 07:13:06 pm »
    I got frothy urine during a water fast.  I think it may have been damaging my kidneys.  

    My son got frothy urine I think it was when the doctors gave him testosterone.  He also got swollen that time.  I don't think he ever got swollen otherwise.  I think it was maybe some failure of the kidney.

    Neither one of us ever got it from meat.  He vomited terribly after a taste of cooked meat.  I normally don't eat a lot of (raw) meat.  2 1/2 would be a lot for me.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2010, 01:32:31 pm »
too much protein
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 10:03:24 am »
I figured my increased urinary bubbling on RPD was due to protein, though when I've tested using Multistix the results have come up negative for protein each time, except once when it was trace. Maybe it takes only trace or even unmeasurable amounts of protein to cause bubbling? If anyone's concerned about it they can buy the Multistix or get it tested at their physician's office.
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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 05:11:18 pm »
Frothy urine in principle implies merely the presence of substances or molecules with detergent properties and by no means necessarily the presence of proteins. These substances act like soap and reduce the surface tension of the liquid they are dissolved in.

A very probable candidate are bile salts produced normaly by the liver in highly regulated quantities and excreted because in excess in blood via the kidney for various reasons such as some diseases or metabolic trouble or specific conditions, liver disease or disfunction etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid 


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 11:07:28 pm »
I think I'm getting a better handle on this puzzle. I think the medical community views frequently very bubbly urine as abnormal because the average they are comparing to is the SAD, which contains less meat/fish protein than our diets tend to contain. I didn't think it was a major problem in my case and attributed it to my diet that is relatively high in meat/fish protein, plus heavy water intake in combination with mild dehydration, but I couldn't find sources to support this until now (see below).

The most concerning thing in my case is that even with high intake of water I continue to have mild dehydration, although it is reduced, so I'm not hugely concerned. I'm also prone to constipation and dry skin, which also suggest dehydration as one possible element. I'm thinking that I may have a combination of deficient signals to consume liquids plus deficient ability to absorb water. I'm not sure what could be causing this. I sweat less than most people, so excess sweating is not an issue. Apparently water goes through me and into my urine to an excessive extent, instead of being properly absorbed.

Thin skin and diabetes have also been suggested (http://www.righthealth.com/topic/Dehydration/Causes). I do have thin skin. I don't have diabetes, but I do have a history of symptoms that have been connected to insulin resistance and hypoglycemia.

The three most common factors in foamy urine appear to be...

1. mucoproteins from diets high in meat/fish protein or gluten protein in people with gluten intolerance (in the former case it's apparently normal, in the latter case it's a problem because the partially undigested gluten proteins can trigger the immune system and cause other problems)
2. concentration of the urine that occurs with the first urination of the day or dehydration
3. forcefulness of the urine flow, which mixes more air with whatever protein is present to create bubbles (however, I've had forceful flow of high-volume urine without much in the way of bubbles, so this factor is not sufficient by itself)

So the first urine of the day after a heavy protein meal the night before will tend to produce rather foamy urine, which I find to be the case for me.

Gallbladder and kidney issues are rarer but should be checked for if the urine is constantly foamy throughout the day.


Mucoproteins in the urine
http://www.diagnose-me.com/questionnaire/Q158.html
This article says "If the urine is extremely foamy and continues all the time, there may be a problem with bile salts or the gallbladder." In my case the foam is not always present, so I doubt this applies to me. My guess is that mucoproteins and forcefulness of flow are more common causes.


Concentration of the Urine and Dehydration
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6530271

"When people eat large amounts of meat and fish, the large quantity of mucoproteins ingested because of this are not fully broken down by the body, and pass into the urine through the kidneys. This is not a sign of kidney damage neccessarily, everyone has foamy urine now and then.

It will be more pronounced when you are dehydrated or when your urine is more concentrated, such as first thing in the morning. It occurs because the proteins react with the air as they pass into the toilet, and then form bubbles in the water.

Persistent foamy urine should be a sign to cut back on your protein intake. Things to also get checked for are gall bladder problems, glomulonephritis and nephrotic syndrome, though the last two are generally present with blood in the urine also.

Get your urine checked by a doctor anyway, to check for white blood cells, glucose and abnormal levels of proteins as well as for the presence of red blood cells."


Forcefulness of the urine flow
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/bubbles-in-urine.html
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline King Salmon

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Re: Frothy and bubbly urine
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 04:52:55 pm »
Well,for men anyway,frothy/whitish urine could be from "excess" semen which is generated by the kidneys and stored in the testes.When there is no more "storage" space or too much is accumulated,it comes out in urination.Kind of like an overflow.This is from an Asian medicine perspective.
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