Author Topic: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?  (Read 10200 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« on: July 09, 2010, 01:09:24 pm »
Ive been thinkin bout this for a while, and clearly dogs and cats get cancer, but they are house pets and fed pet food, not real food. Do animals in the wild get cancer or disease for that matter? If so, how frequent is it? Please guys give me some feedback on this, I'm writing a paper about it.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 02:08:29 pm »
They probably do.
It's not a perfect world.
Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

Offline kurite

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,270
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 02:46:47 pm »
I believe they do but now even close to humans in modern society.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

Offline Josh

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 865
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 03:08:42 pm »
You have to think what are the chances they'll live long enough to get cancer in the wild, when there's so many other ways to die.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,042
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2010, 04:07:47 pm »
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/6_1Paleopathology%20Disease%20in%20the%20Past.htm
Quote
(6) Various cancers are identifiable in the skeleton. Primary bone cancer is rare, but the skeleton is a common site for the secondary spread of cancerous growth from other tissues. Studies of rates of bone cancers in prehistoric populations suggest that they are extremely rare--even when the relative scarcity of elderly people is taken into account.

I read somewhere that a few traces of cancers could be found on dinosaurs skeletons, but it seems to have been exceptional, perhaps affecting one individual out of a thousand. Traces of cancer on human bones have exploded after the neolithic and in recent history.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline ys

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,323
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 08:58:52 pm »
Look up Tasmanian Devil.  Numerous reports of cancer.

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 11:24:11 pm »
IMO cancer arises in a species when an abandonment of natural diet or environment changes occur. I know many Alegators in Florida get cancer, and male alligators and crocks penises turn into uterus's because of the amount of plastic (estrogen) floating around in their water. This is a sad time. Estrogen dominance = death. The same thing is happening to fish all over the world. However, this is not to say that they would naturally have cancer without the interference of man. As for finding cancer in fossils, just how accurate is this. Also, Ive been reading about cancer, and it is natural to have it come and go in a lifetime without even noticing. AV said even 60% of people on a cooked diet would heal as long as they didnt get treated with cancer drugs or chemo. It seems quite possible that the dinosaurs could have been gong through a natural cancer process.

Check this video for more of what I just touched on. Many of this info as of now is just speculation, but many of it is factual as well.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/eva_vertes_looks_to_the_future_of_medicine.html
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 11:25:42 pm »
The funny thing is practically no one is asking the questions of why dont animals get cancer. We only look at the sick and not the healthy.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2010, 10:39:42 am »
I don't know about cancer in wild animals other than when they live in heavily polluted habitats, but I've posted in this forum about one or more of dental caries, hairloss, infertility, poor sex drive, poor vision, and premie-like offspring among some wild animals (such as giant pandas and frugivorous primates). You might also want to check out Wild Health by Cindy Engel. It talks about how wild animals treat themselves with spiky leaves, medicinal herbs, mineral-rich clays, etc., although acute illness and temporary nutritional deficiencies are more common than chronic illnesses and disorders in the wild, unsurprisingly. Fatty acid deficiencies apparently can even lead to extreme behaviors among wild animals, such as eating of the brain of an infant of the same species.

It's an open question, however, whether the chronic diseases in the wild are inherent to the species or due to negative changes within the last 10,000 years or so as humans have increasingly wiped out their foods and habitats. I suspect that it's a combination.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Ioanna

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,338
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2010, 10:51:13 am »
probably not the answer you're looking for, but i have a friend who fed his dog all raw farm stuff.  she wasn't herself for the final week or so, but one day just curled up on her blanket...   

the vet could not find anything wrong her, but kept in communication with my friend on how she was doing.  he was amazed that she just died so naturally, said this is so rare these days. 


Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 11:42:56 am »
Man, I feel that this topic is a book in itself. It could be called, "why cancer is only a modern trouble". The writer could have specific examples of how animals never got cancer until man intervened with their habitats and food, therefore cancer can be controlled by us if it was caused by us. IDK about you guys, but we all should be doing stuff to promote this diet. I myself am in the process of writing a book.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2010, 12:42:06 pm »
Interesting, Wonder Woman, are you saying that the dog's death was a more natural and peaceful one than dog's fed kibble? Did you know that Prof. Lindeberg has reported on the same phenomenon among humans in Kitava who eat a Paleo-type diet? He even reported that they can sense when death is coming and seem relaxed about it.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline kurite

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,270
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2010, 02:17:27 pm »
Pioneer Ive decided that after about a year of being on a raw paleo diet im going to start making youtube videos of it, explanations, results etc.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2010, 12:29:22 am »
Yes kurite, we all need to spread our info. Other RPD people see it as a bad thing and that it will raise the costs of meat and organ meat, and it will also never be able to populate the globe. Now I know we wont be there for a long ass time, but I think that this diet can easily be possible for every human. Agriculture and growing vegetables is not a problem, we have the space for that, and the animal issue can be a little trickier, but like Ive said before, not everyone has to have a diet high in meat as the closer one gets to the equator, generally the more vegetation they consume. It also seems to be in their genetics as well. The part I cant stand the most is the thought of us knowing all this knowledge, having to walk by and observe sick, suffering, cancer, diseased people and not doing a thing about it. I dont know about all of you, but I'm not just going to sit back on my ass while the rest of the world goes to hell.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2010, 12:31:01 am »
pleas let us know when your video(s) are up. :D
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline kurite

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,270
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2010, 02:37:55 am »
Okay but Ive only been raw paleo for about 3 months so it will be about 9 months until I start.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2010, 08:02:56 am »
Look up Tasmanian Devil.  Numerous reports of cancer.

