Author Topic: raw (femented?) fish oil  (Read 14729 times)

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Offline miles

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Re: raw (femented?) fish oil
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2010, 09:26:56 pm »
There's 'lingual lipase' secreted in the mouth.
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Offline Michael

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Re: raw (femented?) fish oil
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2010, 10:46:13 pm »
I consider myself enlightened!   :)  Thanks miles.

I've just briefly Googled 'lingual lipase' and it does indeed appear to be secreted from glands around the tongue for the purpose of breaking down triglycerides to diglycerides and free fatty acids.  In essence, a critical initial stage in fat digestion!

I must admit that I was completely unaware of this but will certainly read up further now on this subject.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: raw (femented?) fish oil
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2010, 07:31:49 am »
Bingo! Thanks Miles and Michael. Just what I was looking for.

Here's some fascinating stuff I found on lingual lipase:

Lingual Lipase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingual_lipase

“In the uterus, the fetus is dependent on a high-carbohydrate diet. After birth, fat in milk or a milk substitute becomes the major source of nutrition. Absorptive rates of dietary fat are much lower in neonates than in adults, 65-80% as compared to >95% respectively, which can be attributed to low pancreatic lipase activity. (1 Hamosh M, Scow RO (January 1973). "Lingual lipase and its role in the digestion of dietary lipid". J. Clin. Invest. 52 (1): 88 – 95. doi:10.1172/JCI107177. PMID 4682389) Furthermore, milk fat is not a good substrate for pancreatic lipase. This fact, in combination with the bile salt deficiency and low pH throughout the gastrointestinal tract of the neonate, demands that lingual lipase be the main enzyme catalyzing the hydrolysis of dietary fat. This enzyme activity has been seen as early as 26 weeks gestational age, with ability to hydrolyze dietary fats variable according to digestive tract maturity.(1)”


Human distribution of lingual lipase within the body is more like that of other primates and carnivores than of plant-heavy omnivores and ruminants:

From Fat digestion and absorption, By Armand B. Christophe, Stephanie DeVriese, p. 1:
“(L)ingual lipase is present in rodents and ruminants who have no gastric lipase, whereas carnivores, lagomorphs, and primates, including humans, have predominantly gastric lipase.”


Oral lingual lipase continues to work in the stomach of rats:

Lingual Lipase and Its Role in the Digestion of Dietary Lipid
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC302230/?tool=pmcentrez

(emphasis mine)

Abstract
“The serous glands of rat tongue were found to contain a potent lipolytic enzyme which hydrolyzed triglyceride to mostly diglyceride and free fatty acids (FFA) at pH 4.5-5.4. Homogenates of lingual serous glands from adult rats hydrolyzed 40-70 mmol of triglyceride/g per h. The soft palate, anterior oral pharyngeal wall, and lateral oral pharyngeal glands also contained the activity, but at a much lower level. The lipolytic activity was also found in saliva collected through an esophageal cannula and in stomach contents of rats fed a fat-rich meal. The stomach contained very little activity, however, when saliva was excluded. Lipolytic activity was not found in the stomach wall or in the parotid, submandibular, and sublingual glands. The findings suggest that the lingual serous glands secrete a lipase which catalyzes in the stomach the conversion of triglyceride to partial glycerides and FFA. It is proposed that this reaction is the first step in the digestion of dietary lipid.”


Combining knowledge of lingual (salivary) lipase with the below report that a-amylase-binding bacteria in plaque are aided by salivary amylase in binding dietary starch to teeth and in promoting dental caries calls into question the claims that the existence of salivary amylase proves that humans are omnivores or herbivores rather than carnivores. The salivary evidence actually seems to point more toward carnivory/faunivory than omnivory/herbivory.

From: Salivary a-Amylase: Role in Dental Plaque and Caries Formation
Critical Reviews in Oral Biology and Medicine, 4(3/4):301-307 (1993)
http://cro.sagepub.com/content/4/3/301.full.pdf+html
(emphasis mine)

"In summary, the available evidence from in vitro, animal, and human studies implicates dietary starch as a cariogenic substrate. a-Amylase bound on the surface of plaque bacteria may promote the processing of dietary starch. To obtain a more meaningful picture of the role of starch and a-amylase in the caries process, the relationships between a-amylase, a-amylase-binding bacteria in plaque, and starch intake should be assessed in caries active and inactive subjects. Bacterial plaques having high levels of a-amylase-binding bacteria may concentrate salivary a-amylase within the plaque matrix to provide more glucose from dietary starch in close proximity to the tooth surface. Such plaques would likely be more cariogenic in the presence of starch-containing foods than plaques having low numbers of a-amylase-binding bacteria. "

Diglyceride
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“A diglyceride, or a diacylglycerol (DAG), is a glyceride consisting of two fatty acid chains covalently bonded to a glycerol molecule through ester linkages.”

Vegetarian Frequently Asked Questions - Ingredients
www.ivu.org/faq/ingredients.html
“Mono- and diglycerides are esters of edible fat-forming acids usually of the sweet alcohol glycerin. ...”

Glycerol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol
“Glycerol is sweet-tasting and of low toxicity.”
Since diglycerides contain sweet glycerol molecules (see Staying healthy with nutrition: the complete guide to diet and nutritional, By Elson M. Haas, p. 452), I wonder if the breakdown of hydrolyzed triglyceride by lingual lipase into mostly diglyceride and free fatty acids (FFA) (and possibly partially into glycerol and fatty acids?) could explain why suet tastes mildly sweet to me when I chew it extensively.


Still more evidence that humans are more fat-oriented than starch-oriented is this report suggesting that diglyceride-rich foods may promote weight loss in humans:

Diglyceride-Rich Foods May Promote Weight Loss
http://bastyrcenter.org/content/view/448/
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 07:52:59 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Michael

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Re: raw (femented?) fish oil
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2010, 06:25:28 am »
Quote
Bingo! Thanks Miles and Michael. Just what I was looking for.

Glad you were able to benefit from my ignorance and questioning Phil!  :)

Lots of info to work our way through there, thanks.  I hereby declare you the resident forum researcher!  :)  Nice work.

BTW, I've now finally acquired a suitable farrier's file (known here as a rasp).  It certainly wasn't cheap but seems to do the job on the beef and lamb bones I've tried it on so far.  It seems to take a while filing to get any worthwhile quantity but I intend to pursue with this new venture and have taken a teaspoon of raw bone filings for each of the last couple of days.  I'm also starting to up my intake of liver, CLO and sunshine and I have some nightshade-free low carb kimchi fermenting away in my crock pot.  I hope to report back to the forum with any outcomes over the coming months.

1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline raw-al

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Re: raw (femented?) fish oil
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2010, 09:30:52 pm »
Michael,
It just occurred to me that various woodworking tools could be pressed into service to reduce bone to meal. The planer etc. come to mind. I'll keep you posted.
Cheers
Al

Offline Michael

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Re: raw (femented?) fish oil
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2010, 03:56:18 am »
Good suggestion raw-al.  I'm a woodworking enthusiast myself!  For that reason, I'll let you experiment with that line of inquiry as I wouldn't want to put any of my prized razor sharp planes anywhere near any bones!  :)  But, it's probably a very reasonable suggestion and I could imagine it working beautifully.

I look forward to an update!

BTW, a word of warning to anyone intending on trying van's farrier rasp techniques for homemade bone meal:

- Firstly, DO NOT hold the blade with your hand whilst screwing on the separately purchased handle.  I foolishly did this and it absolutely shredded my hand!!  I didn't even notice until a few minutes later when blood was streaming everywhere!  So, be careful.
- Secondly, DO NOT try washing the rasp after use!  Please follow van's advice and invest in a wire brush for 'dry' cleaning after each use.  I ignored this.  My partner (I'll blame her!) ;) washed it up and left it sitting in a pool of water.  Needless to say, my new £30 farrier rasp soon took on a wonderful burnt copper hue!!  It took a long time to remove the acquired surface rust and restore it with my, newly purchased, wire brush!

1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

 

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