Not the one on "Bugs Bunny" I hope  ;D
Cheers
Al

Offline Wolf

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Female
  • Grawr.
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2010, 01:20:50 pm »
Another thing I've always wondered is why you never see animals with acne..
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline kurite

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,270
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2010, 05:45:07 pm »
My family refuses to let my dogs eat raw meat and the male has had some acne on his belly.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

Offline miles

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,904
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2010, 07:56:48 pm »
I think acne's closely related to an unhealthy liver.
5-10% off your first purchase at http://www.iherb.com/ with dicount code: KIS978

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2010, 10:49:00 pm »
I think acne's closely related to an unhealthy liver.

Why do you think that? Is it because the liver detoxes and when it is unhealthy your body cant detox and it shows on your skin? I always knew it was caused by some sort of inflammation both within the body and on the skin. Not enough bacteria on the skin is a big no no. With all the chlorine, soaps and shampoos people use, they kill the acidophilous on people's skin. As science is learning, the skin is the body's 1st immune system, not the white blood cells. White blood cells should be a last resort. I speculate that without the bacteria on the skin, the skin will become inflamed causing acne. I have heard of the liver link before though. Do you know any more about this?
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline Wolf

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Female
  • Grawr.
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 05:40:17 pm »
I think there are many different causes for acne, or else one solution would work for everyone.. but it doesn't. 
That interesting though, I have never seen an animal with acne before, are you sure what was on your dog's belly is actually acne and not perhaps something else?  I've never met a dog on a raw meat diet, but I've also never met a dog with acne, so I don't see how those two things could be linked..

Also, I have never tried any special cleanses or washes or medicines to treat my acne, because I don't want to become reliant on such things and end up to where if I ever stop using them, it comes back.  However, recently I have become more desperate to get rid of it, and began washing my face everyday with alcohol, which I have heard helps to get rid of it.  I also began washing my face more regularly (usually with plain water and/or alcohol) as well as exfoliating whenever I shower(with my regular bodywash).  It helped me a little bit, but hardly enough for it to be noticeable.

I just got back from vacation with family though, where we were out of state and the only way for me to eat was out at restaurants with everyone, but I did manage to avoid eating anything too un-paleo, though not as much raw.  For about 3 days, I mostly just ate as rare as i could get steak(and lots of it, yummy, but my dad started to complain though and saying that too much red meat is bad for me and that i would get sick from it being undercooked.), sunnyside-up eggs(so the yolks would at least be partially raw), and fruit(and drank only water, oh and whole milk once), though once I did eat some fried potato.. hash browns, I think, but they were little cubes?  and another time I had to get a hamburger from fatburger, and I ate a pound of thoroughly cooked hamburger meat with some melted cheese on it, but I at least took off the bun.. but it seems that my acne is starting to go away a bit, I'm thinking that breads/pasta/grains are possibly the main cause of my acne since the hash brown things and cooked hamburger meat and cheese or milk don't seem to have made things worse but I've been avoiding anything with flour in it, so I am going to continue avoiding bread and stuff and hope that my acne does clear up..
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 10:16:05 pm »
Stick with it. I notice that if I deviate from the diet, I see acne pretty fast, but as soon as I go back to raw, it disappears.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline Wolf

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
  • Gender: Female
  • Grawr.
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2010, 08:36:53 am »
I'm going to stick with it as long as I can and hope my acne does clear up, and if it does then I'm going to try experimenting a bit by eating different types of food (probably try different types of cooked meats or dairy mostly) and seeing if they make me break out at all, so then I can try to figure out exactly what it is that makes me break out.  I'm hoping it's just bread/flour/grains and such, because I've always hated bread and stuff and this will also give me an excuse to give people so i can refuse from eating it, lol.
Hi, I'm 32, around 5'4" and ~124lb, no real significant health problems other than hyperventilating when running/exercising (that my doc said was because of the smog/asthma), fatigue, and really bad acne.
I'd preferably be a carnivore/very low carb, but I have had a very hard time finding grass-fed or even organic fats, organs, and marrow. I consume raw dairy, but I do not eat much vegetables.. however, I do love fruit.
I live with my dad, so I also have to sneak any raw meat eating.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: do animals get cancer, do they even get disease?
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2010, 10:11:36 am »
...I'm going to try experimenting a bit by eating different types of food (probably try different types of cooked meats or dairy mostly) and seeing if they make me break out at all, so then I can try to figure out exactly what it is that makes me break out.  ....
That's what I did, and I found that meat/fat/organs/water gave me the least acne and taking some zinc every two or three days got rid of the last small remnant. Now I just take a tiny dose of a Dr. Ron's multivitamin/mineral (I take it mainly for the potassium to avoid toe cramps, but it also contains a small amount of zinc) every day or two and never see a single zit as long as I don't eat modern foods, fruit, honey or starchy veg. Warning: milk is linked to acne.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk